Working as a mental health nurse

[Lara40]

Hi all. Hoping to move over to WA on a 189 and work as a community mental health nurse. Can anyone advise me what working as a mental health nurse is like in OZ especially as a community nurse? Is it flexible and can you do some home working around visits? How big are the case loads? Work/life balance etc. 

[Blue Flu]

A very big business in WA with so much now around mental health. There should not be a problem finding work. Not sure just what you mean by home working?? (Lots are doing it but not strictly above board. ) With such a massive drug problem (more directed towards mental  heath than the legal system these days , along with a high incidence of young people experiencing difficulty, you won't be bored. I worked in crisis care for a time and found it generally okay apart from elements of the system in place and internal politics. I had an Irish friend, doing community work and she preferred it to a hospital setting , but she moved on several years ago. Others may be in a position to give a more recent insight into how working conditions are.  

[ali]

2 hours ago, Lara40 said:

Hi all. Hoping to move over to WA on a 189 and work as a community mental health nurse. Can anyone advise me what working as a mental health nurse is like in OZ especially as a community nurse? Is it flexible and can you do some home working around visits? How big are the case loads? Work/life balance etc. 

I can only speak for the clinic I work at and you don't work from home - happy for you to drop me a line - I'm the team leader for a community and EEP team.

 

[RubyMonday]

Quote

On 09/06/2023 at 08:43, Lara40 said:

Hi all. Hoping to move over to WA on a 189 and work as a community mental health nurse. Can anyone advise me what working as a mental health nurse is like in OZ especially as a community nurse? Is it flexible and can you do some home working around visits? How big are the case loads? Work/life balance etc. 

 

Ditto, just waiting on my 189 application getting processed then I can move next year probably. Looking at WA health it seems like there's loads of drug and alcohol work going in particular. The jobs site isn't very good for separating out mental health related jobs though so you've got to wade through quite a bit of medical roles.

Also the salary structure is very confusing so I'm having a hard time figuring out what pay I'll be offered. I have 7 years of experience as a UK RMN (currently band 6) not sure if that gets taken into account or I'll just start at the bottom of their equivalent of band 5 or if you can negotiate to start higher. Also some roles seem to have super included in the given salary and some don't.  

On 09/06/2023 at 11:34, ali said:

I can only speak for the clinic I work at and you don't work from home - happy for you to drop me a line - I'm the team leader for a community and EEP team.

 

Are there specific community mental health services for older adults or are they just included the same in regular 18+ community caseloads?

[ali]

On 29/06/2023 at 18:49, RubyMonday said:

Ditto, just waiting on my 189 application getting processed then I can move next year probably. Looking at WA health it seems like there's loads of drug and alcohol work going in particular. The jobs site isn't very good for separating out mental health related jobs though so you've got to wade through quite a bit of medical roles.

Also the salary structure is very confusing so I'm having a hard time figuring out what pay I'll be offered. I have 7 years of experience as a UK RMN (currently band 6) not sure if that gets taken into account or I'll just start at the bottom of their equivalent of band 5 or if you can negotiate to start higher. Also some roles seem to have super included in the given salary and some don't.  

Are there specific community mental health services for older adults or are they just included the same in regular 18+ community caseloads?

There are separate OAMH teams.  Most community jobs are level 2 jobs, so when searching (Jobs WA is the best), look for Clinical Nurse Level 2.   You would likely start at level 2.1 (there are 4 increments) which you get automatically each year.  if you apply for a level 1 Registered nurse (mostly wards) then with your experience you would likely be at Level 1.7 (8 increments).

Do check the job adverts, I know that ours usually say you have to be a citizen or have PR to apply for a permanent position.  If you have visa, registration already in place you will be seen as a more attractive candidate - they'd rather have someone ready to fill the vacancy than wait several months.  

Were most UK nurses fall down with the application is addressing the selection criteria (most don't) which makes it difficult to get shortlisted.  Happy to help and give you some tips when you're ready

 

[RubyMonday]

On 01/07/2023 at 01:39, ali said:

There are separate OAMH teams.  Most community jobs are level 2 jobs, so when searching (Jobs WA is the best), look for Clinical Nurse Level 2.   You would likely start at level 2.1 (there are 4 increments) which you get automatically each year.  if you apply for a level 1 Registered nurse (mostly wards) then with your experience you would likely be at Level 1.7 (8 increments).

Do check the job adverts, I know that ours usually say you have to be a citizen or have PR to apply for a permanent position.  If you have visa, registration already in place you will be seen as a more attractive candidate - they'd rather have someone ready to fill the vacancy than wait several months.  

Were most UK nurses fall down with the application is addressing the selection criteria (most don't) which makes it difficult to get shortlisted.  Happy to help and give you some tips when you're ready

 

Thank you so much, that's very helpful.

[Marisawright]

@RubyMonday just to clarify, superannuation is mandatory in Australia so all jobs will have it. It's just that employers choose different ways to express the salary.  

I find it annoying when employers choose to show the salary inclusive of superannuation, but it's just a case of calculating backwards to get the actual salary (currently, superannuation is 11% of gross salary).  

Of course, if an employer advertises a salary excluding superannuation, then you add 11% to get the full package figure. 

 

[RubyMonday]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@RubyMonday just to clarify, superannuation is mandatory in Australia so all jobs will have it. It's just that employers choose different ways to express the salary.  

I find it annoying when employers choose to show the salary inclusive of superannuation, but it's just a case of calculating backwards to get the actual salary (currently, superannuation is 11% of gross salary).  

Of course, if an employer advertises a salary excluding superannuation, then you add 11% to get the full package figure. 

 

I'd rather they just have the base salary then say it's +super %. I've seen different WA gov nursing jobs have different % though from 9.5% to 11%. Is it only employer contributed or do you also have to pay a certain percentage of your own salary to the fund as well like UK? It seems to me from reading that it's maybe just optional to pay towards it?

[Marisawright]

12 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

I'd rather they just have the base salary then say it's +super %.

I agree it would be much nicer if they all did it the same way!

12 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

 I've seen different WA gov nursing jobs have different % though from 9.5% to 11%. 

The amount is fixed by the government.  It just went up to 11% on 1st July so those other jobs are quoting the old rate.

13 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

Is it only employer contributed or do you also have to pay a certain percentage of your own salary to the fund as well like UK?

It's not compulsory to pay extra into your super.  You can choose to "salary sacrifice" extra into your super which can be worthwhile if you can afford it, because it can reduce your tax.  

I wouldn't do it until you're 150% sure you're going to live in Australia forever, because once you've paid the money in, it's stuck there until you reach retirement age, even if you return to the UK to live.  And if your retire overseas, there will be tax penalties.

[InnerVoice]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@RubyMonday just to clarify, superannuation is mandatory in Australia so all jobs will have it. It's just that employers choose different ways to express the salary.  

I find it annoying when employers choose to show the salary inclusive of superannuation, but it's just a case of calculating backwards to get the actual salary (currently, superannuation is 11% of gross salary).

 

14 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

I'd rather they just have the base salary then say it's +super %. 

I agree with Marisa in that's it's annoying when employers show salaries inclusive of super, and so few do it these days I'd be very wary of sharp practice. If you're working in the public sector, salaries scales are readily available so you can ensure that you're remunerated accordingly.  

Employer super contributions are currently 11%, set to increase to 11.5% in 2024, and then 12% by 1 July 2025. Every employer has to pay this by the law, although I can imagine that some will try and find ways to avoid it. The system here is far more generous than the UK where the minimum employer contribution is 3% and employee contribution is 5%. I work for the Queensland government and because I make a voluntary contribution of 5% they increase theirs to 12.75%, so I get almost 18% of my salary going into my pension every year.

[Jibba]

I work as a senior mental health nurse in a public community mental health team in Victoria.

I work 4 days a week and have a caseload of around 18-22. All adults of working age. There is a crossover between both youth services and aged care services. Aged care services are well known for refusing to accept referrals from adult services, despite obvious care needs - as long as the client is still being actively case managed. The work is relatively flexible and depending on the team, you can very much feel like 'your own boss' but there also is a big focus on team based approaches too, which helps to lighten the pressure.

Definitely look into salary packaging / salary sacrificing. You essentially sacrifice an amount of money each fortnight towards mortgage / rent / bills. With this you get paid your salary with the nominated amount taken out or sacrificed. You then go on the lower tax bracket as a result. A day later that sacrificed amount gets paid back into your account untaxed. It's only for public health service workers, not the private sector (and emergency services). It's truly great and I always summarise it to my British friends as a way we're "legally allowed to beat the taxman".

Overall work life balance is great. They very much factor personal leave into your allowances - there's no shaming culture like there tends to be in the UK when you take a sick day or some carer's leave. The pay is significantly better too but the cost of living is very high here at the moment. Still, I have always lived very comfortably here and I doubt I would be if I was working for the NHS right now.

[RubyMonday]

13 minutes ago, Jibba said:

I work as a senior mental health nurse in a public community mental health team in Victoria.

I work 4 days a week and have a caseload of around 18-22. All adults of working age. There is a crossover between both youth services and aged care services. Aged care services are well known for refusing to accept referrals from adult services, despite obvious care needs - as long as the client is still being actively case managed. The work is relatively flexible and depending on the team, you can very much feel like 'your own boss' but there also is a big focus on team based approaches too, which helps to lighten the pressure.

Definitely look into salary packaging / salary sacrificing. You essentially sacrifice an amount of money each fortnight towards mortgage / rent / bills. With this you get paid your salary with the nominated amount taken out or sacrificed. You then go on the lower tax bracket as a result. A day later that sacrificed amount gets paid back into your account untaxed. It's only for public health service workers, not the private sector (and emergency services). It's truly great and I always summarise it to my British friends as a way we're "legally allowed to beat the taxman".

Overall work life balance is great. They very much factor personal leave into your allowances - there's no shaming culture like there tends to be in the UK when you take a sick day or some carer's leave. The pay is significantly better too but the cost of living is very high here at the moment. Still, I have always lived very comfortably here and I doubt I would be if I was working for the NHS right now.

I'm in the crisis team at the moment so it's a team caseload rather than individual, I've never had my own caseload. 18-22 sounds pretty good though compared to the numbers I'm hearing about from CPN colleagues here. Ideally I'd like to stay older adults but I'd be willing to do working age if that's where the jobs were. I'm not sure if I should go back onto the wards first rather than going straight to community just to build my Australian experience quickly with more support around. I've heard staffing is better there on inpatient units but can't find any actual numbers i.e. standard 2 RN on 20 bedded unit, 4 support staff etc. I'd rather not end up running a ward by myself with agency staff as "support" the way it was on the wards here before I left for community, especially in a system I'm not confident in yet.

Also my salary is bumped up quite a bit here from unsocial enhancements and sat/sun working. I've seen mention of penalty rates, is that the same thing?

[InnerVoice]

8 hours ago, RubyMonday said:

Also my salary is bumped up quite a bit here from unsocial enhancements and sat/sun working. I've seen mention of penalty rates, is that the same thing?

Yes, it is. My wife is a casual worker, which is more or less the same as the zero-hours contract over in the UK. She doesn't receive any holiday pay or receive any sick leave entitlement, but she still gets her employer super contribution on top of her pay. Her casual hourly rate is 25% more than permanent staff during week days, 50% on Saturdays, 75% on Sundays, and a whopping 250% on public holidays. If you're in a role for a year or more as a casual worker, your employer has to offer you a permanent position. My wife gets offered it every year but she always refuses because she makes a lot more money working as a casual, but there's no job security of course so it's always a bit of a risk.

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Jibba said:

Definitely look into salary packaging / salary sacrificing. You essentially sacrifice an amount of money each fortnight towards mortgage / rent / bills. With this you get paid your salary with the nominated amount taken out or sacrificed. You then go on the lower tax bracket as a result. A day later that sacrificed amount gets paid back into your account untaxed. It's only for public health service workers, not the private sector (and emergency services). It's truly great and I always summarise it to my British friends as a way we're "legally allowed to beat the taxman".

Wow that sounds crazy.  I know you can salary sacrifice for a mortgage, but the employer pays the money directly to the lender.   If the money gets sacrificed and then gets paid to the employee, then the employee could go and spend it on anything, surely?  I'm curious if @Ken has heard of this.

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Wow that sounds crazy.  I know you can salary sacrifice for a mortgage, but the employer pays the money directly to the lender.   If the money gets sacrificed and then gets paid to the employee, then the employee could go and spend it on anything, surely?  I'm curious if @Ken has heard of this.

Wow, never worked like that when I salary sacrificed - it was paid to whatever organisation I wanted it to go to (mine was mainly superannuation but I know others paid school fees, car lease etc), it never came back to me

[InnerVoice]

Oops, double-post!

Edited July 4, 2023 by InnerVoice

[InnerVoice]

17 hours ago, Jibba said:

Definitely look into salary packaging / salary sacrificing. You essentially sacrifice an amount of money each fortnight towards mortgage / rent / bills. With this you get paid your salary with the nominated amount taken out or sacrificed. You then go on the lower tax bracket as a result. A day later that sacrificed amount gets paid back into your account untaxed. It's only for public health service workers, not the private sector (and emergency services). It's truly great and I always summarise it to my British friends as a way we're "legally allowed to beat the taxman".

 

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Wow that sounds crazy.  I know you can salary sacrifice for a mortgage, but the employer pays the money directly to the lender.   If the money gets sacrificed and then gets paid to the employee, then the employee could go and spend it on anything, surely?  I'm curious if @Ken has heard of this.

 

19 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Wow, never worked like that when I salary sacrificed - it was paid to whatever organisation I wanted it to go to (mine was mainly superannuation but I know others paid school fees, car lease etc), it never came back to me

When you salary sacrifice you don't get any money back - at least I never have. The sacrificed amount is directed towards superannuation contributions, motor vehicles, laptops etc, depending on what your employer offers. It reduces an employee's taxable income and there's a point where you can effectively 'break even' by ending up with the same net pay, whilst having made a contribution towards one of the aforementioned. It's a nice arrangement because you never miss the money, but for most people the end result is not much different than claiming legitimate expenses at the end of the financial year and receiving a tax refund. You also have to pay a small fee every month to the company that handles the sacrificing. I use Remserv, who charge the princely sum of $1.35/fortnight.

[RubyMonday]

31 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

 

 

When you salary sacrifice you don't get any money back - at least I never have. The sacrificed amount is directed towards superannuation contributions, motor vehicles, laptops etc, depending on what your employer offers. It reduces an employee's taxable income and there's a point where you can effectively 'break even' by ending up with the same net pay, whilst having made a contribution towards one of the aforementioned. It's a nice arrangement because you never miss the money, but for most people the end result is not much different than claiming legitimate expenses at the end of the financial year and receiving a tax refund. You also have to pay a small fee every month to the company that handles the sacrificing. I use Remserv, who charge the princely sum of $1.35/fortnight.

Sounds good, I don't actually have any salary sacrifices at my job at the moment but had considered getting a lease car through my healthcare trust. The problem is it lowers your pay by the amount sacrificed and so lowers your pension. Is that the case here so you'd have less money going to super? 

[Drumbeat]

39 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

 

 

When you salary sacrifice you don't get any money back - at least I never have. The sacrificed amount is directed towards superannuation contributions, motor vehicles, laptops etc, depending on what your employer offers. It reduces an employee's taxable income and there's a point where you can effectively 'break even' by ending up with the same net pay, whilst having made a contribution towards one of the aforementioned. It's a nice arrangement because you never miss the money, but for most people the end result is not much different than claiming legitimate expenses at the end of the financial year and receiving a tax refund. You also have to pay a small fee every month to the company that handles the sacrificing. I use Remserv, who charge the princely sum of $1.35/fortnight.

As you say it depends on what you're employer offers. The package I used I was able to claim living expenses so I submitted my credit card statements up to the annual limit and a monthly payment was made into my bank account so I actually did get money back.

[Marisawright]

4 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

Sounds good, I don't actually have any salary sacrifices at my job at the moment but had considered getting a lease car through my healthcare trust. The problem is it lowers your pay by the amount sacrificed and so lowers your pension. Is that the case here so you'd have less money going to super? 

I'm pretty sure that your super is payable on your gross salary, so salary sacrificing wouldn't affect it.  I'm no expert though.

Car leasing is much less common in Australia than in the UK.  Most people either settle for a second-hand car or get a bank loan (but never, ever arrange a loan or lease through the car dealership, they are a rip-off here).   You can salary sacrifice to lease a car through your employer, if the employer offers that option (not all do). 

I would just advise caution about taking on a long lease when you've just arrived in Australia.  Every now and then, someone posts here to say, "I took out a car lease when I arrived in Australia but my circumstances have changed and I have to/want to move back to the UK this year.  I can't legally sell the car and I can't afford to pay the lease off, what on earth can I do?" 

 

[Marisawright]

7 minutes ago, Drumbeat said:

As you say it depends on what you're employer offers. The package I used I was able to claim living expenses so I submitted my credit card statements up to the annual limit and a monthly payment was made into my bank account so I actually did get money back.

But was that actual salary sacrifice, or did you just have an expenses allowance? That sounds like you negotiated to take a lower salary plus expense allowance.  There is a difference.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Marisawright

[RubyMonday]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'm pretty sure that your super is payable on your gross salary, so salary sacrificing wouldn't affect it.  I'm no expert though.

Car leasing is much less common in Australia than in the UK.  Most people either settle for a second-hand car or get a bank loan (but never, ever arrange a loan or lease through the car dealership, they are a rip-off here).   You can salary sacrifice to lease a car through your employer, if the employer offers that option (not all do). 

I would just advise caution about taking on a long lease when you've just arrived in Australia.  Every now and then, someone posts here to say, "I took out a car lease when I arrived in Australia but my circumstances have changed and I have to/want to move back to the UK this year.  I can't legally sell the car and I can't afford to pay the lease off, what on earth can I do?" 

 

I definitely wouldn't do that, it's why I didn't get the lease here since I wasn't sure if I was staying in my current job never mind going to Australia. I'm hoping to get by on public transport for a while until I see if I'll be staying long term. If staying I'd be more likely to get a second hand car, I'm not a car snob as long as it gets me where I need to go I don't mind an older car. 

[InnerVoice]

41 minutes ago, RubyMonday said:

Sounds good, I don't actually have any salary sacrifices at my job at the moment but had considered getting a lease car through my healthcare trust. The problem is it lowers your pay by the amount sacrificed and so lowers your pension. Is that the case here so you'd have less money going to super? 

It doesn't lower your pay, it lowers your taxable income. Your employer's contributions to your super will be the same regardless of whether you salary sacrifice or not.

I only salary sacrifice into my super (QSuper) and by contributing 5%, the Queensland government contributes 12.75%. If I didn't then I'd receive the stand employer contribution of 11%, but it was only 9.5% until a year or so ago. I could make the same contributions post-tax and claim a deduction for personal contributions to super when I complete my tax return, but it's just easier to have them take it out on a regular basis so I don't need to think about it.

Edited July 4, 2023 by InnerVoice

[Drumbeat]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

But was that actual salary sacrifice, or did you just have an expenses allowance? That sounds like you negotiated to take a lower salary plus expense allowance.  There is a difference.

No it was salary sacrifice, I worked for WA Health so no expenses for me . You could also put money on an Entertainment Card for dining out, my friends did this but I never bothered.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Drumbeat

[RubyMonday]

41 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

It doesn't lower your pay, it lowers your taxable income. Your employer's contributions to your super will be the same regardless of whether you salary sacrifice or not.

I only salary sacrifice into my super (QSuper) and by contributing 5%, the Queensland government contributes 12.75%. If I didn't then I'd receive the stand employer contribution of 11%, but it was only 9.5% until a year or so ago. I could make the same contributions post-tax and claim a deduction for personal contributions to super when I complete my tax return, but it's just easier to have them take it out on a regular basis so I don't need to think about it.

Sounds like a much better system that works in the employees favour rather than penalising. I'd rather pay for things along the way than have to wait on the tax return.