Dual Citizenship travel

[Parley]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Theoretically yes, but in practical terms I think that is an entitlement not a fact until tested, either by registration or application of some kind?  How would they know you exist if your birth was registered in Australia.

My kids born in Australia are British Citizens by Descent. They have never been registered as such but that doesn't stop the fact they are citizens.

One day they may apply for British Passports and provide the supporting documentation to prove their eligibility.

But you are right at an airport you need a passport as proof of your citizenship. But it is wrong to say you aren't a citizen until you are registered. That is not what the law says.

Australia is different by the way. Australia does not automatically give Citizenship by Descent - it has to be applied for.

[Jon the Hat]

28 minutes ago, Parley said:

My kids born in Australia are British Citizens by Descent. They have never been registered as such but that doesn't stop the fact they are citizens.

One day they may apply for British Passports and provide the supporting documentation to prove their eligibility.

But you are right at an airport you need a passport as proof of your citizenship. But it is wrong to say you aren't a citizen until you are registered. That is not what the law says.

Australia is different by the way. Australia does not automatically give Citizenship by Descent - it has to be applied for.

That might be what is in my head, as ours were born in the UK and had to apply for their Australia citizenship.

[mrsmac]

On 19/07/2022 at 07:52, paulhand said:

The difference with Australia is that all non citizens require a visa to enter Australia and an Australian citizen cannot, by law, be granted an Australian visa. Therefore you cannot enter Australia on a foreign passport if you are an Australian citizen. They cannot turn you away if you are an Australian citizen and do not have an Australian passport but expect significant hassle with the airline and some time wasting at the border as your identity and status is confirmed. 

My son misplaced his passport somewhere between the Isle of Man, Eastbourne and Edinburgh. Simplest solution would be to report it lost and have a new one issued. Or so you might think, but no, it's not that simple. With the Australian Embassy in London open for just 2 hours a day, getting a replacement passport in time for his flight to Australia on 13 September is proving to be an expensive nightmare. He has to present himself at the embassy in person - first available appointment 26 September! Best they can do is offer him an emergency passport but he cannot have an appointment for this until a fortnight before he flies. This means getting down to London for the allocated time slot and flying back, praying his flight is not delayed or cancelled - probably a 50/50 chance just now. £££!! Why do they have to make it so difficult?! 

In exasperation and to ensure he can at least get on his flight, he has acquired an ETA on his British passport to enter as a visitor and then apply for a new passport on his return. This does of course come with its own problems, as under the terms of the visa, he can only remain (and not work) for 3 months. Explaining at immigration why he has done this is also a bother. But I can understand his thinking. It is going to cost him a fortune to get down to London and back, with no guarantee that he will even make his allotted appointment time and secure his passport.

In this scenario, his British passport will get him on to the plane from Edinburgh and again from Doha, but on arrival in Australia, should he present at immigration with the coloured photocopy of his Australian passport (which has not been cancelled) and beg for lenience, as opposed to scanning through on his British passport, therefore activating the Visitor visa? 

In the meantime, the search for his passport in every crevasse of every document folder, golf and cricket bag, jacket and jeans pocket continues ...

Thanks Paul. 

[paulhand]

As I said in my post, an Australian visa cannot be legally granted to an Australian citizen. There is an emergency “visa” which is not actually a visa that is meant to fill-in in such circumstances. It’s called an ADV.

How did he answer the question “f you hold citizenship of any countries other than the country listed in your passport, provide details” on the 651 application form?

[mrsmac]

He answered 'Yes' and 'Australian'. It simply went on to the next question. They approved his visa. The advice about the ADV is that it can take up to 3 months to be processed and costs $240, hence trying for the 601, because without it he won't get on the plane. Once in Australia, he will present to immigration with the colour copy of his passport and be identified as an Australian citizen. That's the plan. 

[Cup Final 1973]

On 19/07/2022 at 00:56, Marisawright said:

Strictly speaking, if you are a British citizen, you are supposed to enter the UK on a British passport. 

In practice, if you just use your Australian passport and don't tell anyone you're British, no one will check.  You'll be allowed in for a holiday, like any other Australian.

The problem arises if you arrive at the UK Border and tell someone that you're a British citizen, then they get all funny about it. 

We’ve just had a visit from some Aussie friends, one of whom moved to Australia from the UK in his twenties.  He travelled on his Aussie passport, only to be challenged by the immigration officer and asked for his British passport!  He was held up for some time and told in no uncertain terms that he should have travelled on his British passport.

[ali]

1 hour ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

We’ve just had a visit from some Aussie friends, one of whom moved to Australia from the UK in his twenties.  He travelled on his Aussie passport, only to be challenged by the immigration officer and asked for his British passport!  He was held up for some time and told in no uncertain terms that he should have travelled on his British passport.

We let our British Passports expire - and didn't get challenged on returning to the UK on our Australian ones.  It may have something to do with length of stay perhaps?

[DIG85]

6 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

We’ve just had a visit from some Aussie friends, one of whom moved to Australia from the UK in his twenties.  He travelled on his Aussie passport, only to be challenged by the immigration officer and asked for his British passport!  He was held up for some time and told in no uncertain terms that he should have travelled on his British passport.

I’d be interested to know what statute or regulation the immigration officer quoted at your friend.

There isn’t even any legal requirement for a British citizen to have a British passport (25% of the population don’t), so I’ve no idea how any requirement to enter the UK on a British passport can be enforced.

[Marisawright]

9 minutes ago, DIG85 said:

I’d be interested to know what statute or regulation the immigration officer quoted at your friend.

There isn’t even any legal requirement for a British citizen to have a British passport (25% of the population don’t), so I’ve no idea how any requirement to enter the UK on a British passport can be enforced.

I guess it's really irrelevant whether it "can be enforced" or not.  It will be up to the individual traveler to decide whether they want to risk the inconvenience of having to argue the toss with an Immigration Officer for hours at the beginning of their holiday.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Marisawright

[mrsmac]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I guess it's really irrelevant whether it "can be enforced" or not.  It will be up to the individual traveler to decide whether they want to risk the inconvenience of having to argue the toss with an Immigration Officer for hours at the beginning of their holiday.

I think you are right Marisa, because it seems dependent on which immigration officer you get on arrival. And when you’re getting conflicting advice from the Australian Embassy, you have no solid guidance on which option is going to be the right one.

Citizens, especially the younger generation of travellers, are not likely to invest $240 for an emergency visa that is possibly not going to be granted in time for their return, and with no possibility of refund. 
At the end of the day, the Australian immigration show is a shambles. It really doesn’t need to be so difficult. 

[paulhand]

13 hours ago, mrsmac said:

He answered 'Yes' and 'Australian'. It simply went on to the next question. They approved his visa. The advice about the ADV is that it can take up to 3 months to be processed and costs $240, hence trying for the 601, because without it he won't get on the plane. Once in Australia, he will present to immigration with the colour copy of his passport and be identified as an Australian citizen. That's the plan. 

That's not possible as Australia isn't an option in the additional citizenship drop-down box for an online eVisitor passport.

[mrsmac]

54 minutes ago, paulhand said:

That's not possible as Australia isn't an option in the additional citizenship drop-down box for an online eVisitor passport.

Then I don't know Paul. He knows he answered 'Yes'. Perhaps he was just telling me that he answered yes because he has an Australian passport and I misunderstood. He didn't know at the time of applying that he wasn't permitted to get the visa, and he won't be activating it - it is simply to get him on the plane if all else fails. Hopefully he can manage to arrange a replacement passport before then. There is so much conflicting information and advice. 

[Nemesis]

6 hours ago, DIG85 said:

I’d be interested to know what statute or regulation the immigration officer quoted at your friend.

There isn’t even any legal requirement for a British citizen to have a British passport (25% of the population don’t), so I’ve no idea how any requirement to enter the UK on a British passport can be enforced.

Would be interesting as there is no rule in existence that says you must enter/leave on a British passport if you have one.  

Theres a rule about using the home country passport here in Oz, and in the USA. Canada is also bringing it in, I understand. But not the UK. 

[paulhand]

6 hours ago, DIG85 said:

I’d be interested to know what statute or regulation the immigration officer quoted at your friend.

There isn’t even any legal requirement for a British citizen to have a British passport (25% of the population don’t), so I’ve no idea how any requirement to enter the UK on a British passport can be enforced.

Nor is there a requirement for an Australian citizen to have an Australian passport (43% didn't in 2019-20) - they just need one if they want to leave and return.