Is it still worth it

[MARYROSE02]

4 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Better still get a cross section of opinion and allow the OP to make up own mind. Australia, by most measurements, most certainly is nothing like the country it was when you arrived. Plenty leave, immigration is a business. Some settle some don't. But if already experiencing a 'good life' where are, why exactly throw it away on a whim?

"Plenty leave?" Show me some statistics which prove that a large proportion of migrants,  from whichever country they are from,  return to their homelands  - permanently. 

I've no idea what "Australia is most certainly nothing like the country it was when I arrived". 

I've no idea if traffic, crime, or whatever other factor you want to use is better or worse. I'd probably say it's about the same.

I had a good life in England before  I came here.  I sometimes wonder if it was a mistake to come but I've mostly had a good life in Sydney. If I've had a problem it's because I lived in a little village and I moved to Gotham. 

I would argue that most successful migrants succeed because they were successful in their home countries.  But who knows. 

Provide me with some firm statistics that show that migrants are all returning to their home countries in greater numbers than in the past.  I have an open mind. 

[MARYROSE02]

4 hours ago, Ruth1 said:

Thanks everyone for your helpful and considered replies. To answer some questions, I was a student at university whilst in Aus previously, so my experience was probably somewhere in the middle between mundanity of work and the carefree life of a backpacker..

I work in healthcare, and my job in the NHS has changed beyond recognition since the pandemic hit. We have been working harder than ever, which is fine, but have been treated pretty badly in my opinion, so genuinely do think the prospects in Aus would be better. Also, I hate to say this, but seeing the state the NHS is in makes me worry for if myself or my husband ever needed medical care and I know the healthcare system in Aus ia one of the best in the world. My job would be on a temporary 482 visa but costs are covered..

Finally, its just me and my hubby, no kids which undoubtedly makes the decision easier. He is up for it, even though it is my dream really, as he is feeling a bit bored with his work atm.

I think the idea of treating it like a sabbatical is a good one.. Nothing to lose by trying it then (except perhaps a bit of money)

I have two nurse mates (both male) here in Sydney. One is working on the Covid wards this weekend whilst the other is in aged care. They both seem upbeat about the present situation with Covid. 

I don't know how to compare the health system in Australia  - Sydney in my case - and the UK. I do know that,  unless things have changed,  GPs are only open in England Monday to Friday whereas in Sydney many open seven days a week.

I lived in a small village in England where Southampton was the "Big Smoke." Sydney had 5 million people. I half wish I'd lived in London before I came here to "acclimatise" myself to city life. 

Moving to another country probably means a period of "acclimatising" although not all people experience it in the same way. I went back to England to "live" as opposed to holidays, and it was like emigrating again, and when I came back to Sydney I "emigrated" a third time. Now, after 13 years I just "live" here.

[FirstWorldProblems]

From everything you have said, you should 100% go for it.

And I say that as someone who much prefers my life in the UK to what Sydney offered/offers me.   Worst case you have an adventure, clock up some new experiences and take a break from what is clearly a tough, tough time in the NHS.  You can head back to the UK in a year if you want to and you'll walk straight back into an NHS role no bother.  Ok your bank account might be a little bit lighter but that's all.  On the flip side you might find it's a perfect fit for you both and the best thing you've ever done.  I really don't see how you can lose by giving it a try.

 

 

[Quoll]

Sounds like you are up for a career break adventure. Be aware that as the  dependent on your temporary visa your DH might struggle to find meaningful career oriented work. You haven't said what he does for a living but if he's in trades there will be multiple certifications to plough through. Employers aren't always keen on training up someone in their organisation who may leave at the drop of a hat.  If he had a niche skill which is in demand he should be OK. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

Sounds like you are up for a career break adventure. Be aware that as the  dependent on your temporary visa your DH might struggle to find meaningful career oriented work. You haven't said what he does for a living but if he's in trades there will be multiple certifications to plough through. Employers aren't always keen on training up someone in their organisation who may leave at the drop of a hat.  If he had a niche skill which is in demand he should be OK. 

The OP isn't viewing it as a career break, she's been offered a job in her field so she can count that towards her career progression.  As you say, sometimes dependents struggle to get jobs but I suspect that in Port Macquarie, employers aren't exactly flush with good applicants so it will be less of an issue.  By the same token, there will be fewer jobs around in such a small place - but in their shoes, I think the DH could view it as an opportunity for a career break, and try something else for a couple of years.  

Edited January 8, 2022 by Marisawright

[Blue Flu]

11 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Maybe you need to start a new thread as said off topic . 

I already did long ago. But only brought it up again in answer to a comment you made. But the overall onus is certainly not misplaced , especially if looking at the big picture. There are many considerations to moving to Australia to gain an overall picture with regards to desirability.  

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

The OP isn't viewing it as a career break, she's been offered a job in her field so she can count that towards her career progression.  As you say, sometimes dependents struggle to get jobs but I suspect that in Port Macquarie, employers aren't exactly flush with good applicants so it will be less of an issue.  By the same token, there will be fewer jobs around in such a small place - but in their shoes, I think the DH could view it as an opportunity for a career break, and try something else for a couple of years.  

And that's where the difference lays. The OP is questioning if Australia is still worth it. A very debatable subject in the year 2022. Is it really career progression? No idea. But the broader picture of life now . I think we all know viewing something as a career break while feasible may prove harder in reality for a host of reasons. I'm all for trying something different but the original post suggested more a life change just by posing the question mentioned. But only they will know hopefully what's best for them. 

[Blue Flu]

13 hours ago, Bulya said:

Because life is better here…

Debatable. If life was clearly so much better you would not have the return rate, nor the arguments for and against. Obviously, life is better for some. Not for others. Those that arrived when times were easier, and profited handsomely may indeed consider it better. 

Just as life in Britain is better for some coming from elsewhere  but a regression for others. I'd say pretty much even stephens these days if simply comparing UK with Australia. (outside of weather ) 

[MARYROSE02]

1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

Debatable. If life was clearly so much better you would not have the return rate, nor the arguments for and against. Obviously, life is better for some. Not for others. Those that arrived when times were easier, and profited handsomely may indeed consider it better. 

Just as life in Britain is better for some coming from elsewhere  but a regression for others. I'd say pretty much even stephens these days if simply comparing UK with Australia. (outside of weather ) 

You mention "the return rate" implying it is high. If you have the statistics to prove it then fine but I doubt the proportion of people who return to the UK from Australia is any higher today than it was during the "Ten Pound Poms" years, I.e. 1.5 million went to Oz, 250, 000 returned to the UK, then half of those 250, 000 went to Oz for a second time,  and most stayed.

 

 

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

t I doubt the proportion of people who return to the UK from Australia is any higher today than it was during the "Ten Pound Poms" years,

I think you're wrong.  Not because there's anything wrong with Australia, but because circumstances have changed over time.

When my auntie and uncle came to Australia as "Ten Pound Poms", they knew it was a one-way trip. To them, it seemed almost like going to another planet, it was so far away.  They couldn't afford to pay the fares to go back.  Also they were leaving poor circumstances to come to a land of opportunity where they had much, much greater chances of success.  Even if they felt homesick or missed family, they were likely to stick it out. 

By the time I migrated thirty years ago, travel was getting cheaper, so if I'd hated it, I could've gone back to the UK.  But in Scotland, I'd been unable to get a proper job for over a year, and I got  offered three jobs within weeks of arriving in Sydney.  The benefit in opportunities (and salaries) was so noticeable, even if I'd been a bit homesick, I would've stuck it out.

These days (when the borders are open!) it's fairly cheap to jet back and forth to Australia as often as you like.  Pre-Covid, it was becoming much more common for Brits to come to Australia for a two-week holiday.   Unemployment in the UK and Australia is about the same, so job opportunities aren't greater here either (though it varies by occupation, obviously).  Housing is not cheap any more.   

So I'd say the number of migrants who go home has increased greatly.  Not because there's anything wrong with Australia, but because it's so much easier to go back nowadays.  It's much easier than it used to be for a migrant to give up and go home, if things don't quite live up to the dream they had in mind.  And that happens quite a lot - so many Brits still think Australia means having a house on a quarter-acre block by the beach, and living the Home and Away lifestyle, and nowadays most will never be able to afford that. Although the OP might, going to Port Macquarie.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Marisawright

[armada]

18 hours ago, Ruth1 said:

Thanks everyone for your helpful and considered replies. To answer some questions, I was a student at university whilst in Aus previously, so my experience was probably somewhere in the middle between mundanity of work and the carefree life of a backpacker..

I work in healthcare, and my job in the NHS has changed beyond recognition since the pandemic hit. We have been working harder than ever, which is fine, but have been treated pretty badly in my opinion, so genuinely do think the prospects in Aus would be better. Also, I hate to say this, but seeing the state the NHS is in makes me worry for if myself or my husband ever needed medical care and I know the healthcare system in Aus ia one of the best in the world. My job would be on a temporary 482 visa but costs are covered..

Finally, its just me and my hubby, no kids which undoubtedly makes the decision easier. He is up for it, even though it is my dream really, as he is feeling a bit bored with his work atm.

I think the idea of treating it like a sabbatical is a good one.. Nothing to lose by trying it then (except perhaps a bit of money)

Hi Ruth, just a bit of positive encouragement - myself, my husband and my pre-school child moved here in September 2021 and are loving it. Despite it being a long-held dream of mine, we still had reservations up until we got out of quarantine! But the alternative was to raise a family in a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them. Australia may have it's own issues in this regard but it doesn't suffer from a class system like in the UK and is all the better for it. 

I also work in healthcare and the pay and conditions at my particular hospital you could only dream of back home in the UK. It's not perfect, but relative to the NHS astonishingly good. At least I feel like I am being appropriately compensated for my time and expertise and treated like a human being rather than some kind of automaton. My husband is not medical but he got a job pretty easily before we left and got a 20% pay rise for less work. I have seen my pay nearly double. We are also on a 482 as this move has been a dream of mine for a long time and the only way we could move forward with it during covid was to get onshore. So here we are! None of our costs were covered so if yours are, what are you waiting for!? Certain things are more expensive when you don't have PR, like childcare (that you won't have to consider), and not being able to raise bank loans or enter into novated leases so having to rent a banger for a grand a month! Rent is comparable or a bit more expensive but the standard of build here is better. And you can definitely build for cheaper than in the UK. Depends where you want to live. Overall we are more comfortable than in the UK. And for us, with a young child, the amenities just on your doorstep are world class and would cancel out any drop in salary. We rarely sit around at home flicking through netflix, even with covid there is so much more to do than in the UK. We kept our property on in the UK 'just in case', and we have family in the UK that we miss but we have no intention of going back if we can help it! I think having some friends and family here already has helped us to settle but people are out and about, things are happening, there is scope to meet people. I just think Aussies have had such an incredible lifestyle here for so long that their "terrible" is pretty good! It's all relative

[Bulya]

4 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Debatable. If life was clearly so much better you would not have the return rate, nor the arguments for and against. Obviously, life is better for some. Not for others. Those that arrived when times were easier, and profited handsomely may indeed consider it better. 

Just as life in Britain is better for some coming from elsewhere  but a regression for others. I'd say pretty much even stephens these days if simply comparing UK with Australia. (outside of weather ) 

 If the price of lemons or the lack of Robinsons Cordial in the supermarket is important then maybe, but for the rest of us life is infinitely better here than it is in Blighty. 

[BeachBabe2022]

Hi Ruth

How extremely exciting to have a job offer and a move to NSW.

You say you were here in your 20s, so that is a good start, as you will have some idea of what to expect.

I understand about being indecisive. But as you say, it is something you have wanted to do for years. And I think you will forever regret it….. if you pass up the opportunity now.

Come out for five years, give it a real go, and if you don’t like it after that time, then go back to the UK or maybe over to New Zealand.

Of course, things change – you can hardly expect them to stay exactly the same. Even my Aussie husband says things have changed in Australia for the worse. But still there is no place I would rather be (well may make an exception for Bora Bora). I was just reminiscing yesterday and thinking how extremely grateful and happy and lucky that I got my resident visa all those years ago.

I arrived in 1995 and things have changed a lot in that time. Cost of food and housing and everything really is more expensive. But that is like anywhere, my sister says my hometown in the UK has changed beyond measure to the point I would no longer recognize it. She thinks I would hate it if I moved back.

I know some people move out here and hate it, and some people (such as myself) absolutely adore it and never want to leave. Who knows what category you will fall into, but if you don’t give it a go, you will never know will you?

You can get a nice house here, close to a gym, have your hobbies, and get comfortable jobs, plus make friends.

Things are going a bit crazy with the pandemic at the moment, but for the past two years, I have just been living my life as normal with a few adjustments like facemask wearing. I go to work, go to the beach, go on hikes, go whale watching, take drives to wineries, go skiing, go snorkelling, go on bike rides, and so on, life goes on.   

Personally, for me, I absolutely love living here, and I have a happy life. I have absolutely NO interest or desire to return to the UK. So, in nutshell, YES still worth it. At least I think so anyway.

Whereabouts in NSW are you aiming for?

[Ken]

1 hour ago, armada said:

But the alternative was to raise a family in a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them. Australia may have it's own issues in this regard but it doesn't suffer from a class system like in the UK and is all the better for it. 

"a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them" is a pretty accurate description of Australia. I don't think the class system is any worse in the UK. A survey in 2019 showed that two-thirds of Boris Johnson's cabinet went to private schools. I can't find figures for ScoMo's cabinet but 82% of Tony Abbot's 2013 cabinet attended private schools.

[beketamun]

5 minutes ago, Ken said:

"a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them" is a pretty accurate description of Australia. I don't think the class system is any worse in the UK. A survey in 2019 showed that two-thirds of Boris Johnson's cabinet went to private schools. I can't find figures for ScoMo's cabinet but 82% of Tony Abbot's 2013 cabinet attended private schools.

I agree with that, and the old "Aussie Labor is very different to UK Labour"...it's possibly more of a right wing, self-provisioning, personally responsible society in Australia and we have some of the richest, greediest people in the world living here, but haven't yet gone down the more self-destructive and extreme route that's made the UK run off the rails. 

I still cannot work out why facilities, protections and provisioning here is so much better, and people in a rightish society insist on these public facilities.....that is the opposite trend of the UK local authority areas where they've just bred people full of spitefulness and incessant complaints, almost enjoying closing down facilities that bettered them as a nation because they no longer care and can't be bothered if they think it will cost a penny.  When you get to the point about complaining about bin collections and start dumping your rubbish in the street, you're going more 3rd world with regards to personal pride than in the opposite direction.

I've just spend 20 minutes comparing neighbourhood dog parks here for what they offer, they have toilets, swimming ponds, free doggie bags, bins, segregation, some of these run zones are hectares, they get reseeded every year, shade sails for your bloody dog to go under, cold water taps in all corners, free bowls....and one has light sensors so you can go 24 hours a day and it opens up for an individual.  Nobody smashes them up, breaks bottles, sets fire to them.  Things like that make it worth living here, it's the quality and pride.

[Ken]

53 minutes ago, beketamun said:

I agree with that, and the old "Aussie Labor is very different to UK Labour"...it's possibly more of a right wing, self-provisioning, personally responsible society in Australia and we have some of the richest, greediest people in the world living here, but haven't yet gone down the more self-destructive and extreme route that's made the UK run off the rails. 

I still cannot work out why facilities, protections and provisioning here is so much better, and people in a rightish society insist on these public facilities.....that is the opposite trend of the UK local authority areas where they've just bred people full of spitefulness and incessant complaints, almost enjoying closing down facilities that bettered them as a nation because they no longer care and can't be bothered if they think it will cost a penny.  When you get to the point about complaining about bin collections and start dumping your rubbish in the street, you're going more 3rd world with regards to personal pride than in the opposite direction.

I've just spend 20 minutes comparing neighbourhood dog parks here for what they offer, they have toilets, swimming ponds, free doggie bags, bins, segregation, some of these run zones are hectares, they get reseeded every year, shade sails for your bloody dog to go under, cold water taps in all corners, free bowls....and one has light sensors so you can go 24 hours a day and it opens up for an individual.  Nobody smashes them up, breaks bottles, sets fire to them.  Things like that make it worth living here, it's the quality and pride.

Yes, Australian councils do seem to have managed to concentrate on providing services rather than cutting bills as the route to re-election, which is a very good thing.

[Bulya]

1 hour ago, Ken said:

"a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them" is a pretty accurate description of Australia. I don't think the class system is any worse in the UK. A survey in 2019 showed that two-thirds of Boris Johnson's cabinet went to private schools. I can't find figures for ScoMo's cabinet but 82% of Tony Abbot's 2013 cabinet attended private schools.

Private schools here don’t have the stigma they do in the U.K. and here in the ACT more then 30% of students attend private schools…

[MARYROSE02]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I think you're wrong.  Not because there's anything wrong with Australia, but because circumstances have changed over time.

When my auntie and uncle came to Australia as "Ten Pound Poms", they knew it was a one-way trip. To them, it seemed almost like going to another planet, it was so far away.  They couldn't afford to pay the fares to go back.  Also they were leaving poor circumstances to come to a land of opportunity where they had much, much greater chances of success.  Even if they felt homesick or missed family, they were likely to stick it out. 

By the time I migrated thirty years ago, travel was getting cheaper, so if I'd hated it, I could've gone back to the UK.  But in Scotland, I'd been unable to get a proper job for over a year, and I got  offered three jobs within weeks of arriving in Sydney.  The benefit in opportunities (and salaries) was so noticeable, even if I'd been a bit homesick, I would've stuck it out.

These days (when the borders are open!) it's fairly cheap to jet back and forth to Australia as often as you like.  Pre-Covid, it was becoming much more common for Brits to come to Australia for a two-week holiday.   Unemployment in the UK and Australia is about the same, so job opportunities aren't greater here either (though it varies by occupation, obviously).  Housing is not cheap any more.   

So I'd say the number of migrants who go home has increased greatly.  Not because there's anything wrong with Australia, but because it's so much easier to go back nowadays.  It's much easier than it used to be for a migrant to give up and go home, if things don't quite live up to the dream they had in mind.  And that happens quite a lot - so many Brits still think Australia means having a house on a quarter-acre block by the beach, and living the Home and Away lifestyle, and nowadays most will never be able to afford that. Although the OP might, going to Port Macquarie.

I'm open-minded. If someone can interpret the stats from either the Aussie or UK govts which prove there's a huge increase in people going back then I'll accept that. 

You could probably use PIO stats for that matter.  I suspect the prospective "New Chums" are put off by a minority of PIO members who have not settled in Oz.

It might be easier to travel back now but it's also easier to keep in contact with family members at "Home". When I came I had the phone, from a call box or in the Main PO at Martin Place, or "snail mail." Now, there's mobile phones, the Internet,  video phone calls. 

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Ken said:

"a society that continues to vote in right-wing disaster capitalists who are hell-bent on dismantling anything that does not enrich them" is a pretty accurate description of Australia. I don't think the class system is any worse in the UK. A survey in 2019 showed that two-thirds of Boris Johnson's cabinet went to private schools. I can't find figures for ScoMo's cabinet but 82% of Tony Abbot's 2013 cabinet attended private schools.

Class system in place in Australia equally, just with Australian characteristics.   Always astounded me that more don't see that. 

[Bulya]

2 hours ago, beketamun said:

I agree with that, and the old "Aussie Labor is very different to UK Labour"...it's possibly more of a right wing, self-provisioning, personally responsible society in Australia and we have some of the richest, greediest people in the world living here, but haven't yet gone down the more self-destructive and extreme route that's made the UK run off the rails. 

I still cannot work out why facilities, protections and provisioning here is so much better, and people in a rightish society insist on these public facilities.....that is the opposite trend of the UK local authority areas where they've just bred people full of spitefulness and incessant complaints, almost enjoying closing down facilities that bettered them as a nation because they no longer care and can't be bothered if they think it will cost a penny.  When you get to the point about complaining about bin collections and start dumping your rubbish in the street, you're going more 3rd world with regards to personal pride than in the opposite direction.

I've just spend 20 minutes comparing neighbourhood dog parks here for what they offer, they have toilets, swimming ponds, free doggie bags, bins, segregation, some of these run zones are hectares, they get reseeded every year, shade sails for your bloody dog to go under, cold water taps in all corners, free bowls....and one has light sensors so you can go 24 hours a day and it opens up for an individual.  Nobody smashes them up, breaks bottles, sets fire to them.  Things like that make it worth living here, it's the quality and pride.

The ACT has the best public facilities in the country.  Never ceases to amaze the stuff they have provided even in the most remote locations.  Drive up into the brindabella’s and you’ll find electric/gas bbq, toilets, shelters etc.  Spoilt here compared to anywhere else…

[DIG85]

On 07/01/2022 at 21:05, Marisawright said:

I would say, don't expect Australia to be cheaper than the UK.  Some things are cheaper, some things are expensive.  Some will say Australia is more expensive but I think it balances out.  

 

I'm not sure it does. Comparing Aus to UK is really eye-opening. Almost everything you buy in Aus as a consumer, from groceries to hardware to electronic devices, is considerably more expensive than in the UK.

Compare for example B&Q with Bunnings. Almost everything at B&Q is ¼ the price of what we pay in Australia, from tools to paint, damn near everything. You see the same thing comparing Tesco to Coles.

UK real estate being expensive sort of makes sense since the cost of living is very low in UK compared to here (average family spends just £60 pounds per week on groceries compared to Aus, where the average family is nearing $300/wk in proceries).

The only thing which is obviously cheaper in Aus is petrol, rego and insurance, but even that is offset by the fact that cars themselves are more expensive here.

Edited January 9, 2022 by DIG85

[DIG85]

14 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Class system in place in Australia equally, just with Australian characteristics.   Always astounded me that more don't see that. 

Completely agree. The idea that there's no class system in Australia is an utter myth. Any country which doesn't levy IHT is never going to be a classless society. 

 

[armada]

2 hours ago, beketamun said:

I agree with that, and the old "Aussie Labor is very different to UK Labour"...it's possibly more of a right wing, self-provisioning, personally responsible society in Australia and we have some of the richest, greediest people in the world living here, but haven't yet gone down the more self-destructive and extreme route that's made the UK run off the rails. 

I still cannot work out why facilities, protections and provisioning here is so much better, and people in a rightish society insist on these public facilities.....that is the opposite trend of the UK local authority areas where they've just bred people full of spitefulness and incessant complaints, almost enjoying closing down facilities that bettered them as a nation because they no longer care and can't be bothered if they think it will cost a penny.  When you get to the point about complaining about bin collections and start dumping your rubbish in the street, you're going more 3rd world with regards to personal pride than in the opposite direction.

I've just spend 20 minutes comparing neighbourhood dog parks here for what they offer, they have toilets, swimming ponds, free doggie bags, bins, segregation, some of these run zones are hectares, they get reseeded every year, shade sails for your bloody dog to go under, cold water taps in all corners, free bowls....and one has light sensors so you can go 24 hours a day and it opens up for an individual.  Nobody smashes them up, breaks bottles, sets fire to them.  Things like that make it worth living here, it's the quality and pride.

Hit the nail on the head. Australia's politics may still be dominated by the elites, as they are the world over, but the Aussie public generally (in my city at least), still seem to give a damn about each other and the space they inhabit. 

[Blue Flu]

8 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

You mention "the return rate" implying it is high. If you have the statistics to prove it then fine but I doubt the proportion of people who return to the UK from Australia is any higher today than it was during the "Ten Pound Poms" years, I.e. 1.5 million went to Oz, 250, 000 returned to the UK, then half of those 250, 000 went to Oz for a second time,  and most stayed.

 

 

 

Do a little own research and you'll likely stumble on results not to your liking. Ok. Check out 20 May 2016 Boomerang Poms BBC. Nearly half of migration visa's return within five years to UK. 

Even in ten pound Pom times there was a considerable number saving up to repay their assisted passage then returning. I knew a bloke from Stoke on Trent, that was the last remaining of his group of sixteen . Meaning all others returned to UK. He didn't like Australia bit never managed the move back. It's always been high. Never claimed higher today, as simply don't know. 

But if you want to check out the highest nationality to return home, look no further than the Dutch. Something like half went back during the fifties and sixties. Further, I arrived latter part of nineties and few non Australian born we knew from those times, from a collection on nationalities remain in Perth today some twenty three plus years later......

[Blue Flu]

18 minutes ago, armada said:

Hit the nail on the head. Australia's politics may still be dominated by the elites, as they are the world over, but the Aussie public generally (in my city at least), still seem to give a damn about each other and the space they inhabit. 

But Australians (or some) claim that Australia is an egalitarian country with UK having the class system. (some Poms as well) No some countries have a Bill of Rights ensuring the elites do not run rough shot over the rest. This is not a case the world over. Giving a damn, some folk maybe. In my location though more about enriching selves and self preservation. Although I admit appearances may be suggestive of otherwise.