Aged Parent visa 804

[Gemini]

Hi, its New Years Eve here in Yorkshire, the perfect time for reflection & planning ahead (!). Sorry, this is going to be a long post, been pondering these things for several years now.

Our son (only child) & his girlfriend went to Australia on a one year Working/Travelling visa in 2010 and you've guessed it, never came back (except for visits to see family & friends). They have worked hard, travelled all around Australia in a Toyota campervan, saved hard and have finally settled and just bought a house in Brisbane. We are delighted for them and can't wait to come out to see them, fingers crossed for 2021. We've been over to Australia 3 times, have loved it, didn't want to come home & obviously pondered the question of visas but, it wasn't really possible until now, as they've now got PR and a permanent address. 

I've spent many hours in the past reading posts about parent visas and, coming to look at this again, I'm shocked to see how long the processing for CPVs is taking considering how much they cost. Nearly 5 years to process from start to finish can hardly be described as fast track!  We are now at the point where it would be possible to apply for an Aged Parent 804 (husband 67, me 65) even though we don't care much for that name, lol. This is obviously attractive because of the enormous fee difference, we are not wealthy, £50,000 plus for 2 CPVs is a lot of money.  I've not been able to find posts more recent than 2016 about this visa and these are on the PomsinAdelaide section. Am I posting in the right area, does anyone has more recent experience to help with our decision making?

What we know is :- we have to be onshore to apply, that we would only have a temporary Bridging visa for potentially many years and our application could be rejected after many years of waiting. We also know we would need to take out additional health insurance. We have lots of things that we don't know.

The things we are not sure about are:- Income, should we rent our UK house out initially, for more income and as a fall back. Do current 804 applicants live with their families or have they decided to rent somewhere in Australia? How much would be considered a reasonable income to live in Brisbane, how long is a piece of string? I'm currently analysing every bit of our UK expenditure to try to do a more accurate comparison. We live a modest lifestyle, prefer a walk on a beach with a nice lunch to almost any other kind of entertainment. We own the house that we live in, own another house that we rent out, will both have state pensions (know these will be fixed) and small private pensions. So we are thinking in the longer term we will sell both properties, rent somewhere, and live on the capital & our pensions. We would prefer to buy (on the coast, rather than in Brisbane) but are worried about using a large amount of capital & not having sufficient to live on (with diminishing UK state pensions) for possibly 20 years. After 10 years of getting a permanent visa, we understand we might qualify for government assistance if we fall on hard times. Perhaps a better plan would be to buy somewhere & sell it in future if we need to use the capital for income?

Healthcare is another worry. Fortunately, I am in good health, no medications (touch wood), Unfortunately, my husband was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2017. He was in a lot of pain at first but excellent health care now has the condition under control - he currently takes methotrexate by injection weekly. This is on the PBS list but I understand that the RHCA with the UK doesn't cover costs for ongoing health issues such as this, so would we be looking at the full cost, currently around 90 AUD per month? Some posters have said they had got Medicare cards while on the Bridging visa, in which case would this mean paying half that cost? 90 AUD is fine, plus possibly other costs for pain killers when needed,  but coming from the land of NHS & freedom from costs as a pensioner, it makes us feel nervous. None of us plan to be ill but unfortunately, it does happen. We have spent the past 4 winters in Spain (living & travelling in a campervan). He became ill the first winter we went (2016) and that was a very scary experience in a country where you only speak a bit of the language. We had to end our travels early & return home so he could begin hospital treatment. We've been back every winter (until this year) because the cold, damp UK winters mean he is virtually housebound for at least 5 months. In a better climate we are outdoors much more, walking & cycling.

The final consideration is a no brainer. We've missed our son so much, just sharing those everyday experiences like having a meal together, listening to music together etc. you'll know what I mean. My son & husband share so many interests, I feel so sad that they are missing this time together. When we all spend time together it's like we've never been apart. In the 10 years since he went we've dealt with redundancy, illness, caring for elderly parents, unexpected retirement (redundancy by another name) and now feel its our time for an adventure and a different lifestyle. I feel that we will regret it if we don't do it.  We want to be spending more time together in the next 10 years than we have in the last 10 years. My son still has his campervan & we hope to borrow it to see some of Queensland, we don't expect to be living in each others pockets. Have looked into exporting our campervan but that's a subject for a whole other thread!

Thanks for taking the time to read this, it has been useful to me to get this all down. Any thoughts, experiences you can share will be gratefully received.

Wishing you all a Happy New Year! We are hoping to be in Brisbane for NYE 2021. Who knows that may be the start of our Australian journey?

 

 

 

[Wanderer Returns]

Some friends of my parents live in the UK and come over to stay their daughter's family for 3-6 months every year in winter (they have separate accommodation, I believe). They started coming over when they retired and have been doing it for about a decade now. I know they looked at the migration options and decided it was just going to be too long, expensive and stressful. Instead they have used the money they would have spent on the visas enjoying quality time with their family, whilst retaining their lifestyle in the UK. It's worth thinking about.

[Quoll]

3 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Some friends of my parents live in the UK and come over to stay their daughter's family for 3-6 months every year in winter (they have separate accommodation, I believe). They started coming over when they retired and have been doing it for about a decade now. I know they looked at the migration options and decided it was just going to be too long, expensive and stressful. Instead they have used the money they would have spent on the visas enjoying quality time with their family, whilst retaining their lifestyle in the UK. It's worth thinking about.

That is exactly what my parents did for 15 years from 65 - they built a granny flat on our block, arrived in October, played golf and toured the country until March then they went home where they played golf and toured around.  They, too, looked at emigration (I'm an only) but dad had a sister who he didnt want to leave even though she was happily married and it would have been very expensive for them.  They didnt regret it in the least, they had great holidays without the stress.  They had travel insurance for the duration and brought their own medications with them for the period.  They had very little need to access the reciprocal agreement but dad did have a mini stroke one year and was very well treated by the system.  Once they were in their eighties it became more of a chore but talking to them about it while we were caring for them until early this year, they were very happy with the decisions they made - they had a good social network which stood by them to the end and they never regretted not ending their days in Australia.  Of course, it worked out well for them that when they got to nearly 90 we were in a position to be able to retire and look after them in UK, squatting in their back bedroom!

[Toots]

25 minutes ago, Quoll said:

That is exactly what my parents did for 15 years from 65 - they built a granny flat on our block, arrived in October, played golf and toured the country until March then they went home where they played golf and toured around.  They, too, looked at emigration (I'm an only) but dad had a sister who he didnt want to leave even though she was happily married and it would have been very expensive for them.  They didnt regret it in the least, they had great holidays without the stress.  They had travel insurance for the duration and brought their own medications with them for the period.  They had very little need to access the reciprocal agreement but dad did have a mini stroke one year and was very well treated by the system.  Once they were in their eighties it became more of a chore but talking to them about it while we were caring for them until early this year, they were very happy with the decisions they made - they had a good social network which stood by them to the end and they never regretted not ending their days in Australia.  Of course, it worked out well for them that when they got to nearly 90 we were in a position to be able to retire and look after them in UK, squatting in their back bedroom!

My Mum did much the same Quoll.  She loved her long holidays with us but never really thought about coming here to live permanently.

[Wanderer Returns]

23 minutes ago, Toots said:

My Mum did much the same Quoll.  She loved her long holidays with us but never really thought about coming here to live permanently.

My mum came over a couple of times too - although not for quite that long. She loved it over here, but England was her home and she never wanted to leave there permanently. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I found it a struggle adapting to life here in Australia at first and I was in my mid-30s back then. I wouldn't fancy it in my mid-60s, even if I had family here.

[Marisawright]

It is a tough situation.   The bad news is that the processing time for a CPV, if you apply today, is at least 8 years.   The processing time for a 804 visa is 30 years, so you would likely be on the bridging visa for the rest of your lives.  

It sounds like you've discovered that on a 804 visa, you wouldn't be eligible for any government assistance (no pensions, no pensioners' allowances, no healthcare or aged care etc).  The good news is that, provided you're legally resident in the UK immediately before you arrive, you'll be covered by Medicare under the reciprocal agremeent with the UK (nothing to do with the visa).  In theory, that should cover essential services only, but many Brits have found it covers everything that an Australian would get.   Be aware, though, that Medicare is not the same as the NHS.   It doesn't cover everything.   Medications are expensive and specialist appointments can cost hundreds of dollars.

Your British govt pensions would be frozen at whatever the rate is when you arrive.  If you want to buy a property to live in, you'll need to apply for special permission from the FIRB and then pay a surcharge on the purchase price.  On a $500,000 property, that can amount to an extra $40,000 or more.  If you want to leave the country for any reason, you'll need to apply for special permission (a BVB) because your bridging visa does not allow you to leave.

The bottom line is that the Australian government doesn't want parents to come to Australia because of the high cost of healthcare and aged care.    That's why the fees are so high, but even then,  government calculations show they are nowhere near enough to cover what parents cost taxpayers over their remaining years.  They tried to delete the 804 visa altogether once, but couldn't get it through parliament. 

[ramot]

6 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

My mum came over a couple of times too - although not for quite that long. She loved it over here, but England was her home and she never wanted to leave there permanently. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I found it a struggle adapting to life here in Australia at first and I was in my mid-30s back then. I wouldn't fancy it in my mid-60s, even if I had family here.

You might be surprised how many people do/did  settle here in their 60s, we like a lot of people we know did, some with family here and many like us with none. There was a visa that was specifically for people of retirement age, which we and thousands of others came here on. It closed in 2005 to new applications. We retired here and 2 of our children followed us here.

We are the opposite to most posters, as we do the reverse, until this year we have gone to Uk for 3 months every year to see our UK son and our only grandchildren. We love our lives in Australia and have no desire to live in England again. 

[Guest The Pom Queen]

My mum visited for 6 months of the year, done in 2 x 3 month stays, she did this for the first 10 years and looked at moving over numerous times. In the end she said it was too expensive for her with no guarantee of being allowed to remain, this was 7 years ago now so things have changed since then. 
‘Unfortunately my mum is too old to travel now plus the price of travel insurance was astronomical. 

[LindaH27]

@Gemini Also a couple of years or so after applying for 804 and getting a bridging visa you will both have to have Medicals. If you pass you are given a later queue date which is always going to add time to the length of wait! That queue date is the one that determines when they will look at your application - not the date you applied for the visa. It’s heading towards 30 years for 804 grants so you need to be self supporting for all that time. As temporary residents it will cost you more to purchase property.  As other have said you will get Reciprocal health care through Medicare but not full. No cover for aged care costs, ambulance, dentists etc  and legally it’s only for essential and urgent treatment but some have had more than that. Something like - you can have a new hip if you fall and break it but no new hip if it’s just wear and tear and painful. 
Also remember the reciprocal health agreements are simply that. They are not the Law - they are only agreements between Australia and various other countries - and could therefore be terminated at any time. It’s not likely but Australia does not like 804 visas and their corresponding bridging visas. It costs them too much money and as had been previously said - they tried to get rid of it once before. There’s also been talk in Australia recently about the fact that they consider they have too many people on bridging visas - even from the Shadow immigration minister not just the current govt immigration monster. That post has  just had a new man appointed - no idea what he’s like or his opinion on parent immigration yet. 
 

Only just over 600 804s were granted last year too. Most of the 4000 annual parent  grant allowance will be given to those prepared to pay a substantial sum! 

[LindaH27]

OOPS   bad typo in above post - meant “minister” not “monster “  about 6 lines up from the end. Too late to edit post ! 

[Wanderer Returns]

3 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

OOPS   bad typo in above post - meant “minister” not “monster “  about 6 lines up from the end. Too late to edit post ! 

I thought you were referring to the immigration system being monstrous! - it certainly seems that way at times. I wouldn't want to be applying for any kind of visa these days.

[LindaH27]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I thought you were referring to the immigration system being monstrous! - it certainly seems that way at times. I wouldn't want to be applying for any kind of visa these days.

Oh yes - I’m not sure I would have started my journey if I’d known the truth. At time of applying immi website was saying 18-24 months !! I’m 3.5 years in already snd still have another few years to go. Plus they have progressively reduced the number of parent visa grants available from over 7000 a couple of years ago to just 4500 now - and they haven’t met those figures for quite some time. In 2019  the ceiling  was 6000 - they only granted 4300

[Wanderer Returns]

10 hours ago, ramot said:

You might be surprised how many people do/did settle here in their 60s, we like a lot of people we know did, some with family here and many like us with none. There was a visa that was specifically for people of retirement age, which we and thousands of others came here on. It closed in 2005 to new applications. We retired here and 2 of our children followed us here.

Retrospectively I would agree with you. 20 years ago the migration process was more straightforward and the pound was much stronger against the Australian dollar, making retiring here an attractive proposition. My understanding based on your previous posts is that you lived/worked as expats for a number of years prior to moving to Australia, so you were already used to living abroad. Your circumstances are different to someone who has lived all their lives in the UK, and has decided to emigrate at 60+. One only needs to consider how many people retire to France, Spain etc, only to return to the UK a few years later, to appreciate the challenges of migration.

[Marisawright]

34 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

 My understanding based on your previous posts is that you lived/worked as expats for a number of years prior to moving to Australia, so you were already used to living abroad. Your circumstances are different to someone who has lived all their lives in the UK, and has decided to emigrate at 60+. One only needs to consider how many people retire to France, Spain etc, only to return to the UK a few years later, to appreciate the challenges of migration.

That's very true.  For a lot of parents (especially mothers, from my observation), being close to their children and grandchildren trumps everything.  However, I do think that sometimes, parents don't give enough thought to what they're giving up.   I think they're thinking of the holidays they spend in Australia and imagine that's what life will be like - but people make an effort to be available when you're on holiday.  When you're living there all the time, children have their own lives to lead and grandkids have lots of after-school activities in Australia as well as school.

As you say, it's the same for people who retire to France, Spain etc, imagining an idyllic holiday lifestyle for the rest of their days - and then realising they miss their friends and their old life too much.  

I know a couple in  Sydney who moved in their sixties.  They're not going back, because they can't face another international move - but they do wish they hadn't done it.  They had moved to Spain in their retirement and were loving it, with a wide circle of friends and a great lifestyle.  They moved to Sydney to be near the kids, but delays in selling their home meant that by the time they were ready to buy in Sydney, they couldn't afford a nice home anywhere near their children.  They're now settled a couple of hours outside Sydney and they've struggled to make friends there.  The distance from their children mean they only see them at weekends and even then, it's not every weekend.  In fact, they used to see far more of their grandkids when they visited for three months each year, than they do now.  Life is OK, but it's just OK, and they have to watch their money.  Whereas they were having a whale of a time in Spain, with no money worries.   

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Marisawright

[Loopylu]

My parents considered moving here (Brisbane) and paying for the more expensive visa a few years back, but having seen the quality of aged care first hand on visits (my husband is Australian with elderly relations) and the cost of real estate and what they would give up in terms of the beautiful location they live in in Carmarthenshire, access to my sister and her family and their wide circle of friends and the fact they really did not like the extreme climate here,  they thought better of it. 

Unfortunately, I think you are being overly optimistic thinking you will get here in 2021 (unless of course you are extremely wealthy, famous or professionals sportspeople).   My parents have resigned themselves to not seeing us again until 2022. 

However, I wish you all the best whatever you decide to do.

[Wanderer Returns]

2 hours ago, Loopylu said:

My parents considered moving here (Brisbane) and paying for the more expensive visa a few years back, but having seen the quality of aged care first hand on visits (my husband is Australian with elderly relations) and the cost of real estate and what they would give up in terms of the beautiful location they live in in Carmarthenshire, access to my sister and her family and their wide circle of friends and the fact they really did not like the extreme climate here,  they thought better of it. 

Are you implying that aged care in Australia is poorer than in the UK? I'm curious because my wife (who was a care worker in the UK) is currently doing a Cert 3 in Aged Care so she can work over here, but she hasn't started her work placement yet. (And also because I might end up in on of those places myself one day!)

Edited January 2, 2021 by Wanderer Returns

[Loopylu]

Hopefully aged care in Australia will improve now that the Royal Commission has identified how poor it is, particularly in the private sector.  I am sure you will have seen the horror stories on the news.  I have British friends who have worked in this sector in Australia and have left because they found it so depressing how little they could do for the residents due to the low staffing ratios.  My two boys were able to get casual work at Christmas in our church run care/nursing home as activities assistants and, although it is a very well run institution, they still found it quite upsetting to see old people in this environment but at the same time a rewarding experience. The would-be escape artists made them saddest.

My personal view is that more in-home care should be provided by the State where elderly people still have all their marbles but just need assistance due to mobility issues or general frailty.  My grandmother in the UK made it to 101 in warden/sheltered accommodation with daily visits to help with bathing and lunch preparation but when she had to go into a nursing home she soon deteriorated and died.  She literally gave up and stopped eating and the home she went into was brand new, state of the art and there were lots of people she knew through church connections though, of course, most were not contemporaries but the children of her contemporaries... 

Yes, from what I have seen in both countries, I would say that aged care is better run in the UK because there are minimum standards such as staffing ratios which Australia does not have. As with any industry, there are good and bad providers in Australia but the state run institutions seem to get the best ratings.   My Aussie mother in law was in a tiny room in her care home and had to share a bathroom with her neighbour.  She had to remember to lock the door on her neighbour's side to ensure she was not interrupted. The place was very run down and looked like a prison rather than a home (long corridors with several cells on each side).  It was very depressing.  When we visited with our kids the other old people who often had no one just loved to interact with our children.

As my MIL's husband left her with three pre-school kids in the 1960s and provided no financial support she was unable to work and remained poor all her life and so had to make do with what her Aussie State pension would cover in terms of care.  We tried to find her somewhere better but there is a shortage of good aged care for poor people in Australia (as there is also a shortage of affordable homes for those on Newstart/minimum wage).  She begged us to help her leave so we found her sheltered accommodation with meals provided, bought her new furniture, planted up the little courtyard but she had become so immobile and institutionalised in the nursing home (and it was impossible to get funding for in-homecare) and so she ended up back in that horrible place. She didn't last much longer there because the useless GP assigned to the home did not send her for tests for severe headaches and kept diagnosing sinusitis. Eventually she suddenly lost the sight in one eye and was hospitalised but, by then, it was too late. She had a fungus growing and crushing her brain stem and, although the hospital kept saying they would operate they never did and she died suddenly all alone in a hospital bed.  At no time were we advised that she was close to death. A very sad story and one of the reasons I don't want to grow old in this country.

I hope your wife finds a good home to work in and that she enjoys her job and makes a difference to the lives of her residents. 

All the best. 

[Toots]

19 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Hopefully aged care in Australia will improve now that the Royal Commission has identified how poor it is, particularly in the private sector.  I am sure you will have seen the horror stories on the news.  I have British friends who have worked in this sector in Australia and have left because they found it so depressing how little they could do for the residents due to the low staffing ratios.  My two boys were able to get casual work at Christmas in our church run care/nursing home as activities assistants and, although it is a very well run institution, they still found it quite upsetting to see old people in this environment but at the same time a rewarding experience. The would-be escape artists made them saddest.

My personal view is that more in-home care should be provided by the State where elderly people still have all their marbles but just need assistance due to mobility issues or general frailty.  My grandmother in the UK made it to 101 in warden/sheltered accommodation with daily visits to help with bathing and lunch preparation but when she had to go into a nursing home she soon deteriorated and died.  She literally gave up and stopped eating and the home she went into was brand new, state of the art and there were lots of people she knew through church connections though, of course, most were not contemporaries but the children of her contemporaries... 

Yes, from what I have seen in both countries, I would say that aged care is better run in the UK because there are minimum standards such as staffing ratios which Australia does not have. As with any industry, there are good and bad providers in Australia but the state run institutions seem to get the best ratings.   My Aussie mother in law was in a tiny room in her care home and had to share a bathroom with her neighbour.  She had to remember to lock the door on her neighbour's side to ensure she was not interrupted. The place was very run down and looked like a prison rather than a home (long corridors with several cells on each side).  It was very depressing.  When we visited with our kids the other old people who often had no one just loved to interact with our children.

As my MIL's husband left her with three pre-school kids in the 1960s and provided no financial support she was unable to work and remained poor all her life and so had to make do with what her Aussie State pension would cover in terms of care.  We tried to find her somewhere better but there is a shortage of good aged care for poor people in Australia (as there is also a shortage of affordable homes for those on Newstart/minimum wage).  She begged us to help her leave so we found her sheltered accommodation with meals provided, bought her new furniture, planted up the little courtyard but she had become so immobile and institutionalised in the nursing home (and it was impossible to get funding for in-homecare) and so she ended up back in that horrible place. She didn't last much longer there because the useless GP assigned to the home did not send her for tests for severe headaches and kept diagnosing sinusitis. Eventually she suddenly lost the sight in one eye and was hospitalised but, by then, it was too late. She had a fungus growing and crushing her brain stem and, although the hospital kept saying they would operate they never did and she died suddenly all alone in a hospital bed.  At no time were we advised that she was close to death. A very sad story and one of the reasons I don't want to grow old in this country.

I hope your wife finds a good home to work in and that she enjoys her job and makes a difference to the lives of her residents. 

All the best. 

Blimey!  I'll be growing old in this country and very much hope i don't end up like your mother-in-law.  Poor old soul.

I volunteer at a nursing home and I have to say the staff are lovely with the oldies.  None of the people there seem miserable but i dare say there must be some who aren't happy with how they have ended up.  I take a lovely old man in his wheelchair out for a walk.  His daughter brings his ancient dog to see him and so the old dog plods along beside us.  The old chap never says a word but I can tell he's enjoying being out.   There are trishaws to take the oldies for longer trips along cycle paths and beside the sea.  Some of the staff drop the men off at the local pub for an hour and the women get a lift to the local bingo.  

There are a few poor souls with dementia who really take a lot of looking after but the staff have endless patience with them.  

 

[Loopylu]

Toots - thanks for your volunteering efforts. Australia needs more people like you.   My MIL's experience is the tip of the iceberg in some very nasty experiences I have had in my 12 years in Australia but I won't bore you with the details.  However, hopefully this goes some way to explain why I don't like living here and maybe some of the people who have posted some quite hurtful comments in response to my posts might now understand why I don't consider Australia to be paradise on earth.....

I have also volunteered a lot in Australia.  I have assisted children from very deprived backgrounds with reading and mentoring to assist them to grow, prepared statutory declarations for refugees about their experiences (very harrowing) and why they should be allowed to remain in Australia and my latest is as the risk and compliance officer for a small charity that provides overseas aid in the Asia-Pacific region. 

Anyway, I am digressing from the topic of this thread which is aged care. So to return to topic - if you are financially secure, Australia is potentially a good place to grow old provided you can either stay in your own home and pay for the support that you need or find a decent care home.  

Happy New Year Toots!

[Gemini]

8 hours ago, Loopylu said:

My parents considered moving here (Brisbane) and paying for the more expensive visa a few years back, but having seen the quality of aged care first hand on visits (my husband is Australian with elderly relations) and the cost of real estate and what they would give up in terms of the beautiful location they live in in Carmarthenshire, access to my sister and her family and their wide circle of friends and the fact they really did not like the extreme climate here,  they thought better of it. 

Unfortunately, I think you are being overly optimistic thinking you will get here in 2021 (unless of course you are extremely wealthy, famous or professionals sportspeople).   My parents have resigned themselves to not seeing us again until 2022. 

However, I wish you all the best whatever you decide to do.

Thank you for your reply, hope for a visit in 2021 is the only thing keeping me going  We were in Spain in March 2020 when their first stringent lock down took hold. It was made very obvious that foreign visitors should return home, lots of stress around getting return ferries to the Uk because many were cancelled, drove back through France & Spain in 3 days ( we would normally take about a week)and back home to the UK's first lockdown on March 23rd. Been in & out of one lockdown or another since then. My husband has a reduced immune system due to Rheumatoid arthritis medication so it's been home & garden for us for 9 months now. Was fine in the summer but wearing a bit thin now in the winter. 1 degree celsius today!. Our only access to family & friends has been via a computer screen, any activities we're interested in (Yoga for me, playing guitar & ukulele for my husband) is via Zoom. What with Covid & Brexit, it's nearly enough to drive us mad, lol.

[Loopylu]

20 minutes ago, Gemini said:

Thank you for your reply, hope for a visit in 2021 is the only thing keeping me going  We were in Spain in March 2020 when their first stringent lock down took hold. It was made very obvious that foreign visitors should return home, lots of stress around getting return ferries to the Uk because many were cancelled, drove back through France & Spain in 3 days ( we would normally take about a week)and back home to the UK's first lockdown on March 23rd. Been in & out of one lockdown or another since then. My husband has a reduced immune system due to Rheumatoid arthritis medication so it's been home & garden for us for 9 months now. Was fine in the summer but wearing a bit thin now in the winter. 1 degree celsius today!. Our only access to family & friends has been via a computer screen, any activities we're interested in (Yoga for me, playing guitar & ukulele for my husband) is via Zoom. What with Covid & Brexit, it's nearly enough to drive us mad, lol.

I hear you! My husband has Stage 4 Kidney Disease and has recently had a fistula created so that he can go on dialysis as and when his kidney function makes him too unwell. I started to work from home with my employer's blessing and my school age daughter started to study from home in early March before Qld started to lock down in order to protect my husband from Covid. I truly hope you can move here soon to be with your family but just want you to be realistic as the Australian Government has little compassion for family circumstances.  As earlier posters have highlighted, Australia wants young highly skilled foreigners to boost its economy but not their elderly parents.... In my simplistic view of the world, international borders are artificial constructs to keep out perceived undesirables on the basis of colour, religion, wealth, disability and age.  Hopefully your visa application is successful and you can reunite with your family. Get a good immigration lawyer/agent is the best advice I can give you.

All the best!

[Gemini]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That's very true.  For a lot of parents (especially mothers, from my observation), being close to their children and grandchildren trumps everything.  However, I do think that sometimes, parents don't give enough thought to what they're giving up.   I think they're thinking of the holidays they spend in Australia and imagine that's what life will be like - but people make an effort to be available when you're on holiday.  When you're living there all the time, children have their own lives to lead and grandkids have lots of after-school activities in Australia as well as school.

As you say, it's the same for people who retire to France, Spain etc, imagining an idyllic holiday lifestyle for the rest of their days - and then realising they miss their friends and their old life too much.  

I know a couple in  Sydney who moved in their sixties.  They're not going back, because they can't face another international move - but they do wish they hadn't done it.  They had moved to Spain in their retirement and were loving it, with a wide circle of friends and a great lifestyle.  They moved to Sydney to be near the kids, but delays in selling their home meant that by the time they were ready to buy in Sydney, they couldn't afford a nice home anywhere near their children.  They're now settled a couple of hours outside Sydney and they've struggled to make friends there.  The distance from their children mean they only see them at weekends and even then, it's not every weekend.  In fact, they used to see far more of their grandkids when they visited for three months each year, than they do now.  Life is OK, but it's just OK, and they have to watch their money.  Whereas they were having a whale of a time in Spain, with no money worries.   

 

 

Thanks for your replies. It's so hard to know what you might regret later, things you did or things you didn't do. We've spent 4 winters in Spain & it is a very cheap country to live in. Almost bought a house there 2 years ago but it fell through, we were sad at the time but now we're glad it did. I've spoken with many people who've retired to France or Spain, some returned to the UK, some stayed. Many returned because of health issues, it's a massive problem if you don't have a good command of the language and many older retirees never got to grips with learning a new language. Many also had a network of support from family back home which they had moved away from when fit & healthy. Many had a stronger network of friends in Spain so remained even after death of a partner. I think another factor is that many sold up at home, bought somewhere cheap in Spain then couldn't afford to get back into the UK property market. Also properties in France & Spain can take years to sell. All took a leap of faith at some point, thinking it was for the best but none of us know what fate has in store. Even with all the research, it's impossible to really know. We don't have any grand kids, unlikely to ever have any - my son & his girlfriend are 40 this year ( Can I still describe her as a girlfriend at 40, lol? Wish they'd get engaged or married just so I know what to call her).

Our son has lived abroad for 12 years out of the past 15 so we really don't expect to be living in his pocket and know it's not going to be like being on holiday, all treats & meals out. The fear of growing old here and not being able to fly out is what's really driving me on, I think, that and the long wait times for visas. This winter, being stuck indoors has reminded us that we don't want to spend another winter in the UK unless we have to. I have one sister, she has her own life wrapped up in her two adult children & their children, though we have always been there for each other, especially when our dad was suffering from dementia & died 5 years ago. I have friends that I've known a long time but we live in different parts of the country so don't physically see each other for years sometimes. My husband is an only child & has friends made through playing music but no particularly close friend. We both know that to make acquaintances you have to join in with some activity and we know that musicians always gravitate towards each other. In the past four winters living on campsites in Spain (& Portugal) we've had no problems making friendships. My feeling is that it may be better to move when your're a bit younger and able to join in with things, rather than leave it but who knows?

I think your last comment is our main worry - money. We know that Australia is an expensive place to live & our income would be diminishing in real terms, the healthcare implications are scary. So, are we prepared to cash in our capital to have a pleasant lifestyle now? Alternatively, do we want to sit on our capital, expecting to pass it on to our son when we die, unless we have to go into care, then the government gets it! One thing is sure, if we won the lottery tomorrow we would be off to Australia in a heartbeat (when your government allows it, of course)

[Gemini]

On 01/01/2021 at 11:39, ramot said:

You might be surprised how many people do/did  settle here in their 60s, we like a lot of people we know did, some with family here and many like us with none. There was a visa that was specifically for people of retirement age, which we and thousands of others came here on. It closed in 2005 to new applications. We retired here and 2 of our children followed us here.

We are the opposite to most posters, as we do the reverse, until this year we have gone to Uk for 3 months every year to see our UK son and our only grandchildren. We love our lives in Australia and have no desire to live in England again. 

Really interesting to hear this, sounds like you came at a golden time

[Gemini]

22 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

My mum visited for 6 months of the year, done in 2 x 3 month stays, she did this for the first 10 years and looked at moving over numerous times. In the end she said it was too expensive for her with no guarantee of being allowed to remain, this was 7 years ago now so things have changed since then. 
‘Unfortunately my mum is too old to travel now plus the price of travel insurance was astronomical. 

This is indeed my worry. When my husband was first taken ill with Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2016 he was in a great deal of pain & could barely walk so I thought it was the end of being able to fly out to Australia. The thought of being stuck here & never able to come over to see our son was just terrible. My husband's illness is under control due to medication so we are feeling the need to look at all options for the future. Our son would never come back now, the 2008 recession here sent him abroad & he knows he would struggle to find work & the lifestyle he enjoys. Our economy will be totally trashed after Covid & Brexit, he will probably be retired before it recovers. Happy Days!

[Gemini]

19 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

@Gemini Also a couple of years or so after applying for 804 and getting a bridging visa you will both have to have Medicals. If you pass you are given a later queue date which is always going to add time to the length of wait! That queue date is the one that determines when they will look at your application - not the date you applied for the visa. It’s heading towards 30 years for 804 grants so you need to be self supporting for all that time. As temporary residents it will cost you more to purchase property.  As other have said you will get Reciprocal health care through Medicare but not full. No cover for aged care costs, ambulance, dentists etc  and legally it’s only for essential and urgent treatment but some have had more than that. Something like - you can have a new hip if you fall and break it but no new hip if it’s just wear and tear and painful. 
Also remember the reciprocal health agreements are simply that. They are not the Law - they are only agreements between Australia and various other countries - and could therefore be terminated at any time. It’s not likely but Australia does not like 804 visas and their corresponding bridging visas. It costs them too much money and as had been previously said - they tried to get rid of it once before. There’s also been talk in Australia recently about the fact that they consider they have too many people on bridging visas - even from the Shadow immigration minister not just the current govt immigration monster. That post has  just had a new man appointed - no idea what he’s like or his opinion on parent immigration yet. 
 

Only just over 600 804s were granted last year too. Most of the 4000 annual parent  grant allowance will be given to those prepared to pay a substantial sum! 

Just wondering how the Parent 870 visa might fit into this? Sitting out the waiting period while on this visa? Is this even possible?