Aged Parent visa 804

[Loopylu]

17 minutes ago, ramot said:

That’s me on the scrap heap then.Made my day thank you.

Not condoning the governments’ approach. It is appalling. My parents are both in their late 70s and I sincerely hope they (and you) have many more good years. If you read my earlier post about my Aussie MIL, I strongly suspect that the hospital deliberately let her die because she was 77. We don’t need euthanasia laws as hospitals already make these decisions on behalf of the elderly. In my MIL’s case, the hospital would only talk to my husband’s older sister as her attorney and unfortunately she did not hold them to account. Hopefully your spouse or kids will protect your interests if you end up in hospital and are too unwell to fight your own corner. 

[Gemini]

10 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

It’s not now closer to 5 years.  It’s about 10 years if you were to apply now. 

Which visa are you referring to here Tulip1, the 804 or the APCV 864? Are you waiting for one of these visas, if so how long have you been waiting now? The couple I've referred to applied for a 143 visa

[ramot]

3 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Not condoning the governments’ approach. It is appalling. My parents are both in their late 70s and I sincerely hope they (and you) have many more good years. If you read my earlier post about my Aussie MIL, I strongly suspect that the hospital deliberately let her die because she was 77. We don’t need euthanasia laws as hospitals already make these decisions on behalf of the elderly. In my MIL’s case, the hospital would only talk to my husband’s older sister as her attorney and unfortunately she did not hold them to account. Hopefully your spouse or kids will protect your interests if you end up in hospital and are too unwell to fight your own corner. 

Now I’m even more depressed.

[Gemini]

9 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

And even up to 30 years should people  choose to go for 804 !!

I was searching to try to find recent experience of anyone successfully getting the 804 to see how long it actually took. Some posters in the Pomsinadelaide section had said theirs had taken 8 years in total, awarded in 2016 but this was the most up to date post I could find. Maybe I should try another post with that specific question. Maybe once people get their visas they don't come onto the forum anymore?

[Gemini]

I was searching to try to find recent experience of anyone successfully getting the 804 to see how long it actually took. Some posters in the Pomsinadelaide section had said theirs had taken 8 years in total, awarded in 2016 but this was the most up to date post I could find. Maybe I should try another post with that specific question. Maybe once people get their visas they don't come onto the forum anymore?

[Gemini]

9 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

We can’t just opt out of paying tax. Mine gets taken at source, how would you suggest I opt out. I doubt our government want to trap old people in one place as they’re likely to cost the country money to look after them.  I’m sure they’d be quite happy if they manage to bag a visa to live in Australia or anywhere else where the new country takes on that burden of cost.

They could encourage us to leave by not freezing UK state pensions when we do leave :). Pitiful though it is, it still forms a substantial part of retirement income for many. 

[Loopylu]

5 minutes ago, ramot said:

Now I’m even more depressed.

Well if you would prefer not to be forewarned and bury your head in the sand.... It’s your choice. I am just sharing my experience of the treatment of a relatively poor not that old Australian lady. Maybe you have private health cover and the means to pay for decent aged care in which case you will probably be fine.... 

[LindaH27]

16 minutes ago, Gemini said:

I was searching to try to find recent experience of anyone successfully getting the 804 to see how long it actually took. Some posters in the Pomsinadelaide section had said theirs had taken 8 years in total, awarded in 2016 but this was the most up to date post I could find. Maybe I should try another post with that specific question. Maybe once people get their visas they don't come onto the forum anymore?

Once you apply  for 804 you then wait for 2 or more years then you have a medical.  If you pass the medical you are then given a queue date - obviously this is a lot later than your original lodgement date! 

They are now only processing 804 with queue  dates of May 2012! Those people would probably have applied a year or two earlier  

immi website itself says around 30 years! 

Only around 600 were granted last year and that included people on 103 non contributory ( same as 804 but for younger people anc only available offshore) 

Edited January 3, 2021 by LindaH27

[Tulip1]

17 minutes ago, Gemini said:

Which visa are you referring to here Tulip1, the 804 or the APCV 864? Are you waiting for one of these visas, if so how long have you been waiting now? The couple I've referred to applied for a 143 visa

I’m talking about the 143. If you applied for that today you’d be waiting approx 10 years. They dish out 4500 a year and there’s about 55,000 in the queue. 

[ramot]

16 minutes ago, Gemini said:

I was searching to try to find recent experience of anyone successfully getting the 804 to see how long it actually took. Some posters in the Pomsinadelaide section had said theirs had taken 8 years in total, awarded in 2016 but this was the most up to date post I could find. Maybe I should try another post with that specific question. Maybe once people get their visas they don't come onto the forum anymore?

I know of a couple of 804 applicants who were hoping for 2020 or early 2021. Applied from memory 2011/12.? Haven’t been in touch for a while so sorry don’t know the outcome

i last spoke to one couple over a year ago, they were not having any problems living here, I posted about this a year ago. They had no problems with the reciprocal health care and from memory I think one had had a hip replacement, I’ll see how old my posts go back, they certainly had no regrets being here, but a 10 year wait doesn’t really compare to 30 years.

Edited January 3, 2021 by ramot

[Tulip1]

5 minutes ago, Gemini said:

They could encourage us to leave by not freezing UK state pensions when we do leave :). Pitiful though it is, it still forms a substantial part of retirement income for many. 

I don’t think it’s that pitiful. My mum gets almost £900 a month for her state pension. She’s in her 80’s now so she’s had a lot of pension and it’s guaranteed for the rest of her days.

[Loopylu]

12 minutes ago, Gemini said:

They could encourage us to leave by not freezing UK state pensions when we do leave :). Pitiful though it is, it still forms a substantial part of retirement income for many. 

Exactly. My parents identified this as a major issue too. This matter did go to court (if you emigrate to the US or Canada then indexation still applies) but the UK judiciary found in favour of the government... It’s your money and you are not using the NHS but still they try to trap you. 
 
In Australia, you are not allowed to move your superannuation overseas if you decide to return to the UK. For this reason and the fact that Australia will tax you heavily on transfer I have kept my UK private pension fund in the UK. Despite 2008 and Brexit it is still performing well and on a par with my Australian super. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Loopylu

[ramot]

24 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Exactly. My parents identified this as a major issue too. This matter did go to court (if you emigrate to the US or Canada then indexation still applies) but the UK judiciary found in favour of the government... It’s your money and you are not using the NHS but still they try to trap you. 
 
In Australia, you are not allowed to move your superannuation overseas if you decide to return to the UK. For this reason and the fact that Australia will tax you heavily on transfer I have kept my UK private pension fund in the UK. Despite 2008 and Brexit it is still performing well and on a par with my Australian super. 

UK state pension index linked in the USA, not index linked in Canada.Join British Pensions in Australia, a group lobbying hard to get the frozen pensions unblocked for overseas British  pensioners living in the countries that are subject to the frozen pensions.

[Loopylu]

4 minutes ago, ramot said:

UK state pension index linked in the USA, not index linked in Canada.Join British Pensions in Australia, a group lobbying hard to get the frozen pensions unblocked for overseas British  pensioners living in the countries that are subject to the frozen pensions.

No intention of retiring or growing old in Oz. Just working on my escape plan...

[LindaH27]

44 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I don’t think it’s that pitiful. My mum gets almost £900 a month for her state pension. She’s in her 80’s now so she’s had a lot of pension and it’s guaranteed for the rest of her days.

That’s actually very high indeed.  New uk state pension from 2016  is higher than old state pension but is still £175 per week. It’s paid  4 weekly so thats £700 per month!!  

Edited January 3, 2021 by LindaH27

[Loopylu]

4 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

That’s actually very high indeed.  New uk state pension from 2016  is higher than old state pension but is still £175 per week. It’s paid  4 weekly so thats £700 per month!!  

I think there was an option in the past to make extra payments and therefore get an enhanced UK State pension. I imagine this is what Tulip’s Mum did. 

[LindaH27]

30 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

I think there was an option in the past to make extra payments and therefore get an enhanced UK State pension. I imagine this is what Tulip’s Mum did. 

You could only make extra contributions if you were missing some years or you deferred taking your pension for years. 
 

Under the old rules, which this lady would come under if she’s in her 80s  the Max was a lot less. £134
 

It’s possible  that the lady and her husband had good jobs and  built up additional state pension. Or possibly just the husband did and the lady inherited his additional state pension. Or she has attendance allowance or other benefits included in that pension 

Most people I know of in their 70s and 80s  are not getting anywhere near £900 per month. UK pensions are amongst the lowest in the world and many pensioners have to claim additional income support or Pension Credit or Housing Benefit now. But they would lose any extra income support/ pension credit / housing benefit/disabled attendance allowance  if they were to emigrate
 

I think if you had a poll here most  people of pension age would not be getting that much. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by LindaH27

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Gemini said:

Which visa are you referring to here Tulip1, the 804 or the APCV 864? Are you waiting for one of these visas, if so how long have you been waiting now? The couple I've referred to applied for a 143 visa

The waiting time for the 143 visa is now at least 8 years if you apply today.  That's not the official waiting time - however you can easily work it out, by looking at the number of parents already in the queue and the number of visas they grant each year.  

It's disgraceful that Immigration gives a misleading waiting time for the 143 visa. 

The waiting time for the 804 is officially quoted as 30 years. 

[Loopylu]

23 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

You could only make extra contributions if you were missing some years or you deferred taking your pension for years. 
 

Under the old rules, which this lady would come under if she’s in her 80s  the Max was a lot less. £134
 

It’s possible  that the lady and her husband had good jobs and  built up additional state pension. Or possibly just the husband did and the lady inherited his additional state pension. Or she has attendance allowance or other benefits included in that pension 

Most people I know of in their 70s and 80s  are not getting anywhere near £900 per month. UK pensions are amongst the lowest in the world and many pensioners have to claim additional income support or Pension Credit or Housing Benefit now. But they would lose any extra income support/ pension credit / housing benefit/disabled attendance allowance  if they were to emigrate
 

I think if you had a poll here most  people of pension age would not be getting that much. 

My grandmother who died in 1990 used to get the additional means tested supplementary payments to boost her State Pension. She lived quite comfortably on this income. If you look at OECD social security league tables Australia ranks lower than the UK because it either does not have supplementary payments or such payments are lower. If you are unfortunate enough to be poor in Australia then you are forced to merely exist. My MIL was left with $15 a week once her nursing home costs were paid.... As you probably know, the Australian aged pension is means tested unlike the UK or other OECD pensions. Bearing in mind the rich in Australia manage to avoid so much tax, this is probably not a bad thing.

[Tulip1]

57 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

That’s actually very high indeed.  New uk state pension from 2016  is higher than old state pension but is still £175 per week. It’s paid  4 weekly so thats £700 per month!!  

I think it may be that she gets a higher rate because she gets part of what would have been my dads state pension.  She gets £801 every four weeks which is £868pm.  I know many others getting similar amounts so I’m sure it’s to do with a deceased spouse. 

[LindaH27]

3 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

My grandmother who died in 1990 used to get the additional means tested supplementary payments to boost her State Pension. She lived quite comfortably on this income. If you look at OECD social security league tables Australia ranks lower than the UK because it either does not have supplementary payments or such payments are lower. If you are unfortunate enough to be poor in Australia then you are forced to merely exist. My MIL was left with $15 a week once her nursing home costs were paid.... As you probably know, the Australian aged pension is means tested unlike the UK or other OECD pensions. Bearing in mind the rich in Australia manage to avoid so much tax, this is probably not a bad thing.

I understand most Australian get contributory superannuation pensions. The Australian state pension is means tested  so only those struggling would get it. It rather appears to be something similar to UK income support.
 

 Uk state pension is not means tested  but does require contributions via national insurance similar to super payments. Those struggling would be means tested for income support. 
 

So it seems most people pay into their pension and get it topped up with means tested benefits if necessary. Just have different names! 

For comparison 

 
 

[LindaH27]

8 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I think it may be that she gets a higher rate because she gets part of what would have been my dads state pension.  She gets £801 every four weeks which is £868pm.  I know many others getting similar amounts so I’m sure it’s to do with a deceased spouse. 

I’m a  widow too but don’t get that much - I do get part of my late husbands state pension too plus full pension in own right through paying all my contributions. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by LindaH27

[Tulip1]

37 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

You could only make extra contributions if you were missing some years or you deferred taking your pension for years. 
 

Under the old rules, which this lady would come under if she’s in her 80s  the Max was a lot less. £134
 

It’s possible  that the lady and her husband had good jobs and  built up additional state pension. Or possibly just the husband did and the lady inherited his additional state pension. Or she has attendance allowance or other benefits included in that pension 

Most people I know of in their 70s and 80s  are not getting anywhere near £900 per month. UK pensions are amongst the lowest in the world and many pensioners have to claim additional income support or Pension Credit or Housing Benefit now. But they would lose any extra income support/ pension credit / housing benefit/disabled attendance allowance  if they were to emigrate
 

I think if you had a poll here most  people of pension age would not be getting that much. 

I’m sure my mum gets a bit extra because of my late dads state pension. There’s something about that for the older generation. My mum also worked long enough herself to get the full pension. She gets no other benefits as with both her and my late dads work pensions (she gets a good spouse pension still from my dads  work pension) she has a good income. She does get attendance allowance too which isn’t means tested. 

[LindaH27]

1 minute ago, Tulip1 said:

I’m sure my mum gets a bit extra because of my late dads state pension. There’s something about that for the older generation. My mum also worked long enough herself to get the full pension. She gets no other benefits as with both her and my late dads work pensions (she gets a good spouse pension still from my dads  work pension) she has a good income. She does get attendance allowance too which isn’t means tested. 

I

Im in nearly the same position as your mum !   I worked for my own state pension too as well as getting my late husbands state pension. 
 

Attendance Allowance (which I don’t get) is normally  paid as part of the retirement pension though.  It’s not usually paid separately. 

[Tulip1]

3 minutes ago, LindaH27 said:

I’m a  widow too but don’t get that much - I do get part of my late husbands state pension too plus full pension in own right through paying all my contributions. 

Well I promise you she does. I have power of attorney and deal with all her financial affairs and that’s what she gets. She also now gets attendance allowance but that’s a completely separate thing and comes through as a separate payment.  It made no difference at all to her state pension amount.