Worst Nightmare....

[ramot]

57 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

That's funny!  

I haven't used an elevator since all this started. I can't imagine a more effective environment for transmitting the virus than a small, confined, humid cubicle, with a whole load of buttons recently visited by people's sticky fingers!

We have just stayed on the 10th floor at the Mantra, certainly wasn’t going to climb the stairs! I’m very careful, only 2 people allowed in the lift, but we did let one extra in once. There was Hand sanitiser in the lifts. 

[Wanderer Returns]

1 hour ago, ramot said:

We have just stayed on the 10th floor at the Mantra, certainly wasn’t going to climb the stairs! I’m very careful, only 2 people allowed in the lift, but we did let one extra in once. There was Hand sanitiser in the lifts. 

That was probably my wife - that's where she works!  

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

That's funny!  

I haven't used an elevator since all this started. I can't imagine a more effective environment for transmitting the virus than a small, confined, humid cubicle, with a whole load of buttons recently visited by people's sticky fingers!

No choice over the lifts as we are on the 18th floor and the stairs only work going down. I press the buttons using my elbows! Nobody has colds or flu or any other bug, including Covid, it seems.

[MARYROSE02]

24 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

That was probably my wife - that's where she works!  

There is a limit of 8 or 9 in these lifts and the three of them are inadequate for when the hotel is full, as it is now. I do sometimes wait for an empty lift but it's a long enough wait as it is.

[starlight7]

I haven't used a lift since the start of this covid virus but if you live high up there isn't much choice I guess ( heart attack or Covid??). I notice that at Costco they advised you not to use the lifts unless you absolutely had to but they have taken that notice down now. I just wish it was all over now and that they would hurry up and get their fingers out with the vaccines. Until then we are all living under a cloud.

[Parley]

Sometimes i hold my breath if i'm in a lift or close to other people now.

[Wanderer Returns]

21 minutes ago, Parley said:

Sometimes i hold my breath if i'm in a lift or close to other people now.

To be fair, I think most of us were doing that in lifts well before the pandemic!

[MARYROSE02]

17 hours ago, Parley said:

Sometimes i hold my breath if i'm in a lift or close to other people now.

I only do that if they are wearing masks as I assume they are ill.

[starlight7]

7 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I only do that if they are wearing masks as I assume they are ill.

Must be different for you. Everyone wears them here and if you forget you get 'the look'. Half the people even wear them outside as well.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

2 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Must be different for you. Everyone wears them here and if you forget you get 'the look'. Half the people even wear them outside as well.

It sounds like a totally different world down there @starlight7 thank goodness I’m in Queensland. The shopping malls are packed and you would be lucky to see anyone in a mask. 

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

It sounds like a totally different world down there @starlight7 thank goodness I’m in Queensland. The shopping malls are packed and you would be lucky to see anyone in a mask. 

Four young guys came into the cafe the other morning and one was wearing a mask. Why? WHY? As soon as he gets his food how he going to eat it without taking the mask off, and when he does.........He took it off when he came to the counter. He looked odd. I'm surprised his mates wanted him around them.

 I got into the lift and a woman was wearing a mask but her nose was uncovered. I said, "Aren't you supposed to cover your nose as well?" "Yes, but it keeps slipping."

I see a family of four all wearing masks. Why? Are they trying to frighten everybody else? Nobody has had Covid in Surfers Paradise in the five months since I've been here. If there's an outbreak here and "they" order us to do so, well fair enough I guess, even if it is like Chairman Dan causing the problem in the first place. I've not worn a mask once and I am a believer in Covid, unlike friends who say it is all bullshit designed to terrify us.

Edited December 28, 2020 by MARYROSE02

[MARYROSE02]

9 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Must be different for you. Everyone wears them here and if you forget you get 'the look'. Half the people even wear them outside as well.

Everyone in Surfers Paradise gives "the look" to people who are wearing masks. "If you are ill what are you doing here? Go away. You are making us frightened."

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I see a family of four all wearing masks. Why? Are they trying to frighten everybody else? Nobody has had Covid in Surfers Paradise in the five months since I've been here. If there's an outbreak here and "they" order us to do so, well fair enough I guess....

....but by then it might be too late. That's why people are wearing masks.  They're not sick, they've just got more sense.  A Covid sufferer could be anywhere and you wouldn't know it. Most people with Covid have NO symptoms and don't even know they're sick.

Remember, the big Melbourne outbreak happened because ONE family from overseas infected ONE security guard. The family stayed in quarantine and didn't infect anyone else.  But that guard didn't know he was sick, so he went on with his normal life. One person, remember.  The result was over 20,000 cases and 820 people dead.

What's going to happen in Surfers if one person in hotel quarantine infects a cleaner or a guard?  Because everyone has stopped being careful, no one is wearing masks and life is going on as normal, it would explode exactly like the Melbourne incident did. 

The risk is obviously much smaller in regions where there's no one being quarantined.  But Surfers is very close to Brisbane, where there are quarantine hotels, and it's also close to NSW and we all know what's happening in Sydney.  And Brisbanites do travel to other parts of Queensland occasionally.

[starlight7]

I believe they don’t wear them in New South either. I think they are silly because it is a small price to pay. We learnt our lesson the hard way down here and hope no other state has to go through it . It wasn’t pretty. They don’t cure anything but there is a measure of prevention. 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

....but by then it might be too late. That's why people are wearing masks.  They're not sick, they've just got more sense.  A Covid sufferer could be anywhere and you wouldn't know it. Most people with Covid have NO symptoms and don't even know they're sick.

Remember, the big Melbourne outbreak happened because ONE family from overseas infected ONE security guard. The family stayed in quarantine and didn't infect anyone else.  But that guard didn't know he was sick, so he went on with his normal life. One person, remember.  The result was over 20,000 cases and 820 people dead.

What's going to happen in Surfers if one person in hotel quarantine infects a cleaner or a guard?  Because everyone has stopped being careful, no one is wearing masks and life is going on as normal, it would explode exactly like the Melbourne incident did. 

The risk is obviously much smaller in regions where there's no one being quarantined.  But Surfers is very close to Brisbane, where there are quarantine hotels, and it's also close to NSW and we all know what's happening in Sydney.  And Brisbanites do travel to other parts of Queensland occasionally.

I’m sorry Marisa but that is really being over alarmist. There are hardly any active cases in Qld, and of course we hope that doesn’t change, as more people are moving around locally at the moment.

i can only speak for the Sunshine Coast, There is no way I would be wearing a mask presently  here, and we are also close to Brisbane and full of local visitors. Apart from people shopping for bargains in the Plaza, the majority are out in the Sunshine, you have to sign in at cafes, tables still well  spaced.

My daughter had to be tested for covid on the Gold Coast as soon as she arrived from Sydney just before the border closed on Sunday 20th to NSW and queued for 5 hours to get tested, as did thousands of others. That was 10 days ago, don’t think there has been a report of an outbreak since, and no one  has been allowed in from NSW since.

We are all concerned about covid, and realistically there might be another outbreak anywhere no one wants to be in lock down again, , but in the meantime we have to take sensible precautions, but not let a climate of fear dominate our lives.

Edited December 28, 2020 by ramot

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, ramot said:

I’m sorry Marisa but that is really being over alarmist. There are hardly any active cases in Qld

I remind you that there were no active cases in Melbourne before the big outbreak, except in hotel quarantine.   There had been no active cases in Sydney for several weeks before the current outbreak, except in hotel quarantine.   So Queensland, right now, is in exactly the same situation.  If an outbreak happens, you'll have no idea until the infection has been out in the community for at least a week, probably more. How many people will be infected by then, if everyone has stopped taking basic precautions?  

It's good to know people are still socially distancing, signing into venues etc on the Sunshine Coast.   I noticed in another post, you mentioned a limit of 2 people in the lifts.  What alarmed me was MaryRose mentioning 8 people in a lift in his hotel, and seeming to imply there were no real restrictions there any more. 

As for mask wearing - in Melbourne, we only wear them now when social distancing isn't possible, or when we're in enclosed public spaces like public transport and shops (because Covid can concentrate in the air in those places). It horrifies me if people are being made to feel silly for wearing masks in Queensland (by "that look").   What if it's a nurse or a hotel quarantine worker, who's wearing a mask as a sensible precautionary measure (since they're working with Covid sufferers every day)?  What if it's an immuno-compromised person, who knows they'll die if they catch covid, so they feel more comfortable wearing a mask? What a nasty thing to do, to make them feel bad about it.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Marisawright

[ramot]

47 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I remind you that there were no active cases in Melbourne before the big outbreak, except in hotel quarantine.   There had been no active cases in Sydney for several weeks before the current outbreak, except in hotel quarantine.   So Queensland, right now, is in exactly the same situation.  If an outbreak happens, you'll have no idea until the infection has been out in the community for at least a week, probably more. How many people will be infected by then, if everyone has stopped taking basic precautions?  

It's good to know people are still socially distancing, signing into venues etc on the Sunshine Coast.   I noticed in another post, you mentioned a limit of 2 people in the lifts.  What alarmed me was MaryRose mentioning 8 people in a lift in his hotel, and seeming to imply there were no real restrictions there any more. 

As for mask wearing - in Melbourne, we only wear them now when social distancing isn't possible, or when we're in enclosed public spaces like public transport and shops (because Covid can concentrate in the air in those places). It horrifies me if people are being made to feel silly for wearing masks in Queensland (by "that look").   What if it's a nurse or a hotel quarantine worker, who's wearing a mask as a sensible precautionary measure (since they're working with Covid sufferers every day)?  What if it's an immuno-compromised person, who knows they'll die if they catch covid, so they feel more comfortable wearing a mask? What a nasty thing to do, to make them feel bad about it.

I think Victoria made extremely bad , verging incompetent judgment calls,  dealing with the virus. Neither you or I can predict if or when there will be another outbreak. I think 27,000 at the cricket in Melbourne is potentially far more concerning, than worrying about the theoretical escape of an infected passenger in quarantine in Brisbane. So far the few cases of concern have been dealt with efficiently by the tracing system here.

Perhaps the lifts are bigger where M R is? There were covid reminder  signs everywhere where I stayed, hand sanitiser in the lift,  keep social distance, etc. 

I’m not stupid, of course there might be undetected cases everywhere in Australia, but put that in prospective against everyone country wide wearing a mask unnecessarily in places such as Qld, that have seen almost no community transfer cases for months.. there are only 11 active cases in Qld, 5 on the Gold Coast, 6 in Brisbane all in Quarantine. So with those statistics I see absolutely no need to wear a mask, and I am in the vulnerable age group.but I am sensible enough to have not got complacent.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by ramot

[Marisawright]

28 minutes ago, ramot said:

I think Victoria made extremely bad , verging incompetent judgment calls,  dealing with the virus.

There's been a lot of nasty publicity about the mistakes made in setting up hotel quarantine, HOWEVER the fact remains that in spite of all those mistakes, it worked well.   The WHOLE outbreak arose from only ONE family in hotel quarantine.  One.  So it's a media beat-up.  Other states also used private security guards and NSW still allows staff to work on covid and non-covid hotels at the same time, and they've also had the occasional breaches.  

The difference was not in the efficiency of quarantine but in the contact tracing once a breach occurred, which was not nearly good enough in Victoria.  NSW is being held up as the gold standard, so I guess we are going to see if it's enough to get the current outbreak under control.   I don't know what Queensland's contact tracing capability is. 

There has been no community transmission at all in Melbourne for 60 days.  There has been no coronavirus detected in sewage for more than two weeks.  So Victoria is now every bit as safe (or not safe)  as Queensland.   Therefore if you're not worried about large events in Brisbane, you shouldn't be worried about large events in Melbourne.  

Like I said, I only wear a mask on public transport and when I go into a shop. I have my own cloth masks which are comfortable and easy to wear, and I wash it after every wear.  Maybe it's being overly cautious as you say, but who is it hurting?  Why does everyone get so exercised about the idea?

[ramot]

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

There's been a lot of nasty publicity about the mistakes made in setting up hotel quarantine, HOWEVER the fact remains that in spite of all those mistakes, it worked well.   The WHOLE outbreak arose from only ONE family in hotel quarantine.  One.  So it's a media beat-up.  Other states also used private security guards and NSW still allows staff to work on covid and non-covid hotels at the same time, and they've also had the occasional breaches.  

The difference was not in the efficiency of quarantine but in the contact tracing once a breach occurred, which was not nearly good enough in Victoria.  NSW is being held up as the gold standard, so I guess we are going to see if it's enough to get the current outbreak under control.   I don't know what Queensland's contact tracing capability is. 

There has been no community transmission at all in Melbourne for 60 days.  There has been no coronavirus detected in sewage for more than two weeks.  So Victoria is now every bit as safe (or not safe)  as Queensland.   Therefore if you're not worried about large events in Brisbane, you shouldn't be worried about large events in Melbourne.  

Like I said, I only wear a mask on public transport and when I go into a shop. I have my own cloth masks which are comfortable and easy to wear, and I wash it after every wear.  Maybe it's being overly cautious as you say, but who is it hurting?  Why does everyone get so exercised about the idea?

I’ll leave you to have the last word, I can’t be bothered to continue.

[Freemantle]

13 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

It sounds like a totally different world down there @starlight7 thank goodness I’m in Queensland. The shopping malls are packed and you would be lucky to see anyone in a mask. 

The same applies in WA..The last time I saw a mask was at the Royal Perth Hospital having a covid test done, but life carries on as normal here!

[Paul1Perth]

On 23/12/2020 at 17:20, Tmduk said:

Honestly I moved here just over 3 months ago and most Aussies don’t have a clue how bad it is overseas, they are surprised I had to do hotel quarantine. Life has gone on uninterrupted here for the most part. They are even more surprised when I tell them how much we paid for business flights.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised about hotel quarantine, it's been the rules for months now. I think most Aussies do know how bad it is overseas, a lot, like us, still have all the rest of our families in the UK and I think our rellies find it hard to believe that life has been almost normal here for months.

We spoke the the wifes Sister and brother in law over Christmas and, even though we've told them before, they couldn't believe when we said we don't have to wear masks or worry about how many people were in the pub. Our niece lives in Nottingham and they were going to break rules and drive up to take her back to Tolpuddle where they live. She got covid though so had to quarantine in Nottingham.

[Paul1Perth]

On 24/12/2020 at 08:53, Wanderer Returns said:

"Don't get involved in arguments about politics, religion or money" was sound advice my father gave me, which I've generally adhered to throughout life.

If he was alive in 2020, he might well have updated it to 'Brexit, Covid and BLM'. When people feel strongly about a subject, they often become incapable of distinguishing fact from opinion. At that point I find it prudent to bow out of the discussion.

I wish all PiOers a safe and pleasant Christmas wherever you are, and the hope that 2021 will be better for everyone - M.

 

Add political correctness, identity politics and climate change to that list.

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Add political correctness, identity politics and climate change to that list.

except on PIO.

[Paul1Perth]

16 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

It sounds like a totally different world down there @starlight7 thank goodness I’m in Queensland. The shopping malls are packed and you would be lucky to see anyone in a mask. 

Same in WA. 

[MARYROSE02]

I'm not in the "Covid is BS" camp.  Perhaps I should get my brother to post his thoughts. But I'm trying not to live my life in a state of perpetual terror, which appears to be the aim of some in government. If there is an outbreak like the ones in Melbourne and Sydney then I will conform to all the diktats.

If masks work then why aren't we all made to wear them during "normal" flu season? Is it because the death rate from "normal" flu has been deemed low enough not to make us all wear masks.  Flu (and colds) have been almost non-existent this year. For the first time that I can remember, if I make it to 31 December, I have not had a cold all year. 

I just Googled "flu deaths" and these are the figures for the CDC, estimated for winter of 2019/20 - 24,000 to 62,000, 2018/2019, 34,000:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

Now if you tell me that 300,000 have died this year in the USA, fair enough, but how can 24 000 to 60 000 be acceptable enough not to make us all wear masks?

In the mean time I guess I shall trust Anna P (and if I was in WA Mark M) with their hated  hard border closures. I did hate them too when I could not get into QLD earlier in the year but now I'm here, I like them.

My brother has just posed a couple of questions; How many of you wore masks last year during  the flu season, and how many people have died in QLD this year from Covid-19?

I also assumed that the outbreak in Melbourne was down to Chairman Dan's incompetence and corruption, e.g. using a security firm to run quarantine which did even tender for the work. Witness too how "Nobody in government or the Victorian public service bears any responsibility for the debacle." Imagine if a clerk at my level in the public service had broken the tender rules for relatively minor purchasing. "I did not do anything wrong."