newjez Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Home and Happy said: Yes you are totally correct - its down to residency. If you are not registered living at a UK address and registered for tax purposes with HMRC, you are then, a non resident. With the sophistication of the IT system that they will be using to control and enforce the rules, there will be no way around it, as it will no doubt be linked to border entry data and electoral register data. They could easy see instantly who lives here and who doesn't So this dove tails into brexit? Basically brexit will enable them to enforce the loss of rights? Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Home and Happy said: To be honest I am glad the changes have come. We are being screwed over big time by people who don't contribute. I imagine this will cover illegals as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 11 hours ago, calNgary said: They need to issue something like the Medicare card that you have to show every time you visit a hospital or GP ,it would stop a lot abusing the system. However i do think in cases like Ramots something should be accesible, pays UK tax ,owns a UK property ,as paid NI,, all more than some UK residents have ever contributed. Cal x From what home and happy days, a UK identity card is coming after brexit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Tulip1 said: Unlikely, it wouldn't be a loophole it would be fraud. Obtaining something by deception is fraud. No one would accidentally forget to mention they are a non resident, they would choose to not disclose that which would be fraudulent. If they kick the tenants out and move back into their home, then they are resident surely, and it is only a matter of time before they can prove it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 33 minutes ago, Home and Happy said: The sad thing in the case of this couple was they cant afford to pay the bill. I am an Australian travelling in Australia with travel insurance as I am non resident. It's not expensive and it's not rocket science. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, newjez said: If they kick the tenants out and move back into their home, then they are resident surely, and it is only a matter of time before they can prove it? They said to kick the tenants out and stay long enough to get a utility bill and register with a doctor (which would be all of a few weeks) then re let the property and use the doctors when they are back forgeting to mention they'd re let. This clearly means they are talking about living there for a very short time in order to register at the doctors and then returning to Oz (and use the doctors when they are back!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Home and Happy said: The sad thing in the case of this couple was they cant afford to pay the bill. Not sad at all. That's probably why they came here to have it, cheaper they thought than paying to have it wherever they live. They came for a freebie and got caught. They used a service that had to be paid for. They don't live here and they don't contribute so even if they thought it was free (I reckon most people would do a sneaky search to check) they are at best cheeky to expect to get it all off the back of others taxes. Edited March 3, 2018 by Tulip1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 02/03/2018 at 22:25, Home and Happy said: UK ID cards are coming after Brexit.and I am glad they are. No ID card with your home address on it, then you wont have an option except to pay. Even a trip to a GP will cost you. Not paying is not an option now as they are address checking before treatment even now. I think they will take your credit card first. I totally agree with it but I cannot see how it will work in reality. As a civilised, wealthy country there is no way we are going to refuse to offer medical assistance to someone in need regardless of their financial situation. Can you imagine the outcry if we leave poor people to die because they can't pay. Indeed I know in the case of pregnant women we have to offer all necessary assistance without exception. That's why the poor from other countries turn up here on 'holiday' about to drop a baby. They have the baby and return back home. The homes they come from make it clear they are unlikely to afford the food they ate in hospital let alone anything else, still we would have to offer them medical assistance. Not everyone has a credit card to take and few credit cards will have available funds going into tens of thousands. How it will work I just don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 02/03/2018 at 22:29, Home and Happy said: Yes Cal you are spot on there. If you are not contributing you actually have no right to use our NHS. This time it us being applied to everyone. They were talking about this for years and its finally happening. Sooner we get our ID cards, the better. It's residency not whether you contribute or not. Everyone on benefits do not contribute but they are still entitled as they reside here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 2 hours ago, newjez said: I am an Australian travelling in Australia with travel insurance as I am non resident. It's not expensive and it's not rocket science. I do exactly the same when I travel anywhere including to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, newjez said: If they kick the tenants out and move back into their home, then they are resident surely, and it is only a matter of time before they can prove it? We could live at least 6 months a year in our U.K. property and 6 months in Oz, so where are you actually resident. Several posters have mentioned over the years that they plan to do this in retirement. Does 1 extra week in either tip the scales? There are I think 2 different types of residency, either habitually or regular/normal? Think those are the right terms. Perhaps it makes a difference if you own property in both countries? 3 months seems an accepted length of time overseas whe you hear of retirees going to warmer climates over winter without loosing UK benefits etc.? When I lived between Brunei and UK for 10 years, I was actually contacted by someone about my status, I definitely lived between the 2 countries in rented in Brunei and our own house in U.K.(which was never rented out then) I was asked where I lived the most, I replied the UK, it was a moot point, but was told that my answer was good enough so no problem. They took my word for it. On balance it was pretty close some years, but Uk tax paid, national insurance paid, tax council tax always paid plus all household bills for the full year and registered at the Drs. This is all just raising a few points really as we are always covered by insurance these days, and don't expect free treatment in U.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPRINTER Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I think the thing that irks a lot of us that have paid into the NHS via our NI contributions for all our working lives of over 45 years is that we are asked to pay again should we need anything when visiting the UK, we in fact are paying double in that we have travel insurance and have paid full NI contributions. I think we all know that the clever ones that come to use the NHS for free are well versed into how to cheat the system. Lets just hope that Brexit when it is all sorted will stop some of the health tourists. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, SPRINTER said: I think the thing that irks a lot of us that have paid into the NHS via our NI contributions for all our working lives of over 45 years is that we are asked to pay again should we need anything when visiting the UK, we in fact are paying double in that we have travel insurance and have paid full NI contributions. I think we all know that the clever ones that come to use the NHS for free are well versed into how to cheat the system. Lets just hope that Brexit when it is all sorted will stop some of the health tourists. But you havent made 45 years contributions here but do you expect to get Medicare free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPRINTER Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Actually with our particular visa we don't qualify for Medicare here, we have to have private insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, SPRINTER said: Actually with our particular visa we don't qualify for Medicare here, we have to have private insurance. We don't qualify either and have to have private. Sprinter wasnt talking about accessing Medicare. It's all about the NHS. Edited March 4, 2018 by ramot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 On 3/3/2018 at 10:58, SPRINTER said: Just wondering what would happen to a couple who lived and paid into the system all their working lives, so had a full paid up contribution record and then decided to retire abroad, as they have paid in all their lives would they get treatment free. No, and I dont see why they should. If the couple made their decision to retire abroad, then they should've made sure their chosen country has adequate health care, so they don't need to fly back to the UK when they have problems. Remember, if they go back to the UK and become residents again, then they could access care no problem. It's only to stop health tourism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Marisawright said: No, and I dont see why they should. If the couple made their decision to retire abroad, then they should've made sure their chosen country has adequate health care, so they don't need to fly back to the UK when they have problems. Remember, if they go back to the UK and become residents again, then they could access care no problem. It's only to stop health tourism. I have already answered that the answer is no as it applies to us, but in reality we have never actually been charged.Did you have free NHS when you went back to the UK Marisa, if so was it because of reciprocal rights or returning British citizen? If as British did you have to prove you had left Australia? Just interested how the system works. Sprinter was previously asking the question that if you have fully paid everything in UK before retiring elsewhere should you be eligible for the NHS when back in U.K. For a visit, not necessarily flying in specially for treatment. As in our case and others on our visa, even though we don't live in UK now, on a temporary visa in Oz, all our income is from there and taxed there, still own property there, so are British with no rights! Roll on the day our parent visa come through, and then we can have Medicare and reciprocal health rights to the NHS as Australians! Edited March 4, 2018 by ramot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Tulip1 said: I totally agree with it but I cannot see how it will work in reality. As a civilised, wealthy country there is no way we are going to refuse to offer medical assistance to someone in need regardless of their financial situation. Can you imagine the outcry if we leave poor people to die because they can't pay. Indeed I know in the case of pregnant women we have to offer all necessary assistance without exception. That's why the poor from other countries turn up here on 'holiday' about to drop a baby. They have the baby and return back home. The homes they come from make it clear they are unlikely to afford the food they ate in hospital let alone anything else, still we would have to offer them medical assistance. Not everyone has a credit card to take and few credit cards will have available funds going into tens of thousands. How it will work I just don't know. Don't let them in unless they can demonstrate adequate insurance. Wouldn't happen in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Makes me sick though I agree no proof of paying in then you pay full costs whoever you are pity we never read of other foreigners being given hefty bills for services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 8 hours ago, SPRINTER said: I think the thing that irks a lot of us that have paid into the NHS via our NI contributions for all our working lives of over 45 years is that we are asked to pay again should we need anything when visiting the UK, we in fact are paying double in that we have travel insurance and have paid full NI contributions. I think we all know that the clever ones that come to use the NHS for free are well versed into how to cheat the system. Lets just hope that Brexit when it is all sorted will stop some of the health tourists. The government are saying the receptacle agreement between EU members and the UK regarding medical cost will probably still continue after brexit for many reasons including the effect on thousands of ex pats living in the eu will be affected. Many retire to Europe and if they had to pay expensive health insurance to continue living there many wouldn't be able to afford to stay and will return to the uk. If that's the case the health tourists will continue. The ones outside of Europe will definitely still continue as someone coming here to get medical assistance on a holiday visa won't care less if we are part of the eu or not. We are our own worst enemy. I saw statistics on tv not long ago about countries in the EU claiming back from each other. Places like Spain was mentioned and they claim back something like 90% from us for uk citizens needing attention whilst out there. Assume the other 10% are perhaps tiny amounts and not worth the admin. The Uk in contrast claim back about 10%. We just either don't have the resources or can't be bothered. I know of people that have been here on holiday, with insurance and have needed to go into hospital. They have offered their travel insurance details and have been told don't worry, we don't bother with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo-yaa Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) Interested on your thoughts on my situation - with regards to this. Myself and my wife have been living in Oz for 4 years. She recently became pregnant and we both have decided to move back to the UK to have the baby and settle. She is very close to her family and we have decided we want to return to the UK permanently. Its been a tough decision but we dont want to bring up our baby without our family around. There would be no plan to move back to OZ when the baby is born. When we move back, we will be living with her parents until I can find myself a job. At that point we will look to Rent for a short time or buy a house. My thoughts on this is that as we are moving back to the UK to be residents then we would be entitled to full NHS care. Is this the correct assumption to make? Edited May 22, 2019 by boo-yaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, boo-yaa said: Myself and my wife have been living in Oz for 4 years. She recently became pregnant and we both have decided to move back to the UK to have the baby and settle....When we move back, we will be living with her parents until I can find myself a job. At that point we will look to Rent for a short time or buy a house. My thoughts on this is that as we are moving back to the UK to be residents then we would be entitled to full NHS care. Is this the correct assumption to make? You need to be able to prove you have a residence in the UK, and if you're staying with parents then you won't have that. You may have to budget to take on a 6 month rental immediately so you can show you've got a lease, and you can get on the electoral roll which will also help. I don't think it matters how long you've been resident, you just need to prove your intention to live there. If you haven't been paying your Class 2 NI contributions while you've been in Australia, then I'd get on and organise to pay the years you missed. Edited May 22, 2019 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo-yaa Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Marisawright said: You need to be able to prove you have a residence in the UK, and if you're staying with parents then you won't have that. You may have to budget to take on a 6 month rental immediately so you can show you've got a lease, and you can get on the electoral roll which will also help. I don't think it matters how long you've been resident, you just need to prove your intention to live there. Thank you. Funnily enough I just registered on the electoral role last week. My wife is still on it from her Mothers address. I guess you are correct, an immediate rental would show Permanent Residency without a doubt.I will look into that. I will bring all confirmation of closed Oz bank accounts/ Credit Cards / end of rentals from here to strengthen the case that we have left for good. Edited May 22, 2019 by boo-yaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On Saturday, March 03, 2018 at 06:25, Home and Happy said: UK ID cards are coming after Brexit.and I am glad they are. No ID card with your home address on it, then you wont have an option except to pay. Even a trip to a GP will cost you. Not paying is not an option now as they are address checking before treatment even now. I think they will take your credit card first. All that is fine but what if someone who's sick or pregnant and doesn't have the money, what happens then? Surely the NHS can't turn them away? Sounds fair though for non residents to pay. Some people have been taking the mickey for years. I think Aussies would still be covered due to reciprocal arrangements with medicare. Could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 About time the British stopped freezing the pensions of expats whilst we are at it. Shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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