End of free NHS care for non resident Brits

[Home and Happy]

100% British expat couple got hit with £40k bill for birth while IN the UK . 

These two took residency overseas living the good life, came home when the wife was pregnant to have the baby thinking it was their privilege and right to use something which they are not paying into and lo and behold got whacked with a 40 grand bill.  

Apparently now the change is - if you are not paying your NI and are non resident for tax purposes, are no longer on the electoral role and not registered as being resident at a UK address, from now on you are no longer entitled to free NHS treatment.  This covers all expats.

I guess that's only fair and about time we stopped getting screwed by health tourists even if they are British.

 

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Edited March 2, 2018 by Home and Happy

[calNgary]

I agree its only fair if they are billing everyone and not just those who are an easy target. You read many stories of women (not ex pats) travelling into the UK to give birth or for treatment of illness and i do believe they should all be charged a fee. My in laws were talking about (i think) an african lady who was in the media as tv crews apporached her asking her why she didnt pay and she said she was never given a bill. There must be consistency or it will cause problems.

If you move country you should use the medical services in that country not purposely jet off to the UK for something.

Cal x

[ali]

The problem will be that despite being billed - I would imagine very few will actually pay.

[Home and Happy]

if you are resident elsewhere at the time of the birth, the kid wont ever have a right to use the NHS even if he comes back according to the changes.

I am sure anyone who pays income tax, council tax & NI will be agree with it, its only fair.  This is roughly how they determine if you pay or not:

“These charges are determined by residency and those eligible for free treatment need to be living in the UK voluntarily and for settled purposes.

"Eligibility isn't based on nationality. UK citizens who live outside the European Economic Area will need health insurance when visiting the UK."

[bristolman]

I have no problem with this at all, it's commonsense. Apart from genuine A&E cases. 

[Home and Happy]

1 minute ago, ali said:

The problem will be that despite being billed - I would imagine very few will actually pay.

UK ID cards are coming after Brexit.and I am glad they are.   

No ID card with your home address on it, then you wont have an option except to pay.  Even a trip to a GP will cost you. 

Not paying is not an option now as they are address checking before treatment even now.

I think they will take your credit card first.

[ali]

1 minute ago, Home and Happy said:

UK ID cards are coming after Brexit.and I am glad they are.   

No ID card with your home address on it, then you wont have an option except to pay.  Even a trip to a GP will cost you. 

Not paying is not an option now as they are address checking before treatment even now.

I think they will take your credit card first.

The only way to ensure payment is to pay before treatment.  Once you've left (and even left the country) people won't pay unless they're going to continue living in the UK.  

[Home and Happy]

13 minutes ago, calNgary said:

I agree its only fair if they are billing everyone and not just those who are an easy target. 

If you move country you should use the medical services in that country not purposely jet off to the UK for something.

Cal x

Yes Cal you are spot on there. If you are not contributing you actually have no right to use our NHS.   This time it us being applied to everyone.  They were talking about this for years and its finally happening.  Sooner we get our ID cards, the better.

[Guest]

I thought that had long been the case anyways. Only they didn't really always ensure to apply it or check up on peoples residency status when they sought treatment. 

I've read of many on here who move overseas, are no longer tax resident or anything else in the UK but still make use of the system when they go back on holiday (outside of the reciprocal cover). They don't inform their dentist or GP they are no longer resident in the UK and are legally recognised as resident elsewhere but think its ok to do this. Be good to see it applied and the system no longer being played. However, this looks like a one off case and not something being done across the board as standard though I am sure some trusts do try to seek payment. 

Just to mention, I read an article where it explains the baby was premature by 7 weeks and they should have been back in Zambia a good 5 weeks before his due date. It was a holiday and something they had done in the past. However, they did take a risk in flying later in the pregnancy and also leaving it so late to get back to Zambia. However, she had a fit to fly letter and all had been well. 

 

 

[SPRINTER]

Just wondering what would happen to a couple who lived and paid into the system all their working lives, so had a full paid up contribution record and then decided to retire abroad, as they have paid in all their lives would they get treatment free.

[ramot]

We live in Australia and aren't eligible for the NHS when we go to UK every year for about 3 months. We fall between the cracks, not Australian on a long term self funded retirement temporary visa so no reciprocal health care.

All our income comes from UK and we pay our tax in UK, so you could argue we should get free NHS? Not being totally serious, but it raises a point.

when back last year I had a few health issues, explained each time I wasn't entitled to free NHS, had insurance cover, and no where could be bothered to charge me. So you can't always accuse the patient of not paying by my experience at both a hospital and visits to GPs.

 

[Nemesis]

54 minutes ago, SPRINTER said:

Just wondering what would happen to a couple who lived and paid into the system all their working lives, so had a full paid up contribution record and then decided to retire abroad, as they have paid in all their lives would they get treatment free.

Only if they return to live in the UK.

Returning to visit doesn't count, no matter how much NI one has paid, its down to residency. If someone returns to the UK and takes up residency there again, they are eligible for the NHS 

[Home and Happy]

8 hours ago, ramot said:

We live in Australia and aren't eligible for the NHS when we go to UK every year for about 3 months. We fall between the cracks, not Australian on a long term self funded retirement temporary visa so no reciprocal health care.

All our income comes from UK and we pay our tax in UK, so you could argue we should get free NHS? Not being totally serious, but it raises a point.

when back last year I had a few health issues, explained each time I wasn't entitled to free NHS, had insurance cover, and no where could be bothered to charge me. So you can't always accuse the patient of not paying by my experience at both a hospital and visits to GPs.

 

If you have paid sufficient NI for a full UK state pension ie you are 'fully paid up' , you would think, in theory at least there should not be an issue but then again, it is based on where you are resident according to what they are saying here.  The newspapers don't say too much yet as this all just starting to be enforced.

[Home and Happy]

8 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Only if they return to live in the UK.

Returning to visit doesn't count, no matter how much NI one has paid, its down to residency. If someone returns to the UK and takes up residency there again, they are eligible for the NHS 

Yes you are totally correct - its down to residency. 

If you are not registered living at a UK address and registered for tax purposes with HMRC, you are then, a non resident.    

With the sophistication of the IT system that they will be using to control and enforce the rules, there will be no way around it, as it will no doubt be linked to border entry data and electoral register data.  They could easy see instantly who lives here and who doesn't

[ramot]

19 minutes ago, Home and Happy said:

If you have paid sufficient NI for a full UK state pension ie you are 'fully paid up' , you would think, in theory at least there should not be an issue but then again, it is based on where you are resident according to what they are saying here.  The newspapers don't say too much yet as this all just starting to be enforced.

Wonder if we could  "cheat" the system as we still own property in England, so could kick the tenants out, stay long enough to get a utilities bill and register with a GP, then re let the property but use the Dr if needed when back, just forgetting!!! to mention we have re let the property. Wonder if that would work? Obviously not interested in doing that but could be a loophole?

[Home and Happy]

9 hours ago, ramot said:

when back last year I had a few health issues, explained each time I wasn't entitled to free NHS, had insurance cover, and no where could be bothered to charge me. So you can't always accuse the patient of not paying by my experience at both a hospital and visits to GPs.

 

I think you will find that with the changes now being enforced properly and the sophistication of the eligibility screening system that's being put in place, it will be hard to dodge it as a patient,  and impossible, most likely illegal for hospitals and GP surgeries to turn a blind eye. 

Fact is the NHS is at breaking point, I totally see why this is being put in place.

[ramot]

Just now, Home and Happy said:

I think you will find that with the changes now being enforced properly and the sophistication of the eligibility screening system that's being put in place, it will be hard to dodge it as a patient,  and impossible, most likely illegal for hospitals and GP surgeries to turn a blind eye. 

Fact is the NHS is at breaking point, I totally see why this is being put in place.

Not going to be a problem for us as we are responsible adults and never travel without insurance.

The one thing we don't have is the National Health card? think that's what it is called? So if as a resident you should have one, surely it's as simple as no card must pay, like the Medicare card here.

[Home and Happy]

Just now, ramot said:

Wonder if we could  "cheat" the system as we still own property in England, so could kick the tenants out, stay long enough to get a utilities bill and register with a GP, then re let the property but use the Dr if needed when back, just forgetting!!! to mention we have re let the property. Wonder if that would work? Obviously not interested in doing that but could be a loophole?

Maybe, but the sophistication of the screening system will soon work out instantly where you are ordinarily resident. 

And with data sharing between countries such as Oz & UK, it would be pretty obvious where you really live

Your tax records, your border entry data, and you will be on record in both countries as being  resident down under.

If you hold dual citizenship, again that raises an instant question mark.

[Home and Happy]

To be honest I am glad the changes have come.  We are being screwed over big time by people who don't contribute.

[calNgary]

They need to issue something like the Medicare card that you have to show every time you visit a hospital or GP ,it would stop a lot abusing the system. However i do think in cases like Ramots something should be accesible, pays UK tax ,owns a UK property ,as paid NI,, all more than some UK residents have ever contributed.

Cal x

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, ramot said:

Wonder if we could  "cheat" the system as we still own property in England, so could kick the tenants out, stay long enough to get a utilities bill and register with a GP, then re let the property but use the Dr if needed when back, just forgetting!!! to mention we have re let the property. Wonder if that would work? Obviously not interested in doing that but could be a loophole?

Unlikely, it wouldn't be a loophole it would be fraud. Obtaining something by deception is fraud. No one would accidentally forget to mention they are a non resident, they would choose to not disclose that which would be fraudulent. 

[Home and Happy]

6 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Unlikely, it wouldn't be a loophole it would be fraud. Obtaining something by deception is fraud. No one would accidentally forget to mention they are a non resident, they would choose to not disclose that which would be fraudulent. 

The sad thing in the case of this couple was they cant afford to pay the bill.

[newjez]

22 hours ago, Home and Happy said:

100% British expat couple got hit with £40k bill for birth while IN the UK . 

These two took residency overseas living the good life, came home when the wife was pregnant to have the baby thinking it was their privilege and right to use something which they are not paying into and lo and behold got whacked with a 40 grand bill.  

Apparently now the change is - if you are not paying your NI and are non resident for tax purposes, are no longer on the electoral role and not registered as being resident at a UK address, from now on you are no longer entitled to free NHS treatment.  This covers all expats.

I guess that's only fair and about time we stopped getting screwed by health tourists even if they are British.

 

.

Exactly the same in Australia. I can't renew my Medicare card without an Australian permanent address.

Although I do receive reciprocal treatment.

If the couple had been Australian they would have been fine I imagine.

Edited March 3, 2018 by newjez

[newjez]

22 hours ago, bristolman said:

I have no problem with this at all, it's commonsense. Apart from genuine A&E cases. 

Why would genuine A&E be different?

[newjez]

22 hours ago, ali said:

The only way to ensure payment is to pay before treatment.  Once you've left (and even left the country) people won't pay unless they're going to continue living in the UK.  

They could stop you at immigration. Other countries do.