MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi all, I'll keep this as to the point as possible, here it goes: My husband and I met nearly 10 years ago - he had just come back from travelling in Australia and I had visited a few times as I have a sister in Sydney. We both expressed that we would like to live there one day. Roll on nearly ten years later and ...life happened! We got on the property ladder, got married, we have moved into our third home now and we have a 7 year old who is very settled in his school, we have moved to an area that is close to both sets of grandparents who help us out with dropping him off and picking him up. I have a well paid job over here and my husband works in a school round the corner from where we live. Financially, we are stable with equity building in our home and manage-able debts. We live a very comfortable life over here with support from family and able to afford nice things. My husband made a career change around 5 years ago to work in a school for children with special needs. He completed his degree last year with first class honours and specialises in behaviour support. We also have a cat and a dog. The deal is that I have been contacted by a large reputable firm in Sydney and offered a position with a sponsored Visa. I am yet to find out the visa details. I know the salary details and there is a small relocation amount also on offer. If we chose to make the move, here are the things we would have to consider: How would our son adapt? (he would miss his school, friends, karate and football mates) We would have to sell our home to ensure we had back up savings therefore if we decided to come back we would need to rent / keep some savings We have worked out that my take home pay would just about cover our living costs (advice on this would be great as they are estimates): Rent in Sydney (Frenchs Forest kind of way) for $4000 p/m Bills $800 p/m Food for two adults and one child $500 p/m A car on lease $750 p/m travel card for the city $260 p/m [*]My husband would just focus on getting our son settled and then look for work in the local schools [*]We would need to know the process for shipping our dog over after 6 months of being there (he could stay with family until then till we were certain we were staying for a while!) - any advice on this is greatly appreciated [*]We feel it would be too much for our cat to take (stress wise) to get her over [*]If we chose to move, we would be minutes away from my sister .... but half the world away from our parents and our sons friends I know I may sound a little negative about this opportunity - I'm not. I wouldn't be considering this if it wasn't something we wanted and were excited about. It's just that, when it all becomes real, there is so much to consider and feel very anxious about. I don't think we would have thought twice if it was when we first met but we have built such a life here, it is quite a scary thought to say good-bye to that without feeling like you've made an informed decision (...hence me posting on here!) Wow - and I said I'd keep it short! Sorry! If you feel you can help at all, if you've been-there-done-it, if you could give us any perspective or facts - we would be grateful. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My first thought was that this sounds like a temporary 457 visa. If so, you would be risking a great deal with no certainty that this would be permanent. Also a 457 would mean you would have to pay school fees and your husband could be considered a less attractive prospect for employment than if he was PR. Important to find out what visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sounds like a temporary visa to me - in which case wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless you can keep everything intact in UK in the interim - rent out home, take career break etc. If your projections only just cover living then I doubt it's a great salary and you can bet your boots you've underestimated- to the tune of $5k pa at least for school fees. I doubt the 3 of you would get by on $500 a month for food either.. I'm firmly in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" camp, not without a lot of money and security behind you anyway. Oh and if they say "we will sponsor for PR down the track" - there are no guarantees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I agree with the others, if it's only a temporary visa then I wouldn't be selling up in the UK, your husband could enquire about a career break which would offer some safety net if you had to return to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hi all,I'll keep this as to the point as possible, here it goes: My husband and I met nearly 10 years ago - he had just come back from travelling in Australia and I had visited a few times as I have a sister in Sydney. We both expressed that we would like to live there one day. Roll on nearly ten years later and ...life happened! We got on the property ladder, got married, we have moved into our third home now and we have a 7 year old who is very settled in his school, we have moved to an area that is close to both sets of grandparents who help us out with dropping him off and picking him up. I have a well paid job over here and my husband works in a school round the corner from where we live. Financially, we are stable with equity building in our home and manage-able debts. We live a very comfortable life over here with support from family and able to afford nice things. My husband made a career change around 5 years ago to work in a school for children with special needs. He completed his degree last year with first class honours and specialises in behaviour support. We also have a cat and a dog. The deal is that I have been contacted by a large reputable firm in Sydney and offered a position with a sponsored Visa. I am yet to find out the visa details. I know the salary details and there is a small relocation amount also on offer. If we chose to make the move, here are the things we would have to consider: How would our son adapt? (he would miss his school, friends, karate and football mates) We would have to sell our home to ensure we had back up savings therefore if we decided to come back we would need to rent / keep some savings We have worked out that my take home pay would just about cover our living costs (advice on this would be great as they are estimates): Rent in Sydney (Frenchs Forest kind of way) for $4000 p/m Bills $800 p/m Food for two adults and one child $500 p/m A car on lease $750 p/m travel card for the city $260 p/m [*]My husband would just focus on getting our son settled and then look for work in the local schools [*]We would need to know the process for shipping our dog over after 6 months of being there (he could stay with family until then till we were certain we were staying for a while!) - any advice on this is greatly appreciated [*]We feel it would be too much for our cat to take (stress wise) to get her over [*]If we chose to move, we would be minutes away from my sister .... but half the world away from our parents and our sons friends I know I may sound a little negative about this opportunity - I'm not. I wouldn't be considering this if it wasn't something we wanted and were excited about. It's just that, when it all becomes real, there is so much to consider and feel very anxious about. I don't think we would have thought twice if it was when we first met but we have built such a life here, it is quite a scary thought to say good-bye to that without feeling like you've made an informed decision (...hence me posting on here!) Wow - and I said I'd keep it short! Sorry! If you feel you can help at all, if you've been-there-done-it, if you could give us any perspective or facts - we would be grateful. Thanks! I think everyone on here would agree that Sydney is exceptional high cost of living city and without 2 incomes it would be a difficult place to have a good lifestyle, it sounds like you are on the cusp of getting it together nicely here with a decent lifestyle, my view is that for the move to Oz to really work whatever you are moving to has to have quite a lot of pluses over and above what you are leaving behind and it doesn't sound like this is it. Something that catches people out a lot it seems is leaving family and support groups behind. Your figs for outgoings I think are on the lowside for food and have you built in something for having fun which is expensive compared to here, flights and hotels are expensive and motoring is pricey because of distances. Read thro posts on here and learn the wrinkles before you jump, it is definitely not wall to wall sunshine and gold pavements, the Oz government make anybody other than PR migrants pay more than their fair share for breathing the air in Oz. 10 great years out with citizenship and 2 difficult years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks for this insight. I've asked which type of Visa it is so hopefully they'll let me know soon. Appreciate your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Wow thanks for all of this information. Really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I definitely would not move over with a 7 year old given that you have asked the question 'how will he adapt?' unless you are on a permanent visa - or have a very definite pathway to one (& it is quite likely your husband would qualify) The reason I say 'given you have asked the question' is because some people would move their kids without a second thought and wouldn't therefore worry about moving them again if the visa is cancelled or expires. They would treat it as an adventure and consider it 'character building'. And it is quite possible the kind of parents that wouldn't worry about such things raise children who don't either. I can only share my experience moving with a 5 year old (& back again when he was 10) - my son was absolutely against moving to Australia, at 4 we paid no attention to his wishes, he was going to be leaving nursery and starting school anyway & we aimed to be in Australia for him starting school. In the end he did a term in the UK but we were in Perth for the start of P1. I really thought he'd grow up a 'true blue Aussie' and we encouraged him to as it was a permanent move as far as we were concerned. he was very happy, I know he was - he went to a fabulous school, far better than the school he would have gone to in the UK, had great friends (though maybe not as close as in the UK) and had lots of fun but he never truly settled - it was all in his head but he was absolute that he was Scottish (we're not!) and as soon as he could he was moving back to Scotland. At 7 I had him sobbing because I said he couldn't go to university in Scotland. At 9 he wanted to refuse Australian citizenship (not an option!) and we moved back just after his 10th birthday. I was actually far more worried about him moving back - his school really was something special (even in Australia) and he'd had a very sheltered up-bringing - i also thought he was more Australian than he probably thought he was but he slotted straight back in. the first day back in Scotland he went to one of his old friends birthday parties and it was as if he had never been away. He started a new school and being the 'cool Aussie kid' got him off to a fabulous start, in fact o caught up with a mum from his old school recently and it seems he is doing better than a lot of his classmates as they have all moved on to High School now and a lot are struggling. Has it done my son harm moving to and from Australia? I don't think so - if anything it has been 'character building' but do I regret putting him through it? Yes, kind of...although what he gained from his Australian school I believe will benefit him for life. We are citizens now but chose to come back because for us the lifestyle in Perth was definitely not better, possibly worse but maybe just different so there was no point in staying when our friends and family were elsewhere. I love an adventure (hence my avatar!) and always lived by the adage 'better to regret something you did than something you didn't do' but I am a completely changed person now and definitely believe in focusing on what is good in what you already have 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' is my new motto. It does sound like you have a very good life with good support - it's a lot to give up, for what? Better weather? Everything else is pretty much the same and even the weather is debatable. We were two professionals and once the novelty of living in Australia wore off we were not exactly happy longer working weeks, less annual leave, lower salaries (comparatively) and living in a rental felt like we were back to early married life again, except we had a child too and no support! Public sector workers (teachers, nurses etc.) do seem to be better off in Australia though, so with your husband working too it might work out better for you. There is a specific pet sub-forum so if you do decide to go for it you can get good advice there - we left an 18 year old cat with a friend when we moved over but brought an Aussie cat back with us I can't comment on the costs as I've been back two years and lived in Perth anyway, the rule of thumb is though that you will need an income of 2.2x your current income to have a similar standard of living. Don't underestimate the capital that you will need to make the move though & lost income before and after the move. If you don't have a permanent visa I would not sell your house - a work visa can be cancelled at any time and you would have 90 days to move back - there are some challenges getting a rental in the UK in those circumstances especially with a dog! If you really need some capital from your house consider downsizing so at least you have something in the UK to come back to if you need or want to. I understand it is very hard to turn an opportunity like this down - I know we visited Perth, didn't really like it but my husband was offered a job whilst we were there (two in fact!) and we were too scared to say know and live with regrets. Do I think we did the wrong thing? No because we needed the lessons the move gave us! If somehow out of the blue I was offered a job in Canada or NZ or whenever now though I'd definitely say no without thinking about it (I was in fact contacted about a job in the Cayman islands and didn't even consider it!) If you can put your life on hold in the UK and you don't mind some ups and downs with your son along the way it could be a great experience but go in with your eyes open to the costs and risks. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks so much Lady Rainicorn - it's really quite overwhelming the amount of people on here willing to give up their time to post such detailed comments to help a complete stranger out. Really appreciate it. It's so interesting hearing the stories of people who have been-there-done-that. Especially in a similar position (...young child). I'll be taking every one of your comments into account. Thanks again x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 We are making the move with three young children and due to age will be going over on a temporary visa. We are selling our house and for us we would rather have gone and come back ending up in rented accommodation than get to a point where we can't go and wish we had. It is a very personal choice and everyone will think theirs is the right opinion, which it is for them. We are in a slightly different position as we get no support with child care from our families so won't be any different over there. The comments above are correct that if you loose your job you have 90 days to find another or leave. But you may not loose it, or you may get pr. I am on a facebook page for poms wanting to move to Australia and there are a number of success stories of people going over on a 457 and now have pr or even citizenship. If I was in your position I would probably be writing a pros and cons list for staying and one for going. Helps me order my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks Woody - we ave made a start on our pros and cons list. I agree - really good way to try and organise your thoughts. Best wishes with your move! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Just found this : New South Wales and the Australian Capital introduced fees for the children of 457 visa holders in 2011. In New South Wales the fees range between $4,000 and $6,000 per child per year and in the Capital Territories fees range between $9,000 and $14,000 per child per year.12 Aug 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Just found this :New South Wales and the Australian Capital introduced fees for the children of 457 visa holders in 2011. In New South Wales the fees range between $4,000 and $6,000 per child per year and in the Capital Territories fees range between $9,000 and $14,000 per child per year.12 Aug 2013 Yup, $5k pa now for primary age in Sydney (paid up front). WA also charges ($4k?) now too. In NSW there is no guarantee that you will get the school you want either, you may be offered a nearby school if your local school is full. Those are 2013 figures. Dont forget insurances, kids activity fees, medical costs, dental costs, child care (if you both work). Ive been back in UK for 4 years now but back then we spent on average $5kpm on living costs - running two cars, no rent/mortgages, just the two of us with moderately cheap hobbies. I can only imagine it would be more pm now. So if you are on track with rent, transport etc you could splice my figures on and you would end up needing a take home income of around $120k to cover costs. Of course people have moved from temp to PR but many of those were in the past few years - the economic climate is not as rosy now as it was even a couple of years ago and there is always talk of tightening restrictions on temp visa holders to protect local employment. It's much more than writing a list of pros and cons unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'd go with your gut - what do you really want to do? If you want it you will make it work if you don't then it won't. Trying to rationalise a decision like this is the wrong thing IMO as you can end up talking yourself in to a course of action that you may regret later. If you listen to people's stories things have usually gone wrong when they have ignored a gut instinct, even if they don't really realise it. When I met my Australian OH in 1999 I knew he wanted to move back to Australia at some point and I agree we would go 'one day'. For a long time though I didn't really want to go so we stayed in the UK. Then, after about 12 years the time just felt right. Difficult to say why really, we were both just ready, so we got the visa and moved. Financially it was the worse possible time - house prices had dropped and the exchange rate was about $1.4 to the £ but emotionally it was the right time so it has worked for us, even though we don't have anything like as much money as we used to. From your post I'm not sure you really want to move to Australia. If this is the case then don't go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 We moved in June with our 2 children and 3 cats(including a 15 year old cat). We are on permanent visas but have rented house out just in case. While I absolutely recommend life over here, and our children have adapted far better than I hoped, I wouldn't have made the move for a temporary visa. We had great life in UK with both of us earning good salaries. Over here we have comparable salaries and live in Brisbane so cost of living is reasonable. I like that we can still afford day trips and treats for the kids. I am not sure we would have sacrificed everything for the stresses of making ends meet. We have already made a good network of friends but a lot of people find it tough when you have no one else to help out. I am sure that if you decide to go it will work out but think v v carefully. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeOzIsForUs Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Brilliant advice - thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 A child in primary school is the best time to go for a child. At 7 a child will adjust quite easily. When they are in secondary school there are more difficult issues to deal with eg continuity of education, close teen friends etc. So ideal from that point of view. If you definitely want to move to Australia permanently then go for it and work on how to get the permanent visa. As many say, don't get to old age regretting the things you never had the courage to try during your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp77 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 @MaybeOzIsForUs I have had a similar quandary. I married an Australian after we had both done whv. I loved oz but always said I would live in nz. Then met hubby and always agreed one day... Roll on nearly 15 years 3 kids.... 9,8,6yrs old... Always going before they started school. Quandary is - good life here good friends and network. To move to the Other side of the world... But I figure I'd regret it more not trying it. Will miss so many people. I'm lucky I still have both parents who are able to come over but not the same.... Gotta think about my kids and hoping we give them more opportunities and e xperiences ..... We're flying January 4th.... if we didn't go now it will be too late I think. My oldest will still have 2yrs in junior school this way. Big fear of taking the leap but... Here goes... Good luck and do what's right for you all and no regrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 You've received some great advice here - and the main feeling is think 'don't burn your bridges' - I cam over on a temp 457 visa 10 years ago, was lucky enough to be sponsored by my employer for PR and now have citizenship. This was for ICT and my employer made a special case for sponsorship due to my age - we got in by the skin of our teeth!! The employment market is very very different now for IT (my now ex employer are making redundancies) so things can and do change... If it's something you have always wanted to do and can keep your house, take a secondment I think you should go for the adventure.. but have a firm plan in place (you sound like a planner) with review points.. Having children makes things very complicated - we moved over with an 8 year old and a 10 year old who both now wish to stay in Australia as adults (and to be fair, immediate prospects for both of them seem better here than the UK) - Once they approach university age (which may seem a long way away but creeps up..) things can get very complicated indeed.. I absolutely wouldn't sell a house in the UK if I was coming on a temporary visa.... house prices in the big cities here seem outrageously expensive to buy but (relatively to the SE UK anyway) affordable to rent..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Something to seriously consider is your husbands career. He he has obviously worked very hard to get a new career. However, a number of teaching roles in Australia are very over subscribed with many not able to find work. For example, it is very tough for primary teachers. The partners of 457 holders can find it hard to get work at the best of times as companies are wary because they are only temporary and their fate is not in their own hands - if the main 457 holder loses their job, they only have 90 days to find another or all must leave the country. So, how would your partner feel if he can not find work and sees his career disappear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Something to seriously consider is your husbands career. He he has obviously worked very hard to get a new career. However, a number of teaching roles in Australia are very over subscribed with many not able to find work. For example, it is very tough for primary teachers. The partners of 457 holders can find it hard to get work at the best of times as companies are wary because they are only temporary and their fate is not in their own hands - if the main 457 holder loses their job, they only have 90 days to find another or all must leave the country. So, how would your partner feel if he can not find work and sees his career disappear? I didn't pay attention before but just noted that your hubby is a special needs teacher - Just like mine (although he can also teach science and maths). My hubby loves his job but it is not a highly paid career (but this may not matter if you are earning $$$ )- Special needs is supposed to be a shortage subject but in my hubby's school there are a lot of good applicants for special needs posts - with many staff being temporary. Permanent teachers don't give up their posts easily!! Many teachers are recruited on temp contracts to prevent paying holiday pay (which in my opinion is an essential component to make up for a low salary).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I guess you really need to know what sort of visa is on offer before you do anything. Certainly if it is temporary I would just treat it like an extended holiday and keep everything you can without selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Hi there, I've noticed you've budgeted $750 per month for car lease, but you would be better off buying an older car outright and getting by with that if you can. Cars hold their value out there more than here and old cars are in better condition than they are here as there is less salt on the road to rot the underneath. I bought a car for around $3000 and it was still worth that two years later. Costs I never even considered was ambulance insurance! We take it for granted here if we have a medical emergency we can call an ambulance for free, but not in Oz. I do wonder why you would consider a move that would only just about cover your outgoings? Would you give up everything you have and move to another part of the UK to just about cover your outgoings? You have not budgeted for your son's activities on a monthly basis, so his karate and football would be extra costs if he were to continue those activities (unless that's what you've included in your $800 of bills). Pet shipping is quite straightforward but you would need to budget about £1000. I took two cats with me at a cost of £1100 in 2004, but in hindsight would not take my cats if I went again and would rehome them in the UK. They travelled fine, but due to unforeseen personal circumstances the end result was quite sad for them both and it would have been more stable for them to have stayed in England. Personally, I think your son will settle if you and his dad are both happy there. I met several UK families with young children and they all seemed to settle really well and were happy there - even though every one of them didn't want to leave England. I think it's a very British trait to not like or look forward to change! Make sure you read the 'stickies' at the top of the news/chat/dilemmas section about moving with children and the difficulties either you or your husband could face if one of you wanted to return home and the other didn't. That's not something to overlook at all and it's no good crossing that bridge once you come to it! It's something parents both need to know in advance before they leave their home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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