newjez Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 As I said I don't agree with it so you think it's ok ? Havent got any blinkers on For the Irish to put down their guns took a lot. Maybe it's a bridge too far for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It will be no worse or better tomorrow than it was yesterday. ISIS would have loved to massacre in a UK city last week just as much as tomorrow. Your rules of war are irrelevant to them. I'm not talking rules of war, I'm talking objective. Christ knows what the middle East will look like after this latest debacle. Can't we learn some lessons from Iraq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The UN has called on all countries to destroy ISIS. But what happens afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hopefully peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 For the Irish to put down their guns took a lot. Maybe it's a bridge too far for you. Think you you will find that it was the British Givernment that conceded a great deal to get peace . More than happy that it brought peace to a terrible conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yes he is. I was a big fan of his Dad. He was one of the best. A heavyweight in left intellectual thought. I am unsure of the soundness of his son. I'm pretty sure Benn senior would have been against bombing Syria. He would have wizened up Corbyn a little perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hopefully peace. Other words no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 You could have said that about fighting Nazism too. I'm happy to deal with this evil first militarily and work on the political situation later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Is he Anthony Wedgewood Benn's son ? I hadn't realised. Yes, but the apple fell a long, long way from the tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 He was one of the best. A heavyweight in left intellectual thought. I am unsure of the soundness of his son. I'm pretty sure Benn senior would have been against bombing Syria. He would have wizened up Corbyn a little perhaps. One of the best? Get away! A rich hypocrite who pretended to be a man of the people by discarding his title and "posh" name, but he kept all his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 One of the best? Get away! A rich hypocrite who pretended to be a man of the people by discarding his title and "posh" name, but he kept all his money. All a bit over your head I'm afraid. A man of principle. More power to his politics knowing the background he was from. Exactly the intellectual tour de force the left needs to articulate the truth. I realise what in your terms should be a Tory dry, must rankle to read of his leftist stance. Deep down I expect it challenges your assumptions and questions why you of all people find yourself so welded to the right of politics, not really a true home, even if a desired one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hopefully peace. :laugh: Tell us another Parley, you're hilarious!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 All a bit over your head I'm afraid. A man of principle. More power to his politics knowing the background he was from. Exactly the intellectual tour de force the left needs to articulate the truth. I realise what in your terms should be a Tory dry, must rankle to read of his leftist stance. Deep down I expect it challenges your assumptions and questions why you of all people find yourself so welded to the right of politics, not really a true home, even if a desired one. Spot on there. My father is a working class Tory (and on the right of the party with similar views to MR and PC) and he always hated Tony Benn with almost irrational passion and more than anyone else on the Labour Frontbench. Precisely for these reasons I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 He was one of the best. A heavyweight in left intellectual thought. I am unsure of the soundness of his son. I'm pretty sure Benn senior would have been against bombing Syria. He would have wizened up Corbyn a little perhaps. And yet his father, and Hillary's grandad, was an Air Commodore and flew in a bomber crew.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 All a bit over your head I'm afraid. A man of principle. More power to his politics knowing the background he was from. Exactly the intellectual tour de force the left needs to articulate the truth. I realise what in your terms should be a Tory dry, must rankle to read of his leftist stance. Deep down I expect it challenges your assumptions and questions why you of all people find yourself so welded to the right of politics, not really a true home, even if a desired one. I liked Harold Wilson, Barbara Castle. James Callaghan, all people I could relate too, but not Benn. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Spot on there. My father is a working class Tory (and on the right of the party with similar views to MR and PC) and he always hated Tony Benn with almost irrational passion and more than anyone else on the Labour Frontbench. Precisely for these reasons I am sure. Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, not Tony Benn. I'd respect him more if he had kept his proper name and title, but given away his money.He had a loathsome and unctuous voice and manner. Smoked that ridiculous pipe too. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, not Tony Benn. I'd respect him more if he had kept his proper name and title, but given away his money.He had a loathsome and unctuous voice and manner. Smoked that ridiculous pipe too. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Just wondering......but how do you know all about his personal finances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Just wondering......but how do you know all about his personal finances? There is nothing odd, or illegal, about the way that Wedgie structured his will; it's something that all wealthy families do, but with one difference. He claimed to be a socialist and campaigned against this sort of practice. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816554/Benn-s-legacy-hypocrisy-week-revealed-arch-socialist-left-5m-children-none-good-causes-s-just-start-breathtaking-story-riches-tax-avoidance-double-standards.htm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2808862/Tony-Benn-proof-Left-secretly-hate-inheritance-tax-says-DOMINIC-LAWSON.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) It's a peculiarity of how the British define themselves, and how they perceive socialism today. All societies end up with a rich elite, whether they're left or right wing. The British way of thinking is that socialists should be cardie-wearing leftie semi-destitute hippies, and the Tories are cartoon versions of Alan B'Stard, kicking poor people and happy to kill off the elderly as a drain so long as they get a new Jag every 2 years. We see one as preventing wealth, while the other provides it. Neither are true...the wealth will still be exactly the same, just the distribution would be different. It's an oxymoron that a lot of poor British are working class Tories and vote for the party that "promotes" wealth creation because they feel that's the self-righteous pathway to themselves being successful, when in reality that very system will give them less opportunity to become wealthy in comparison to those at the top. They are the Xmas turkey, yet don't realise it. They feel better saying they vote Tory, as if that's a more businesslike thing to do. Similarly, some lefties think that by voting labour, money is going to be taken off the richest and given to them. It won't be, but they will have more opportunity to bridge the wealth gap, but they'll never make up that gap unless they win the lottery. 12 of the 13 wealthiest countries on the planet are socialist, it's not a ideology to prevent wealth creation. The only difference is that in a right wing ideology, they see the richest as having a greater proportion of the wealth and a bigger gap to the poorest at the bottom thus making them stronger than the weak at the bottom of the social ladder, and they're happy to take more from the poor to make that gap get bigger. Socialism means that everybody should be "equally free to thrive", so they try and close that gap by preventing discrimination across society. It doesn't mean that everybody will be equal, and nor could that ever happen. It was Orwell who famously said, "some are more equal than others" when describing socialism/communism. Socialism doesn't mean that people shouldn't be free to make as much money as they like and use the same rules to their advantage through being as "equally free to thrive" as everybody else, that's why we have rules that everybody can take the same advantage of so long as it's within the law. Fidel Castro is worth more than the Queen, and that bastard Blair is worth £100million. They would both class themselves as socialists, trying to prevent discrimination. Edited December 3, 2015 by Slean Wolfhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 And yet his father, and Hillary's grandad, was an Air Commodore and flew in a bomber crew.. Is that somehow relevant, besides both being great men in their own ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 There is nothing odd, or illegal, about the way that Wedgie structured his will; it's something that all wealthy families do, but with one difference. He claimed to be a socialist and campaigned against this sort of practice. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816554/Benn-s-legacy-hypocrisy-week-revealed-arch-socialist-left-5m-children-none-good-causes-s-just-start-breathtaking-story-riches-tax-avoidance-double-standards.htm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2808862/Tony-Benn-proof-Left-secretly-hate-inheritance-tax-says-DOMINIC-LAWSON.html He didn't claim, he was a great socialist. The same Daily Fail, headlined 100,000 plus Russian ground troops for Syria. Give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Anthony Wedgewood-Benn, not Tony Benn. I'd respect him more if he had kept his proper name and title, but given away his money.He had a loathsome and unctuous voice and manner. Smoked that ridiculous pipe too. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk No you wouldn't. No matter what he'd done your mind was made up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Is that somehow relevant, besides both being great men in their own ways. Well yes, it's obviously relevant. You said his dad would have been against bombing Syria and questioned the soundness of his son. But his Grandfather probably wouldn't have minded, seeing as that was his job and he flew aeroplanes as a member of a bomber crew. Perhaps Tony would have been the one who's soundness might have been questioned ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well yes, it's obviously relevant. You said his dad would have been against bombing Syria and questioned the soundness of his son. But his Grandfather probably wouldn't have minded, seeing as that was his job and he flew aeroplanes as a member of a bomber crew. Perhaps Tony would have been the one who's soundness might have been questioned ? Well his grandfather having been involved in a 'real war', with clear objectives and recognised enemy may well have objected. I do believe the majority of British people are not in favour of the bombing campaign. Every chance he would have been one of that majority, that being the case. Anyway all rather academic as we'll never truly know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 He should he's a prick:wink: I love how the right always indulge personal attacks on those they disagree with,play the ball not the man, is it because they fail to understand the arguments or simple do not want to be bothered to even try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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