flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Far enough. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk In no sense could the Blair government be called Left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thank God we have the BBC; for now. But the BEEB is "owned" and funded by the government of the day, unlike SKY so the Tories must be truly Machiavellian, exercising control via media they do not own, whilst pretending to allow an alernative viewpoint via the media they do own. Why didn't Goebels and Stalin do this? Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 As Colin Powell said you won't win a war in the air. You do have to send the troops in to actually win the war. BTW. Britain didn't fight in Vietnam did they ? Maybe they were needed. The US tried to fight a conventional war against a guerilla army. Remember those first concentration camps the British created to strangle the Boers' supply lines? The Americans were ironically not brutal enough. Imagine how the Nazis would have fought it. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The US tried to fight a conventional war against a guerilla army. Remember those first concentration camps the British created to strangle the Boers' supply lines? The Americans were ironically not brutal enough. Imagine how the Nazis would have fought it. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk What are you talking about??? Not brutal enough. Do you know anything with regards to the issue you discuss?? It would appear not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 But the BEEB is "owned" and funded by the government of the day, unlike SKY so the Tories must be truly Machiavellian, exercising control via media they do not own, whilst pretending to allow an alernative viewpoint via the media they do own. Why didn't Goebels and Stalin do this? Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Before you belittle the effect of the media, you do remember Murdoch backed Blair's campaign? You could even ask who is governing the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I guess the question we need to ask ourselves is; how will we feel when they put a British or Australian pilot in a cage and set fire to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Before you belittle the effect of the media, you do remember Murdoch backed Blair's campaign? You could even ask who is governing the country. Rather Rupert Murdoch telling Blair what to do than the TUC telling Wilson what to do. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I guess the question we need to ask ourselves is; how will we feel when they put a British or Australian pilot in a cage and set fire to him? Enemy forces have always been brutal towards POWs at times. Look at the Japanese and the SS during WW2. And we put our own soldiers under arrest for war crimes. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Rather Rupert Murdoch telling Blair what to do than the TUC telling Wilson what to do. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk You want a phone tapper running the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You realise he is 84 years old ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Enemy forces have always been brutal towards POWs at times. Look at the Japanese and the SS during WW2. And we put our own soldiers under arrest for war crimes. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Doesn't explain how you would feel. Or how you would feel when they bomb a hospital and create another hundred suicide bombers. I think the word your searching for is 'responsible'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You want a phone tapper running the country? Better than those useless Communists who used to run the unions in the 60s and 70s. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Doesn't explain how you would feel. Or how you would feel when they bomb a hospital and create another hundred suicide bombers. I think the word your searching for is 'responsible'. You want us to have a foreign policy dictated to by foreigners? If we don't do what they want they will bomb us? Yes we bombed a hospital and the Americans admitted it was a horrible mistake, but what about the terrorists who also bomb hospitals and schools because they object even to humanitarian help and or educating girls. What if the terrorists object to us supporting Israel or playing cricket in Dubai or even we do in our own country. According to your rules if we doubt do what they want they can bomb us. But it works both ways. If they attack us we can terrorise them if you subscribe to your rule that every action is subject to another action. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 What did Churchill say about democracy? Something about it being a horrible way to govern but when you think about the alternatives....... And you never offer any alernative and practical models of government either, just lambasting the existing system. How about naming just one country with a style of Govt you would like to move to, adopt for us? Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Err, France, still with mass circulation left wing newspapers and Communist politicians, Germany, especially, where the unions are mandated onto company boards and firms have long term plans which do not concentrate on short term dividends to investors, any of the Nordic countries where govt acts in the best interests of its citizens rather than a ruling clique or vested interests, the Netherlands where the Queen lives quite a proletarian life without all of the trappings that the English royal family seem to insist on. That's just for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Err, France, still with mass circulation left wing newspapers and Communist politicians, Germany, especially, where the unions are mandated onto company boards and firms have long term plans which do not concentrate on short term dividends to investors, any of the Nordic countries where govt acts in the best interests of its citizens rather than a ruling clique or vested interests, the Netherlands where the Queen lives quite a proletarian life without all of the trappings that the English royal family seem to insist on.That's just for starters. You are welcome to move to any of them if you think they are better than Britain, but they all have their problems just below the surface. The Dutch monarchy is not the same as the British monarchy. Their way is not better nor worse, just different. France and Germany are republics which in my opinion is an inferior mode of Govt. Where would you prefer to live? Canada or the USA? Germany does have a superior way of integrating labour and capital and is the only country where I would vote "Labour" ie SPD. They are all democracies at heart so my position stands. Name me a superior alternative to democratic Govt. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You want us to have a foreign policy dictated to by foreigners? If we don't do what they want they will bomb us? Yes we bombed a hospital and the Americans admitted it was a horrible mistake, but what about the terrorists who also bomb hospitals and schools because they object even to humanitarian help and or educating girls. What if the terrorists object to us supporting Israel or playing cricket in Dubai or even we do in our own country. According to your rules if we doubt do what they want they can bomb us. But it works both ways. If they attack us we can terrorise them if you subscribe to your rule that every action is subject to another action. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk I think what you are expressing is a symptom of imperialism where other nations are seen as subservient to the dominance of the west and have to learn to do as they are told and that is how it has been for the last 250 years, well unfortunately we are now reaping the whirlwind resulting from those attitudes, trying to bomb them back into subservience is simply not going to work, I do not have a solution for the present situation but bombing alone is not going to do it without ground forces to occupy and hold the ground won from bombing and we have all seen how successful that was in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, there will have to be some accommodations to move forward from where we are and it will require real sacrifices from all including the US giving up on its blind support for its vassal state Israel. Don't forget most of the seeds for these conflicts were the carving up of the spoils of war in 1919. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You are welcome to move to any of them if you think they are better than Britain, but they all have their problems just below the surface. The Dutch monarchy is not the same as the British monarchy. Their way is not better nor worse, just different. France and Germany are republics which in my opinion is an inferior mode of Govt. Where would you prefer to live? Canada or the USA? Germany does have a superior way of integrating labour and capital and is the only country where I would vote "Labour" ie SPD. They are all democracies at heart so my position stands. Name me a superior alternative to democratic Govt. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk They all have one great advantage which actually makes their democracies actually properly representative democracies and that is that their media, TV and print, is not dominated by right wing paranoid meglomaniacs, why do you think that public broadcasters like the BBC are under constant attack, because they tell the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You realise he is 84 years old ? Yes, but he is again looking for another younger wife to boost his flagging ego and often paranoia becomes more intense as one ages and there is no one willing or able to tell you that your world view is faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Better than those useless Communists who used to run the unions in the 60s and 70s. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Better the Communists tan the self aggrandising union machine men that run the labor party in Aus, whose only thought is to perpetuate the stranglehold of the so called "trades" on Aus society and its economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Ah, but will they be allowed to shoot down Russian planes? Depends which side we're on, are we bombing the FSA, ISIS or the Syrian army? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I think what you are expressing is a symptom of imperialism where other nations are seen as subservient to the dominance of the west and have to learn to do as they are told and that is how it has been for the last 250 years, well unfortunately we are now reaping the whirlwind resulting from those attitudes, trying to bomb them back into subservience is simply not going to work, I do not have a solution for the present situation but bombing alone is not going to do it without ground forces to occupy and hold the ground won from bombing and we have all seen how successful that was in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, there will have to be some accommodations to move forward from where we are and it will require real sacrifices from all including the US giving up on its blind support for its vassal state Israel. Don't forget most of the seeds for these conflicts were the carving up of the spoils of war in 1919. Reaping the whirlwind, eh? I was just thinking those were the words used by Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris weren't they in justifying the RAF's bombing of Germany? They have sowed the wind, i.e. bombed Britain. And according to your theory that bombing creates bombing back and / or terrorism, then that is exactly what happened to the Nazis. Other countries are not subservient to the West, but they are "inferior" in the sense they have never modernised their economies, never democratised their governments, never reformed their religions and brought them all up to the 21st century. 250 years ago, the USA did not even exist, and they, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand were all born of British imperialism. At earlier times in their history, all the former western imperial powers were at one time the victims of other countries' imperialism, invasion and colonization, e.g. The Roman Empire, The Holy Roman Empire, The Ottoman Empire, The Austro-Hungarian Empire. You want the USA to ditch Israel and leave it to the mercy of the rest of The Middle East in order to make the West allegedly safe® from terrorism? As it happens, the Israelis can take care of themselves, as they have proved in every war they have been involved in. They might have used Western arms but they did all the actual fighting themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Better the Communists tan the self aggrandising union machine men that run the labor party in Aus, whose only thought is to perpetuate the stranglehold of the so called "trades" on Aus society and its economy. Left of the Labor party or right who cares as long as they are not in Govt. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Better than those useless Communists who used to run the unions in the 60s and 70s. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Why does everyone fear moving back to the 60s and 70s. Those days have gone. They won't be back again. They're like the 40s and 50s. It's two generations away. Move on. We will never reproduce those times no matter what government you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You want us to have a foreign policy dictated to by foreigners? If we don't do what they want they will bomb us? Yes we bombed a hospital and the Americans admitted it was a horrible mistake, but what about the terrorists who also bomb hospitals and schools because they object even to humanitarian help and or educating girls. What if the terrorists object to us supporting Israel or playing cricket in Dubai or even we do in our own country. According to your rules if we doubt do what they want they can bomb us. But it works both ways. If they attack us we can terrorise them if you subscribe to your rule that every action is subject to another action. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk No, I want a foreign policy controlled by the implications of that foreign policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Left of the Labor party or right who cares as long as they are not in Govt. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Better dead than red and a red immigrant under every bed seems to be the summation of your fears MR and it feels to me like that is destroying your faith in humanity.. Israel simply cannot exist without the economic and political support of the US and it is that unquestioning support which allows Israel to behave in an ever more belligerent and intransigent way towards its Arab neighbours and which poisons arab relations with those it sees as always supporting Israel in those attitudes and actions. Edited December 1, 2015 by BacktoDemocracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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