Australia the new Greece?

[MancGeek]

Interesting article in the UK Telegraph:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/11749706/Commodities-crash-could-turn-Australia-into-a-new-Greece.html

 

 

As an IT specialist, I've had my visa for a couple of years but not made the move (currently in North West UK). The changing exchange rate and relative slump in the economy compared to the UK means I'd have to charge a day rate of almost $1500 to equate to my standard of living in the UK. Rates on offer at the moment are around half that so am going to be staying in the UK for the foreseeable future.

 

Interesting to think what the effect could be on migration rules and overall net migration figures over the next few years....

[srh82]

This article appears to be a tad sensationalist in the title, but it does provide good perspective on why times are a bit tougher here now than when I arrived in 2012.

[MancGeek]

Admittedly most articles are pretty sensationalist nowadays, click-bait appears to be a viable marketing strategy for a lot of news organisations. It does hint at the perfect storm scenario though which I can see creeping up. When I got my visa a couple of years ago the exchange rate wasn't much over 1.5, now it's 2.1 That's a 40% appreciation in less than 3 years. Add in the commodities market tanking, the dangerous levels of debt being run up by national governments, the property bubble and the fact that Oz didn't get hit by the GFC in the same way as the rest of the developed world and you can see a re-balancing taking place, either slowly over time or via a sudden correction...

 

As it stands I see my visa now as a working holiday option so I can have a cheap 3 months or so over in Oz during the UK winter rather than a viable option for migration.

[Paul1Perth]

There's more to "standard of living" than cash ManCGeek. I'm from Manchester too and I guess in the same profession. I worked for Ferranti in Manchester for a few years after I'd finished my degree and lived in a nice place near Stockport. What we have here though isn't available in the UK, no matter how much money you have. Most of it is free too.

[srh82]

MancGeek, do you realise you have 5 years until your travel facility on your PR runs out?

 

I see see where you are going - who knows what the future holds. We have a house in the UK if things markedly deteriorate. At the moment, there are things here that money can't buy: the outdoors lifestyle suits us.

[Skyba]

It's all relative, you won't get on is Australia if you constantly compare the prices to the UK and your wages because the exchange rate is moving. If you can afford your life in Australia with your earnings then that's all that matters. Australian goods aren't set by the UK exchange rate, obviously imports etc will be effected but they aren't going to be changing on a daily basis. if you could afford to live in Australia 6 months ago with the wage being paid then the fact that you equivalent wage in the UK will be less that's not going to make a massive difference to living in Australia.

 

I think if you live in another country and consistently compare your wages to what it would be in the UK you'll go mad, also if your decision on migrating is solely based on money then maybe Australia isn't the place to go

[MancGeek]

Yep I'm aware of the 5 year limit then it's RRV time. Strategy in place for that around making sure i have firm enough ties to obtain an RRV as and when I need it.

 

I'm also aware that there's more to life than cash, but the change in relative economic strengths would be a £40K a year difference between UK and there. That's more than just a small difference. The strength of the UK economy has meant that the earning potential over here now is pretty crazy if you have the right skills in the right areas (I'm into Data Platform and Business Intelligence skills with added Cloud platform). If I work my ass off for the next 2.5 years and come over just before the 5 year travel facility expires the difference in $ I will be able to bring over the 5 years I've delayed will be the better part of half a million due to exchange rate changes and increased earning power in the UK. Worth delaying the quality of life for that 5 years as it'll mean I can probably retire before 50.

 

The UK economy means I've also been able to pay off my mortgage in 4 years and own my house outright. That's my backup plan in case any move to Oz doesn't work out.

 

Money doesn't buy you everything. Having said that though, a fiscal strategy based on sound economics and optimising your earning potential alongside a backup plan buys you peace of mind and gives you options. Anyone who went to Oz 2-3 years ago and decides / has to come back now is going to find the overall process damned expensive.

[silencio]

Yep I'm aware of the 5 year limit then it's RRV time. Strategy in place for that around making sure i have firm enough ties to obtain an RRV as and when I need it.

 

 

 

I've never heard of any 'firm ties' from a PR holder who has never lived in Australia.

 

You can call yourself lucky to get a 3 months RRV after the 5 years travel facility expires.

 

Nobody can assume what the law will be when you decide to come over here as there might not even be the option for an extension as RRV regulations underwent a lot of (negative) changes in the past few years.

 

Could be that DIBP will abolish all these 1 year or 3 months renewals anyway (besides for spouses of Australian citizens who will always get one) who knows as RRV was tightened in 2012 and new changes can happen any time. So don't be too confident regarding a RRV.

[duffer34]

Im a director of a global recruitment business and things are tough and going to get tougher gone are the days of big $$$$'s big correction on the way i move back to uk at the end of the year

[MancGeek]

Yep I'm aware of the 5 year limit then it's RRV time. Strategy in place for that around making sure i have firm enough ties to obtain an RRV as and when I need it.]

 

I've never heard of any 'firm ties' from a PR holder who has never lived in Australia.

 

You can call yourself lucky to get a 3 months RRV after the 5 years travel facility expires.

 

Nobody can assume what the law will be when you decide to come over here as there might not even be the option for an extension as RRV regulations underwent a lot of (negative) changes in the past few years.

 

Could be that DIBP will abolish all these 1 year or 3 months renewals anyway (besides for spouses of Australian citizens who will always get one) who knows as RRV was tightened in 2012 and new changes can happen any time. So don't be too confident regarding a RRV.

 

 

Acknowledged, things change all the time. RRV strategies "can" include demonstration of personal assets that are "substantial and of benefit to Australia". So potentially owning a couple of properties there (outright) and employing a management agency for them could be construed in that fashion.

 

I've also got other backup strategies, I can qualify for a new 189 Visa (subject to the usual issues with occupations staying on the list etc) for another 9 years until I'm 45. IELTS is a doddle to get all 9's and I'm maintaining valid ACS assessments every 3 years (due to update the current one this year) so I can move on a new application at short notice if needs be.

 

I guess to summarise, there's never a "best" time to move, but the current economic and monetary situations are seriously dissuading a lot of people from making the move for the moment. Having longer term migration strategies is never a bad thing as economic cycles can change the landscape quickly in either direction.

[Bungo]

 

 

As an IT specialist, I've had my visa for a couple of years but not made the move (currently in North West UK). The changing exchange rate and relative slump in the economy compared to the UK means I'd have to charge a day rate of almost $1500 to equate to my standard of living in the UK. Rates on offer at the moment are around half that so am going to be staying in the UK for the foreseeable future.

 

Interesting to think what the effect could be on migration rules and overall net migration figures over the next few years....

 

The Australian economy is not in a slump, but it is tighter than in previous years and unemployment has risen. Those are factors which I think any potential migrant today needs to consider carefully.

 

However your deduction that this and the exchange rate means you need a higher daily rate makes no sense whatsoever. If you have a job you have a job, why would a fluctuation in the unemployment rate mean you need higher rate? Do you demand a higher rate in the UK as unemployment rises? Likewise why would the movement in exchange rate make any difference, do you think Aussies have all demanded salary increases because the GBP:AUD has shifted? Have you ever looked for a pay increase in the UK due to changes against the Euro or American dollar?

[newjez]

Yep I'm aware of the 5 year limit then it's RRV time. Strategy in place for that around making sure i have firm enough ties to obtain an RRV as and when I need it.

 

I'm also aware that there's more to life than cash, but the change in relative economic strengths would be a £40K a year difference between UK and there. That's more than just a small difference. The strength of the UK economy has meant that the earning potential over here now is pretty crazy if you have the right skills in the right areas (I'm into Data Platform and Business Intelligence skills with added Cloud platform). If I work my ass off for the next 2.5 years and come over just before the 5 year travel facility expires the difference in $ I will be able to bring over the 5 years I've delayed will be the better part of half a million due to exchange rate changes and increased earning power in the UK. Worth delaying the quality of life for that 5 years as it'll mean I can probably retire before 50.

 

The UK economy means I've also been able to pay off my mortgage in 4 years and own my house outright. That's my backup plan in case any move to Oz doesn't work out.

 

Money doesn't buy you everything. Having said that though, a fiscal strategy based on sound economics and optimising your earning potential alongside a backup plan buys you peace of mind and gives you options. Anyone who went to Oz 2-3 years ago and decides / has to come back now is going to find the overall process damned expensive.

 

 

Well done, that's a good field to be in. Eastern states may pay better.

[bristolman]

Interesting article in the UK Telegraph:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/mining/11749706/Commodities-crash-could-turn-Australia-into-a-new-Greece.html

 

 

As an IT specialist, I've had my visa for a couple of years but not made the move (currently in North West UK). The changing exchange rate and relative slump in the economy compared to the UK means I'd have to charge a day rate of almost $1500 to equate to my standard of living in the UK. Rates on offer at the moment are around half that so am going to be staying in the UK for the foreseeable future.

 

Interesting to think what the effect could be on migration rules and overall net migration figures over the next few years....

 

Yes it's clear the economy is in a bit of a slump and the rising unemployment put pressure on wages, by the sounds of it you are one of those who would quite frankly be silly to make the move. Money isn't e erything by any means but Australia is an expensive place and you would certainly notice the difference at those figures quoted.

[Rallyman]

What is your main reason for coming to Australia ? , by the sounds of it you are doing very well in the UK financially , if it's solely to earn more if I was in your position I would be staying put , if you have other reasons money will not be important but going by your posts I think it's financially driven .

Best of luck in what ever you chose.

[newjez]

 

 

Acknowledged, things change all the time. RRV strategies "can" include demonstration of personal assets that are "substantial and of benefit to Australia". So potentially owning a couple of properties there (outright) and employing a management agency for them could be construed in that fashion.

 

I've also got other backup strategies, I can qualify for a new 189 Visa (subject to the usual issues with occupations staying on the list etc) for another 9 years until I'm 45. IELTS is a doddle to get all 9's and I'm maintaining valid ACS assessments every 3 years (due to update the current one this year) so I can move on a new application at short notice if needs be.

 

I guess to summarise, there's never a "best" time to move, but the current economic and monetary situations are seriously dissuading a lot of people from making the move for the moment. Having longer term migration strategies is never a bad thing as economic cycles can change the landscape quickly in either direction.

 

 

When the Australian dollar is high, it's attractive for asset poor with high earning potential. When Australian is low, it's more attractive for asset rich, wages aren't as attractive.

 

Save for a couple of years and then go and plunder!

[srg73]

Sorry my tongue hurts from biting it!

 

What a pathetic post. If your so wrapped up in money then chase the rising economies around the world, I can recommend maybe Cuba just at the moment, a great country full of great people about to be flooded with American money and tourists.

 

We left very good jobs in UK (I was comfortably a 40% tax payer) and yes I earn less in Brisbane however my lifestyle does not compare. You only live once and having no children means money is less important.....who would I leave it to? (Orderly que please). I believe you may have other reasons for not wanting to go and are using financial excuses. Believe me moving to Australua is not cheap, is not easy and yes may result in you earning less but at least you can look back in years to come saying that you gave it a go and did not lead such a shallow financially driven life. The big difference is that you maybe sat back sipping on a cheap white SA wine rather than quaffing Champagne.

 

Underlying the Australuan economy is China and their money. The Chinese culturally do not trust their banks as much as the Western world and therefore invest in physical goods ie property, gem stones, gold etc etc. At the moment Australua is a sound investment unlike their stock market which is bloated. UK is following Australia's path but has the added pressure of Eastern Europe also wanting to invest in London hence why prices have gone mad. The Chinese are wise investors generally and are certainly not fleeing Australia yet.

 

S

 

As most will know I am right leaning politically and reading back I can't believe I have typed this! Where's my Margerat Thatcher books gone...

[MancGeek]

 

What a pathetic post.

 

 

 

Cheers for the insult, all view points welcome. However if all you fancy doing is slating me then feel free to f*ck off and keep your opinions to yourself.

 

 

Cheers to all others for their viewpoints, has helped to crystalise my thoughts on the options. Will be canning the move for the moment. The declining economy, outlook for China and hugely increasing Australian budget deficit are probably not good indicators for the next 3-5 years.

[Southchick]

"IELTS is a doddle to get all 9's"

 

love it

[Bungo]

 

Cheers to all others for their viewpoints, has helped to crystalise my thoughts on the options. Will be canning the move for the moment. The declining economy, outlook for China and hugely increasing Australian budget deficit are probably not good indicators for the next 3-5 years.

 

I honestly think the days of moving to Australia for financial gain are long gone, especially if you are already earning well in the UK, no matter short term fluctuations in the economy. Australia has also had that period of soaring house prices, similar to that occurring in the UK in late 90s. It is no longer possible to (say) sell the two bedroomed terrace in UK and buy a four bed 2 bath with a pool for a steal in Aus and then have lots left over for general living.

 

We have just returned to the UK and I have said on PIO that a major reason was that it provided us with financial security we could not obtain in Australia, but which I wanted as we approach middle age. So I don't want to be a hypocrite and declare that money does not matter, but if money were the only thing that mattered to us, we should never have gone in the first place. Must have spent £50k just moving there and back and then had more financial outgoings / less disposable income whilst we were there. However we think it was worth the extra cost for the great life experience we had. We went for an adventure, to explore that side of the world and to experience living in a different country. We got that and were prepared to pay the price.

 

You do sound like money is your prime consideration, which I won't criticise because a lot of pleasurable things in life do cost money. But I think you may be hard pressed to find any time when the move is going to make pure financial sense.

[Slean Wolfhead]

Cheers for the insult, all view points welcome. However if all you fancy doing is slating me then feel free to f*ck off and keep your opinions to yourself.

Cheers to all others for their viewpoints, has helped to crystalise my thoughts on the options. Will be canning the move for the moment. The declining economy, outlook for China and hugely increasing Australian budget deficit are probably not good indicators for the next 3-5 years.

 

Australia isn't right for everyone, it's a cultural change. There are some high earners here and $1500 per day is attainable in IT, we have people on up to $350 per hour depending on the specialism.

We've found that the squeeze and cuts haven't affected much at all....if you're good enough then the skills are actually more in demand. You might get 6 months instead of a year, but that would make somebody that's more flexible more desirable...as a migrant you're likely to be flexible in your outlook and not holding out for the perfect deal in your own backyard, or forced back to a hometown you didn't really want to go back to.

However i stress, you need to come here for the right reasons and the lifestyle is different to the UK. If you want that lifestyle, then money isn't everything...you just earn it, invest it and forget it.

Lots of free stuff, walking, swimming, relaxing, making yourself healthy and forgetting the rat race of London. We prefer that to the UK for a few years and can't see a reason to move back yet, economy or no economy. We're still ahead overall. It's quite laid back and quality of life and being able to enjoy it is paramount. It's a skill to be able to slow down.

[MichaelP]

Doesn't surprise me - Australia has been in denial about its reliance on China consumption of resources for a decade. Now that China is switching away from coal and diversifying its food suppliers, Australia won't have it easy any longer. Government has spent two years crying wolf about a Budget emergency. Now they face a very real one. Australia should be investing in the products and services that countries like China want. I've just been in Guangxi province, China, and every new apartment is installing solar.

[PotterL115A3]

Cheers for the insult, all view points welcome. However if all you fancy doing is slating me then feel free to f*ck off and keep your opinions to yourself.

 

 

Cheers to all others for their viewpoints, has helped to crystalise my thoughts on the options. Will be canning the move for the moment. The declining economy, outlook for China and hugely increasing Australian budget deficit are probably not good indicators for the next 3-5 years.

 

MancGeek, considering the economy and the financial aspects before making a move to another country makes perfect sense. Many people base their decisions on feeling rather than facts, the dream of coming to Australia for most means that they often don't want to hear any negatives so I commend you on that. I've heard so many people here pull out the "lifestyle is more important than money" card so many times, it's as if they have put all their eggs in a basket and need to keep shouting about it until they believe it themselves.

[srg73]

Cheers for the insult, all view points welcome. However if all you fancy doing is slating me then feel free to f*ck off and keep your opinions to yourself.

 

 

Cheers to all others for their viewpoints, has helped to crystalise my thoughts on the options. Will be canning the move for the moment. The declining economy, outlook for China and hugely increasing Australian budget deficit are probably not good indicators for the next 3-5 years.

 

As the saying goes, compliments cost.

 

Seriously, the nature of your post confirms you are unlikely to succeed in Australua as Australians strongly believe the British are egotistical, arrogant and unwilling to change. You always must remember you are in their country and home and therefore you must change culturally as well as geographically. POM, the Royal Family, Europe, history, taking jobs etc all used against you when here.

 

Only a few people increase their earnings significantly, most stay about the same, some drop however generally compensate in other ways, especially with their families.

 

Tear into me as you wish, I don't care at the moment as my mind is back in the UK with my family after shocking news.

 

S

[Chortlepuss]

As an IT worker, I refused to cost the move in 2007 - you don't move here for money, and in Brisbane for job opportunity. It is a very different workplace and you may find your skills not so much in demand here - Had no problem finding IT work in UK, in Qld it really is who you know and it can be challenging to make that shift when you have previously been in high demand! We are moving back to UK - hopefully next year as despite earning decent $ we are keeping our heads above water, and cost of living plus insecurity of job market makes it too much of a pain at our age. If I was you, I'd milk that high paying contract for all its worth which will give you a greater buffer when you're out here... I don't really understand the economy here - lots of brand new shopping centres, restaurants full to the brim, every man and his dog has an investment property , lots of brand new cars - a real feeling of prosperity up till now but somehow it feels that things are turning a corner (jobs hard to come by, huge availability of rentals, quite a few shops with no customers etc...)

[newjez]

As the saying goes, compliments cost.

 

Seriously, the nature of your post confirms you are unlikely to succeed in Australua as Australians strongly believe the British are egotistical, arrogant and unwilling to change. You always must remember you are in their country and home and therefore you must change culturally as well as geographically. POM, the Royal Family, Europe, history, taking jobs etc all used against you when here.

 

Only a few people increase their earnings significantly, most stay about the same, some drop however generally compensate in other ways, especially with their families.

 

Tear into me as you wish, I don't care at the moment as my mind is back in the UK with my family after shocking news.

 

S

 

You must understand that not everyone visits Australia for keeps. Some just do it for a couple of years for a change in lifestyle. If you are doing it for an extended working holiday, then surely you must understand that people will also want to do it when it is the most financially advantageous. Why wouldn't you?