What's a liveable wage in Southeast UK?

[BacktoDemocracy]

Thanks for all you're comments. We have got some massive choices to think about.

 

One of the things I worried about before we moved overseas was not being able to afford to come back. Seems my concerns may have come true. For those of you thinking of moving from the UK, be sure you don't want to return, if you're not sure, rent your house out. That's what we should have done, even though at the time we were making what I thought was a permanent move. We had a lovely 3 bedroom house in a nice part of Hemel Hempstead. The irony is I couldn't afford to buy it back now.

 

To get an idea of what we can expect to pay, I am looking at rentals in areas outside the M25, from Bedford down to Basingstoke. I am willing to have a big drive to work because I know if we moved to Sydney or Melbourne, where I could get a job in one of our offices tomorrow, I would expect to have a big commute in either of those cities and ridiculous rent or a huge mortgage especially Sydney. Moving within Australia is not an option though because it wouldn't solve any homesickness issues, in fact I think it would be a backwards step as I'd be even more unhappy. At least we have a good life here in Brissy right now.

 

Once we know where we want to settle we would sell our house in Brisbane and hopefully buy a house in the UK. I just didn't want to make the same mistake of burning our bridges in Australia if we decided to come back, which to be honest is unlikely. I don't think we could take the stress of ping ponging.

 

My wife would need to get a job, I know that. My daughter would also be employed as she'd be nearly 19 by the time we came over. She may go into further education but she'd still need a job.

If we could have a combined gross income of say, 48,000 pounds pa, how much difference would that make?

 

I sympathise hugely with you, does it have to be the SE, any chance of a job elsewhere, property outside the SE is cheaper, could you take this job and then get out of the SE.

Also consider that your daughter would have to pay International student rates for any courses in the UK, even FE courses which are ridiculous prices now.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I say go where your heart is. Yes it will be a struggle. If you are going to do it then sooner rather than later, certainly look at renting out your house in Brisbane until you are absolutely sure you have done the right thing. Also look into NHS, I think you have to fit the residency requirements before being entitled to NHS treatment, although you will get medical care that is considered urgent and necessary treatment. Also if your kids want to go to college or uni you have to be living in the UK for a period of time before being entitled student loans. Have you looked at any of the house swap websites. There maybe even people on here who would consider a house swap for a period of time!

I grew up in Basingstoke, my family still live there, I think it has changed lots since I left home 20 years ago. (For the better!)

No problem with the NHS as you are British with a brit passport

[BacktoDemocracy]

It sounds risky to me too!!

 

I would continue to contribute to my Super in Australia. I have checked that I can do that. Although I'd appreciate any info on the tax implications of doing that.

 

Once we sold our Brisbane property we'd have a deposit to put on a house in the UK so we could at the earliest opportunity get back into the UK market. Our plan eventually is to move to the Southwest so even if we bought an affordable place down there, rented that out, while we rented a place closer to my work. Hopefully we wouldn't be refused a mortgage due to age.

 

I'm not under any illusion it won't be a struggle to begin with. Of course it will but my main concern is that we won't be in deep s**t financially from the moment we land in Britain.

Getting a mortgage here now is much more difficult than ever and you really need to investigate whether you would qualify, you would have no credit rating and no proofs of outgoings which is a pre requisite now and you would only get a short repayment period, you need to speak to a mortgage broker here and get the bottom line on how they see it.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Because my wife is a New Zealand citizen, we need to sort out a Spouse Visa for her so she'd have to stay here, meaning we couldn't sell the house and have access to the proceeds until we know she has a Visa. We have some savings that would be available for me to get a car etc. It would be tight though, I certainly wouldn't be driving the sort of car I have now.

 

Sitting here in my cushy job on the Gold Coast, looking out the window to blue skies and despite the cold snap, mid winter temps 20 degrees tomorrow, I do wonder whether I'm being completely irrational in wanting to disrupt my family's life to return to the place I was so eager to leave 13 years ago.

 

I sympathise but this is a very different country to 13 years ago and if you do not have a fair sum to make the transition and you have to get spouse visa as well with all the costs involved with that then you may need to go back to the drawing board.

personally I found Qld a bit backward, parochial and insular, that will get me a load of grief on here I know, but it might be about looking at a move to somewhere else in Aus which is a bit more cosmopolitan.

Property here is bloody expensive if you want to live somewhere decent , we are in ipswich in a smallish 4 bed detached with 125ft garden in a niceish rd and that is valued this week at 450k

[pommekate]

British passport does not entitle you to automatic NHS treatment. If you have lived outside the uk for greater than 3 months in one year or 6 months in total you have to pay. However as the OP is planning on staying in the UK and will be able to prove permanent residency then shouldn't be a problem.

[bristolman]

British passport does not entitle you to automatic NHS treatment. If you have lived outside the uk for greater than 3 months in one year or 6 months in total you have to pay. However as the OP is planning on staying in the UK and will be able to prove permanent residency then shouldn't be a problem.

 

We were away 12 years and didn't have to prove residency and received treatment immediately. Having said that we are rural and things are different in the country lol

[BacktoDemocracy]

British passport does not entitle you to automatic NHS treatment. If you have lived outside the uk for greater than 3 months in one year or 6 months in total you have to pay. However as the OP is planning on staying in the UK and will be able to prove permanent residency then shouldn't be a problem.

Thank god nobody had told my GP, somebody who had not been indoctrinated by the present xenophobia.

[newjez]

British passport does not entitle you to automatic NHS treatment. If you have lived outside the uk for greater than 3 months in one year or 6 months in total you have to pay. However as the OP is planning on staying in the UK and will be able to prove permanent residency then shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

Australian passport does at any hospital, but you will pay at the to.

[ramot]

I have a British passport, live in Oz on a retirement visa, so no Medicare here and not entitled to NHS when in UK on holiday, as no reciprocal, and not lived in UK properly for 22years.

All our income comes from UK, state pension etc. pay UK tax.

So no not everyone with a British passport is entitled to NHS. Fact.

 

the above is relevant to visiting UK not returning to live.

[Chortlepuss]

You would pay tax on rental profits to ATO and need to do a tax return in Oz if renting house out. As you are not resident you will not get a personal tax allowance and you cannot offset any losses by negative gearing. How much equity do you have in Brisbane home? Could you re-mortgage it to release $ to buy a UK home, plus the increased interest on your mortgage would offset any earnings?

We rent in Brisbane, own a property in UK and have to pay tax here - cheeky as none of that income generated in Australia. We would be better off having a mortgage on the property to offset income and thus reducing tax liability.

[Quinkla]

So no not everyone with a British passport is entitled to NHS. Fact.

 

the above is relevant to visiting UK not returning to live.

Yes - entitlement to NHS care is based on residence, not nationality or taxes paid in the past. To be eligible, you need to be ordinarily resident. This is not a tightly defined concept, but basically it means living in the UK and expecting to be living in the UK for more than 6 months continuously. You need to have a visa or passport that would permit this and evidence of an address. But you are entitled to NHS treatment from the day you move back provided the intention is to stay for more than 6 months. There is no qualifying period, and no penalty if your plans change and you leave earlier than expected. I know this - determining eligibility used to be my job.

[frostie]

We were away 14 months come back & entitled to full nhs. Kids now getting braces fitted (2 kids) child benefit was reinstated when I called them with out return date. They paid it straight away. Don't forget that will give you approx £110 extra per month. We live in the south east just by gatwick. If you have any questions or need any help on prices etc in this area feel free to send me a pm.

Jobs are easy to come by where we are so hopefully your wife shouldn't have a problem getting a part time job or full time if that's what she wants. Check out the job centre jobs & reed employment.

[Marisawright]

This graph may be of interest to you, it shows the comparative cost of living within commutable distance of London in various directions.

 

What it tells you is that unless you have a very strong reason for living South of London, you need to go north,young man - it is hugely more affordable.

London Commuter Towns.pdf

London Commuter Towns.pdf

[Rainman]

This graph may be of interest to you, it shows the comparative cost of living within commutable distance of London in various directions.

 

What it tells you is that unless you have a very strong reason for living South of London, you need to go north,young man - it is hugely more affordable.

 

Thanks for the graph, very useful and thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments - what a fantastic resource for information this website is. Just wish I'd found it 13 years ago!

 

 

Unfortunately due to my area of work, I'd be tied to working in London for a few years at least until or if we can get ourselves established back in the housing market and as residents of the UK. The ultimate plan is eventually to move well away from the southeast, possibly to Dorset but maybe Devon or Shropshire but somewhere more affordable. This is why I thought we could rent to begin with while I'm working in London. Once we're settled we could then start looking for the place where we actually want to live 10 years from now.

I have so many scenarios in my head as to how to achieve living back in the UK but each one seems to hit a financial roadblock along the way.

I had hoped to rent our house out in Brisbane until we're settled in the UK but I don't want to end up paying tax on any profit we make from renting it out, we couldn't afford that or end up paying a huge chunk in CGT because we'd be non resident owners when we sold the property.

It doesn't help that my wife would have to remain in Australia for at least 6 months while I sort her Spouse Visa out.

 

Because I would be doing an interoffice transfer from my Firm on the Gold Coast to the London office, therefore staying with the same company just relocating internationally (sounds so straightforward), if I was to get a continuation of service how would that affect the need to be working for at least 6 months to be eligible for a Spouse Visa and would it help in getting a mortgage etc?

[Quinkla]

TBH @Rainman, I think you need to ask yourself what exactly you are trying to achieve. Moving from a comfortable existence on the Gold Coast, financially secure and your kids presumably having friends - to moving them around the world where they won't feel any sense of belonging. If you keep coming up against financial stumbling blocks, it's because your plan is financial suicide.

 

I understand about your parents, but someone I know moved from London to Melbourne to be with his parents, they were both dead within a year, he lost his job, lostall his money and is now in his 50s, has been unemployed for nearly two years and is staying with his sister. In the process he uprooted his family and lost them too.

[Quinkla]

Sorry - just read your post more carefully and a couple of things leapt out at me:

 

Once we're settled we could then start looking for the place where we actually want to live 10 years from now.

You are almost 50. You can expect to live for another 20 years, perhaps. And you're going to spend half of that living somewhere you don’t want to be, dreaming of better things in the future. Believe me, at 50, you should be living where you want to be already.

 

It doesn't help that my wife would have to remain in Australia for at least 6 months while I sort her Spouse Visa out.

So you would be maintaining two households for 6 months. That's a big ask, especially if you are worried about whether or not you can even survive on your wage in Britain.

If I was to get a continuation of service how would that affect the need to be working for at least 6 months to be eligible for a Spouse Visa and would it help in getting a mortgage etc?

You badly need to take independent professional financial advice and probably migration advice.

[newjez]

I have a British passport, live in Oz on a retirement visa, so no Medicare here and not entitled to NHS when in UK on holiday, as no reciprocal, and not lived in UK properly for 22years.

All our income comes from UK, state pension etc. pay UK tax.

So no not everyone with a British passport is entitled to NHS. Fact.

 

the above is relevant to visiting UK not returning to live.

 

 

Can you take Australian citizenship or are there visa restrictions?

[Rainman]

TBH @Rainman, I think you need to ask yourself what exactly you are trying to achieve. Moving from a comfortable existence on the Gold Coast, financially secure and your kids presumably having friends - to moving them around the world where they won't feel any sense of belonging. If you keep coming up against financial stumbling blocks, it's because your plan is financial suicide.

 

I understand about your parents, but someone I know moved from London to Melbourne to be with his parents, they were both dead within a year, he lost his job, lostall his money and is now in his 50s, has been unemployed for nearly two years and is staying with his sister. In the process he uprooted his family and lost them too.

 

Did your friends family return to the UK?

I prefer to think it is potentially financial suicide but with the right planning not necessarily a certainty or am I being naïve?

 

My Mother passed away before we left the UK. My dad is 78 and while I hope he lives to 100 we would also be coming back to be with my Siblings, nieces and nephews. We're essentially on our own out here. We have good friends but it's not the same. When we first came out here I jokingly boasted to my brother we're virtually living a millionaire's lifestyle: nice cars, nice big house, the pool, a boat, close to amazing beaches. Nothing we had in Britain. It's taken me a few years but once you get used to it, you can have the greatest life in the world but if you aren't with the people you want to be with it's an empty life. I want my kids to get to know their British cousins properly and I want to get old with my brother and sister before it's too late.

Over time I don't think there's much about Australia my kids would miss. Fair enough friends perhaps but my both my kids had friends that moved interstate and overseas. It works both ways. Aside from whether it's viable financially, we can't stay here and give up a one off job opportunity just because my son or daughter don't want to leave their friends.

The way of life here is great but so can it be in Britain- there's so much more to see and experience with Europe on the doorstep. We have friends and family in Spain, Germany and Switzerland, that we can visit relatively cheaply either flying or driving. Makes a big difference to what we have now which is whether the road trip this year is either north or south of Brissy (who wants to go west to the outback to see red dust?). Makes no difference in the end anyway, all the towns are the same, the accent never changing.

I also think as my kids are getting older, Britain and Europe offer so much more careerwise to young adults. Australia is a great place to bring up young children but can be very restricting to ambitious people especially here in backward, insular Queensland. So many young Australians and New Zealanders have to leave for Europe to get true experience in their chosen fields. I'm trying to give my kids a head start, if it all pans out.

I worry very much about how my kids will assimilate into the British way of life but as long as they're with their parents and close family in a supporting stable environment, which is my number one priority and what I hope to achieve, I think they will assimilate after a while and they're young enough that their sense of belonging will grow over time.

[newjez]

Thanks for the graph, very useful and thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments - what a fantastic resource for information this website is. Just wish I'd found it 13 years ago!

 

 

Unfortunately due to my area of work, I'd be tied to working in London for a few years at least until or if we can get ourselves established back in the housing market and as residents of the UK. The ultimate plan is eventually to move well away from the southeast, possibly to Dorset but maybe Devon or Shropshire but somewhere more affordable. This is why I thought we could rent to begin with while I'm working in London. Once we're settled we could then start looking for the place where we actually want to live 10 years from now.

I have so many scenarios in my head as to how to achieve living back in the UK but each one seems to hit a financial roadblock along the way.

I had hoped to rent our house out in Brisbane until we're settled in the UK but I don't want to end up paying tax on any profit we make from renting it out, we couldn't afford that or end up paying a huge chunk in CGT because we'd be non resident owners when we sold the property.

It doesn't help that my wife would have to remain in Australia for at least 6 months while I sort her Spouse Visa out.

 

Because I would be doing an interoffice transfer from my Firm on the Gold Coast to the London office, therefore staying with the same company just relocating internationally (sounds so straightforward), if I was to get a continuation of service how would that affect the need to be working for at least 6 months to be eligible for a Spouse Visa and would it help in getting a mortgage etc?

 

 

You probably need to have a good chat with your family too. I never forgave my parents for dragging me out of an idealic life in Sydney back to the UK to visit a bitter ungrateful bastard of a grandfather who we saw twice the year we were there before they reaffirmed that England sucks and then dragged me away from a semi happy existence in Barnett to the hell hole of Perth.

 

Of course yours might be all for the move. Or they might be trying to make you happy.

[Bungo]

Thanks for the graph, very useful and thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments - what a fantastic resource for information this website is. Just wish I'd found it 13 years ago!

 

 

Unfortunately due to my area of work, I'd be tied to working in London for a few years at least until or if we can get ourselves established back in the housing market and as residents of the UK. The ultimate plan is eventually to move well away from the southeast, possibly to Dorset but maybe Devon or Shropshire but somewhere more affordable. This is why I thought we could rent to begin with while I'm working in London. Once we're settled we could then start looking for the place where we actually want to live 10 years from now.

I have so many scenarios in my head as to how to achieve living back in the UK but each one seems to hit a financial roadblock along the way.

I had hoped to rent our house out in Brisbane until we're settled in the UK but I don't want to end up paying tax on any profit we make from renting it out, we couldn't afford that or end up paying a huge chunk in CGT because we'd be non resident owners when we sold the property.

It doesn't help that my wife would have to remain in Australia for at least 6 months while I sort her Spouse Visa out.

 

Because I would be doing an interoffice transfer from my Firm on the Gold Coast to the London office, therefore staying with the same company just relocating internationally (sounds so straightforward), if I was to get a continuation of service how would that affect the need to be working for at least 6 months to be eligible for a Spouse Visa and would it help in getting a mortgage etc?

 

Just a few random comments.

 

Are you sure your wife would have to stay behind for six months? I have not heard of that before. What six month working rule at you referring to? I thought you had to prove either evidence of a job or savings to get the UK spouse visa. Running two households for six months is not going to help already tight finances.

 

Regarding paying tax on rental profits, well it is profit, an increase in your overall personal wealth, saying you can't afford to pay tax on an increase in your personal wealth is like saying that you cannot afford to be employed because you can't afford the tax that comes with it. It is illogical. We all have to pay tax on increases in our wealth through employment, investment etc.

 

If you mean that your rental income would not cover the mortgage and you could not afford to supplement it, then it is further evidence that it is a bad idea to rent the house in Brisbane. You would not run a business with expenses more than income, you would shut it down, need to do the same here and sell up.

 

About getting a UK mortgage, why don't you just contact a broker or some individual lenders, explain your situation and just ask what they think about your prospects of getting a mortgage? I organised a mortgage once before I moved back from overseas, but this was pre GFC and in any case every case is different. Just contact some and ask.

 

I will say it again, I don't think your plan is madness. But I would be doing some things differently. If I were you, I would be selling in Brisbane, sorting visa and moving together as a family, planning for dual incomes and then buying as soon as possible in UK to avoid spending half your income on rent.

[Rainman]

Just a few random comments.

 

Are you sure your wife would have to stay behind for six months? I have not heard of that before. What six month working rule at you referring to? I thought you had to prove either evidence of a job or savings to get the UK spouse visa. Running two households for six months is not going to help already tight finances.

 

 

This is only what I have been reading on a couple of Expat forums. I'm sure I read if you have to apply for a Spouse Visa, your partner must remain outside of the UK during the Visa process. I'll have to clarify that one. I may have misunderstood, I hope so.

 

 

Regarding paying tax on rental profits, well it is profit, an increase in your overall personal wealth, saying you can't afford to pay tax on an increase in your personal wealth is like saying that you cannot afford to be employed because you can't afford the tax that comes with it. It is illogical. We all have to pay tax on increases in our wealth through employment, investment etc.

 

I wasn't making myself clear. I was talking about not being able to qualify for tax relief on maintenance costs etc. as a non resident owner. I realise I would have to pay tax on any additional money I make, regardless of being a resident or not. Our rental income would more than cover the mortgage.

 

About getting a UK mortgage, why don't you just contact a broker or some individual lenders.

 

I enquired at a Building Society when I was home in June. They said based on my circumstances I could potentially be able to get a mortgage up to age 75. I don't want to be tied to a mortgage for that long. I'd work out some way of paying it off faster but if it means getting back into the housing market in the UK at age 50, I'll take it.

 

 

I will say it again, I don't think your plan is madness. But I would be doing some things differently. If I were you, I would be selling in Brisbane, sorting visa and moving together as a family, planning for dual incomes and then buying as soon as possible in UK to avoid spending half your income on rent.

 

Thanks. Saying my plan isn't total madness is giving me some hope it could work out.

[ramot]

Can you take Australian citizenship or are there visa restrictions?

 

On the 410 retirement visa we are always temporary, with no chance of PR.

No complaints (unusual on PIO!!!) we knew the conditions when we retired here, fully self funded.

The visa was stopped about 7 years ago, but not a problem for those of us on it, it's renewed every 10 years and fairly automatic

 

We have 3 chidren, and 2 followed us here, son has PR, and daughter waiting for hers, so we could go for parent visa, but keep asking ourselves if access to Medicare is worth $100.000.

[Marisawright]

Thanks for the graph, very useful and thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments - what a fantastic resource for information this website is. Just wish I'd found it 13 years ago!

 

 

Unfortunately due to my area of work, I'd be tied to working in London for a few years

 

I understand that, but the whole point of that graph is to show you comparative costs of housing in commutable areas around London. From which you can see that moving north of London instead of staying down in the southeast could save you far more on the price of your house than it would cost you in extra commuting costs.

 

You say you will be driving to work - is your car essential to your work, or is your work not accessible by public transport? Insisting on being close enough to drive will place you in some very expensive areas indeed.

 

We've been shocked by how expensive Dorset is.

 

I think you need to double-check the requirements for the spouse visa. As you are continuing with the same employer, I don't believe your wife needs to stay behind for six months. You simply apply while you're in Australia and wait until it's approved. My oh's visa took about three weeks - we're in Sydney, it may take longer elsewhere.

[newjez]

On the 410 retirement visa we are always temporary, with no chance of PR.

No complaints (unusual on PIO!!!) we knew the conditions when we retired here, fully self funded.

The visa was stopped about 7 years ago, but not a problem for those of us on it, it's renewed every 10 years and fairly automatic

 

We have 3 chidren, and 2 followed us here, son has PR, and daughter waiting for hers, so we could go for parent visa, but keep asking ourselves if access to Medicare is worth $100.000.

 

 

You could try applying and going for a bridging visa. I would of thought you had a good case, but I'm no expert. Private health can be expensive, but then you may choose to have it with pr anyway I guess.

[ramot]

You could try applying and going for a bridging visa. I would of thought you had a good case, but I'm no expert. Private health can be expensive, but then you may choose to have it with pr anyway I guess.

 

Sorry don't quite understand?

 

on the 410 retirement visa you can't apply for PR, unless your circumstances change. We have full rights to live here, but are totally self funded, no Medicare etc.

In our case when our daughter gets PR we can and are eligible to apply for parent visa, we just don't think the cost of $100.000 for the 2 of us is worth it, and yes we would keep up private health, makes sense when you are older.

We can change our minds at any time when our daughter gets PR, it's up to us, but for now we are happy to stay on the 410. It costs peanuts to renew every 10 years.

Also there are tax implications, as at present we pay UK tax, which is better for us, might change our minds in the future who knows.