Teachers Moving or Living in Australia

[Sammy1]

Hi,

 

Looking for a bit of advice from fellow teachers. I am waiting on a visa grant for a 189 under Early Childhood teacher. My family and I are looking to move over Summer 2016 (in time for new jobs being advertised for Jan 2017 start). My husband may have a job offer in Perth so that's where we will be headed. I have just completed my NQT and am on maternity leave. I really don't want to go back to my current school full time and have been told part time will not be an option. I don't want to start at a new school when I will be leaving in the summer and think I'll struggle to find a fixed term, part time contract.

 

This leaves supply work but will this make it difficult to prove to TRBWA how many years service I have? Will I find it harder to find a permanent position in Australia if I have done supply in the UK? If I were to do supply work in a private nursery/kindergarten would this count towards my years of service because in Australia there has to be a qualified Early years teacher employed by the nursery but that is not the case in the UK?

 

Thank you x

 

With regards to finding a permanent job in Perth when you arrive, you will find it very hard. You may find something easily in a day care centre though. The hours are not so great and the pay is pretty average compared to a school setting.

 

You will most likely need to do relief at schools and hopefully get your face known to do a short term contract - that happens for most.

 

There is no way you will walk into a permanent early childhood job here as soon as you arrive, not when there are many excellent quality local candidates who cannot secure jobs.

 

Last year all of the Perth universities encouraged their undergrads to re-think primary and early childhood and switch to secondary. There are simply too many grads and too few jobs. Contract work (if you are lucky) will be your most likely option.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Sammy1

[Sammy1]

People talk about how there's a shortage in maths and science teachers but I am yet to see evidence of it. From my time looking for jobs, I still receive job alerts via email and there are barely any jobs advertised. I also have friends who are in permanent jobs but happen to be applying for new schools and they say that there is nothing around. I think it's a myth that there's a shortage - in the Sydney area anyway.

 

The other problem is that many schools advertise but know that it is going to an internal candidate, wasting your time and efforts on an application - perhaps a casual that they like or someone on a temp block. I think the best bet is to try and get temp blocks with a school, impress and hope a job comes up.

 

Maths, science and D and T are in demand in Perth and WA in general, mostly because our year sevens started high school for the first time this year. Many teachers are retiring in those subject areas. There have been lots of opportunities for secondary teachers in those areas this year. Primary is dire though.

[milliem]

This is true

 

There are not that many Maths / Science jobs advertised. A teacher has recently started at our school who took 5 years to get a high school Science job, despite being a former head of year 7. However, I think this was influenced by her lack of Maths teaching experience and Biology is less in demand.

 

Physics is always in demand with some head hunting happening around the networks.

 

UK experience is highly regarded, especially with the external assessment changes at QCAA in Queensland. I for one will be glad when this happens. Baccalaureate experience is also in demand as many schools are starting to switch up to this.

 

I went for an interview a few months ago and they only asked two routine questions before making an offer. Once you get into the educational circles there tends to be a lot of off the record communication between schools. Don't be surprised if Australian referees are contacted before an invite to interview is made.

[Sammy1]

This is true

 

There are not that many Maths / Science jobs advertised. A teacher has recently started at our school who took 5 years to get a high school Science job, despite being a former head of year 7. However, I think this was influenced by her lack of Maths teaching experience and Biology is less in demand.

 

Physics is always in demand with some head hunting happening around the networks.

 

UK experience is highly regarded, especially with the external assessment changes at QCAA in Queensland. I for one will be glad when this happens. Baccalaureate experience is also in demand as many schools are starting to switch up to this.

 

I went for an interview a few months ago and they only asked two routine questions before making an offer. Once you get into the educational circles there tends to be a lot of off the record communication between schools. Don't be surprised if Australian referees are contacted before an invite to interview is made.

 

Teaching is a very small community in each state and I really agree that there is a lot of off record communication.

 

In WA, referees are nearly always called before any interview is offered.

[Vanduex]

Data data data. Analytics, external assessment and accountability. All the key QLD points right now.

[Selina Smith]

With regards to finding a permanent job in Perth when you arrive, you will find it very hard. You may find something easily in a day care centre though. The hours are not so great and the pay is pretty average compared to a school setting.

 

You will most likely need to do relief at schools and hopefully get your face known to do a short term contract - that happens for most.

 

There is no way you will walk into a permanent early childhood job here as soon as you arrive, not when there are many excellent quality local candidates who cannot secure jobs.

 

Last year all of the Perth universities encouraged their undergrads to re-think primary and early childhood and switch to secondary. There are simply too many grads and too few jobs. Contract work (if you are lucky) will be your most likely option.

 

Thank you for the reply. I understand that it will be difficult to get anything permanent in a school so have been looking at childcare centres. I have a baby that will have just turned one when we make the move and have seen a lot of day care centres offer a discount for children of staff so this may offset the drop on wages a little. I've also had a look into the legalities of running my own family day care too but this obviously depends on the type of property we can secure when we arrive. I'm thinking ACECQA will only assess my qualification as a cert III because my course didn't cover 0-2 age range which seems to be a problem for a lot of UK early years teachers. It's a bit of a minefield!!! X

[Guest HEISENBURG]

Ok I've missed a major factor here....do I need to do IELTS test before skills assessment??? Was being a little naive presuming as a British citizen I didn't need to! How do I go about this please??

 

I think you can automatically claim 10 points for having competent English if you have a UK degree. You don't have to prove basic English if you're a UK passport holder (other nationalities do). If you're old ( like me ), and need the points, you can get 20 points points for superior English ( IELTS L8 R8 W8 S8) .

[Ken]

I think you can automatically claim 10 points for having competent English if you have a UK degree. You don't have to prove basic English if you're a UK passport holder (other nationalities do). If you're old ( like me ), and need the points, you can get 20 points points for superior English ( IELTS L8 R8 W8 S8) .

 

No, to get the 10 points you have to take the IELTS test and score a 7 or above in each of the 4 sections. A British passport gives you an automatic Competent (but that's only a 6 in each of the 4 sections) so you don't have to sit the test to emigrate but there are no extra points. Also for some skills assessment you have to take the IELTS test (even with a British passport) because you're required to score 7 or above in each section.

[duckygee]

Hi,

 

I would really like some opinions about what teaching in Australia is like compared to the UK from people who have taught for a number of years in the UK and whether there are job opportunities.

 

I'll explain a bit about my experience over here.

 

I started teaching in my late 20s in 2007. I taught IT full time in a mixed comprehensive of about 2000 pupils, but it was a good school academically with very good GCSE and A level results. I taught years 7 - 13. 2 years later I had my first child and dropped to 4 days a week when I returned in 2010. 2 years after that I had my second child and was refused part time on my return, so I left and went to teach full time on a maternity contract in a sixth form college which was much closer to home. August 2014 the maternity contract came to an end and I left teaching.

 

I really enjoyed teaching for the first 5 years of my career. It wasn't a dream job, but I enjoyed the challenge and I enjoyed that no two days were the same. By the time I quit 7 years later, I was disheartened and tired. The workload seemed to keep increasing, the pressure on teachers to be outstanding 6 lessons a day 5 days a week was relentless and because I was an IT teacher and most of the courses I taught were coursework based, the marking was constant and the shifting curriculum meant that prep very rarely got any easier year by year. I began to feel that I had to make a choice between my children and someone else's and so eventually I chose my own children and the sanity of my marriage.

 

So really I want to judge what it is like in Australia. Do the children respect the teachers, do the teachers get time within school to mark and prep or are they expected to do it all in their own time, is there constant pressure to perform even when the children are happy and achieving well (do they judge you lesson by lesson or on the overall acheivement?) Do IT secondary jobs still exist? Is it possible to work part time?

 

Also, if I was staying over here, I think I'd look to switch into primary and I have already been doing some volunteering in my daughter's school and have done a few days supply as a primary teacher. I have to say I much prefer the primary environment, but I have no primary training or any real experience. So, would I be likely to be able to switch to primary in Australia or is there an over-supply already?

 

It's Victoria we are moving to, if that makes a difference. IT secondary teachers are still on the 'in demand' list for Victoria and I already have my visa and have registered with Victoria teaching.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

[Guest Guest226914]

Hi,

 

I would really like some opinions about what teaching in Australia is like compared to the UK from people who have taught for a number of years in the UK and whether there are job opportunities.

 

I'll explain a bit about my experience over here.

 

I started teaching in my late 20s in 2007. I taught IT full time in a mixed comprehensive of about 2000 pupils, but it was a good school academically with very good GCSE and A level results. I taught years 7 - 13. 2 years later I had my first child and dropped to 4 days a week when I returned in 2010. 2 years after that I had my second child and was refused part time on my return, so I left and went to teach full time on a maternity contract in a sixth form college which was much closer to home. August 2014 the maternity contract came to an end and I left teaching.

 

I really enjoyed teaching for the first 5 years of my career. It wasn't a dream job, but I enjoyed the challenge and I enjoyed that no two days were the same. By the time I quit 7 years later, I was disheartened and tired. The workload seemed to keep increasing, the pressure on teachers to be outstanding 6 lessons a day 5 days a week was relentless and because I was an IT teacher and most of the courses I taught were coursework based, the marking was constant and the shifting curriculum meant that prep very rarely got any easier year by year. I began to feel that I had to make a choice between my children and someone else's and so eventually I chose my own children and the sanity of my marriage.

 

So really I want to judge what it is like in Australia. Do the children respect the teachers, do the teachers get time within school to mark and prep or are they expected to do it all in their own time, is there constant pressure to perform even when the children are happy and achieving well (do they judge you lesson by lesson or on the overall acheivement?) Do IT secondary jobs still exist? Is it possible to work part time?

 

Also, if I was staying over here, I think I'd look to switch into primary and I have already been doing some volunteering in my daughter's school and have done a few days supply as a primary teacher. I have to say I much prefer the primary environment, but I have no primary training or any real experience. So, would I be likely to be able to switch to primary in Australia or is there an over-supply already?

 

It's Victoria we are moving to, if that makes a difference. IT secondary teachers are still on the 'in demand' list for Victoria and I already have my visa and have registered with Victoria teaching.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

Hi I'm from Sydney but I hear things are very similar in Victoria so hopefully my experiences can be of some help....

 

I'm a maths teacher at a Sydney public school and I found teaching in the UK the same as you did. The pressure to constantly be outstanding was too much and I felt like I was constantly jumping through the ofsted hoops. I witnessed immense bullying from the senior leadership team of regular teachers who they didn't feel were good enough. Instead of giving them the support they needed, they were bullied until they resigned. Although it didn't happen to me, I couldn't work in a school like that anymore and from my experiences in other schools and word from teacher friends, my school was not the only one where things like this were happening.

 

I was always going to move to oz but the move was speeded up by me being so unhappy teaching in UK.

 

Anyway so I arrived in Sydney and as soon as I started my job I knew I had done the right thing. It is very laid back here and I felt from the minute I walked through the door I felt like I was trusted and it was assumed I was a good teacher. In UK, I always felt like I constantly had to prove I was good enough.

 

There is nowhere near the pressures of the UK system. I used to get to school at 6am and leave at 6pm with extra work to do when I got home because of the sheer amount of 'other stuff' that I had to do. Marking was so strict I always had a million books to mark every night. Here I get in about 20 mins before school starts and stay an hour or so after school. The majority of planning for lessons gets done during free periods and although there is still marking there is nowhere near as much of it. I actually have a life outside of work now.

 

Schools are not as obsessed with results as they are in UK because there aren't league tables.

 

From a teaching point of view it is sooooooooo much better teaching here. There is more freedom to be the teacher you want to be knowing that you aren't going to be observed every 2 seconds and be given a label of good/outstanding etc. I probably would have ended up leaving teaching if I had stayed in UK. Moving to Australia actually saved me haha.

 

 

Some of your other questions....

 

- Children respecting teachers: children are children and it's much the same as UK really. I find if you deserve to be respected generally the kids will respect you. I do see teachers who are constantly yelling at the kids and then wonder why they don't respect them.

- Going part time: It is possible in public schools if you have young kids in NSW (not sure on the rules in VIC). I think it might be more flexible in private system.

- I think it might be hard going primary if you aren't trained in it. Again not sure on VIC rules but in NSW you would have to retrain.

 

Hope that helps and feel free to ask more questions.

Edited October 19, 2015 by george8181

[duckygee]

Hi I'm from Sydney but I hear things are very similar in Victoria so hopefully my experiences can be of some help....

 

I'm a maths teacher at a Sydney public school and I found teaching in the UK the same as you did. The pressure to constantly be outstanding was too much and I felt like I was constantly jumping through the ofsted hoops. I witnessed immense bullying from the senior leadership team of regular teachers who they didn't feel were good enough. Instead of giving them the support they needed, they were bullied until they resigned. Although it didn't happen to me, I couldn't work in a school like that anymore and from my experiences in other schools and word from teacher friends, my school was not the only one where things like this were happening.

 

I was always going to move to oz but the move was speeded up by me being so unhappy teaching in UK.

 

Anyway so I arrived in Sydney and as soon as I started my job I knew I had done the right thing. It is very laid back here and I felt from the minute I walked through the door I felt like I was trusted and it was assumed I was a good teacher. In UK, I always felt like I constantly had to prove I was good enough.

 

There is nowhere near the pressures of the UK system. I used to get to school at 6am and leave at 6pm with extra work to do when I got home because of the sheer amount of 'other stuff' that I had to do. Marking was so strict I always had a million books to mark every night. Here I get in about 20 mins before school starts and stay an hour or so after school. The majority of planning for lessons gets done during free periods and although there is still marking there is nowhere near as much of it. I actually have a life outside of work now.

 

Schools are not as obsessed with results as they are in UK because there aren't league tables.

 

From a teaching point of view it is sooooooooo much better teaching here. There is more freedom to be the teacher you want to be knowing that you aren't going to be observed every 2 seconds and be given a label of good/outstanding etc. I probably would have ended up leaving teaching if I had stayed in UK. Moving to Australia actually saved me haha.

 

 

Some of your other questions....

 

- Children respecting teachers: children are children and it's much the same as UK really. I find if you deserve to be respected generally the kids will respect you. I do see teachers who are constantly yelling at the kids and then wonder why they don't respect them.

- Going part time: It is possible in public schools if you have young kids in NSW (not sure on the rules in VIC). I think it might be more flexible in private system.

- I think it might be hard going primary if you aren't trained in it. Again not sure on VIC rules but in NSW you would have to retrain.

 

Hope that helps and feel free to ask more questions.

 

Thank you @george8181 that is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Your situation over in the UK sounds like mine was over here. Due to having young children all my extra work had to be fit in once they were in bed, but similar to you going in early and staying late, I still had hours of extra work each night. I knew I was a good teacher, as my observations were always 1s or 2s and my students told me they enjoyed my lessons and learnt well, but the pressure was constant. Brilliant results from my students didn't seem to be enough because then they just pressurised me to make fabulous and exciting lower school lessons all the time (and believe me, it can certainly be a struggle making spreadsheets exciting to 13 year olds). I also very much agree with the bullying tactics used by SMT. My old school lost a lot of good teachers to other schools, due to the fact they were constantly having informal observations in the form of 'learning walks' and 'peer reviews', which meant you never felt you could just relax and teach.

 

So thank you very much, a lot of food for thought and it has given me the belief that I could actually come over there and try and get a job and see how things go, rather than trying to avoid teaching like the plague.

Edited October 19, 2015 by duckygee

[Sammy1]

Thank you @george8181 that is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. Your situation over in the UK sounds like mine was over here. Due to having young children all my extra work had to be fit in once they were in bed, but similar to you going in early and staying late, I still had hours of extra work each night. I knew I was a good teacher, as my observations were always 1s or 2s and my students told me they enjoyed my lessons and learnt well, but the pressure was constant. Brilliant results from my students didn't seem to be enough because then they just pressurised me to make fabulous and exciting lower school lessons all the time (and believe me, it can certainly be a struggle making spreadsheets exciting to 13 year olds). I also very much agree with the bullying tactics used by SMT. My old school lost a lot of good teachers to other schools, due to the fact they were constantly having informal observations in the form of 'learning walks' and 'peer reviews', which meant you never felt you could just relax and teach.

 

So thank you very much, a lot of food for thought and it has given me the belief that I could actually come over there and try and get a job and see how things go, rather than trying to avoid teaching like the plague.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but you can absolutely expect regular peer observation/reviews/ growth coaching and walk throughs - they are the big thing here now and making their way across each state.

 

It's all data,data, data to the detriment of teaching sometimes.

 

I went back to work today after a weekend that was mainly filled with school activities and work.

 

I collapse in a heap at the end of each term and often half way through. We are swiftly following in the UK's tracks.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Sammy1

[Powells]

I have to agree with Sammi. Much as I love my teaching job here in Victoria we have regular peer observations, a structured review process and the expectations on teacher time are pretty similar to the UK. I work at home and have meetings either with parents or staff meetings before and after most school days and data is King.

That said I work with excellent colleagues and students and love where I live so wouldn't change anything. Job security can be an issue in Victoria with many roles being contract however where we are IT is still a role that is in demand.

 

Nicky

[duckygee]

Oh gosh, I really don't want to be going back into the permanent pressure. I know I'm a good teacher, so it's not a fear of failure, but when I first started teaching, it was one observation a year unless there was something considered to be wrong with your teaching. I don't deal well with feeling I'm under constant scrutiny, I just want to get on with my job.

 

You can still do supply over there though can't you? So, once we have decided on the area we want to live in (we've just got back from a recce visit and loved almost all of the Port Phillip bay areas we explored) and my husband has found a job, I could do the remainder of the academic year on supply getting to know the system, the schools and deciding whether it was for me?

@Powells - where do Victoria jobs tend to be advertised? Do you know any good Victoria supply agencies?

[E2306]

There's been a lot of discussion about how bad the job situation is in Perth and I'm starting to wonder if this move is more high risk than we anticipated! I by no means mind doing relief and short term contract work to get my foot in the door but am I being unrealistic about securing a permanent post. We have three young children to go into childcare/kindy which is a massive expense so I must secure work asap but are we crazy even considering it if things are that bad. Last thing we want is to spend a lot of money just to get over and then not be able to afford to stay!

[milliem]

I also hate to burst the bubble of hope but it really depends on the school and how it is run.

 

My school is number one in the state and it is a very high pressure environment. One spare lesson a week is the norm as others are taken up with cover work or other activities. Learning walks and observations happen constantly. There is no limit to how many you can have like in the UK. I have had 4 in just the last month and that does not include other schools coming in to observe best practice. I don't worry too much about them but some teachers find it a bit stressful.

 

I work much longer hours than I did in the UK and as Queensland does not yet have an external assessment system, the marking can be brutal.

 

Despite all these things, I enjoy it much more than my job in the UK. I teach both fast track and regular classes and they all work exceptionally hard. I have yet to issue a consequence for behaviour as this is not an issue.

In a class of 30 I might have 1 that has forgotten their homework and we are treated as professionals. The pay is much better. The only part that frustrates me is the volume of marking, not books but assessment pieces.

 

In Victoria the assessment system is much more streamlined so less marking but you could well have a very high volume of work

[Guest LandL]

I have been out in Perth for 4 weeks now and got an interview with a relief agency the day after I applied. I am lucky that my subject is Science so slightly more in demand than perhaps other subjects, but I am still seeing jobs coming up on seek every day for full time positions next year.

My consultant at the agency was also reasonably positive about getting me some work before the holidays so fingers crossed. It isnt ideal but im hoping somewhere along the way they will find me a contract position for some consistency! Im just hoping teenagers in oz aren't any worse than teenagers in the uk!

[chouse]

Hi

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

I am unsure which occupation to apply for assessment for with AITSL.

 

I am a qualified SENCo and secondary Computing teacher from the UK.

My qualifications are:

BA Hons Education Studies

PGCE Secondary ICT

PGCE Special Educational Needs Coordination

 

I am not sure whether the SENCo PGCE would suffice as the SEN qualification for assessment as Sen teacher. Has anyone received a positive assessment with this qualification?

 

Thank you again.

 

Leah

[E2306]

Am I missing something with the points for the visa application as I don't seem to be hitting the 60 points. I realise I can do the IELTS test for a further 10 points which will get me to 60 but just wanted to check I haven't missed anything...

 

Age 33-39 = 15 pointsBachelor Degree = 15 points

9 years overseas experience = 15 points

Partner age/skills = 5

 

 

[wolvesaussie]

leah my wife is teaching in a private school here she is finding it much better than the uk. no ofstead stress she has had only three observations in two years she is basically left to get on with it with little interference. i have noticed the change in her shes so much happier. she still works hard and has a lot of marking to do and meetings with parents etc but overall its a much less stressful environment for her.

[chouse]

Thanks WolveAussie,

 

Thanks great to know. It songs amazing from what you've said! thank you

[E2306]

Am I missing something with the points for the visa application as I don't seem to be hitting the 60 points. I realise I can do the IELTS test for a further 10 points which will get me to 60 but just wanted to check I haven't missed anything...

 

Age 33-39 = 15 pointsBachelor Degree = 15 points

9 years overseas experience = 15 points

Partner age/skills = 5

 

 

Realised that I've made a mistake with the age..should be 25 points!

[E2306]

Can anybody advise on payment for AITSL application...two options are Australia post money order or credit card. We don't have credit cards and the post money only seems to be available at Australian post offices. Can you pay by visa debit??

[chouse]

Have you looked at a pre paid credit card? You can get them and they should be accepted. Maybe email AITSL and ask for clarification?

[E2306]

Thank you for your reply. I'm not quite sure what a pre paid credit card is! Can I use a family member's credit card or does it have to be in my name?