Leaving because of racism experience

[Guest Guest16631]

....................I sure they can......[sorry pressed wrong button]...............but it does seem to be an aussie trait...........or the charasteristic they are percieved for most..............

[pablo]

but I've yet to see any real evidence that Aussies are so blunt! IMO if anything they're more reserved in making comments and would rather keep their gob shut than mouthing off all the time

 

Well im only going on a reccie and those ive met in London,havnt met as many as you it goes without saying,but the people i met over there were very straight to the point,and i DO think theres a fine line between being straight or tactless,i guess only the person on the receiving end can decide if they think its malicious or tactless cant they?because there is a big difference in the two isnt there.

But i can only speak about them as ive found them cant i,all the ones i met were aces,im 100% their not ALL like that,and i'l say if so

[pablo]

.....................not excusing lack of manners...................but the social banter is different in that often the comments are more [struggling to explain here]..........blunt:wideeyed:..................some of the colloquialisms.......................would offend many in the uk .................but here terms of endearment such as ranger and others are acceptable................like I said its the body language that helps to interprate some of the more questionable remarks..................

 

Exactly,in the same way we are told to accept being called a pommie bas7ard,IE it means they like ya maAAAAAATE:goofy::laugh:

[Guest stormgal]

I can't believe people are excusing what is basically a lack of manners and tact, whether it be to comment on someone's race, colour, BMI, facial hair etc.

 

TBH I haven't really seen any evidence that it's much different here to the UK in that respect. Manners are manners. People need to learn them as they grow up..it's called social conditioning.

 

Me neither. If these things were happening in some country like Nigeria people would probably be "up in arms" talking about how they'd never visit or migrate to that country and how that behavior is unacceptable.

 

But Lord forbid - since the majority here are contemplating and making arrangements to permanently move to Oz, oh well, now the behavior is excused - it's almost like being in denial - wouldn't want to get on our host's nerves, now do we! We have to be exactly like them and embrace the racism/ sexism/ or other ism etc because you know, we are only guests here - escaped from our countries that are saddled with unemployment, massive debt, terrible weather, or {insert other problem here}. Oh, oh, but wait wait, it's not racism I mean, you know... it's just people being outspoken, cause you know, it's okay... I mean really.... I think you're just misunderstanding.... Oh but wait a second!! The color of that person's skin makes them a prime candidate for rioting, anyway, so why do we have to care how they feel, hell no, bud!

 

 

 

I find it amazing how people are tolerant of abuse when their stomachs and pockets are full - oh and of course - when they and their loved ones are not the pariahs :no:

 

And by the way, I'm only referring here to the OP's experience - a woman who came fully skilled from the UK and was treated this way.

[Skani]

No real long term experience of Aussies as you know h,i HAVE mentioned a few times i find them very straight tho,i dont mind that within reason meself,because i find it "similar" to Lpool,but some might say too blunt yes.manners cost nothing and are important to me

 

I remember Michael Parkinson saying in an interview that he immediately felt at home in Australia (and spends quite a lot of time here) because Australians are very direct, in the way that Yorkshiremen (and women) are.

[Harpodom]

Well im only going on a reccie and those ive met in London,havnt met as many as you it goes without saying,but the people i met over there were very straight to the point,and i DO think theres a fine line between being straight or tactless,i guess only the person on the receiving end can decide if they think its malicious or tactless cant they?because there is a big difference in the two isnt there.

But i can only speak about them as ive found them cant i,all the ones i met were aces,im 100% their not ALL like that,and i'l say if so

 

 

I wonder if anyone else gets what I'm trying to say?

I suppose I'm quite blunt and to the point, as is most of my family.

Ironically, it's quite the opposite of my wife and her extended family (:SLEEP::SLEEP::SLEEP:), and many of her friends, and most of the people we've met in the last 3 years, and many of the people we met when I lived in Melbourne and Cairns.

[Guest Guest16631]

Exactly,in the same way we are told to accept being called a pommie bas7ard,IE it means they like ya maAAAAAATE:goofy::laugh:

................and by the tone of their voice and the circumstances in which it was said dictates your reaction.....................

...................all down to stereotypes and preconcieved ideas again..................do we excuse behaviour that is foreign to us because it is colloquial...................??................and accept different cultures have different ways.....??................:wideeyed:[nothing to do with manners and respect that is a totally different matter]

[Guest Guest16631]

......................some of the op's experiences were inexcuseable...................lack of respect and basic good manners..............what I am saying is...................sometimes what one culture deems distasteful[ranger for a red head I would find offensive]..........is often percieved differently by another culture....................ie here it is not considered offensive by most..................its accepting and learning the difference.................in a Colloquialism and a bad mannered remark...............different country........................different way of looking at some things.............

[pablo]

I wonder if anyone else gets what I'm trying to say?

I suppose I'm quite blunt and to the point, as is most of my family.

Ironically, it's quite the opposite of my wife and her extended family (:SLEEP::SLEEP::SLEEP:), and many of her friends, and most of the people we've met in the last 3 years, and many of the people we met when I lived in Melbourne and Cairns.

 

Maybe you mix with a more cultured/diplomatic class of bogan than i did mate:wideeyed::wink:

No,i get what yer saying h,im not AS soft as i make out,maybe it DOES have something to do with your work/social circles tho?

Anyway getting late,have to scoot in a mo:wubclub:,still not ....ing tired tho,again!!:arghh:

[Harpodom]

Maybe you mix with a more cultured/diplomatic class of bogan than i did mate:wideeyed::wink:

No,i get what yer saying h,im not AS soft as i make out,maybe it DOES have something to do with your work/social circles tho?

Anyway getting late,have to scoot in a mo:wubclub:,still not ....ing tired tho,again!!:arghh:

 

must be that......:goofy:.

 

 

 

keep talking mate. have another bifter and scotch

[pablo]

Me neither. If these things were happening in some country like Nigeria people would probably be "up in arms" talking about how they'd never visit or migrate to that country and how that behavior is unacceptable.

 

But Lord forbid - since the majority here are contemplating and making arrangements to permanently move to Oz, oh well, now the behavior is excused - it's almost like being in denial - wouldn't want to get on our host's nerves, now do we! We have to be exactly like them and embrace the racism/ sexism/ or other ism etc because you know, we are only guests here - escaped from our countries that are saddled with unemployment, massive debt, terrible weather, or {insert other problem here}. Oh, oh, but wait wait, it's not racism I mean, you know... it's just people being outspoken, cause you know, it's okay... I mean really.... I think you're just misunderstanding.... Oh but wait a second!! The color of that person's skin makes them a prime candidate for rioting, anyway, so why do we have to care how they feel, hell no, bud!

 

 

 

I find it amazing how people are tolerant of abuse when their stomachs and pockets are full - oh and of course - when they and their loved ones are not the pariahs :no:

 

And by the way, I'm only referring here to the OP's experience - a woman who came fully skilled from the UK and was treated this way.

 

Dont agree one bit fwiw,theres racism in every country in the world,against black,white,asian whatever,i dont think people excuse it because their moving/living there.

Maybe some people are TOO quick to see racism or any ism in anything?are people not allowed to question things,or give their own slant on situations without getting branded a racist and therefore their opinions dont matter?without debate and opinions racism WOULD thrive

[Skani]

We have to be exactly like them and embrace the racism/ sexism/ or other ism etc because you know, we are only guests here

.

 

You don't have to be exactly like them or embrace anything.

But Australia is not the UK with more sun.

There are social differences, sometimes subtle, and if you misinterpret something as a criticism when it is not intended then you are likely to subject yourself to more unhapppines than is necessary.

You are quite justified in being outraged at racism and/or sexism, but just make sure that it really is - and not being misinterpreted.

 

When I was in Thailand I received lots of comments about the colour of my skin. I didn't interpret that as racist or rude - just interest and curiosity. I was also subjected to several inquisitions as to why I didn't have children of my own - only a foster daughter. But I didn't treat that as rudeness, just as curiosity about something which was different to their cultural norm.

[Skani]

I find it amazing how people are tolerant of abuse when their stomachs and pockets are full - oh and of course - when they and their loved ones are not the pariahs :no:

 

 

You are making assumptions about the financial and racial status of other posters.

[Guest Guest16631]

...............The common response in all societies to other cultures is to judge them in terms of the values and customs of their own familiar culture. .............anything alien is questioned.................this is how understanding and eventually acceptance of another culture is achieved.....................the way some of the OP's experiences have been enacted .................................have not in the main been a cultural exchange................but a bad mannered exchange from an individual........................not necessarely indicative to australian culture............................two different experiences....................blunt and bad manners are not the same thing...................

[pablo]

I went the cheap bifter shop the other month,ran by lads from Tajikistan i found out, because i asked them,might have been taken the wrong way by them,im a big lummox,skinhead,scars all over my head etc,so stereotypical nazi looking type,except im not.

Anyway,ended up having the craic with them,had a laff etc,on my way out one said "are you arabic?",i said "arabic,why arabic":goofy:,the one said "Q,Q,Q",i said "what d'yer mean"

He said "you say ck like ckqqqqqq,arabic Q",and they all laffed,so did i when i understood,wat he was taking the p7ss out of was my accent :mad::laugh:,because for instance CHICKEN ends up sounding like CHICKQQQQEN when spoke with my accent,something i cant help tbh.

The longwinded point:SLEEP: :dull:im trying to make is staightness CAN be a very good thing,it can break down barriers,people are sometimes TOO respectfull to the point its bordering on introverted,im talking about straightness,NOT racism btw,i dont like racism,like others have said,its HOW its said,only the OP knows that,none of us do

[Guest Guest16631]

.....................thanks pablo....................put so much more clearly than I can............!!!

[landv]

Well, it's just as well you don't associate with my very attractive 20 something nieces because they (and their friends) are always receiving comments/compliments about their hair extensions/colour/style/clothes - from other women, I should add, not (only) from men on the make. I've even received comments about hair and clothes and I'm pretty ancient :wink:

In this country it is not regarded as a lack of manners.

 

 

 

You're missing the point of what I was trying to say.

It is not about paying compliments on clothes/styles/appearances.

 

I used to work with women in London, who were originally from Zimbabwe, Nigeria and various other African countries, and they used to come to work with a different hairstyle every time, it was obvious they were wigs, but I never had and would have never had said "your wig looks nice", I normally said " this style is really good" or in fact I did say "your hair looks nice". Why point out the obvious?

Working with them (and even now here in Aus), I knew they were generally conscious of their hair. I would assume it's a well known fact that african women's hair is difficult to manage, hence specialized salons for this type of thing.

On another note, it could be equally damaging to say this to a white person who might have to wear a wig because going through chemotherapy, or have lost their hair through other reasons and are already conscious of the fact that they have to wear a wig.

 

I stand by what I said earlier, that it was pure ignorance, some people should think before they open their mouth.

[Guest stormgal]

Dont agree one bit fwiw,theres racism in every country in the world,against black,white,asian whatever,i dont think people excuse it because their moving/living there.

 

 

I agree - so I guess the question is, why do people allow themselves to be called names like, "greasy wog" "paki" "coloured" "the mad greek", "lazy abo" etc.

 

Maybe some people are TOO quick to see racism or any ism in anything?are people not allowed to question things,or give their own slant on situations without getting branded a racist and therefore their opinions dont matter?without debate and opinions racism WOULD thrive

 

Probably? Despite being pretty blunt myself, but I would never call anyone's children "colored" "frizzy", etc. How will those children grow up to feel?

 

I met a woman online whose parents took her to Oz when she was about 6 years old. Despite being 100% British, the school kids teased her and called her "wog" because she has dark hair with dark white (almost olive skin). Even though she's a 100% pure English woman, someone always asks her "where are you from". When she says "From Australia/ Pommie" they say, "reeeaalllyy??" like almost sarcastic.

I can see how that experience has affected her - today she's almost 50. I won't elaborate but she's very race conscience up to the point of always commenting about it. One day she was upset because a group of blonde women at her job weren't talking to her. I wondered why she cared, and then it hit me that she probably thought that her "own kind" were discriminating against her. So back to the OP's children, I can see why she moved out - no one wants their children subjected to feelings of inferiority.

 

 

Today, I posted a question on another australian forum that had to do with migrating alone and feeling lonely/ and if anyone regrets moving due to missing back home, (which is really my biggest and only concern, really). Well lo and behold - someone of asian ancestry answers my post about how today he got spat on in the bus by a woman who insulted him with racial slurs, so now he definitely feels like heading home.

 

And by the way, let me make clear that I am not a race conscience pc person - my parents didn't bring me up that way. But it does make me feel bad when people are treated like less than human. Same applies to gender discrimination, etc. Maybe it's my having been bullied days back in grade school, I don't know, but I know it's not a pleasant feeling.

[pablo]

.....................thanks pablo....................put so much more clearly than I can............!!!

 

No! your one above mine summed it up Tink:notworthy:,INDIVIDUALS(i better shut up,or H will talk about us!:chatterbox::wink:)and if i was the OP i'd listen to the advice given and maybe move if she no longer feels comfortable there,maybe somewhere more multicultural like Brissie,Melb,Sydney?

I and nobody else on this thread would condone racism i dont think,but opinions are bound to be given,and just because some are giving their reasons why what happened to the OP "might" have been misconstrued,doesnt mean they arent sympathetic to her,i sympathise anyway,just had to say that,ramble alert!:policeman:Good job its only white wine and not scotch!:smile:

[RockDr]

There is a big difference between calling someone wog/pommie barsteward/kiwi sheep sh*gger/etc etc, and ignoring them or assuming the only job they can do is cleaning because of their skin colour, or worse (e.g. the guy mentionned in Stormgal's post).

 

The former is in my experience is more prevalent in Australia, in the UK people tend to keep that level of insulting but don't mean it banter for very close friends, rather than people they've just met. In australia it applies to everyone, this is a cultural difference, fair enough - provided it is meant in a banter way, rather than derogatory, tone of voice is everything.

 

The latter is unacceptable in any circumstances.

[pablo]

I agree - so I guess the question is, why do people allow themselves to be called names like, "greasy wog" "paki" "coloured" "the mad greek", "lazy abo" etc.

 

 

 

Probably? Despite being pretty blunt myself, but I would never call anyone's children "colored" "frizzy", etc. How will those children grow up to feel?

 

I met a woman online whose parents took her to Oz when she was about 6 years old. Despite being 100% British, the school kids teased her and called her "wog" because she has dark hair with dark white (almost olive skin). Even though she's a 100% pure English woman, someone always asks her "where are you from". When she says "From Australia/ Pommie" they say, "reeeaalllyy??" like almost sarcastic.

I can see how that experience has affected her - today she's almost 50. I won't elaborate but she's very race conscience up to the point of always commenting about it.

 

Today, I posted a question on another australian forum that had to do with migrating alone and feeling lonely/ and if anyone regrets moving due to missing back home, (which is really my biggest and only concern, really). Well lo and behold - someone of asian ancestry answers my post about how today he got spat on in the bus by a woman who insulted him with racial slurs, so now he definitely feels like heading home.

 

And by the way, let me make clear that I am not a race conscience pc person - my parents didn't bring me up that way. But it does make me feel bad when people are treated like less than human. Same applies to gender discrimination, etc. Maybe it's my having been bullied days back in grade school, I don't know, but I know it's not a pleasant feeling.

 

 

Look storm,i didnt really want to mention this incase i get any "woe is me" remarks,BUT im from a city that has a bad rep in england,ive worked all over england and heard the same boring quips ive heard a thousand times...."scouser on site,hide yer wallets lads",Scouser on site,we'l all be on strike next week" etc etc etc ad infinitum:SLEEP:

We actually make better quips/jokes up about ourselves tbh

Ive gone and booked into a hotel in london with 9 or 10 other lads from various cities,they may have been earlier or later booking in,"I" was the only one asked to pay in advance,same receptionist btw,now thats snide/judgemental.

Point im making is yer cant be too precious,i get it i give it back,ignorance and lack of tact DONT have to mean malicious

[Harpodom]

I went the cheap bifter shop the other month,ran by lads from Tajikistan i found out, because i asked them,might have been taken the wrong way by them,im a big lummox,skinhead,scars all over my head etc,so stereotypical nazi looking type,except im not.

Anyway,ended up having the craic with them,had a laff etc,on my way out one said "are you arabic?",i said "arabic,why arabic":goofy:,the one said "Q,Q,Q",i said "what d'yer mean"

He said "you say ck like ckqqqqqq,arabic Q",and they all laffed,so did i when i understood,wat he was taking the p7ss out of was my accent :mad::laugh:,because for instance CHICKEN ends up sounding like CHICKQQQQEN when spoke with my accent,something i cant help tbh.

The longwinded point:SLEEP: :dull:im trying to make is staightness CAN be a very good thing,it can break down barriers,people are sometimes TOO respectfull to the point its bordering on introverted,im talking about straightness,NOT racism btw,i dont like racism,like others have said,its HOW its said,only the OP knows that,none of us do

 

I'm like you in that respect (heaven forbid!).

 

I'm not scared to comment on things rather than ignoring the elephant in the room.

BUT, it's the way you do it. If you're friendly and cheeky that comes across in your body language etc, which breaks the ice. You can be forgiven many things with a bit of cheek!

So, like you I ask people where they're from. It's usually pretty obvious just by listening to someone talk whether they're born in Australia, UK or elsewhere. So if they've got a broad Aussie accent and I'm intrigued as to why they have blue eyes and dark skin (for example), but talk like Shane Warne, I might ask "where's your ancestry from?" out of sheer curiosity, but at an appropriate stage in the conversation.

 

BIG difference IMO to saying "some black woman outside is looking for you" or "you're fat, is that because you eat too much?" or "those kids can't be yours can they? they're a different colour"

[pablo]

I'm like you in that respect (heaven forbid!).

 

I'm not scared to comment on things rather than ignoring the elephant in the room.

BUT, it's the way you do it. If you're friendly and cheeky that comes across in your body language etc, which breaks the ice. You can be forgiven many things with a bit of cheek!

So, like you I ask people where they're from. It's usually pretty obvious just by listening to someone talk whether they're born in Australia, UK or elsewhere. So if they've got a broad Aussie accent and I'm intrigued as to why they have blue eyes and dark skin (for example), but talk like Shane Warne, I might ask "where's your ancestry from?" out of sheer curiosity, but at an appropriate stage in the conversation.

 

BIG difference IMO to saying "some black woman outside is looking for you" or "you're fat, is that because you eat too much?" or "those kids can't be yours can they? they're a different colour"

 

No,its a MASSIVE difference h,but it brings me back to the same thing,IS it just ignorant/tactless or malicious?because IF its one of the first two,i'd prefer it that way to the latter,none are perfect btw,but prefer ignorance to malice

[pablo]

I'm like you in that respect (heaven forbid!).

 

I'm not scared to comment on things rather than ignoring the elephant in the room.

BUT, it's the way you do it. If you're friendly and cheeky that comes across in your body language etc, which breaks the ice. You can be forgiven many things with a bit of cheek!

So, like you I ask people where they're from. It's usually pretty obvious just by listening to someone talk whether they're born in Australia, UK or elsewhere. So if they've got a broad Aussie accent and I'm intrigued as to why they have blue eyes and dark skin (for example), but talk like Shane Warne, I might ask "where's your ancestry from?" out of sheer curiosity, but at an appropriate stage in the conversation.

 

BIG difference IMO to saying "some black woman outside is looking for you" or "you're fat, is that because you eat too much?" or "those kids can't be yours can they? they're a different colour"

 

 

Dream on lah!:laugh::biggrin::wink:,jeeeeez i wish people would just stop replying to me so i can go to bed:wideeyed:,one more smoke,one tumbler of wine:no:,and im off!:policeman:

[Harpodom]

No,its a MASSIVE difference h,but it brings me back to the same thing,IS it just ignorant/tactless or malicious?because IF its one of the first two,i'd prefer it that way to the latter,none are perfect btw,but prefer ignorance to malice

 

YES!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!!

 

this doesn't make being on the receiving end suddenly OK though.