Leaving because of racism experience

[Guest guest57588]

This is more or less what im asking tho Tradie,WHY is it racist when BRIT isnt?

 

History Pabs. I blame The NF back in the 70's. I reckon it was them who used an abbreviation of the word Pakistani as a term of abuse, and because of the context it was used in, it stuck in peoples' consciousness, both victims and oppressors. Maybe it's the Brits and their evil empire who are the real villains here?!

[fish.01]

Fish can you really compare the generally lazy, ignorant racism that currently goes on in Oz with sectarian civil war that raged through the island of Ireland for the best part of 350 years on and off?. Oliver Cromwell pretty much instigated genocide in Ireland, the repercussions of which lasted centuries and is only now after enormous effort slowly being put right.

 

Overt criticisms of other races?. One of my lads mates not so long ago came back from a holiday in Bali. First time out of Aus and he came back cracking gags about Muslims and suicide bombers, how no one speaks english (in Bali!!), the women are ugly, the beer is p*ss etc. When I challenged him on all this he just shrugged and changed the subject to how good it was to be back in Aus (and away from the from the horrors and the flesh-pots) of Bali!), which makes me wonder how prevalent those views are.

 

I can't speak to how things currently are in the UK, but I don't think we can afford to be complacent.

 

Of course you can compare...with the lazy ignorant racism that goes on in the UK. Both countries have had their own unique challenges to deal with and both have had their successes and failures. No-one can say how the other country would have handled the challenge meted out to the other - but I suggest given their common cultures it would have been strangely similar when faced with the different challenges rather than as armchair commentators from a distance. A country that takes so long to fix a problem between people of the same race is not in a position to lecture a country that is working on how to resolve challenges faced by an ancient tribal people in remote areas with a totally different culture. I don't think there is a need to point out you could find a racist Australian, specially in small town Australia, the point is he has his opposite in the UK, just as I have my opposite.

[pablo]

History Pabs. I blame The NF back in the 70's. I reckon it was them who used an abbreviation of the word Pakistani as a term of abuse, and because of the context it was used in, it stuck in peoples' consciousness, both victims and oppressors. Maybe it's the Brits and their evil empire who are the real villains here?!

 

 

Tbh Tradie im not sure that we should let the lowest common denominator(IE the NF/BNP)dictate what word is racist or not,ok its easy enuf NOT to use the word,but they use it themselves,as i say i would really like pakistani members views on it tbh.

I mean because the NF used it in a racist/derogatory way, doesnt mean others are is what im saying,i mean it COULD just be viewed as an innocent abbreviation couldnt it?

I think quite simply there will allways be racists/bigots and ignorant people in every country in the world,we shouldnt ACCEPT this of course,but there allways will be,lets face it.

Even where i grew up there would be murder between catholic and protestant every marching season,it only really died out in the eighties.

I was working in town a cpl of yrs back with a catholic lad(scaffolder),at dinnertime he purposely walked thru the orange parade,he knew someone would say something and they did,Tommy headbutted the orangeman,shame mate,but there will allways be things like that go on sadly

[MARYROSE02]

Fish can you really compare the generally lazy, ignorant racism that currently goes on in Oz with sectarian civil war that raged through the island of Ireland for the best part of 350 years on and off?. Oliver Cromwell pretty much instigated genocide in Ireland, the repercussions of which lasted centuries and is only now after enormous effort slowly being put right.

 

Overt criticisms of other races?. One of my lads mates not so long ago came back from a holiday in Bali. First time out of Aus and he came back cracking gags about Muslims and suicide bombers, how no one speaks english (in Bali!!), the women are ugly, the beer is p*ss etc. When I challenged him on all this he just shrugged and changed the subject to how good it was to be back in Aus (and away from the from the horrors and the flesh-pots) of Bali!), which makes me wonder how prevalent those views are.

 

I can't speak to how things currently are in the UK, but I don't think we can afford to be complacent.

 

Could just as easily be a Pommie on holiday in Spain - do they travel for the culture, to use a foreign language, to explore Spain's rich history?

 

They go to get pissed and give GB a bad name.

[Guest stormgal]

If Australia was as racist as you say and it has been the same for many years, don't you think that news of that would be filtering back to the rest of the World?

 

Why do the refugee boats continue to head here?

 

I would not get into a car with a drunken driver. Why would anyone want to come to a racist country like this?

 

Who said that?? You need to talk to the OP, not once have I said that Australia was "as racist as you say".

 

But to answer your question - I imagine (as I'm not from that side of the world) that the boat people are probably escaping war or famine.

 

Would you rather live in a country full of war or famine? Or would you rather a country

where people make racist remarks due to lack of exposure?

 

Mary, Mary, quite contrary ... You need to acquire empathy for people. Doesn't mean that you should accept them in, or even live with them, but seriously look up the word, "empathy". The questions you ask and the conclusions that you draw from my comments make it seem as if you are resented. I am still unclear of what though.

 

How can you argue with the OP's experience? How can you say that what she went through wasn't real?

[Guest stormgal]

It would be interesting to find out if Pakistanis see paki as racist or just an abbreviation of the country?,same as brits for Britain,carry on,just thinking out loud.....................

 

Oh I know that George W. Bush got in big trouble when he used the word, "Pakis". :laugh:

[pablo]

Oh I know that George W. Bush got in big trouble when he used the word, "Pakis". :laugh:

Did he?:smile:cant remember that,probs the least of arl georges crimes i'd have thought tho!

[Iron Chef]

My wife and I lived in Japan for two years, and once the veneer of polite Japanese culture was stripped away, then the xenophobia was apparent. As a western male, I could have one whole side of a train to myself while everyone else crammed on to the seat opposite me.

 

Note that I use the term xenophobia rather than racism? Japan, for all its international trade, is amazing monocultural. I think the foreign population sits at something like 0.5% of the total population, so when they react the way they do to foreigners, it's more often than not out of lack of experience in such situations.

 

When Vietnamese refugee boats started arriving here in the 1970s, my grandfather couldn't stand them - to use his words "they all drive around in bloody Volvos (an expensive car here!)". I can tell you, aside from a couple of Asian-looking people he might've seen in the street, he would never have had any contact with anyone of Asian background in his life.

 

As a 40 year old, I never had anyone of Asian descent in my school, so it wasn't until university that I made friends with a few Vietnamese guys - once my grandfather got to meet them, the turnaround in his opinion was quite amazing. Sure he said some things to my mates that made me cringe, but like I said, the comments were usually born from naivety as much as anything else. But it proves that it's only through personal experience with other cultures that the stereotypes are broken.

 

Most people of Gen X age and older in Australia went through life only ever mixing with others of European descent, especially at school. At the school my wife currently teaches at, I think they had, at last count, students from nearly 30 different nationalities, and over a third of the school came from families with a non-English speaking background.

 

I often teach there as a supply teacher, and I have to say, I'm greatly positive about the future when I see how the kids interact with one another, and how race is completely a non-issue for them. To paraphrase Martin Luther King, they judge each other on the content of their character, not on the colour of their skin.

[Guest stormgal]

 

As a 40 year old, I never had anyone of Asian descent in my school, so it wasn't until university that I made friends with a few Vietnamese guys - once my grandfather got to meet them, the turnaround in his opinion was quite amazing. Sure he said some things to my mates that made me cringe, but like I said, the comments were usually born from naivety as much as anything else. But it proves that it's only through personal experience with other cultures that the stereotypes are broken.

 

Most people of Gen X age and older in Australia went through life only ever mixing with others of European descent, especially at school....

 

 

This is exactly what I meant with my first comment. The apparent racism that exists in Australia (and it does exist just as it does in other countries), is not born out of hatred but out of lack of exposure and education. As offensive as it may sound, it is the truth and I still stand by my statement. It's true that all countries are racist in their own ways. Class systems in India, ethnic wars in Serbia, etc etc. Some of it is based on hate, some on ignorance, and others on culture - i.e. birthright, culture, male/female differences, etc.

 

I once met someone from Perth who migrated to the place I live - young guy working as a bartender - the first thing that came out of his mouth to my friend and I was, "I'd never go to that neighborhood because the people of that background are ...."

 

Now, my friend and I grew up in precisely "that neighborhood", and although it has changed considerably from the time we've grown up there - the fact he made those negative broad comments in public and then while on the job while we were the customers there was shocking to us. Of course, I had to dismiss his ignorance because he doesn't know any better.

 

You should have seen the look on perth guy's face when we told him we're both from "that neighborhood" - his eyes opened so wide and he gasped - I thought the poor kid was going to have a heart attack. This is the kind of situation I'm talking about - they just don't know any better so they act only on what they've been taught, mostly by their parents, childhood friends, etc.

[Petals]

Reading through the thread and I have contributed to it as well, to me it would seem we are a cross section of the community and the result is not much agreement. Guess this is why society is so interesting and why governments change.

 

We can debate till the cows come home but we never really know what a person thinks.

[Guest guest57588]

Of course you can compare...with the lazy ignorant racism that goes on in the UK. Both countries have had their own unique challenges to deal with and both have had their successes and failures. No-one can say how the other country would have handled the challenge meted out to the other - but I suggest given their common cultures it would have been strangely similar when faced with the different challenges rather than as armchair commentators from a distance. A country that takes so long to fix a problem between people of the same race is not in a position to lecture a country that is working on how to resolve challenges faced by an ancient tribal people in remote areas with a totally different culture. I don't think there is a need to point out you could find a racist Australian, specially in small town Australia, the point is he has his opposite in the UK, just as I have my opposite.

 

I take your point, and the Britain I remember is certainly not a happy melting pot of races and cultures where everyone loves thy neighbour, but I don't think we can be complacent. When that 'Blackface' episode happened, the media in Aus did take a bit of a "Who, us?, racist?, never!" type attitude which doesn't help. Instead, there was a lot of hot air about how dare the Yanks (because of Harry Connicks involvement) and Brits lecture us about racism, which I think was a case of going on the offensive instead of reflecting a bit more maturely on this issue. Yeah other western countries do have a troubled history with regard to racism, but it doesn't mean we can't get our own house in order.

[Guest guest57588]

Could just as easily be a Pommie on holiday in Spain - do they travel for the culture, to use a foreign language, to explore Spain's rich history?

 

They go to get pissed and give GB a bad name.

 

Absolutely right, and something to be ashamed of as a nation. I used to wince at em shouting at the locals for not speaking english - in their own country, demanding english beer and all-day breakfast, complaining about how it wasn't as good as home and generally taking the attitude that the 3rd World began at Calais. A national embarassment.

[Guest Bazinga]

I've grown up in London and a very mixed part of it to be exact. Where my son when to nursery he was one of two white British children out of a class of 26. I think that's fantastic. HUGE mix of children who did actually mix together and socialise out of school. The school he's in now is not so mixed but he at 5 just doesn't seem to see colour or differences. The only thing he notices is hair - he's cross his hair won't do plaits/cornrow like his mates.

 

It worries me that moving my children to Australia where they maybe won't have opportunities to mix with children from such diverse walks of life will make them xenophobic/racist just by default/ignorance.

[Harpodom]

I was just reading in the paper today that in Pakistan a woman can be sentenced to be raped merely because her menfolk suspect her of being immoral.

 

And of course just last week in England there was that Asian couple who have been charged with murdering their own daughter because she brought shame on the family.

 

Being called a 'Paki' seems pretty low on the scale compared to that.

 

What's your point mary?

[fish.01]

I take your point, and the Britain I remember is certainly not a happy melting pot of races and cultures where everyone loves thy neighbour, but I don't think we can be complacent. When that 'Blackface' episode happened, the media in Aus did take a bit of a "Who, us?, racist?, never!" type attitude which doesn't help. Instead, there was a lot of hot air about how dare the Yanks (because of Harry Connicks involvement) and Brits lecture us about racism, which I think was a case of going on the offensive instead of reflecting a bit more maturely on this issue. Yeah other western countries do have a troubled history with regard to racism, but it doesn't mean we can't get our own house in order.

 

Naturally Australia can't be complacement and most people don't think it should be, it is a constant battle. But likewise giving a false impression of Australia leads to some of the silly patronising posts you often see on here.

[fish.01]

...

It worries me that moving my children to Australia where they maybe won't have opportunities to mix with children from such diverse walks of life will make them xenophobic/racist just by default/ignorance.

 

No offence but have you ever been to Sydney or Melbourne?

[MARYROSE02]

Who said that?? You need to talk to the OP, not once have I said that Australia was "as racist as you say".

 

But to answer your question - I imagine (as I'm not from that side of the world) that the boat people are probably escaping war or famine.

 

Would you rather live in a country full of war or famine? Or would you rather a country

where people make racist remarks due to lack of exposure?

 

Mary, Mary, quite contrary ... You need to acquire empathy for people. Doesn't mean that you should accept them in, or even live with them, but seriously look up the word, "empathy". The questions you ask and the conclusions that you draw from my comments make it seem as if you are resented. I am still unclear of what though.

 

How can you argue with the OP's experience? How can you say that what she went through wasn't real?

 

Perhaps they are fleeing not war or famine but far worse racism than they will ever face in a country like Australia?

 

Perhaps they have heard about how they will be able to live in a country where they will NOT be discriminated against because of their colour/religion/gender/caste.

 

What is this mysterious 'lack of exposure' that affects Australia but not UK/USA?

 

Does Australia need to experience the race riots that are so common in both UK/USA in order to acquire this exposure?

 

I will always empathise with other people's experiences of racism or any kind of discrimination. I do not doubt the OP's unpleasant experiences in Australia. What I challenge is the assertion that it is endemic in Australia and it is caused by our 'lack of exposure'.

 

In the USA up until the 1960's black people in the US southern states were still expected to live separate and lesser lives, relegated for instance to the back of the bus.

 

My own experiences of discrimination working in the UK in the 70's consisted of a constant barrage of unwanted questions/allegations about my sexuality at the hands of the unpleasant men i worked with.

 

I fully expected Australia to be FAR worse and it was a very VERY pleasant surprise to find that Aussies were not the slightest bit interested in what I did or didn't do in my private life.

 

When I see some facts that prove the higher rates of all forms of discrimination that allegedly exist in Australia than the rest of the developed world I will stop 'tilting at your windmill!'

[amibovered]

If Australia was as racist as you say and it has been the same for many years, don't you think that news of that would be filtering back to the rest of the World?

 

 

It has

UN rights chief slams 'racist' Australia

 

 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/un-rights-chief-slams-racist-australia-20110526-1f4yy.html

 

Does Australia need to experience the race riots that are so common in both UK/USA in order to acquire this exposure?

 

 

Nope it already has, have you forgotten the 2005 Cronulla race riots?

 

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/12/12/1134235970427.html

[Harpodom]

This is more or less what im asking tho Tradie,WHY is it racist when BRIT isnt?

 

there's history to it mate, as you know. there is a certain poster on here who delights in referring to Brists as Poms but in a derogatory way, as in "whingeing poms" etc. It's loaded with meaning. It's not the word, it's the context.

 

Now if what TH is saying is true re the Pakistan team, then the broadcasters were being arrogant and rude by blatantly ignoring the request to not use the word 'Paki'.

 

I agree with posters who've said that Australia isn't any more racist than Britain but unfortunately celebrates the 'art' of calling a spade a spade (regardless of whether the spade would prefer to be called a shovel). In this respect it lags behind Britain, and many people on here celebrate that.

 

The whole reason the 'PC Brigade' came into existence is the fact that people on the receiving end of words like 'Paki' and 'darkie' and 'joey' and 'flid' had had enough and managed to change things over time.

 

The same is happening here: Australia is no longer a toddler.

[Salma]

Very intersting topic I normally dont read any that go on for so many pages but it struck a cord with me as I am second generation person of Pakistani\kashmiri origin who is married to an anglo-saxon australian and moving to Syd in November with our 7 month old son.

 

It is a worry as it was the first thing my family said aren't australian racist obvioulsy not my husbands family as they have accepted me into the family (even his conversion to Islam).

I do worry about my little boy but as i do not want him to suffer at the hands of bigots as he doesn't have blue eyes or blonde hair like his dad but is dark eyed\olive skin but it will be our job (mine n my husbands to make him understand he is different and how deals with it). In my sons short life in the uk I have had gone to the chemists to collect his prescription and the chemist calls his name out ignoring me even though I was the person there as I possibly couldnt have a child with a "white" surname. Then a incident at the local hospital where they assumed they got the spelling of the surname wrong as how can my child (husband wasn't with me) have a "white" surname. So I have experienced this in england and my sister in law has also expereinced the same in reverse (she is white with children with muslim names) so it can happen everywhere.

 

The term "paki" I do find it offensive and it cannot be explained like brit or aussie as neither of those terms havent been used to try intimidate people or run them out of areas etc. There was a popular passtime in the 70's called paki bashing and I don't think anyone who has suffered that or knows someone who has will find the term paki as just an abbriviation.

[Iron Chef]

With respect to the 'Paki' argument, I have to laugh at the irony, presuming it was the British who coined it as a derogatory phrase in the first place. Most Aussies would have no idea that it even causes offence. I certainly doubt the local Pakistani community would take any offence to it because in Australia, there aren't the same racial overtones. Assuming what has been said is true about the commentators, bear in mind they are all ex-cricketers from 20 years ago and whenever they were touring, referring to the Pakistani team as 'Pakis' would have been the norm. If they'd been told not to use the term and still did, it would be out of habit, not out of a willful defiance of the directive.

 

Like I said initially, in the end it doesn't matter whether we think its offensive or not, it's whether the person on the receiving end of it does, and presuming the Australian commentary was broadcast in the UK, I suspect the complaints came from the UK, not from Australia.

 

As for the Hey Hey It's Saturday skit from a few years ago, the reason it was done was because it was a re-enactment of a skit from the first show back in the early '80s. A salutary lesson in how times changed in the 25 years or so in between the two shows. As far as my circle of friends was concerned, the decision to run it was a fairly stupid one, but not one done with racist intent. We sure as hell saw how bad it made us look as a country on the world stage, and I'm very glad Harry Connick Jr spoke up - if people don't then the racist comments and actions (regardless of whether they're accidental or deliberate) will continue. I should also point out that in ratings terms, the show (which was an old show from the '80s that made a comeback) never recovered from that debacle, and was canned after about 5 episodes.

 

The SMH article is worth looking at, partly because of bias of the Murdoch Media group - again, ironic that it's Murdoch's papers that feed the mistrust and fear of other cultures, particularly with relation to asylum seekers. But it's also worth watching the responses in the video, particularly the Greens Party, which I would argue actually represents the views of the vast majority of Australians on the issue rather than the major parties. I agree with the the UNHCR on off-shore processing - it has long-lasting negative effects on those who come here in desperate need, and as has been proven recently, also illegal under our current laws. Most people I know think off-shore processing is inhumane, as is making asylum seekers wait two years to be processed, but my circle of friends is also smart enough to understand that the media is unashamedly right wing in this country and doesn't represent a true cross section of the people on a vast number of issues. The media takes a certain stance, then when people buy the BS they're being fed, regurgitate it back to the media for quotes in future papers. A self-fulfilling prophesy at its worst.

[Harpodom]

With respect to the 'Paki' argument, I have to laugh at the irony, presuming it was the British who coined it as a derogatory phrase in the first place. Most Aussies would have no idea that it even causes offence. I certainly doubt the local Pakistani community would take any offence to it because in Australia, there aren't the same racial overtones. Assuming what has been said is true about the commentators, bear in mind they are all ex-cricketers from 20 years ago and whenever they were touring, referring to the Pakistani team as 'Pakis' would have been the norm. If they'd been told not to use the term and still did, it would be out of habit, not out of a willful defiance of the directive.

 

Like I said initially, in the end it doesn't matter whether we think its offensive or not, it's whether the person on the receiving end of it does, and presuming the Australian commentary was broadcast in the UK, I suspect the complaints came from the UK, not from Australia.

 

As for the Hey Hey It's Saturday skit from a few years ago, the reason it was done was because it was a re-enactment of a skit from the first show back in the early '80s. A salutary lesson in how times changed in the 25 years or so in between the two shows. As far as my circle of friends was concerned, the decision to run it was a fairly stupid one, but not one done with racist intent. We sure as hell saw how bad it made us look as a country on the world stage, and I'm very glad Harry Connick Jr spoke up - if people don't then the racist comments and actions (regardless of whether they're accidental or deliberate) will continue. I should also point out that in ratings terms, the show (which was an old show from the '80s that made a comeback) never recovered from that debacle, and was canned after about 5 episodes.

 

The SMH article is worth looking at, partly because of bias of the Murdoch Media group - again, ironic that it's Murdoch's papers that feed the mistrust and fear of other cultures, particularly with relation to asylum seekers. But it's also worth watching the responses in the video, particularly the Greens Party, which I would argue actually represents the views of the vast majority of Australians on the issue rather than the major parties. I agree with the the UNHCR on off-shore processing - it has long-lasting negative effects on those who come here in desperate need, and as has been proven recently, also illegal under our current laws. Most people I know think off-shore processing is inhumane, as is making asylum seekers wait two years to be processed, but my circle of friends is also smart enough to understand that the media is unashamedly right wing in this country and doesn't represent a true cross section of the people on a vast number of issues. The media takes a certain stance, then when people buy the BS they're being fed, regurgitate it back to the media for quotes in future papers. A self-fulfilling prophesy at its worst.

 

I think you're right mate. The Australian media are woefully out of touch; despite all the 'Aussie battlers giving jobs to battling Aussie families doing it tough' crap which insinuates that forgeigners are not welcome, most Australians are very tolerant and accepting of other races and cultures.

 

I have witnessed some fairly 'ripe' racist and/or xenophobic language from Aussie working class boguns, but TBH it's no different to what you'd get in the UK.

Australia is NOT a racist country IMO, BUT it does need to move with the times. It IS doing so, but I do feel some on here (mostly poms funnily enough) would prefer it not to.......

[MARYROSE02]

It has

http://www.smh.com.au/world/un-rights-chief-slams-racist-australia-20110526-1f4yy.html

 

 

 

Nope it already has, have you forgotten the 2005 Cronulla race riots?

 

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/12/12/1134235970427.html

 

Is this the same UN that regularly invites the likes of North Korea, Zimbabwe, Libya, etc., to chair various human rights bodies?

 

I was living in the UK when the Cronulla riots took place. They were unpleasant but they weren't a reaction by ethnic communities to decades of perceived ill-treatment by the 'host community'.

 

From what I understand, you could cast the blame equally at white Aussies around Cronulla and Lebanese Aussies around Punchbowl.

 

In any case, by comparison to the race riots in the UK in the 80's it's like comparing The Lake District to The Himalayas.

 

The Murdoch Press is right wing but no more than their Pommie stable-mates - The Times & The Sun. I read The Australian because it reminds me of The Times and I like looking at (not SOLVING) The Times Crossword and reading Doonesbury.

 

There is no Manchester Guardian in OZ it's true but the Fairfax Press is a counter-weight to Murdoch. And if you don't want to listen to 2GB you can always listen to ABC 702.

 

Living in Sydney I am always conscious of being a part of a melting pot of different races and communities. Walk a kilometre one way and I'm in Chinatown, a kilometre another and I'm in the middle of Australia's largest gay community. 100 yards from my home is a mosque. Aborigines live just up the road. My local stores are run by Chinese, Indonesians, Iraqis and even an 'Aussie!' I know where to eat Lebanese, Indian, Turkish, Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Argentine, Mexican, Nepalese, Italian, Vietnamese but I don't know where to get a Macca!

[Guest stormgal]

Perhaps they are fleeing not war or famine but far worse racism than they will ever face in a country like Australia?

 

Perhaps they have heard about how they will be able to live in a country where they will NOT be discriminated against because of their colour/religion/gender/caste.

 

 

 

Yes, you are probably right. You will never know unless you stop assuming and ask them directly. However, the subject of this thread is not about the "boat people" but of the OP's experience. Why is the OP even lumped together with the boat people who have arrived illegally? The OP - who came to Australia legally, sounds like a cosmopolitan woman with an educated and professional background. Her migrating to Australia - both her and her husband would have contributed to the economy of the country.

 

 

What is this mysterious 'lack of exposure' that affects Australia but not UK/USA?

 

 

Good question and upon reading the threads here and at other forums, I've actually asked it myself. I would guess the isolated positioning of the continent, or the people mingling within themselves for a very very long time? Other thoughts could be the population density being small - I don't know.

 

Does Australia need to experience the race riots that are so common in both UK/USA in order to acquire this exposure?

 

 

Based on your question - which is probably made under sarcasm (but out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks) you feel that non whites will create chaos wherever they go. That's why you were quick to answer me saying that you think I think that only nonwhites cause racism - even though all I was doing was defending my country from being "worse in race relations" than Australia. lol

 

If you feel that a certain race/ culture/ racial makeup of an individual will create chaos and race riots, then perhaps you should take that up with the government and ask them to change their policy to accommodate your request. Nothing wrong with that - you don't like policy, complain to your government.

 

But once inside the borders, people don't deserve to be called names, shunned, identified with disgust by the color of their skin, not given employment or housing because you and others like you believe that a person's genetic makeup is inferior and causes them to behave in certain ways that are not compatible with western culture.

 

 

I will always empathise with other people's experiences of racism or any kind of discrimination.

 

Why were you so defensive even though all I was doing was defending my country as being "more racist than Australia" - as someone here had posted. Your comments accusing me of being racist were as if you had that script made up and were ready to use it against anyone whom you perceived were someone who fit some "boat person" mold - only you lashed out against a fourth generation yank - now that's some funny stuff.

 

I do not doubt the OP's unpleasant experiences in Australia. What I challenge is the assertion that it is endemic in Australia and it is caused by our 'lack of exposure'.

 

In the USA up until the 1960's black people in the US southern states were still expected to live separate and lesser lives, relegated for instance to the back of the bus.

 

True. But guess what? We've had greats like Rosa Parks, Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton (who have fought women's discrimination) and others who have actually spoken up about the treatment of people. That is why people do not blurt out, "Oh where are your colored kids" or, "How does it feel to be a woman in a man's job?" or other cynical questions that are well-known to be rude and personal.

 

Now that we're on the subject, can you tell me why the Aboriginals are so silent despite their horrific treatment? Where is their version of Martin Luther King Jr? I suspect, of course, I could be wrong - that there is some sort of Stockholm syndrome involved - where people are told that they are inferior, and well, they believe it, so they act out the role. That is why people are accepting of names like, "Wog", "Paki", "Colored" etc. Only smart people who think higher of themselves and won't stand the abuse would speak out against it. Otherwise people would continue tolerating the abuse, and would see it as "friendly".

[amibovered]

Is this the same UN that regularly invites the likes of North Korea, Zimbabwe, Libya, etc., to chair various human rights bodies?

 

I was living in the UK when the Cronulla riots took place. They were unpleasant but they weren't a reaction by ethnic communities to decades of perceived ill-treatment by the 'host community'.

 

From what I understand, you could cast the blame equally at white Aussies around Cronulla and Lebanese Aussies around Punchbowl.

 

In any case, by comparison to the race riots in the UK in the 80's it's like comparing The Lake District to The Himalayas.

 

The Murdoch Press is right wing but no more than their Pommie stable-mates - The Times & The Sun. I read The Australian because it reminds me of The Times and I like looking at (not SOLVING) The Times Crossword and reading Doonesbury.

 

There is no Manchester Guardian in OZ it's true but the Fairfax Press is a counter-weight to Murdoch. And if you don't want to listen to 2GB you can always listen to ABC 702.

 

Living in Sydney I am always conscious of being a part of a melting pot of different races and communities. Walk a kilometre one way and I'm in Chinatown, a kilometre another and I'm in the middle of Australia's largest gay community. 100 yards from my home is a mosque. Aborigines live just up the road. My local stores are run by Chinese, Indonesians, Iraqis and even an 'Aussie!' I know where to eat Lebanese, Indian, Turkish, Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Argentine, Mexican, Nepalese, Italian, Vietnamese but I don't know where to get a Macca!

 

There we go then, the UN are just wrong, there was no racial element in the Cronulla riots, it was all made up by the press and I guess no Indian students were bashed just because they were from India, good I'm delighted to find that there is no racism in Australia.