loubeany Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I agree oz is expensive with all the moving and visas etc... I would suggest you delay oz and sort your current situation first. By doing this you can look forward to a brighter future in Oz only my opinion but would seem the obvious way to deal with it. Running away is not an option in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ozcans Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Forgive me for being blunt, but, you are pregnant you have negative equity you have £35k debt How are you going to get to Australia?? Do you have the flight money? The rent money? Car money? Is the job guaranteed? Someone to help with the birth/baby? Money to buy baby things? And that is WITHOUT anything going wrong. (Post-natal depression/home sickness/unemployment/lack of money/no friends) It seems like a long list of life changing issues that you are hoping to achieve without sorting out the life you have at the moment. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Not really sure why we blame the bank for our troubles. All of us have entered into a loan contract willingly. No one put a gun to our heads. We signed a contract, and know we will pay interest and fees. The bank didn't coerce us into borrowing from them. So absolutely agree, it is the right and moral thing to do to pay back our borrowings. If the boot was on the other foot, if you lent someone a sum of money and they ran away and didn't pay you back, you would be mightily pissed. Westons. I'm not directing this comment to you so please don't take offence. I'm aiming it at the posters who seem to think the banks are the bad guys for lending us money when we asked them too. Best post on the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 snip IMHO and from my experience, if you are thinking you aren't able to clear the debt rather than just leaving it, file for bankruptcy. It will tie up all loose ends and will (if the companies aren't complete idiots (unfortunately a lot are though)) mean that it all drops off after 6 years automatically. You will have to declare it always on big applications should you come back, but with more and more people declaring nowadays it is not the complete barrier to finance it once was. (I speak as someone who had to go bankrupt a while back now for very long and boring reasons so am very well versed with the ins and outs of it and the real life implications it brings). If you do come back, in reality you will probably have to do some clean up with Bankruptcy still, as most companies don't play by the rules, however its a system of writing a couple of letters to standard templates, and it will get sorted sooner or later - and with the law on your side. . Just as a matter of interest, are you allowed to leave the country as a bankrupt? I was talking with someone the other day who would love to return to his home country from Australia but as he declared bankruptcy a couple of years ago, is not allowed to leave the country without permission from the trustees and according to the guidelines, there has to be evidence of extenuating circumstances for that to be given. To the OP, I would think very carefully about walking out owing lots of money - you never know what is around the corner and whether you may need to rebuild your lives back in UK. Also, if you dont have reasonable financial liquidity to begin with you are seriously going to struggle to get on your feet here. The sensible option would be to sort out your finances, get back on your feet financially and then (and only then) think about moving across the world to a foreign country. Good luck, it does sound like you are in a bit of a pickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 A lot of good, unbiased advice being offered here - not least of which concerns the apparent lack of resources available to fund your move. However, I don't know if you have that covered so will not comment further. If your primary concern about your house not selling is that you won't be able to pay off your loans but would still be able to afford the move, I'd advise that you rent it out to cover your mortgage and worry about the loans later. Your creditors cannot touch you in Australia and whilst I'm not suggesting that you do not make some attempt to repay your debts, at least you'll have some breathing space once you're here to negotiate on your terms and not be bullied into ill-advised decisions by threats of court action. Finally one thing I'd maybe consider changing is not posting both of your (full) names as well as the (fairly small) city in which you're currently living. You don't know who's reading these forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six it Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 ok.. so for credit card debts and simple contracts its 6 years of not acknowledging or paying a debt before it drops off your credit rating ( 5 in Scotland) but 12 years for mortgages the morals of it are all up to you.. only you have to live with this.. so you have to make the choice.. if you want more specific advice.. have a look at the consumer action group forum.. they have all the up to date knowledge and people going through the same issues both domestically (UK) and in OZ they have an overseas board for these sort of questions Overseas Debt/Overseas Account issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UFO Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I have spoken advisor because I still a have fair bit of my student loan to pay. The debt agentcy can only track you if you have filed a leaving uk tax form. This a shock, can anybody confirm this? The advisor mentioned they use your ni number to tract you because you have filed the leaving uk form, your uk tax status is flagged . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I have met a lot of people in Australia who have run away from their problems. It never works. Problems need to be dealt with. Australia is hot with nice beaches. It's not paradise - problems will not disappear. After saying that though, I have always thought about buying a complete household of stuff on credit - plus a couple of cars, maxing out the credit cards - loading it all into a container and dissappearing back to Oz. It seems like a wonderful idea. But as my wife points out - CRB checks will also check out the UK side of things. Credit checks can and may check out the UK. Details are international - so credit cards and loans of any type may be hard to get. So she wont let me - tempting as it is. As for the comments about the banks being innocent. If you loosen the credit rules, you will cause the price of assets to inflate. That's why we are mostly two income households now, whereas our parents were single income families. Not because we want to be, but because the banks want us to be; they make more money that way. Banks lend, knowing that a proportion will be distressed. They factor that proportion in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Westons Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Found a cash buyer, thank god for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It may seem appealing to move abroad to escape UK debts, the person in debt can run but they can't always hide. Creditors have been known to stop chasing those they can't find, however moving abroad doesn't always mean they can't find the debtor. Creditors use the following tactics to trace debtors, talking to neighbours at their debtor's last known address and tracing their activity through using cash. In some cases creditors have relations with other credit companies in that country, making it easier for them to find you. Once the creditor knows which country you are in, they can trace you relatively quickly and start pursuing you for the debt. So it may seem a good idea to move abroad and leave your debts behind, but the creditors can and probably will find you and demand the debt is repaid. plus they will put large intrest on your debts that you will have to pay eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It may seem appealing to move abroad to escape UK debts, the person in debt can run but they can't always hide. Creditors have been known to stop chasing those they can't find, however moving abroad doesn't always mean they can't find the debtor. Creditors use the following tactics to trace debtors, talking to neighbours at their debtor's last known address and tracing their activity through using cash. In some cases creditors have relations with other credit companies in that country, making it easier for them to find you. Once the creditor knows which country you are in, they can trace you relatively quickly and start pursuing you for the debt. So it may seem a good idea to move abroad and leave your debts behind, but the creditors can and probably will find you and demand the debt is repaid.plus they will put large intrest on your debts that you will have to pay eventually. I thought everyone has said its not enforcable from oz?IF it isnt i dont suppose he's ars7d is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I thought everyone has said its not enforcable from oz?IF it isnt i dont suppose he's ars7d is he? It is though Pablo, they can find you anywhere. Some of the things that can happen. The debt can be sold to a debt collection company in the country you are moving to and they will then pursue you for the debt, (they can be very aggressive though their powers depend on local laws and can be very limited) As soon as you return to the UK and your credit file is activated again, agencies will attempt to collect the debt again and you could be convicted of fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Found a cash buyer, thank god for that Glad to hear it. For your peace of mind more than anything else. I don't go in for the moral high ground when it comes to walking away or not but also don't criticise those who do. Each to their own. However, should the sale fall through (and I hope against hope that it does not) then I would suggest looking at renting the house out on an interest only buy to let mortgage. This allows you to pay the interest part of the mortgage and also gives you additional income in the UK to make a contribution to the creditors based upon the difference between the rental income and the mortgage payment. Once the other debt has been sorted then you can start to pay the difference off the capital aspect of the mortgage. Who knows, house prices may have then recovered enough that negative equity is not an issue. Be careful of bankruptcy at the moment simply because the official receiver would ask all your assets be declared and any money you have set aside for Oz would be included in your assets and could be taken by the receiver for payment of your creditors. An IVA may be a better option as there will be light at the end of the tunnel and a set payment at the end of each month which you can budget for. Regarding the comments about the banks, I fully agree that people are only given loans which are requested but the banks also have an obligation to be responsible lenders. Lets just say that in my opinion a good many of them have been less than ethical when it came to loans prior to the credit/liquidity crunch especially where it came to sub-prime mortgages. Their own profits came way before their obligation to their customers. To a certain degree then I say that they have partly brought these situations on themselves. Just my opinion but based upon my three years as an Accountant with one of the larger UK banks. Good luck and I hope it all turns out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is though Pablo, they can find you anywhere. No they can't. They are debt collection companies, not the CIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 It is though Pablo, they can find you anywhere. lol,find you yes no doubt,but can they make him pay??????i had a mate who went over there well loaded,went with about 4 times what i have,bricky,earns good $ himself and his wife a specialist nurse on good $,while he was still in the uk he took out two big loans,a 7K credit card AND furnished his new house in oz with the card,hasnt paid a penny back as far as i know,and his bro reckons the CC people only hassled him a few times,so thats his story anyway,i wont judge people re paying back banks etc tbh,for many if its a choice between the bank or giving their family a better start/life in oz then they'l choose family wont they?i dont get worked up or indignant about it all,because tbh i can understand them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 No they can't. They are debt collection companies, not the CIA. They can mate and they do, they will just not let money go that easy, there are some creditors and collection agencies that have their network in different countries and they gather information about the debtors from the banks in continuing collection efforts. returning to the UK will trigger your return and they will be after the person who owes money, if people can live with that worry that's up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It is though Pablo, they can find you anywhere. Some of the things that can happen. The debt can be sold to a debt collection company in the country you are moving to and they will then pursue you for the debt, (they can be very aggressive though their powers depend on local laws and can be very limited) As soon as you return to the UK and your credit file is activated again, agencies will attempt to collect the debt again and you could be convicted of fraud. (Almost) all good until the last bit I'm afraid. Yes - in these days of social media such as Facebook etc, finding someone isn't too much of a problem and ... Yes - A UK consumer debt can be sold to a sufficiently greedy and / or stupid overseas DCA but unless a court order (ie a CCJ) has already been granted in the UK there is no way it will ever be enforceable in a foreign court - and even if it were possible the costs to the DCA would be prohibitive as the entire case would need to be heard by a court that was fully conversant with UK consumer credit legislation. The exceptions to this are crown debts. However, it is more likely that the debt will remain in the UK but an overseas agency will be tasked with chasing the errant debtor in which case their options for enforcement drop to an absolute zero. Some foreign DCAs may be "very agressive" but so what? At the end of the day it's still the same noise and hot air that UK DCAs blow out of their fundaments but with the added twist that they can't actually do anything to back up their threats! You may also find that legislation controlling the actions of DCAs are far more strict in other countries than the UK where the govt does little or nothing to enforce its own legislation regarding unfair debt collection practices. but as for fraud? No - Unless someone deliberately misled the bank by giving falsified information and had no intention of ever repaying their debt, owing money is not a criminal offence. True enough, a return to the UK will almost certainly lead to DCAs catching up with a debtor sooner or later but assuming the debt isn't statute barred, enforcement of the debt would remain a civil matter. I'm not advocating non-repayment of debts, just trying to clear up the many lies and misconceptions invariably spouted by those who are too blinkered by moral indignation to listen to facts or try to understand how people just like them suddenly find themselves in a situation not of their making where they simply cannot afford to make ends meet. Surely it cannot be denied that it is at these times that they ought to know the facts needed to take a stand against the banks, credit card lenders and DCAs who would quite deliberately drive them to despair, desperation or worse all in the name of profit? Around 7 years ago I said that if anyone can provide PROOF of a UK consumer debt being enforced in an overseas court rather than recycled hearsay evidence from "someone who told me about someone they knew who read it in the paper" I'll glady admit I'm wrong. I'm no longer holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 lol,find you yes no doubt,but can they make him pay??????i had a mate who went over there well loaded,went with about 4 times what i have,bricky,earns good $ himself and his wife a specialist nurse on good $,while he was still in the uk he took out two big loans,a 7K credit card AND furnished his new house in oz with the card,hasnt paid a penny back as far as i know,and his bro reckons the CC people only hassled him a few times,so thats his story anyway,i wont judge people re paying back banks etc tbh,for many if its a choice between the bank or giving their family a better start/life in oz then they'l choose family wont they?i dont get worked up or indignant about it all,because tbh i can understand them Sounds like he is a thief. Obtaining money by deception and could well be charged by the police if caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Sounds like he is a thief. Obtaining money by deception and could well be charged by the police if caught. Yeah i thought it would be fraud,got hiis visa and THEN took out loans with no intention of paying back,but he's had no hassle. Saying that we havnt spoke since the athens CL final of 07(he flew from oz),he was allways volatile,like a two bob rocket,yer never knew when he was gonna go off,had an argument with him over in athens and we havnt bothered since,we allways ended up nose to nose:laugh:,hard work he was,he's had a load of scraps in perth allready,allways seems to come up smelling of roses tho,his last hse is on the market for $1.6 mill,so crime does pay?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest humpy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 But as my wife points out - CRB checks will also check out the UK side of things. Credit checks can and may check out the UK. Details are international - so credit cards and loans of any type may be hard to get. So she wont let me - tempting as it is. . . A CRB check only checks for a criminal past, being in debt is consumer law not criminal, An aussie company cant do a credit check in the UK due to the data prptection act, I had a shocking credit history in UK due to a failed business, I now have a mortgage and a good credit history in Oz. I also know of someone who owed money to HSBC in UK, they left a large debt, they have a credit card with same company in OZ, strange but true. Details are not international, they stay within the country where the debt is made, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glad I Moved Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 . I also know of someone who owed money to HSBC in UK, they left a large debt, they have a credit card with same company in OZ, strange but true. Not strange really - they might have the same name and logo but as far as their High St customers are concerned, that's where any connection between HSBC in the UK and Australia ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saz71 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just as a matter of interest, are you allowed to leave the country as a bankrupt? I was talking with someone the other day who would love to return to his home country from Australia but as he declared bankruptcy a couple of years ago, is not allowed to leave the country without permission from the trustees and according to the guidelines, there has to be evidence of extenuating circumstances for that to be given. To the OP, I would think very carefully about walking out owing lots of money - you never know what is around the corner and whether you may need to rebuild your lives back in UK. Also, if you dont have reasonable financial liquidity to begin with you are seriously going to struggle to get on your feet here. The sensible option would be to sort out your finances, get back on your feet financially and then (and only then) think about moving across the world to a foreign country. Good luck, it does sound like you are in a bit of a pickle. This is what we are doing - we're applying for our 176 visa now as it's our last chance before the points changes in July but realise that we won't be able to make the final move to Oz until a loan and credit card are cleared and we've raised enough money to move over and live for a couple of months in Oz in case we can't get jobs before we get there. I work part time currently and as soon as our son starts full time school in September I'm going to find a job (doing anything!) for the other 2 days a week to clear our debts and get our savings together as quick as we can. To the OP - hope you get sorted, I'm stressing about clearing our debts and in reality we've got 5 years to do so if we're successful in getting PR so I appreciate that trying to get over there on a temp visa with this hanging over you must be a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3152 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Madtom, Just read your post. Have you sold yet or rented your home out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmwlove Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hi, just to let you knoe they found a cash buyer, it was updated a couple of pages back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trigby Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 My only concern for your family is that when you come to oz there is a high mortgage rate no nhs for your new baby no child benefits etc and i hope you earn enough money that you don't repeat what has happened in the uk. ? i hope you have thought really hard about the cost o fliving in oz as its very expensive. and bear in mind we have friends who left debt from loans in the uk and there familys were traced through baliffs talking to there old neighbours and they even found out where the hubby used to work and made inquires at his old company and they were hounded for 2 years.. i wouldn't want to do that to my family! I wish you well and happy money managing x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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