Guest sazzle76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Reading it again I think your interpretation is probably right RockDr. I think it's still worth looking into though, because unmarried fathers have less rights generally then married ones. A quick search suggests that much depends on whether the child was born before or after 1 December 2003. As you say, if this is a serious issue it's time for readybrek to see a lawyer. does an unmarried father not have the same rights in oz as a married one then? i mean is it harder for an unmarried father to stop the mother and children heading back home to the uk if things dont work out? :arghh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 does an unmarried father not have the same rights in oz as a married one then? i mean is it harder for an unmarried father to stop the mother and children heading back home to the uk if things dont work out? :arghh: Nope a father is a father and the unmarried ones have just the same voice as the married ones providing there is no doubt about who is the father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sazzle76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Nope a father is a father and the unmarried ones have just the same voice as the married ones providing there is no doubt about who is the father. huummm.. maybe il paint them blue and claim the dad was a smurf! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 huummm.. maybe il paint them blue and claim the dad was a smurf! lol That is always one solution:biglaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioban Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I have been reading this thread and it's making me feel really worried. I have full parental rights of my 2 kids as they were born before the Family Act Scotland came into force in 2006 and I am not married to their dad. I do not actually agree with the fairness of this as we have lived together for the last 13 years and made the decision to have children together, however I know that as things stand at the moment I basically could make decision about where we live etc. When we go to Australia will the Hague Convention mean that I no longer have full parental responsibility? If my partner and I split and I we are there as dependants could my visa be revoked or would I be allowed to stay as long as I could support my kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have been reading this thread and it's making me feel really worried. I have full parental rights of my 2 kids as they were born before the Family Act Scotland came into force in 2006 and I am not married to their dad. I do not actually agree with the fairness of this as we have lived together for the last 13 years and made the decision to have children together, however I know that as things stand at the moment I basically could make decision about where we live etc. When we go to Australia will the Hague Convention mean that I no longer have full parental responsibility? If my partner and I split and I we are there as dependants could my visa be revoked or would I be allowed to stay as long as I could support my kids? Gee thats a complicated situation. I am not legally trained and can only state what I know due to what I have been through..... my instincts would say that as you are both the parents then the HC would apply and you would need the fathers permission to leave. As for your visa, it all depends on what visa you arrive on....... Legal advice, thats what I would take if I was you, but unfortunately not all legal teams in the UK and AU are fully versed on the HC, so your best route to find the most knowledgeable solicitors on the HC would be to contact 'Reunite' in the UK, just google them and they will point you in the right direction. They have a list of solicitors all over the UK who specialise in the HC and can advise you. Before you move, why don't you express your concerns to your partner and ask that if it doesnt work out, that he would allow you all to go home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have been reading this thread and it's making me feel really worried. I have full parental rights of my 2 kids as they were born before the Family Act Scotland came into force in 2006 and I am not married to their dad. I do not actually agree with the fairness of this as we have lived together for the last 13 years and made the decision to have children together, however I know that as things stand at the moment I basically could make decision about where we live etc. When we go to Australia will the Hague Convention mean that I no longer have full parental responsibility? If my partner and I split and I we are there as dependants could my visa be revoked or would I be allowed to stay as long as I could support my kids? From what I read in your post, your partner is an Australian citizen and your kids are there for Australian's by descent of their father? If so, once you arrive in Australia (and because of your children you would be given a permanent visa that allows you to stay indefinitely) you would not be allowed to take them back to the UK without your partner's permission. If your partner is not Australian and you're all just going over on a PR visa, the Hague convention would still apply and your visa could not be revoked. The only time i think it doesn't apply is if you are on a temporary 457 visa. I've read between the lines a bit, so apologies if I guessed your situation wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 From what I read in your post, your partner is an Australian citizen and your kids are there for Australian's by descent of their father? If so, once you arrive in Australia (and because of your children you would be given a permanent visa that allows you to stay indefinitely) you would not be allowed to take them back to the UK without your partner's permission. If your partner is not Australian and you're all just going over on a PR visa, the Hague convention would still apply and your visa could not be revoked. The only time i think it doesn't apply is if you are on a temporary 457 visa. I've read between the lines a bit, so apologies if I guessed your situation wrong. I don't think it quite works like that? I do believe In that scenario she would still be on a temp spouse visa for 2yrs. If they split up she would have to inform Immigration who would giver her 3 scenarios to enable her to stay and continue for her permanent visa - (1) if the father is proven to be abusive (2) if the father has died (3) if she has a court order to say she is the main carer. And until her visa is permanent then she still can't claim any support from centerlink...... how do I know? It happened to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't think it quite works like that? I do believe In that scenario she would still be on a temp spouse visa for 2yrs. If they split up she would have to inform Immigration who would giver her 3 scenarios to enable her to stay and continue for her permanent visa - (1) if the father is proven to be abusive (2) if the father has died (3) if she has a court order to say she is the main carer. And until her visa is permanent then she still can't claim any support from centerlink...... how do I know? It happened to me. If you're in Australia on a temp spouse visa and the relationship breaks down, immigration will not cancel the visa and deport the partner if it means splitting a mother from her kids.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 If you're in Australia on a temp spouse visa and the relationship breaks down, immigration will not cancel the visa and deport the partner if it means splitting a mother from her kids.. Thats right, but you need a court order to state your the main carer, they wont just give you a permanent visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thats right, but you need a court order to state your the main carer, they wont just give you a permanent visa. Agreed - to some extent. If you're on a temp spouse visa, there shouldn't be a primary carer - as you should both be living together as a couple. If the relationship breaks down and the mother moves out, that shouldn't mean that she gets deported either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Agreed - to some extent. If you're on a temp spouse visa, there shouldn't be a primary carer - as you should both be living together as a couple. If the relationship breaks down and the mother moves out, that shouldn't mean that she gets deported either. I have just sent you a PM - I prefer to keep some personal details off the main thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockDr Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I don't think it quite works like that? I do believe In that scenario she would still be on a temp spouse visa for 2yrs. If they split up she would have to inform Immigration who would giver her 3 scenarios to enable her to stay and continue for her permanent visa - (1) if the father is proven to be abusive (2) if the father has died (3) if she has a court order to say she is the main carer. And until her visa is permanent then she still can't claim any support from centerlink...... how do I know? It happened to me. They've been together for 13yrs, so she would get PR straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 They've been together for 13yrs, so she would get PR straight away. Even though they are not married? I was married and had to wait 2yrs...... also, the OP hasn't mentioned what her OH's status is? I think we are assuming he is Aussie, but I don't see anywhere that she has said this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Checcles Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 This is all really scarey stuff :eek: I am going to cross my finger twice a day for all those moving to Oz with children... For me... dont think I should bother worrying about it. With children been 16 and 18 they will decide for themselves where they want to be in the end. My hearts go out to all those sadly effected:cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockDr Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Even though they are not married? I was married and had to wait 2yrs...... also, the OP hasn't mentioned what her OH's status is? I think we are assuming he is Aussie, but I don't see anywhere that she has said this? If you've been together (DeFacto or married) three years (or two years if there's kids involved) and can prove it, then you'll get PR straight off, otherwise you'll get put on the temp visa for two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freesia Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 If you've been together (DeFacto or married) three years (or two years if there's kids involved) and can prove it, then you'll get PR straight off, otherwise you'll get put on the temp visa for two years. does having a child with C by descent entitle the (single) mother to live in Australia ? does anyone know which visa would cover this- to enable the child to live in Australia??? I cant find any info about this :err: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 does having a child with C by descent entitle the (single) mother to live in Australia ? does anyone know which visa would cover this- to enable the child to live in Australia??? I cant find any info about this :err: If the child and mother are currently outside of Australia - No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioban Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Sorry for not giving more info in my previous post - we are both UK citizens and moving to Australia on a Skilled Independent 175 visa. I presently work part time and my partner works full time so that I can collect kids from school etc., so I presume I would be classed as the primary carer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freesia Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 If the child and mother are currently outside of Australia - No. mmm ...does that mean the situation would be different if they were onshore? as visitors??? or no entitlement at all?? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina2 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The Brammies This is exactly why you "should" sort it out before it happens. Trust me after what we have been through and are going through and expect to now have to go through for the next 12 years i would even advise people to make these sorts of decisions before they even get pregnant ! As you said when marrages break up people aren't normally rational and to that i will ad they can become bitter and spitful and dont see how what they are doing is going to do long term damage to the children. The laws in Australia are tough very tough when it comes to family law, and common sense no longer seems to matter, what the rules in the book say is what happens, and as Tiger2 said the cost financially and emotionally is enormous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 mmm ...does that mean the situation would be different if they were onshore? as visitors??? or no entitlement at all?? :unsure: Having a child who is an Australian citizen, does not give you any right to live in Australia - by itself. However, if you are in a relationship with an Australian citizen and have a child together - and are living in Australia on a partner visa - were the relationshipship to breakdown you could apply for permanent residency (if you didn't have it already) on humanitarian grounds. The Australian government is very unlikely to deport a mother if it mean't seperating her from her kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawthorn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 excellent post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkinofemigrating Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi - is this still true if you're not married?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tigers Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi - is this still true if you're not married?? If the person you are with is the parent, then yes..... both parents have rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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