Family of three, a bit lost

[123Family]

This will be long so apologies in advance. I just want to give the full picture. I'm probably rambling.

I'm Australian, grew up on a small hobby farm in NSW and travelled/casually worked a lot in Oz. After, I spent six years in Scotland and slightly longer in England (am a UK passort holder). My wife is half Irish/Scottish. We met in Northern England and married, our son is 7.5. My career has mainly been in administration (mainly public/govt.) I've never had any issue obtaining work and still have a lot of contacts in the UK. My wife has worked in libraries, tourism places, archives etc. She is currently middle-management where we live. I am 46 and my wife is 47.

Sadly I no longer have any family except an elderly uncle and one cousin in VIC. Not close, but pleasant when we very rarely meet up. My wife has a tiny family in the Borders (just a mam and much younger brother left) and although they get on well there's a big age gap with her brother so not hugely close.

Okay, so the introduction is finally over.

I loved living in the UK and my wife and I enjoyed visits to Australia. My wife loves the warmth and 'openess' of Australia.  I'm suffering from years of sun damage and prefer Spring/Autumn and even winter in the UK.

I was the driving force to move to Australia at the time and we obtained a spouse visa for my wife.  We researched, planned, obtained a job and moved 2018. Felt lucky, it was very smooth. My wife was happy and keen to move (we felt ready for a change) and has a role she enjoys in Australia.  Her salary is better here, albeit food/housing/clothing etc. is high. She can only work PT (job share) due to lack of childcare for our son/no friends family.

Sorry again, this is a bit long and well done if you're still reading.

To now get to the point. I would like to move back to the UK, possibly Ireland or Scotland.  We loved our woodland/countryside walks in the UK, went out in all weather, but now don't go out a lot due to the very high UV and sun/heat. We just don't enjoy it, hate the high UV. July is the only month we feel ok to go out in the great outdoors and that's one month in 12. Feel Trapped. Everyone else seems to live in the outdoors. I get it, the way I used to live growing up. No way is right and no way is wrong. I feel more strongly about this due to now suffering years of sun damage.

We sold a tiny flat a while ago in Northern England, rented for a bit and used the small equity to move here. Approx $35,000 including her Visa, flights and a ridiculously huge container (most of which was not needed and we will be selling, won't be taking back). Stupid, trim it and don't do this.

We've not managed to save much in Australia and can't see us being able to afford a house here. We thought with higher salaries we would save more however housing, food, medical, LIFE is expensive and it's been very hard to save. Our ages are late 40's. We thought things would be more rosy in Oz. Had done our research but costs have grown and grown. Rent eats a huge amount.

I feel like we're paddling. Going nowhere, in circles.

I feel like we would be better taking our savings, moving next year very frugally to the UK/Ireland aiming for at least one of us having a job lined up and trying to get housing as soon as possible. I've spoken to UK contacts and there's work. We can stay with my wife's mam for a while. My son can have a granny. My wife and I can't figure out how to save the minimum $100,000 in Australia most mortgage advisors have said we'll need here. Every year the house prices go up and up. Our rent has gone up over a $100 a week and will most likely rise next extension. We can't earn any more.

I feel so torn. I feel like I'm failing my son. I want to give him a stable home, his 'own' room where he can have whatever colour he wants on the walls. Put posters up. I feel like I'm not providing.

My wife is fine with the move to the Scotland now but wasn't keen at first. I dropped it, tried not to mention it too much but given lack of savings, high costs and her own research, she's OK with moving back. I've tried even harder to be positive around my son. Never mentioned my feelings around him. Given him my time and we have fun. He constantly tells everyone he's Scottish and says to my wife he wants to live there. He's 7 though and left so young, who knows what's he's really on about haha.

We've not settled where we live (think a very large rural location about two hours from a capital city) and despite having good close friendship groups in England, and Scotland we feel like outcasts here. People here are, on the surface, friendly, or, rather, indifferent, not horrible. But it seems no-one needs/wants more friends, perhaps it's our age. We're just your 'average' nice friendly family, interested in others, help out at school, chat when able and not pushy or over-eager but nothing seems to lead anywhere. We have extended & tried.

I feel lonely, nothing I'd admit in real life. I miss our UK mates and kids. My wife does too. You don't move for mates but you just don't know what it feels like when you don't have this any more and no family to speak of. People change/life moves on but we're all still in touch a lot with our UK friends. Visits and vid calls with the kids included. We don't have big expectations, we'll live our own life and they theirs, but know we'll hang out from time to time. Better than 'nothing' here. It's lucky I guess my wife, son and I are very close, have a laugh and really enjoy each other's company.

I suggested my wife could choose somewhere else less semi-rural with more childcare options in Australia but she said she doesn't want to do that. It's stay here or move internationally. My wife says the house deposit you need in the Scotland is less compared to salaries we could earn (we're only looking at small, older semi-detached/terraced in semi-rural Scotland). We understand housing has gone up there too but, from researching not as much as a jump here. I do know cost of living has risen in the UK.

I don't feel at home in the country I grew up in. How weird is that. I know we earn more here, but how the heck do we raise the deposit. I know people will say nothing is wrong with renting but we just want our own small place. We also want to spend a lot of time outdoors like we used to.

I'm massively worried about making the wrong financial decision. We're not in our 20's/30's and have a young kid to think of. We are thinking of us as a family.

It's not horrible here. We have jobs, my son seems happy in school. Do I just snap out of it and accept this is our future/reality. Renting, no social stuff but higher salaries.

Advice from anyone? Admit I feel pretty lost.

Thanks, Ben

[123Family]

Jeez that was longer than intended. Cathartic getting it out.

[InnerVoice]

@123Family thanks for sharing. There are many posts on here where you find yourself trying to fit the pieces together but you've provided the full story, although I didn't pick up on where you live now? I was thinking regionally - you don't need to supply your full postal address. You mentioned you were happier living in a cooler climate and a more rugged environment, so I was wondering if you'd considered Tasmania? It isn't Scotland/Ireland, but it would certainly tick a few of your boxes. If it's more about lacking a sense of belonging and Scotland feels like home for you, then there really is no quick fix for that. I'd start planning your move back, but bear in mind things have been really tough over there since the pandemic and financially it could be a struggle. Good luck with it all.

[123Family]

Cheers innervoice. You managed to get all the way to the end of my ramble. You make sense. Hadn't considered Tassie, will research. Possibly even more issues with UV? That may be an incorrect memory of mine.

Thanks mate.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, 123Family said:

I'm Australian......We loved our woodland/countryside walks in the UK, went out in all weather, but now don't go out a lot due to the very high UV and sun/heat. We just don't enjoy it, hate the high UV. July is the only month we feel ok to go out in the great outdoors and that's one month in 12. Feel Trapped. Everyone else seems to live in the outdoors. I get it, the way I used to live growing up. No way is right and no way is wrong. I feel more strongly about this due to now suffering years of sun damage.

I understand this very, very well.   My husband is exactly like you.  He's had two bouts of melanoma, and now he is extremely conscious of high UV.    He's very reluctant to go outdoors when the UV is high, which made him a virtual prisoner in the house for most of the summer.  I felt he was  over-cautious but how can I criticise him with such a threat hanging over his head?

His concerns about UV were part of the reason we decided to retire in the UK.  However unlike you, we didn't have any UK friends left, and my family are too scattered, so I found it too lonely and couldn't settle. 

We had planned to settle in Hobart to get the lowest UV exposure possible, but (long story) we ended up in Melbourne instead. The UV is low here all winter and only bad in the middle of the day during spring and autumn, so it's much easier to get out and about.  I wouldn't recommend Melbourne to you because the house prices are astronomical, but depending on work, country Victoria offers lots of good-sized towns.  

At one time it was said that Tasmania had higher UV due to the hole in the ozone layer but that seems to be all over.  They do have a high incidence of skin cancer, mainly because people tend to equate UV with heat (which as you know is totally wrong).  Tassie gets a lot of bright, sunny but cool days, and people have been complacent about wearing sunscreen in that kind of weather. Rates are dropping now as people are more aware.  

As you can see from the maps below, UV is very high all over Australia at midday in the height of summer, even Tasmania, whereas in the UK at the height of summer, it rarely gets above about 8 (high).  However, note the winter map and how low Adelaide, Victoria and Tasmania are.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Marisawright

[tea4too]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. If you haven't already, check out some of the threads in the 'Moving Back to the UK' section where you'll find some kindred spirits and discover you are not alone in terms of the issues you are struggling with. A sense of belonging, or lack of it, is a common thread in many posts.

It's difficult to offer advice because there's no guaranteed outcome whatever you decide, but I would be cautious about drifting too long in the hope that things improve. On a practical basis it could become a more difficult decision as you and your family grow older. Sometimes instead of trying to decide the best option it can help if you flip the question and  work on the least worst option instead. Maybe ask yourself; if you were to make a mistake which outcome would you regret more - being stuck for the foreseeable future in Aus, or in the UK/ Ireland? Which is more likely to have the most negative consequences? It will still be a dilemma because weighing finances against emotions is an apple and pears thing, but it might help to clarify some priorities. Wishing you all the best,   T x

[123Family]

Cheers Marissa. Sorry to hear about your husband. Sounds more challenging than I've experienced but the UV can be a nasty bugger if not treated with respect. I did previously look up the BOM charts and watched Tassie by changing the month. Interesting it's an extreme spot in summer against other States.

I had researched VIC but think the housing cost there is astronomical,  higher than where we are. Lovely countryside, seen when visiting my uncle

Thanks tea4too for the warm welcome. You write well and positively. I think I've added my comment to possibly the wrong section. Still figuring out how to steer this thing. I will have a good gander.

You've put that so well 'drifting'. That's me and this situation to a tee. Five years of sand blowing in the wind. The least worse option, I like that also. You give good advice. It's a hard decision to make because i just don't know the outcome, which option would be the mistake. It's easy to bottle it up and stay. The sand will continue to blow.

Thank you for answering all. It helps to have advice and write it down. Cheers, Ben

 

[123Family]

Thinking about it all. I suppose my actual question is, is it financially ignorant to take out a (lowest as possible) mortgage for a (most likely) small home at our ages. Next year. Very small deposit. I imagine we'll be working until late 60's anyway, unless we receive a miraculous windfall.

[Marisawright]

 

7 hours ago, 123Family said:

Thinking about it all. I suppose my actual question is, is it financially ignorant to take out a (lowest as possible) mortgage for a (most likely) small home at our ages. Next year. Very small deposit. I imagine we'll be working until late 60's anyway, unless we receive a miraculous windfall.

No, I don't think it is financially ignorant, but the question is still, "Where?"   

As you've noticed, although you're earning higher salaries in Australia, housing is much less affordable too; so in the long term, you may stand more chance of paying off a mortgage if you move to Scotland.  The report below highlights how much more affordable houses are in the North of England and Scotland, relative to salaries. 

http://demographia.com/dhi.pdf

I know you'll get plenty of people piling in, telling you how dire things are in the UK and how much better life is in Australia.  But there are also plenty of people who were in your situation, and are very happy with their decision to go home.  And in your case, it sounds like the whole family would  be happier if you moved.

[Tulip1]

18 hours ago, 123Family said:

Thinking about it all. I suppose my actual question is, is it financially ignorant to take out a (lowest as possible) mortgage for a (most likely) small home at our ages. Next year. Very small deposit. I imagine we'll be working until late 60's anyway, unless we receive a miraculous windfall.

I can’t see why.  All the time you’re renting you’re just paying someone else’s mortgage.  Might as well be paying your own.  If you keep renting you’ll be doing that for the rest of your life.  At least with buying you will one day own it.  

[InnerVoice]

18 hours ago, 123Family said:

I did previously look up the BOM charts and watched Tassie by changing the month. Interesting it's an extreme spot in summer against other States.

That's what I thought when I first looked at it, but the chart is misleading. Tassie is all in red which makes you think it has higher UV than the rest of Australia during summer, but red is lower than purple on the scale, so Tassie has the least UV in both winter and summer. It's just not a very well thought out colour scheme - you'd expect red to be the most extreme, wouldn't you?!

[InnerVoice]

 

On 09/10/2023 at 19:39, 123Family said:

I feel like we would be better taking our savings, moving next year very frugally to the UK/Ireland aiming for at least one of us having a job lined up and trying to get housing as soon as possible. I've spoken to UK contacts and there's work. We can stay with my wife's mam for a while. My son can have a granny. My wife and I can't figure out how to save the minimum $100,000 in Australia most mortgage advisors have said we'll need here. Every year the house prices go up and up. Our rent has gone up over a $100 a week and will most likely rise next extension. We can't earn any more.

 

On 09/10/2023 at 23:18, 123Family said:

Thinking about it all. I suppose my actual question is, is it financially ignorant to take out a (lowest as possible) mortgage for a (most likely) small home at our ages. Next year. Very small deposit. I imagine we'll be working until late 60's anyway, unless we receive a miraculous windfall.

I don't think it's financially irresponsible taking out a mortgage at any point in your life, as long as you can afford the repayments. I was in my early fifties when we bought our current home, and I won't pay my mortgage off until 83 - which obviously is never going to happen. We will sell the property well before then and downsize to a smaller house or apartment. There's always the possibility that you could find yourself in negative equity but Australia has never had a major property crash, and given the current housing shortage that would seem unlikely in the foreseeable future. This isn't intended to be financial advice, but as Tulip said all the time you're renting you're paying somebody else's mortgage. Unless you only intend to stay somewhere short-term, renting simply doesn't add up if you can afford to buy.

You mentioned that you and your wife are both one good incomes, but didn't have much of the deposit saved. It's possible to get a 95% mortgage, albeit with higher interest rates, so I don't think you would need a $100,000 deposit. I've never understood the Australian obsession with mortgage brokers, and other advisers for things you can do very easily online these days. When we bought our property I liaised with a mortgage broker a friend recommended, but all the mortgages he offered had poorer terms than what I was able to obtain with my own bank. I guess the difference is where they make their cut.

I appreciate this doesn't address your main dilemma about whether to stay in Australia or return to the UK, but either way you're likely to be better off financially if you can own your own home. You will also feel a lot more settled about knowing that you have a place of your own, which you can do with as you wish.

[Skani]

On 10/10/2023 at 00:05, 123Family said:

. I did previously look up the BOM charts and watched Tassie by changing the month. Interesting it's an extreme spot in summer against other States.

It has a "Very High" rating in summer but less than the "Extreme" of other states.  One advantage though is the (average) cooler temperatures means it is more comfortable wearing a long sleeved/legged cover for sun protection than in hotter locations.  

[123Family]

On 11/10/2023 at 09:51, InnerVoice said:

 

 

I don't think it's financially irresponsible taking out a mortgage at any point in your life, as long as you can afford the repayments. I was in my early fifties when we bought our current home, and I won't pay my mortgage off until 83 - which obviously is never going to happen. We will sell the property well before then and downsize to a smaller house or apartment. There's always the possibility that you could find yourself in negative equity but Australia has never had a major property crash, and given the current housing shortage that would seem unlikely in the foreseeable future. This isn't intended to be financial advice, but as Tulip said all the time you're renting you're paying somebody else's mortgage. Unless you only intend to stay somewhere short-term, renting simply doesn't add up if you can afford to buy.

You mentioned that you and your wife are both one good incomes, but didn't have much of the deposit saved. It's possible to get a 95% mortgage, albeit with higher interest rates, so I don't think you would need a $100,000 deposit. I've never understood the Australian obsession with mortgage brokers, and other advisers for things you can do very easily online these days. When we bought our property I liaised with a mortgage broker a friend recommended, but all the mortgages he offered had poorer terms than what I was able to obtain with my own bank. I guess the difference is where they make their cut.

I appreciate this doesn't address your main dilemma about whether to stay in Australia or return to the UK, but either way you're likely to be better off financially if you can own your own home. You will also feel a lot more settled about knowing that you have a place of your own, which you can do with as you wish.

This is good to read. Cheers Inner Voice. I understand what you're saying and I found it encouraging to read about a mortgage at an advanced age. It's been very hard to save due to my wife only PT and rent eating up a lot of pay. But I don't want to come up with excuses, just a plan. Thank you.

[123Family]

On 11/10/2023 at 13:46, Skani said:

It has a "Very High" rating in summer but less than the "Extreme" of other states.  One advantage though is the (average) cooler temperatures means it is more comfortable wearing a long sleeved/legged cover for sun protection than in hotter locations.  

That does make sense now. Just had another 'one' removed so anything that helps stopping the UV get through I'm keen to hear.

[123Family]

On 10/10/2023 at 15:27, Tulip1 said:

I can’t see why.  All the time you’re renting you’re just paying someone else’s mortgage.  Might as well be paying your own.  If you keep renting you’ll be doing that for the rest of your life.  At least with buying you will one day own it.  

That's the plan. Thanks mate

[123Family]

On 10/10/2023 at 05:33, Marisawright said:

 

No, I don't think it is financially ignorant, but the question is still, "Where?"   

As you've noticed, although you're earning higher salaries in Australia, housing is much less affordable too; so in the long term, you may stand more chance of paying off a mortgage if you move to Scotland.  The report below highlights how much more affordable houses are in the North of England and Scotland, relative to salaries. 

http://demographia.com/dhi.pdf

I know you'll get plenty of people piling in, telling you how dire things are in the UK and how much better life is in Australia.  But there are also plenty of people who were in your situation, and are very happy with their decision to go home.  And in your case, it sounds like the whole family would  be happier if you moved.

I think a move could make up happy, just need to get my head straight with finances. I go from thinking, no, just stay and keep earning the higher salary and just making the UK a holiday destination to flipping to no, actually Ben, just try to sort out finances first and move.

II've spent a bit of time reading lots of stories on this website. Wonder if all the people fully settled when they moved back. Maybe people settle and then don't write anymore. Hard to know what the right thing to do is. Stay or go. Go or stay. Do you think, on balance, people who feel like this, in a similar situation should always act on it?

[123Family]

I really thank you all.

[Parley]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:51, InnerVoice said:

 

 

I don't think it's financially irresponsible taking out a mortgage at any point in your life, as long as you can afford the repayments. I was in my early fifties when we bought our current home, and I won't pay my mortgage off until 83 - which obviously is never going to happen.

Must say i  am surprised any bank is willing to provide a 30 year mortgage which won't be paid off until the borrower is 83.

Don't they quiz you on how you will meet the repayments after retirement. I'm sure they don't think you will be teaching in your 80s.

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Must say i  am surprised any bank is willing to provide a 30 year mortgage which won't be paid off until the borrower is 83.

Don't they quiz you on how you will meet the repayments after retirement. I'm sure they don't think you will be teaching in your 80s.

We took out a mortgage when we retired here age 60, it’ depends on your financial situation 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Must say i  am surprised any bank is willing to provide a 30 year mortgage which won't be paid off until the borrower is 83.

Don't they quiz you on how you will meet the repayments after retirement. I'm sure they don't think you will be teaching in your 80s.

That would depend very much on your Super balance I guess!  If it is ample to either pay off the home loan or turn into an income stream that covers the repayments, then why not?.

[Parley]

30 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That would depend very much on your Super balance I guess!  If it is ample to either pay off the home loan or turn into an income stream that covers the repayments, then why not?.

Yes. Good point you have made.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, 123Family said:

II've spent a bit of time reading lots of stories on this website. Wonder if all the people fully settled when they moved back. Maybe people settle and then don't write anymore. Hard to know what the right thing to do is. Stay or go. Go or stay. Do you think, on balance, people who feel like this, in a similar situation should always act on it?

That's the thing, Once people have made the move, a few will stay on the forum because they've made friends, or feel they've got something to contribute.  But most will just stop posting.

One thing to bear in mind:  don't ever think that you can stay in Australia until you retire, then make the move.  It can't happen. There are too many snags to do with pensions.  You really need to make the move as soon as you can, so you can establish a home, get your UK pensions going, and build a life there.   You only have to delay another 3 or 4 years, and you'll be stuck in Australia for the rest of your lives.  

If that statement sends your heart into your boots, then that's a sign that you need to do something about it.  If you're just shrugging your shoulders at the thought, then maybe it isn't worth the upheaval.  Only you can decide.  

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, Parley said:

Must say i  am surprised any bank is willing to provide a 30 year mortgage which won't be paid off until the borrower is 83.

Don't they quiz you on how you will meet the repayments after retirement. I'm sure they don't think you will be teaching in your 80s.

It’s all about being able to afford the payments.  Whether that comes from a salary or a pension is irrelevant.  In fact for many, a pension is more secure.  You can lose a job/become too ill to work but many pensions such as final salary, annuities and UK state pensions are guaranteed for life. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Tulip1

[welljock]

12 hours ago, Parley said:

Must say i  am surprised any bank is willing to provide a 30 year mortgage which won't be paid off until the borrower is 83.

Don't they quiz you on how you will meet the repayments after retirement. I'm sure they don't think you will be teaching in your 80s.

So was I but I was offered almost 6 times our combined wages for a mortgage. I had not even thought about it for a few years as I didn't think I had a chance in my early 50's.

This was only 3-4 years ago. Currently I will be 82/83 before it is paid off and that is after a remortgage reducing it by 2 years.