Homesick for both places

[OzukOzuk]

Hi All,

Phew sorry for the long one.. 

I was wondering if anyone else has been having the same issues. I lived in Sydney for the past 6.5 years. Once I had obtained citizenship I was desperate to move back to the UK to be closer to friends and family. I was so homesick for them all, parts of British culture and being in a familiar place again. 

Issue is - I now feel homesick for Australia. I feel like I can't settle in the UK because I don't feel English enough but I also can't settle in Australia because I don't feel Australian enough. I feel like  I will always have a pull for both countries and have a sense of homesickness. I almost sometimes have regret for even going there in the first place as I'd never be in this situation. Mostly all of my friends I made in Sydney over the years have returned to the UK and don't have any interest in returning. 

I think all of the above combined with the fact is the quality of life in the UK vs Aus is staggeringly different. Aus is just better in terms of cost of living/wages ratio. I know there are lots of amazing places in the UK but you can't fault Aussie nature. I just worry I made a mistake in returning on a more perm basis. I came to the UK for 10 weeks last year and I was heart broken to leave. I returned to Sydney with an action plan with my husband for us to get our citizenship and return to the UK. We have done just that, we have returned, we have moved a few hours from home as that is where we obtained jobs and its all starting again I suppose. I've recently found out I am pregnant and this bit is the weirdest for me - I'd always said I can't have a family in Aus as all our family and friends are in the UK but now I am pregnant I feel like the UK isn't a great place to bring up children and I feel like I am taking the chance away from our future children to grow up in Aus. I know I shouldn't make any decisions while pregnant .

I know we can't make any decisions on going back in the next year as I will be pregnant and then freshly postpartum. But how long do you sit on these feelings for? How realistic would it be to have the best of both? 6 months here /6 months there? That's fine if its just you but not fair on children. 

I think I just needed to sound board on a community of people who most likely have gone through all the same emotions over the years. 

Being an expat creates a beautiful life with amazing experiences, but it comes with some hard decisions on the back of it. 

Thanks all if you read this far!

[InnerVoice]

I get this from beginning to end. I was here for a decade and I couldn't settle (lots of trips back and forth to the UK), and eventually returned in 2008 after I got my Aussie citizenship... just in case! It was great being back for a while and I qualified as a teacher (which would've been much harder to do in Australia), but after a year of teaching in the UK and knowing how much better life was over here, I returned to Australia in 2011. I haven't regretted coming back although I really miss trips to Europe - and the pub! - which for me was the best part of UK life. I feel a lot more settled in Australia these days but all my close family have passed on, so I no longer have the family ties there I used to have. If I had a large supportive family and lots of friends then I'm sure I'd still be in the UK, despite the state the country's in. Those things are really important to me but when you take them out of the equation and compare apples for apples, Australia is better.

If I was you I'd try and visualize what your life will be like with a young family in Australia, as it will be a completely different than the lifestyle you previously had when you lived here. On one side of the coin I think kids have a better life here than in the UK (just my opinion), but on the other side you'll be doing it on your own with no support network. Honestly, I don't envy your decision and all I can suggest is try and ignore the gloss and the soundbites, and ask yourself honestly what's most important for your happiness.

[Gary H]

Lived in SE Asia for 14 years in an amazing community (a small island in Thailand), Australia for 10 FNQ and now GC, and come from the UK. Still feel unsettled, especially having just visited the UK for the first time in 7 years.

Had I never left UK would I have felt the same?, I wouldn't have known first hand the opportunities, alternatives, or experiences out there. It changes a person, it changes views, and opens up the mind. 

It's a conundrum of sorts would I have been better off not knowing and feeling like this, or better off experiencing what I have? Short answer I wouldn't change my life to date It has been mostly incredible as a result of leaving.

Does it leave a person unsettled, for many yes, but it also means you have a past history of being courageous or taking the opportunity that many wouldn't remember that person moving forward.

[Marisawright]

@OzukOzuk, I think for many, it's normal to feel as you do. It's called 'the curse of the expatriate'. 

Early in my first marriage, my oh and I spent 3 years in Africa. Tough, but very well paid and an amazing social life in the expatriate community. We met many couples who were on their 3rd or 4th contract or even longer. They were why we decided not to renew our own contract!  We learned that most of those people weren't in Africa because it felt like home, but because they didn't feel at home in the UK any longer. We didn't want to fall between two stools like that. 

As it happened, we returned to the UK in the middle of the miners' strike, struggled to find jobs and decided to try Australia. Luckily for me, I felt at home right from the start.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Marisawright

[ramot]

I’m like the song. ‘wherever I hang my hat, that’s my home’

Born in England , spent 4 years between the ages of 4-8 in Germany, (father in the army) spoke fluent German and still buy everything German from Aldi at Christmas as it brings back so many memories.

IThen lived back in England till my mid 20’s, (but spent spent 4 full school summer holidays in Francs living with a French family as a teenager due to family reasons)

Mid 1960’s went to Zambia to work for their airline as a stewardess, discovered I had family who lived there, plus met my husband there.

Back to England for about 20 years, moved about every 2 years due to my husband being in the RAF.

1993moved to Brunei, for the next 10 years, due to my husband’s job. Not always easy being an expat, and our 3 children stayed for school and uni in England, but what an experience.

2003 moved to the Sunshine Coast. 

Ive had to make so many places ‘home’ and I think I mostly managed it? made  sure our 3 children were happy and settled over and over again. I don’t regret anywhere I have lived,     

I also know that  Australia, unless something totally unexpected happens,  after 20 years here is where I am settled and don’t want to ever move again.

[Cheery Thistle]

On 29/09/2023 at 06:30, ramot said:

I’m like the song. ‘wherever I hang my hat, that’s my home’

Born in England , spent 4 years between the ages of 4-8 in Germany, (father in the army) spoke fluent German and still buy everything German from Aldi at Christmas as it brings back so many memories.

IThen lived back in England till my mid 20’s, (but spent spent 4 full school summer holidays in Francs living with a French family as a teenager due to family reasons)

Mid 1960’s went to Zambia to work for their airline as a stewardess, discovered I had family who lived there, plus met my husband there.

Back to England for about 20 years, moved about every 2 years due to my husband being in the RAF.

1993moved to Brunei, for the next 10 years, due to my husband’s job. Not always easy being an expat, and our 3 children stayed for school and uni in England, but what an experience.

2003 moved to the Sunshine Coast. 

Ive had to make so many places ‘home’ and I think I mostly managed it? made  sure our 3 children were happy and settled over and over again. I don’t regret anywhere I have lived,     

I also know that  Australia, unless something totally unexpected happens,  after 20 years here is where I am settled and don’t want to ever move again.

This just shows how different people are and how we all react to things so differently. This sounds absolutely hellish to me (sorry)! I can’t imagine moving about as much as that. I like to be settled and have friends and I want the same for my daughter.  I also like my own house and space to be ‘home’ and can’t imagine my 4 walls changing so often. In my adult life I have only really lived in 2 houses and I’m 43 lol. Good on you for making a good go of that and also for realising you don’t want to move again! 

[ramot]

5 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

This just shows how different people are and how we all react to things so differently. This sounds absolutely hellish to me (sorry)! I can’t imagine moving about as much as that. I like to be settled and have friends and I want the same for my daughter.  I also like my own house and space to be ‘home’ and can’t imagine my 4 walls changing so often. In my adult life I have only really lived in 2 houses and I’m 43 lol. Good on you for making a good go of that and also for realising you don’t want to move again! 

It’s not easy when, in my case, your husband is in the RAF, and reposted on average every 2 years, you face living apart or moving to keep the family together, so is staying in a house really more important than keeping your family together?              Moving so often you might think could cause marital problems, ( like any marriage you have to work at it), and I have no idea of actual statistics, but all of the close friends we have made over the years, are still together, and we have just celebrated our 53rd wedding anniversary,                

 

[Cheery Thistle]

11 hours ago, ramot said:

It’s not easy when, in my case, your husband is in the RAF, and reposted on average every 2 years, you face living apart or moving to keep the family together, so is staying in a house really more important than keeping your family together?              Moving so often you might think could cause marital problems, ( like any marriage you have to work at it), and I have no idea of actual statistics, but all of the close friends we have made over the years, are still together, and we have just celebrated our 53rd wedding anniversary,                

 

You’ve been married longer than I’ve been alive….just letting that sink in! Well done. There’s a lot to be said for sticking at it, that said I know loads of older couples who did just that and made each other miserable as hell!! 

Most of my friendships have been going more than 10 years, I cannot imagine upping sticks and moving every 2 years, it would not be for me.

I briefly considered the armed forces as a career (using my languages) but quickly realised that a) rules are not my friend b) all that moving c) roughing it is also not for me! 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

You’ve been married longer than I’ve been alive….just letting that sink in! Well done. There’s a lot to be said for sticking at it, that said I know loads of older couples who did just that and made each other miserable as hell!! 

Most of my friendships have been going more than 10 years, I cannot imagine upping sticks and moving every 2 years, it would not be for me.

I briefly considered the armed forces as a career (using my languages) but quickly realised that a) rules are not my friend b) all that moving c) roughing it is also not for me! 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by ramot

[InnerVoice]

On 01/10/2023 at 20:39, Cheery Thistle said:

I briefly considered the armed forces as a career (using my languages) but quickly realised that a) rules are not my friend b) all that moving c) roughing it is also not for me! 

I've no problems with a) b) and c), but I think I'd find; d) shooting at folks I have no disagreement with, a bit of a struggle!

[Cheery Thistle]

23 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I've no problems with a) b) and c), but I think I'd find; d) shooting at folks I have no disagreement with, a bit of a struggle!

Well, someone’s got to do it lol. Hand to hand combat is fairly rare these days IV!
To be fair I was thinking more along the lines of being an officer interpreter, not actually seeing active action in the field. 

[InnerVoice]

11 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Well, someone’s got to do it lol. Hand to hand combat is fairly rare these days IV!
To be fair I was thinking more along the lines of being an officer interpreter, not actually seeing active action in the field. 

True, but death still seems to be a pretty common feature if the Ukraine War is anything to go by!

I've two friends - one of who served in the Falklands and the other, in the first Gulf War - and neither are doing well mentally, or ever will. You had a lucky escape.

Edited October 7, 2023 by InnerVoice

[proud preston]

@OzukOzuk oh my word! I’m in England visiting friends and family and had that realisation too- I’m neither English nor Australian. English friend talking about the careers they are in - same as mine - but widely different from mine in Australia. Talking about things they watch on telly. When I’m in Aus I can’t ease into conversation about things that are uniquely Australian. I feel I don’t really fit in anywhere anymore and feel sad about this. However …….as much as I yearn for all things English - I do (eventually) realise my life in Aus is a good life (albeit missing family and friends) England seems very costly now. My home town has shops and pubs boarded up - as many UK towns do. I’m craving for an England that doesn’t really exist any more. The word ‘hiraeth’ comes to mind often 
We moved over when our boys were 5 and 3.  I’ve been homesick for 16 years! but……(especially on this trip) I really do realise that our life is good in Aus and I can continue to visit the UK. You’ve time on your side. I do believe it’s very common - with migrants who scatter all over the world - that longing for familiarity. I’ve spent far too long thinking about the UK and really missing out on ‘enjoying the moment’ (!) in Aus. We are so fortunate that we have this choice - even though it drives us crazy. All the best. You’re not alone in your thoughts and feelings. 

[proud preston]

@Gary H love your response. I need to screen shot this and re read it.

[SophW]

On 10/10/2023 at 17:44, proud preston said:

@OzukOzuk oh my word! I’m in England visiting friends and family and had that realisation too- I’m neither English nor Australian. English friend talking about the careers they are in - same as mine - but widely different from mine in Australia. Talking about things they watch on telly. When I’m in Aus I can’t ease into conversation about things that are uniquely Australian. I feel I don’t really fit in anywhere anymore and feel sad about this. However …….as much as I yearn for all things English - I do (eventually) realise my life in Aus is a good life (albeit missing family and friends) England seems very costly now. My home town has shops and pubs boarded up - as many UK towns do. I’m craving for an England that doesn’t really exist any more. The word ‘hiraeth’ comes to mind often 
We moved over when our boys were 5 and 3.  I’ve been homesick for 16 years! but……(especially on this trip) I really do realise that our life is good in Aus and I can continue to visit the UK. You’ve time on your side. I do believe it’s very common - with migrants who scatter all over the world - that longing for familiarity. I’ve spent far too long thinking about the UK and really missing out on ‘enjoying the moment’ (!) in Aus. We are so fortunate that we have this choice - even though it drives us crazy. All the best. You’re not alone in your thoughts and feelings. 

Hope you don't mind me asking, but do you think you'll stay in Oz given how you've felt on this trip to England?

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, SophW said:

Hope you don't mind me asking, but do you think you'll stay in Oz given how you've felt on this trip to England?

Proudpreston has often said that she can't leave Oz because her boys are here and they won't move back.  It's a story you'll hear often here.  So many people move to Australia, start a family and then stay because they feel it's better for the kids, even though they feel terribly homesick themselves.  They tell themselves they'll all move back when the kids are a bit older, or when they  retire.  But then, the kids grow up Australians, marry other Australians, have Australian kids themselves -- and then retiring back to Blighty means leaving them behind.

Some homesickness is normal when you migrate, but I do think that if people are still feeling 'the pull' after the first couple of years, they should pack up and go home, regardless of any financial advantages. Migration only works (in the long term) if you're able to commit to your new country wholeheartedly.  Some people can, some people can't. I don't think it's something you can control.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Marisawright

[proud preston]

@SophW Marisa’s response is spot on. I feel I can’t ever leave as the kids (adults now!) have no intention of returning to England/Ireland. As I often jokingly (?) say ‘self imposed exile’! Wouldn’t be so bad if Aus was nearer. I dread the thought of that awful flight. Going back in 2 days and feel nauseous just thinking about the long flight. 

[SophW]

2 hours ago, proud preston said:

@SophW Marisa’s response is spot on. I feel I can’t ever leave as the kids (adults now!) have no intention of returning to England/Ireland. As I often jokingly (?) say ‘self imposed exile’! Wouldn’t be so bad if Aus was nearer. I dread the thought of that awful flight. Going back in 2 days and feel nauseous just thinking about the long flight. 

I'm sorry you're in that situation  I know what you mean about the flight. I did it in June and I couldn't really understand the 'only 24 hours away' - it's a long, long way and a lot of travel!

[SophW]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Proudpreston has often said that she can't leave Oz because her boys are here and they won't move back.  It's a story you'll hear often here.  So many people move to Australia, start a family and then stay because they feel it's better for the kids, even though they feel terribly homesick themselves.  They tell themselves they'll all move back when the kids are a bit older, or when they  retire.  But then, the kids grow up Australians, marry other Australians, have Australian kids themselves -- and then retiring back to Blighty means leaving them behind.

Some homesickness is normal when you migrate, but I do think that if people are still feeling 'the pull' after the first couple of years, they should pack up and go home, regardless of any financial advantages. Migration only works (in the long term) if you're able to commit to your new country wholeheartedly.  Some people can, some people can't. I don't think it's something you can control.

 

Thank you. As an aside, I've seen many of your replies on here and I think you're always so constructive and measured in your responses to everyone  

[Guest]

I searched for expat guilt on here this morning and hope you don't mind me hopping on to here. 

I have been in Australia for 6m with my family - husband and two children aged 2 and 6. I'm your typical backpacker who spent 12 years talking about coming back and 2 years actually doing something about it as life gets in the way. 

We have our first family member visiting now and they're quite unwell. I can't imagine how we will send them home but we have to for a number of reasons (and they won't want to stay importantly), they have no other family and very few friends. Then in terms of my own parents, I feel that I am killing them by keeping their grandchildren away. 

My mum and dad are coming for 3 months at end of Feb and I already worry about them going home. I feel so completely torn down the middle where I am in a place that I have wanted to be for over 20 years and how much I have such a connection with Australia, then the other side of not being able to imagine a time that this will ever feel easier. 

I know I'm not ready to go back to Scotland and we have always said we would do 3 years and decide from there to keep our options open and take pressure off. My mind is a permanent battle. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Guest

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Constance said:

I searched for expat guilt on here this morning and hope you don't mind me hopping on to here. 

I have been in Australia for 6m with my family - husband and two children aged 2 and 6. I'm your typical backpacker who spent 12 years talking about coming back and 2 years actually doing something about it as life gets in the way. 

We have our first family member visiting now and they're quite unwell. I can't imagine how we will send them home but we have to for a number of reasons (and they won't want to stay importantly), they have no other family and very few friends. Then in terms of my own parents, I feel that I am killing them by keeping their grandchildren away. 

My mum and dad are coming for 3 months at end of Feb and I already worry about them going home. I feel so completely torn down the middle where I am in a place that I have wanted to be for over 20 years and how much I have such a connection with Australia, then the other side of not being able to imagine a time that this will ever feel easier. 

I know I'm not ready to go back to Scotland and we have always said we would do 3 years and decide from there to keep our options open and take pressure off. My mind is a permanent battle. 

I do understand how you feel.  I NEVER got used to the goodbyes when my Mum returned to Scotland after a few months here every 2nd year.  It was very hard.  I have always been happy in Australia but when you migrate, leaving a close loving family is without doubt the hardest part   ..............  it was for me even though I had lived in other countries before migrating. 

I have been here over 40 years now.  Mum died a number of years ago but my sister comes for 3 months to visit.  Many migrants return to their country of origin as they find being apart from their families too difficult.  

Enjoy your parents visit in February.  See how you feel when they return - as I said, it isn't at all easy but life returns to normal and you just seem to get on with it.

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, Constance said:

I searched for expat guilt on here this morning and hope you don't mind me hopping on to here. 

I have been in Australia for 6m with my family - husband and two children aged 2 and 6. I'm your typical backpacker who spent 12 years talking about coming back and 2 years actually doing something about it as life gets in the way. 

We have our first family member visiting now and they're quite unwell. I can't imagine how we will send them home but we have to for a number of reasons (and they won't want to stay importantly), they have no other family and very few friends. Then in terms of my own parents, I feel that I am killing them by keeping their grandchildren away. 

My mum and dad are coming for 3 months at end of Feb and I already worry about them going home. I feel so completely torn down the middle where I am in a place that I have wanted to be for over 20 years and how much I have such a connection with Australia, then the other side of not being able to imagine a time that this will ever feel easier. 

I know I'm not ready to go back to Scotland and we have always said we would do 3 years and decide from there to keep our options open and take pressure off. My mind is a permanent battle. 

No it wont get better until they are all gone, in fact, every farewell will probably make it just that little bit worse.  I/we used to cope with the farewells with considerable equanimity until it got to the "I wonder if this will be the last time" ones when they were barrelling towards 90. You just have to suck it up and accept that you will miss births, deaths and marriages unless you are particularly well heeled and can come and go at the drop of a hat.  Your parents will probably cope (even if they are dying inside)  especially if they have other grandkids they can spend their time with and, if not, then they will fill the gap you have left with other things - might be extended family or friends or just generally doing their own thing.  However when they get to be too old to actually do all they want to then you might have to do some thinking about how to support them in their vulnerable old age, unless, of course you are fortunate enough to have siblings who will be able to do the heavy lifting.  Citizenship is now 4 years so you'd probably better budget for that if you want to keep all your options open.