Australian Citizenship and US green card

[Matcha90]

Hello, I came back to this page after 3 years since i got my Australia Permanent Resident. I got some question for all people here for my case. I was planning to apply Australian Citizenship and Green card USA next year. As family, my parents that just granted for green card application (based on my brothers sponsorship also one of them are US citizen and 2 of my brothers are green card holder) we plan to move to USA temporarily for a few years but i don't want to lose my Australia Permanent Residency, thats why i decided to apply citizenship. How this things work ? since the citizenship application wiil take almost at the same time as green card processing time possibly 1-2 years until its finish. FYI i need to give up my main citizen after got Australia Citizen. is that possible for me to apply at the same time ? Thank you for your time. 

Cheers. 

[MARYROSE02]

I don't know about the specifics of your question but you can certainly have US citizenship AND Aussie citizenship. In fact my brother has all three with UK citizenship.

[Marisawright]

It’s a good idea to check though. The UK allows you to be a dual citizen but a lot of countries do not. I’m not sure about the U S

[wrussell]

USA and Australia ok see - The Murdoch Amendments.

[MARYROSE02]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

It’s a good idea to check though. The UK allows you to be a dual citizen but a lot of countries do not. I’m not sure about the U S

My brother is a triple citizen - USA, UK, Australia, I am a dual citizen of Australia/UK (though I've not renewed my UK passport for a decade), and my other brother is still UK citizen only, just got PR for Australia after 42 years almost unbroken here. 

[ramot]

13 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

My brother is a triple citizen - USA, UK, Australia, I am a dual citizen of Australia/UK (though I've not renewed my UK passport for a decade), and my other brother is still UK citizen only, just got PR for Australia after 42 years almost unbroken here. 

M R if your brother has only just got PR after 42 years what visa was he on? Or did you mean citizenship? 

[MARYROSE02]

Ah, I see what I wrote to you which is not how I meant to say it. I meant to say that one of my brothers "only" bothered to get permanent residence, rather than "just got" permanent residence. "Just got PR for Australia after 42 years almost unbroken here" does sound wrong. I should have said hes been here for  42 years and never bothered taking out citizenship.

We all got permanent residence at the same time in 1980/81 and two of us took out citizenship as soon as we could but the other never bothered or never wanted to become an Aussie citizen. I don't know exactly why because he is the most "Aussie" of us - married an Aussie, two Aussie born kids, now adults, speaks with an Aussie accent, has only been back to the UK twice for brief holidays.

[starlight7]

We have quite a few friends who never bothered to take out Australian citizenship. Most of them emigrated from the UK in the late 60s, 70s. Personally I think that is wrong and they also have to have a visa to return each time they go overseas. One day they might get stuck is what I think - no sympathy from me if they do.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Ah, I see what I wrote to you which is not how I meant to say it. I meant to say that one of my brothers "only" bothered to get permanent residence, rather than "just got" permanent residence. "Just got PR for Australia after 42 years almost unbroken here" does sound wrong. I should have said hes been here for  42 years and never bothered taking out citizenship.

We all got permanent residence at the same time in 1980/81 and two of us took out citizenship as soon as we could but the other never bothered or never wanted to become an Aussie citizen. I don't know exactly why because he is the most "Aussie" of us - married an Aussie, two Aussie born kids, now adults, speaks with an Aussie accent, has only been back to the UK twice for brief holidays.

Frankly, that makes me suspicious.  I've met people like that before.  They are very unhappy with their situation, so they go to an extreme to prove that they ARE happy. 

In your brother's case, the fact that he won't become an Aussie suggests that he still feels 100% British, and would think it a betrayal to take citizenship.  But he's got stuck in Australia, so he's gone overboard with the Aussie accent, Aussie partner etc, to try to convince himself it's all oK.  And of course, he doesn't go back to the UK because it would break his heart to be reminded of what he''s missing.   

[MARYROSE02]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Frankly, that makes me suspicious.  I've met people like that before.  They are very unhappy with their situation, so they go to an extreme to prove that they ARE happy. 

In your brother's case, the fact that he won't become an Aussie suggests that he still feels 100% British, and would think it a betrayal to take citizenship.  But he's got stuck in Australia, so he's gone overboard with the Aussie accent, Aussie partner etc, to try to convince himself it's all oK.  And of course, he doesn't go back to the UK because it would break his heart to be reminded of what he''s missing.   

That is an interesting theory Marisa, and I might run it past him. He may well have "issues". (Don't we all!?)  Perhaps "England" is a means of, I don't know what the term is? "If only I was in England again, i.e. single again. It is all Ausralia's fault!" Isn't that the theme of much of what we are discussing? Is Australia the sources of all my problems or are the problems nothing to do with Australia and I'd feel the same way in England? Australia might have made me frightened of crowds, but when I go back to England I'm still frightened of crowds.

But he has had plenty of opportunities to go to the UK and he has rarely taken them. The first time he came back in 1997 was for our Mum's funeral, 18 years after he came to OZ. I remember he was angry because he could not "relate" to the places he'd grown up  in. He lived there for 22 years, went to school there, worked there, but revisiting his old haunts was mostly a "blank".  Seven years later he came back just before my Dad died and that was that.

I had been going back every few years and then I ended up staying there for a number of years although I experienced some of the same feelings m brother had. I 'd go down the road where we lived, see the house, but it did not seem possible that I really did live there.

He probably DOES feel 100 per cent British. @#$%ing Aussies! @#$%ed if I'm taking out their plastic citizenship.  But that is a facade. He'd be lost in England on his own, wife, children, grandchildren all here, extended family via his wife, all his links to Australia. He's spent maybe 10 weeks out of 42 years back in the UK whereas I lived there again for 12 years and made frequent visits. My other brother does not care where he lives. "Wherever he lays his hat, that's his home."

When he talks about going on holiday now it's another road trip in the USA, not the UK. But,  I will ask him if he would go back to live if he had the chance?

 

[MARYROSE02]

7 hours ago, starlight7 said:

We have quite a few friends who never bothered to take out Australian citizenship. Most of them emigrated from the UK in the late 60s, 70s. Personally I think that is wrong and they also have to have a visa to return each time they go overseas. One day they might get stuck is what I think - no sympathy from me if they do.

Yes, that is the hassle with not being a citizen. In fact, when my Mum died and he wanted to come back for the funeral I think he discovered his UK passport had expired so he had to both renew that in a hurry and get a re-entry visa.

On the other hand, my UK passport expired a decade ago and I never renewed it. 

Perhaps it is a psychological thing? Taking out citizenship is like renouncing who you are? Disowning your parents? I don't know. 

The other odd and ironic thing is that my brother is not an Aussie citizen yet he has an Aussie accent whereas I am an Aussie citizen yet I speak like a Pom.

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

That is an interesting theory Marisa, and I might run it past him. He may well have "issues". (Don't we all!?)  Perhaps "England" is a means of, I don't know what the term is? "If only I was in England again, i.e. single again. It is all Ausralia's fault!" Isn't that the theme of much of what we are discussing?

That sounds as though you're still not believing that people like Quoll or LKC or Amber Snowball are genuine when they say they are desperately homesick for their country.   They've expressed themselves very eloquently on the other thread.  People can and do feel homesick for a place - with or without family.

I'm sure there are people who aren't really heartsick for their homeland, they just want something to blame for their unhappy life, so they blame Australia. Maybe that is your brother. But you say he was "angry" when he went back. He gave a reason why he was angry but I wonder if he was being honest about the reason?  

People who have a deep connection to their home country often resist taking out citizenship of another country, because they feel as though they're "betraying" their home country.  Like they were getting divorced, or maybe it's more like taking a second wife without the first wife's permission?   It never bothered me, to me it was just a logical thing to do for security.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Marisawright

[Parley]

My brother is an Australian citizen living in California with a US Green Card

[starlight7]

With my friends I am certain it is total idleness plus the fact that you have to actually dip your hand into your pocket!  None of them would even think of living in the UK.

[Toots]

57 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

With my friends I am certain it is total idleness plus the fact that you have to actually dip your hand into your pocket!  None of them would even think of living in the UK.

I've known a fair few migrants from the UK who never took out Australian citizenship for the reasons you mentioned @starlight7.  They never had any interest in going back to the UK either.  Most of them migrated in the 60's and never looked back.  All their sons and daughters who came with them (around my age) all took out citizenship .  Maybe it's an age thing?

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

That sounds as though you're still not believing that people like Quoll or LKC or Amber Snowball are genuine when they say they are desperately homesick for their country.   They've expressed themselves very eloquently on the other thread.  People can and do feel homesick for a place - with or without family.

I'm sure there are people who aren't really heartsick for their homeland, they just want something to blame for their unhappy life, so they blame Australia. Maybe that is your brother. But you say he was "angry" when he went back. He gave a reason why he was angry but I wonder if he was being honest about the reason?  

People who have a deep connection to their home country often resist takinlang out citizenship of another country, because they feel as though they're "betraying" their home country.  Like they were getting divorced, or maybe it's more like taking a second wife without the first wife's permission?   It never bothered me, to me it was just a logical thing to do for security.

I know it's subjective, but I just assumed that for most people it is family and friends which are more important than "things". In my brother's case, could he really miss England so much that he would leave his wife, his son and daughter, his grandchildren, his dog even, and his brothers of course, to return to a village he has not lived in since 1979, and a country that he has only visited twice for a few weeks in 41 years.

But if his homesickness really is that intense, and his personal happiness is paramount, then surely he SHOULD leave his family and return to England, and it is the same for anybody else with the same intense homesickness? Sod the guilt and shame and any other negative emotions. Just go!  I imagine that my brother might be lonely without his family around him BUT that loneliness would not be as bad as his homesickness so he would feel better in England?

I understand homesickness. We all experience it but, assuming again, I thought that it was more for families than the land itself. When my parents were alive I went back to England and they met me at the airport, and I had a loving home from home to live in. Now, if I went home there would be nobody to meet me at the airport and an empty house to move back into.

Looking back now, from 2020 as opposed to 1986, I wish that when I went back in that year, I had said to my parents, "Sod Australia, I'm staying here with you. N and M are married and I never see them. My job is stressful. What reasons do I have to go back?"

 

[MARYROSE02]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

My brother is an Australian citizen living in California with a US Green Card

My  brother lived for a while in California, then Washington DC, then Colorado. He speaks, I would say in a sort of quasi American/English accent.

[Parley]

26 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

My  brother lived for a while in California, then Washington DC, then Colorado. He speaks, I would say in a sort of quasi American/English accent.

Yes, same with my brother talks with a funny accent now and using American expressions.

My brother initially went to Silicon Valley for the experience as he works in IT. He got married though and had a child so i think he is now there for good.

He doesn't want to become a US citizen, mainly i think because there are taxation implications if you are a US citizen. They tax you on your worldwide income.

[Freemantle]

23 hours ago, starlight7 said:

We have quite a few friends who never bothered to take out Australian citizenship. Most of them emigrated from the UK in the late 60s, 70s. Personally I think that is wrong and they also have to have a visa to return each time they go overseas. One day they might get stuck is what I think - no sympathy from me if they do.

A permanent visa means permanent whilst in the country, but after 5 years and continuing to travel overseas they require a "Resident Return Visa" which lasts for five years. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/resident-return-visa-155-157

• travel in and out of Australia as many times as you want until the travel validity expires

Edited December 17, 2020 by Freemantle
Addition

[starlight7]

I think it was all very different in the early days- they were actually trying to get people to come when our friends came.  Different rules and different entitlements?

[MARYROSE02]

11 hours ago, Parley said:

Yes, same with my brother talks with a funny accent now and using American expressions.

My brother initially went to Silicon Valley for the experience as he works in IT. He got married though and had a child so i think he is now there for good.

He doesn't want to become a US citizen, mainly i think because there are taxation implications if you are a US citizen. They tax you on your worldwide income.

My brother said something to me about the worldwide tax too.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

On 16/12/2020 at 18:07, Marisawright said:

Frankly, that makes me suspicious.  I've met people like that before.  They are very unhappy with their situation, so they go to an extreme to prove that they ARE happy. 

In your brother's case, the fact that he won't become an Aussie suggests that he still feels 100% British, and would think it a betrayal to take citizenship.  But he's got stuck in Australia, so he's gone overboard with the Aussie accent, Aussie partner etc, to try to convince himself it's all oK.  And of course, he doesn't go back to the UK because it would break his heart to be reminded of what he''s missing.   

I find your comment rather rude, how can you judge a members brother and say he has gone overboard by having an Aussie accent and partner and that he is trying to prove he is happy. Personally I wouldn’t dare say that about a member of my own family let alone a complete stranger I’ve never met all because they haven’t taken out citizenship. We have family in Melbourne who have been here 50 years and never taken out citizenship but they detest everything British. If I was to suggest that they were trying to convince themselves they didn’t want to go back I would probably get a slap.

[Amber Snowball]

@MARYROSE02 maybe your brother quite literally never got round to citizenship or didn’t see a need until recently. He might not even be able to say why it took 42 years. If his life is in Australia with his family (I think I have followed the thread correctly! There’s a lot of brothers mentioned! ) then he’s probably absolutely fine. Sometimes there isn’t any deep moral dilemma involved just a simple fact of hadn’t thought about it. I don’t think there’s a need to question his happiness or life choices poor bloke.

What a band of roving adventurers you and your brothers are! life is for living.

[Amber Snowball]

On 16/06/2020 at 15:45, Matcha90 said:

Hello, I came back to this page after 3 years since i got my Australia Permanent Resident. I got some question for all people here for my case. I was planning to apply Australian Citizenship and Green card USA next year. As family, my parents that just granted for green card application (based on my brothers sponsorship also one of them are US citizen and 2 of my brothers are green card holder) we plan to move to USA temporarily for a few years but i don't want to lose my Australia Permanent Residency, thats why i decided to apply citizenship. How this things work ? since the citizenship application wiil take almost at the same time as green card processing time possibly 1-2 years until its finish. FYI i need to give up my main citizen after got Australia Citizen. is that possible for me to apply at the same time ? Thank you for your time. 

Cheers. 

I’m definitely no expert here but if you have been living in Australia for 3 years could you just apply for a residents return visa before you fly to the USA, if you have 2 years out of 5 in Australia (pretty sure that’s right) you’ll get a 5 year RRV which means you can stay in the USA for a couple of years and then back to Australia.

Worldwide taxation applies to USA citizens not green card holders as far as I know, so not applicable to you. 
Hope that helps but please double check my information.

[MARYROSE02]

12 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

I find your comment rather rude, how can you judge a members brother and say he has gone overboard by having an Aussie accent and partner and that he is trying to prove he is happy. Personally I wouldn’t dare say that about a member of my own family let alone a complete stranger I’ve never met all because they haven’t taken out citizenship. We have family in Melbourne who have been here 50 years and never taken out citizenship but they detest everything British. If I was to suggest that they were trying to convince themselves they didn’t want to go back I would probably get a slap.

That's OK. We all go a bit "overboard" sometimes. I'm still feeling a little guilty over a response I provoked along the lines of  "I will never post on here again."

Perhaps we all prefer to "squabble" just like in a soap opera, and there is no drama without conflict. Come to think of it, I just wrote 1,150 words of a proposed short story for my OU unit, first assignment, and I am suddenly thinking, "Is there enough conflict?"  It is hard to be objective about your own work, especially if you have slogged away at it as I did this morning for four or five hours.

Before we submit our assignments we are participating in a "workshop week" when we share our work and critique each other's work.  I shall ask that question, viz. "Have I made my characters nasty enough?"

"Get a slap?" That is a very Pommie expression?!