Bungo Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Quoll, yeah my initial gambit with OH is to sell the idea of renting out the Sydney house and buying in UK first as like a 'try before you buy' - I won't be needing my Au citizenship but I've encouraged OH to get his cos he goes off doing his kayaking and biking and he's so content here - my life here is decidedly less interesting and most of what I like (books, podcasts, skyping family) can all come along with me - trying to go with the flow but I can feel a torrent coming our way lol Note that if you do this, you would then be bringing in capital gains tax considerations. It doesn't mean that you would get any significant hit, but the overlap of two properties could create a hit. If it is only a short overlap, this will probably amount to nothing more than complicating your tax return slightly. I really would implore you to get Australian citizenship as you have an Australian child. It is best for parents and children to have the same citizenships if at all possible. You never know what the future will bring. Bungo, yeah, I wanted to sell up and return as soon as I landed after my dad's funeral but I realise this is a particularly vulnerable time for me - and yet in some way it has made me be honest with OH and myself about how I feel This is perhaps a decision that you need to think about over the next six to twelve months, rather than at an emotional time and an emotional time of year for many. The housing situation you find yourself in, could be one of the pros on the pros and cons list you need to work through with the OH. good luck in the decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livelifenik Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Note that if you do this, you would then be bringing in capital gains tax considerations. It doesn't mean that you would get any significant hit, but the overlap of two properties could create a hit. If it is only a short overlap, this will probably amount to nothing more than complicating your tax return slightly.I really would implore you to get Australian citizenship as you have an Australian child. It is best for parents and children to have the same citizenships if at all possible. You never know what the future will bring.This is perhaps a decision that you need to think about over the next six to twelve months, rather than at an emotional time and an emotional time of year for many. The housing situation you find yourself in, could be one of the pros on the pros and cons list you need to work through with the OH. good luck in the decision making. Thanks Bungo and everyone else for your input - it's so great to have new brains on the issue without the subjective angle on it - it is an emotional time but also it's the longest time to be off work hence all the extra focus on it atm. Planning to look into all aspects in 2017 and by July I'm hoping to have a firm direction sorted for our little family - will have been here 9 years then - in my mind 10yrs in Australia means I gave it a good enough go and if all goes to plan, we will return the UK in a much stronger position than when we left it. I think I will enjoy my Australian adventure much more in retrospect. Does dual citizenship cause any problems when returning to UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaty Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Sounds like a great opportunity for you. Go for it! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Thanks Bungo and everyone else for your input - it's so great to have new brains on the issue without the subjective angle on it - it is an emotional time but also it's the longest time to be off work hence all the extra focus on it atm. Planning to look into all aspects in 2017 and by July I'm hoping to have a firm direction sorted for our little family - will have been here 9 years then - in my mind 10yrs in Australia means I gave it a good enough go and if all goes to plan, we will return the UK in a much stronger position than when we left it. I think I will enjoy my Australian adventure much more in retrospect. Does dual citizenship cause any problems when returning to UK? You absolutely should get citizenship and no it causes no problems. I do tend to be the queen of worst case scenarios but having spent 7 years growing up in Australia your child may choose to return as an adult, who knows and it is possible that with grandchildren in Australia, divorced or widowed (told you I tend to look at the worst case!) that you want to move back or looking at really worst case you may reach an age where you can no longer look after yourself, if your only family was in Australia then if may be a case of having little choice. If you get it and never use it then it really doesn't matter but it's an insurance policy. And it is possible that you don't settle in the UK so at the very least get an RRV but other than processing time 6-9 months there is really no downside to citizenship and IMHO essential for parents of Australian born children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deryans Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Thanks Bungo and everyone else for your input - it's so great to have new brains on the issue without the subjective angle on it - it is an emotional time but also it's the longest time to be off work hence all the extra focus on it atm. Planning to look into all aspects in 2017 and by July I'm hoping to have a firm direction sorted for our little family - will have been here 9 years then - in my mind 10yrs in Australia means I gave it a good enough go and if all goes to plan, we will return the UK in a much stronger position than when we left it. I think I will enjoy my Australian adventure much more in retrospect. Does dual citizenship cause any problems when returning to UK? Thanks Bungo and everyone else for your input - it's so great to have new brains on the issue without the subjective angle on it - it is an emotional time but also it's the longest time to be off work hence all the extra focus on it atm. Planning to look into all aspects in 2017 and by July I'm hoping to have a firm direction sorted for our little family - will have been here 9 years then - in my mind 10yrs in Australia means I gave it a good enough go and if all goes to plan, we will return the UK in a much stronger position than when we left it. I think I will enjoy my Australian adventure much more in retrospect. Does dual citizenship cause any problems when returning to UK? Dual citizenship causes no problems at all, infact , In the current global climate, it's best to have as many passports as possible. We sold up our primary residence in Adelaide before moving back, albeit adelaide is a serious underperformer for the last century, we still made money on it, and since it was our primary residence , I'm quite happy to let the tax office do the legwork. Europe is a treasure trove for us, we have aussie kids, (but with euro/uk and soon to be another country passports) and they love it, since May 2015 we've been to Spain, France x4, Ireland x2, all over SE UK, Greece, Egypt and now we're planning a ski week in France in early march, plus we've taken the kids to see some amazing cultural sites, along with the exposure to the vast and i mean vast collection of what is available in London - should you wish , or want to look, it's just an embarrassment of riches. I'm teaching them how to shoot, and in the new year I'll be teaching them how to fly. Also, 3 year ticks by and our oldest will qualify for EU Uni funding (wherever she is), so we'll pay 3-4 maybe 5K per annum fee's worst case for a choice of courses that only da vinci would think narrow, compare this with adelaide and her 3-4 Uni's fee harvesting 20-30K per annum for basically an arts and crafts degree and dropping you in a market that has no work ?......... London is a cracking place, and it was kind to me when i was a grad, and it's kind 20 year later. Amazing place. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 If your OH is talking about Capital Gains or better prospects for your son in Australia these are clearly straw man arguments which previous posters have thoroughly and correctly dismissed. The likelihood is that he simply prefers Sydney to the UK and it validates his reason for moving in the first place. Good luck with talking him round to your way of thinking. I am amazed that you are talking about semi-retirement though if you are both under 45 with a 7 year old. You must be very well set indeed to even think about that. And I echo everyone else in strongly recommending getting your citizenship before you leave Australia. Burning bridges for no reason is never a good idea and you never know what the future holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Not sure about that GGS. Those who are so happy back home in UK have only been able to do so on the back of good fortune and the fruits of living in Australia. The money to buy the big house in the UK didn't come from the UK. It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia for a decade that has set them up for life. Your own 'frugal' semi retirement as you call it after a life of living in the UK doesn't sound that appetising to many which is why they aspire to more from working in Australia. Edited December 29, 2016 by parleycross1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pommysheila Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 without giving your personal details how did you do it please safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Not sure about that GGS. Those who are so happy back home in UK have only been able to do so on the back of good fortune and the fruits of living in Australia. The money to buy the big house in the UK didn't come from the UK. It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia for a decade that has set them up for life. Well, good luck to them then. People who work hard and pay their taxes deserve the rewards for their effort whether that is in the UK or Australia. Personally I prefer warm Queensland for my dotage but others prefer to return to their roots. Neither is wrong imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deryans Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Not sure about that GGS. Those who are so happy back home in UK have only been able to do so on the back of good fortune and the fruits of living in Australia. The money to buy the big house in the UK didn't come from the UK. It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia for a decade that has set them up for life. Your own 'frugal' semi retirement as you call it after a life of living in the UK doesn't sound that appetising to many which is why they aspire to more from working in Australia. fruits of living in Australia. you mean cooked economy over the last 10-15 years ? Same everywhere It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia[insert country here] for a decade that has set them up for life. what a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livelifenik Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 If your OH is talking about Capital Gains or better prospects for your son in Australia these are clearly straw man arguments which previous posters have thoroughly and correctly dismissed. The likelihood is that he simply prefers Sydney to the UK and it validates his reason for moving in the first place. Good luck with talking him round to your way of thinking. I am amazed that you are talking about semi-retirement though if you are both under 45 with a 7 year old. You must be very well set indeed to even think about that. And I echo everyone else in strongly recommending getting your citizenship before you leave Australia. Burning bridges for no reason is never a good idea and you never know what the future holds. GGS we will probably have to go pick up some work down the track but the main draw for OH is not working so that's the plan at least initially - the main draw for me is being close to family again but I'm giving myself 12 months to get organised - hoping we will have time to sort citizenship out - for both of us then I guess I hadn't thought further down the track. Yeah I need all the luck I can get to persuade OH I think - I'm trying to gather info to make a kind of business plan for him to see the facts of the matter (he keeps telling me my logic is too emotionally based) - thanks for all the posts guys, it really helps to get other people's opinions, esp ones who know about the factors involved - thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livelifenik Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 Dual citizenship causes no problems at all, infact , In the current global climate, it's best to have as many passports as possible. We sold up our primary residence in Adelaide before moving back, albeit adelaide is a serious underperformer for the last century, we still made money on it, and since it was our primary residence , I'm quite happy to let the tax office do the legwork. Europe is a treasure trove for us, we have aussie kids, (but with euro/uk and soon to be another country passports) and they love it, since May 2015 we've been to Spain, France x4, Ireland x2, all over SE UK, Greece, Egypt and now we're planning a ski week in France in early march, plus we've taken the kids to see some amazing cultural sites, along with the exposure to the vast and i mean vast collection of what is available in London - should you wish , or want to look, it's just an embarrassment of riches. I'm teaching them how to shoot, and in the new year I'll be teaching them how to fly. Also, 3 year ticks by and our oldest will qualify for EU Uni funding (wherever she is), so we'll pay 3-4 maybe 5K per annum fee's worst case for a choice of courses that only da vinci would think narrow, compare this with adelaide and her 3-4 Uni's fee harvesting 20-30K per annum for basically an arts and crafts degree and dropping you in a market that has no work ?......... London is a cracking place, and it was kind to me when i was a grad, and it's kind 20 year later. Amazing place. I love it. Wow, your life sounds amazing! We couldn't afford entry into London - we will be returning to north west of England but I take your point about all the great sites to behold - the Uni info is interesting to know as well - thank you so much for this post, it's inspiring - happy new year Deryans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 GGS we will probably have to go pick up some work down the track but the main draw for OH is not working so that's the plan at least initially - the main draw for me is being close to family again but I'm giving myself 12 months to get organised - hoping we will have time to sort citizenship out - for both of us then I guess I hadn't thought further down the track. Yeah I need all the luck I can get to persuade OH I think - I'm trying to gather info to make a kind of business plan for him to see the facts of the matter (he keeps telling me my logic is too emotionally based) - thanks for all the posts guys, it really helps to get other people's opinions, esp ones who know about the factors involved - thanks everyone! Did he say though that Australia provides the best opportunities over the UK for your son though. That must be an emotionally motivated comment rather than one built on logic unless you are planning to live in a particularly deprived area of the UK in which case Sydney could potentially offer greater opportunities I suppose. Still hard to quantify though. Is the return something you have been contemplating for a while or has it hit you on the back of your recent return visit. If the latter bear in mind that the reality of permanent relocation back to the UK may be a little different from that brief visit and perhaps a period of reflection may be wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 fruits of living in Australia. you mean cooked economy over the last 10-15 years ? Same everywhere It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia[insert country here] for a decade that has set them up for life. what a joke Not forgetting an over valued dollar in government thinking. Some forecasting under 50 USA cents in 17. Some won't feel so fortunate then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Hi guys, is anyone considering returning to the UK after selling a home in Australia? Interested to hear if any other people find themselves with the opportunity to return to UK to be much better off financially. Using the equity of the Sydney house, I could buy a property in UK outright and still have change left over so I could take frugal early retirement/work part time. Has anyone else found themselves in this predicament and how that has worked out for you? Funny that I first used this forum to help me work through the initial migration here in 2008 and now I'm back here thinking of a move back England for my dream of a better life. Life has a way of coming around full circle sometimes! British born and migrated to Australia in 2008 - feel like I've given it a good fair go here but reality is not the dream I had envisioned.... Sounds a bit like you are gloating, but I don't have a problem with that. Glad it worked out financially. I great experience, cash in the bank, it's win win. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Dual citizenship causes no problems at all, infact , In the current global climate, it's best to have as many passports as possible. We sold up our primary residence in Adelaide before moving back, albeit adelaide is a serious underperformer for the last century, we still made money on it, and since it was our primary residence , I'm quite happy to let the tax office do the legwork. Europe is a treasure trove for us, we have aussie kids, (but with euro/uk and soon to be another country passports) and they love it, since May 2015 we've been to Spain, France x4, Ireland x2, all over SE UK, Greece, Egypt and now we're planning a ski week in France in early march, plus we've taken the kids to see some amazing cultural sites, along with the exposure to the vast and i mean vast collection of what is available in London - should you wish , or want to look, it's just an embarrassment of riches. I'm teaching them how to shoot, and in the new year I'll be teaching them how to fly. Also, 3 year ticks by and our oldest will qualify for EU Uni funding (wherever she is), so we'll pay 3-4 maybe 5K per annum fee's worst case for a choice of courses that only da vinci would think narrow, compare this with adelaide and her 3-4 Uni's fee harvesting 20-30K per annum for basically an arts and crafts degree and dropping you in a market that has no work ?......... London is a cracking place, and it was kind to me when i was a grad, and it's kind 20 year later. Amazing place. I love it. how much are uni fees in Australia? How much are you paying in Europe? Most are £9000 per annum in the UK. If they are studying in Europe, then they will be hit for living expenses. Are languages not a problem, although I know many are in English. Will brexit be a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Hi guys, is anyone considering returning to the UK after selling a home in Australia? Interested to hear if any other people find themselves with the opportunity to return to UK to be much better off financially. Using the equity of the Sydney house, I could buy a property in UK outright and still have change left over so I could take frugal early retirement/work part time. Has anyone else found themselves in this predicament and how that has worked out for you? Funny that I first used this forum to help me work through the initial migration here in 2008 and now I'm back here thinking of a move back England for my dream of a better life. Life has a way of coming around full circle sometimes! British born and migrated to Australia in 2008 - feel like I've given it a good fair go here but reality is not the dream I had envisioned.... I suppose we're in a similar-ish position. We've been in Australia since 2009 and we are just starting to think about making a move back to the UK within the next six months or so. We've been fairly happy here, but I wouldn't say we've our dream life here (and we wouldn't expect our lives to suddenly be better in the UK when we move back), but I think we've now reached the point where the cons of living here outweigh the pros. I'm not entirely sure when the tipping point was reached (I suspect much earlier for me than my OH), but we've kind of reached the point where we return now or not at all. Eldest kid is due to start high school here in Jan 2018 (and in September 2017 in England or September 2018 in Scotland due to her birthday/the cut off dates) so we would rather move before she gets too far down the line with high school (she is Autistic, which complicates things a bit). We've been lucky in that OH has worked extremely hard and has built up a successful franchise here with his business partner, which we will sell. Plus we'll have fully renovated our home by the time we come to sell, so we should be in the position to buy outright in Scotland/the north of England, and perhaps buy an investment property too. We are toying with the idea of rather than OH starting his own business again (he also owned one in the UK before we moved to Aus), that we both do part time or locum work for a while, just to give us time to settle the kids, draw breath, and then decide on whether he wants to open a new franchise, should the opportunity come up, or even go in another direction within the same industry or in something else. We aren't really moving back for financial/work reasons though. My mother in law had breast cancer earlier in the year, and although she should be fine, it kind of made us realise that we want to be a bit closer to family. We won't be on their doorstep if we do end up in north of England/Scotland, but it is a hecking lot easier (and cheaper) to get back to SE England from there than it is from Sydney. There are lots of other reasons too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) how much are uni fees in Australia? How much are you paying in Europe? Most are £9000 per annum in the UK. If they are studying in Europe, then they will be hit for living expenses. Are languages not a problem, although I know many are in English. Will brexit be a problem? It depends on the course but for a Commonwealth supported course fees range from $6,349 to $10,596. http://i.unisa.edu.au/campus-central/Fees-and-Finance/Commonwealth-supported-students/Student-Contributions/ ETA - these fees are set by the government and as far as I am aware apply to all Universities. International fees are much higher and I believe are set at University level so can vary much more from University to University. Not sure where the $20k a year for Australian Univeristy came from above unless the poster was looking at International fees (which would be around this figure). Citizens and PR visa holders would pay the lower amount unless opting to do a course that was not Commonwealth supported, but I'm not sure how many of these there are around. Edited December 30, 2016 by NicF added a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) It depends on the course but for a Commonwealth supported course fees range from $6,349 to $10,596.http://i.unisa.edu.au/campus-central/Fees-and-Finance/Commonwealth-supported-students/Student-Contributions/ ETA - these fees are set by the government and as far as I am aware apply to all Universities. International fees are much higher and I believe are set at University level so can vary much more from University to University. Not sure where the $20k a year for Australian Univeristy came from above unless the poster was looking at International fees (which would be around this figure). Citizens and PR visa holders would pay the lower amount unless opting to do a course that was not Commonwealth supported, but I'm not sure how many of these there are around. thanks, that is as I thought. Whilst it is true that kids in the UK have a choice of hundreds of universities, mine effectively have a choice of two. They are going to be burdened with enough debt from the fees without living away from home expenses. We live near two universities which provide good courses for what they want to do. So they shall live at home and go locally. We can afford to help them, but we can't afford to fully cover their staying away expenses. I also think they will do better without the added stress of supporting themselves. My eldest wants to do architecture, which is a six year course, so he will have nearly£50,000 with the fees alone. I think that is quite enough. Edited December 30, 2016 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home and Happy Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Yes we sold our house in Brisbane and bought a bigger house here in England and even have a bigger garden, mortgage free. Exactly. If you can come out with a lump sum, be mortgage free and semi retired, then get off the aussie hamster wheel and go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Exactly. If you can come out with a lump sum, be mortgage free and semi retired, then get off the aussie hamster wheel and go for it. It's good when immigrants can benefit themselves and their host country. It's win win for all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Not sure about that GGS. Those who are so happy back home in UK have only been able to do so on the back of good fortune and the fruits of living in Australia. The money to buy the big house in the UK didn't come from the UK. It is down to the benefit of having lived in Australia for a decade that has set them up for life. Your own 'frugal' semi retirement as you call it after a life of living in the UK doesn't sound that appetising to many which is why they aspire to more from working in Australia. It's funny how I've never seen you say anything like this about all the people that sell up in the UK and buy a house in Australia, why no comment about using the fruits of living in the UK ? We were able to buy our house in Australia because of money we bought over from the UK, so good fortune and the fruits of living in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 thanks, that is as I thought. Whilst it is true that kids in the UK have a choice of hundreds of universities, mine effectively have a choice of two. They are going to be burdened with enough debt from the fees without living away from home expenses. We live near two universities which provide good courses for what they want to do. So they shall live at home and go locally. We can afford to help them, but we can't afford to fully cover their staying away expenses. I also think they will do better without the added stress of supporting themselves. My eldest wants to do architecture, which is a six year course, so he will have nearly£50,000 with the fees alone. I think that is quite enough. That is such a shame, I would tend to think the additional debt is worth the additional learning that an 'away' student gets. Although it saddens me that students are saddled with debt these days, repayments are made 'affordable' & some never have to pay it back. I am at the age where lots of friends have children going to Uni and most seem to pay for accomodation & leave everything else to their son/daughter. We're a few years off that yet and I'm hoping Scottish Uni's will still have no fees (& I have said unless he is going to Oxbridge or wants to do a specific course then he should go in Scotland) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Our eldest son did Bachelor of Veterinary Biology and Doctor of Veterinary Medicine at Sydney Uni - 6 years - cost round about $80,000. One of my cousins had a daughter doing much the same degree at the University of Glasgow - no fees. Same when my brother and sister were at Edinburgh Uni. Long may it last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deryans Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 how much are uni fees in Australia? How much are you paying in Europe? Most are £9000 per annum in the UK. If they are studying in Europe, then they will be hit for living expenses. Are languages not a problem, although I know many are in English. Will brexit be a problem? yes you are correct, 9K gbp is more realistic we're looking at Scotland, Ireland and the Continent, no getting around living expenses though, we have EU passports so we're also mindful of the 3 year residency requirement for EU nationals, if Brexit is executed complete before 2018 we may have an issue as it will be inside the 3 year window of our arrival Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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