BacktoDemocracy Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I got talking to a bank clerk in m&s a while back, and it turns out you need a degree to do that job. Completely bloody pointless. I don't understand why so many kids need to go to uni, other than as you say, it is an industry. And we no longer fund nurses. Madness. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) This to my mind is emphasising the class separation in the UK and also reducing down the numbers willing to accept training and education to become skilled trades and technicians, unlike on the continent where tradesmen and technicians have as much social esteem as anyone in a degree level occupation, this has other knock on effects, people without degrees are feeling more and more excluded and fall easy prey to extremism, and also the lack of training for skills and lack of status is I'm sure one of the drivers behind immigration. Ever since this idiotic drive for everyone to have a degree while we import plumbers from Poland started I've been wondering why none of the Universities have cottoned on to this and started degree courses in Plumbing and Carpentry and the like. It's probably a good thing they haven't as the way most Universities are run they'd been turning out Plumbers who knew all about the history of plumbing and about water flow rates in zero atmosphere but not have the foggiest about how to fix a dripping tap. Edited February 20, 2017 by Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Ever since this idiotic drive for everyone to have a degree while we import plumbers from Poland started I've been wondering why none of the Universities have cottoned on to this and started degree courses in Plumbing and Carpentry and the like. It's probably a good thing they haven't as the way most Universities are run they'd been turning out Plumbers who knew all about the history of plumbing and about water flow rates in zero atmosphere but not have the foggiest about how to fix a dripping tap. Harsh but unfortunately with a kernel of truth. But the fault is in making them self funding, concentration is on finances not on educational quality, some lecturers are on zero hours contracts and work across a number of institutions and courses and other work. Courses have to run full so recruitment is about numbers rather than quality. Edited February 20, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Ever since this idiotic drive for everyone to have a degree while we import plumbers from Poland started I've been wondering why none of the Universities have cottoned on to this and started degree courses in Plumbing and Carpentry and the like. It's probably a good thing they haven't as the way most Universities are run they'd been turning out Plumbers who knew all about the history of plumbing and about water flow rates in zero atmosphere but not have the foggiest about how to fix a dripping tap. didn't they used to be called trade colleges or something like that? Didn't people with apprenticeships go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 thats how boring this brexit thread has become......you are now discussing exams......what next......revision techniques post brexit.....:laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 thats how boring this brexit thread has become......you are now discussing exams......what next......revision techniques post brexit.....:laugh: I think it's relevant. We got away with not needing to train our tradies because we could just import them from Poland, and we end up sending our kids to universityto do pointless David Beckham studies. We should be training our young people in skills they can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think it's relevant. We got away with not needing to train our tradies because we could just import them from Poland, and we end up sending our kids to universityto do pointless David Beckham studies. We should be training our young people in skills they can use. Too right. I went to an auction last year down the road from me, the house sold for $3.8M. The auction was a mid day week at 6pm. All the bidders apart from one were clearly tradies, you could tell as they were still in there work attire. OK so they probably owned their own businesses but they clearly weren't short of a bob or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think it's relevant. We got away with not needing to train our tradies because we could just import them from Poland, and we end up sending our kids to universityto do pointless David Beckham studies. We should be training our young people in skills they can use. I think you will will find that the uk stopped training its tradies when Thatcher was in power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Too right. I went to an auction last year down the road from me, the house sold for $3.8M. The auction was a mid day week at 6pm. All the bidders apart from one were clearly tradies, you could tell as they were still in there work attire. OK so they probably owned their own businesses but they clearly weren't short of a bob or two I don't know any tradies who could afford a $3.8m house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I didn't think I did till I went to that auction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) didn't they used to be called trade colleges or something like that? Didn't people with apprenticeships go there? This is not a dig at you ' newjez' but I feel like your lack of knowledge about how trades people and technicians are educated and trained is a reinforcement of my point about how stratified English society has remained. A training initiative of separating kids out at 14 into those non academic, ie, failures, for them to get skills training is being closed down because of a raft of reasons, mainly to do with how few successful students it has produced , the difficulties of recruiting staff for the schools, and the poor quality, academically, of the students recruited, industry no longer just want people good with their hands they need them to be literate and numerate. Technical colleges have been closed and starved of funds and these were the avenues through which skills training was delivered with apprenticeships, City and Guilds exams and progression onto ONC AND HNC for the brighter, then Govts and business wanted to reduce the length of apprenticeships and so introduced more off the job training and a whole new raft of training qualifications provided by private training companies who got paid by results, so guess what, everybody passed, and apprenticeships got shorter and shorter and firms which really cared about quality labour and had to have skilled people set up their own training schemes. This all suited successive govts because they didn't have to pay for training at all, but of course some industries just decided to import ready made tradespeople from elsewhere and forget about training altogether, they just copied the govt with their approach to the NHS as they recruited doctors and nurses from overseas and cut the cost of the NHS budget by not investing in training and now those wheezes are about to hit the brexit wall. The issue in Scotland with the collapse of walls was an example of poorly trained workers but more importantly it highlighted the abysmally poor training of site management and lack of suitably trained quality control staff. Edited February 21, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 This is not a dig at you ' newjez' but I feel like your lack of knowledge about how trades people and technicians are educated and trained is a reinforcement of my point about how stratified English society has remained. A training initiative of separating kids out at 14 into those non academic, ie, failures, for them to get skills training is being closed down because of a raft of reasons, mainly to do with how few successful students it has produced , the difficulties of recruiting staff for the schools, and the poor quality, academically, of the students recruited, industry no longer just want people good with their hands they need them to be literate and numerate. Technical colleges have been closed and starved of funds and these were the avenues through which skills training was delivered with apprenticeships, City and Guilds exams and progression onto ONC AND HNC for the brighter, then Govts and business wanted to reduce the length of apprenticeships and so introduced more off the job training and a whole new raft of training qualifications provided by private training companies who got paid by results, so guess what, everybody passed, and apprenticeships got shorter and shorter and firms which really cared about quality labour and had to have skilled people set up their own training schemes. This all suited successive govts because they didn't have to pay for training at all, but of course some industries just decided to import ready made tradespeople from elsewhere and forget about training altogether, they just copied the govt with their approach to the NHS as they recruited doctors and nurses from overseas and cut the cost of the NHS budget by not investing in training and now those wheezes are about to hit the brexit wall. The issue in Scotland with the collapse of walls was an example of poorly trained workers but more importantly it highlighted the abysmally poor training of site management and lack of suitably trained quality control staff. Good post, when I look back at my training and apprenticeship and compare it to current standards it's no wonder we have poor trades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 11/9/2016 at 09:18, BacktoDemocracy said: So I suppose the murder of a Polish man in Harlow and the delivery of hate mail to Poles in Harlow and the stationing of Polish police there is just another example of a left wing plot/mass hysteria, which news are you watching, Fox. Yep turns out it is "just another example of a left wing plot/mass hysteria" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 21/02/2017 at 06:19, newjez said: didn't they used to be called trade colleges or something like that? Didn't people with apprenticeships go there? Technical collage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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