Family of 4, do we take the plunge?

[scuffythetugboat]

Never move for the weather. Don't be sucked into thinking that because you are granted a visa to work in Australia that there is work for you. The government are making a fortune out if the fees they charge prospective migrants but there are no guarantees of employment. I can assure you that Perth is more expensive to live in than the north of England. How about $52 for 2 very ordinary burgers and chips.

[Perthbum]

Never move for the weather. Don't be sucked into thinking that because you are granted a visa to work in Australia that there is work for you. The government are making a fortune out if the fees they charge prospective migrants but there are no guarantees of employment. I can assure you that Perth is more expensive to live in than the north of England. How about $52 for 2 very ordinary burgers and chips.

Agree with the weather as it can suck just like it can in the UK, from africa myself I much prefer the temperate climate in the UK.......OHHHH, AND NEVER WATCH "WANTED DOWN UNDER" THEY ONLY FILM WHEN THE SUN IS OUT AND MAKE EVERYTHING LOOK PERFECT, IT IS SOOO MISLEADING . sod caps lock...lol

[Marisawright]

I was debating not coming back to this thread after yesterday, but thought I would give it one last look.

 

 

@NicoleWalt - as I said at the start of my post, the reason I concentrated on the negatives was because I assumed you knew the positives, not because it's all negative! People are just trying to point out things you probably haven't considered.

 

It's important not to close your eyes to the downsides. You'll notice that even Loulou, who wrote a great post about her good experiences, started by saying "Marisa is spot on"! Arriving with realistic expectations will give you a MUCH better chance of succeeding.

 

One thing I thought of - do check out the cost of day care. It is very expensive here, to the point where one recent poster decided to postpone migration until his kids reach primary school age (because the cost of child care would make it uneconomic for his wife to work). Actually that might be a strategy worth considering - rather than feeling that you're delaying migration till your grandmother passes away, which could feel a bit ghoulish, you could decide to delay until the children are old enough for school, which feels like a positive reason. Just a thought.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Marisawright

[Gbye grey sky]

@NicoleWalt - as I said at the start of my post, the reason I concentrated on the negatives was because I assumed you knew the positives, not because it's all negative! People are just trying to point out things you probably haven't considered.

 

It's important not to close your eyes to the downsides. You'll notice that even Loulou, who wrote a great post about her good experiences, started by saying "Marisa is spot on"! Arriving with realistic expectations will give you a MUCH better chance of succeeding.

 

One thing I thought of - do check out the cost of day care. It is very expensive here, to the point where one recent poster decided to postpone migration until his kids reach primary school age (because the cost of child care would make it uneconomic for his wife to work). Actually that might be a strategy worth considering - rather than feeling that you're delaying migration till your grandmother passes away, which could feel a bit ghoulish, you could decide to delay until the children are old enough for school, which feels like a positive reason. Just a thought.

 

Also if you are going to do a recce anyway sort out the visa first then the recce will also be a visa validation trip and you have 4-5 years to make the emigration permanent. This is also an insurance policy against changes in the lists of occupations on the list that could otherwise happen in the meantime.

[Bristol Chris]

To the person who talked about childcare, I thought you got a nice rebate? or is that only for ozzies?

[NicF]

To the person who talked about childcare, I thought you got a nice rebate? or is that only for ozzies?

 

Anyone with a PR visa gets the rebate, although you have to apply for child care benefit to get it. The benefit is means tested but the rebate isn't. There has been talk about changing the childcare benefit and rebate system but it hasn't changed yet. The main difference is likely to be that really high earners won't get anything.

[Marisawright]

Also if you are going to do a recce anyway sort out the visa first then the recce will also be a visa validation trip and you have 4-5 years to make the emigration permanent.

 

The flaw in this for the OP is she has said they won't consider moving while the grandmother is still alive, which is perfectly understandable. In her shoes, I'd feel bad about putting in an application now and banking on grandma not being around in 5 years' time . . .

[Bristol Chris]

Anyone with a PR visa gets the rebate, although you have to apply for child care benefit to get it. The benefit is means tested but the rebate isn't. There has been talk about changing the childcare benefit and rebate system but it hasn't changed yet. The main difference is likely to be that really high earners won't get anything.

 

ah ok Nic F thanks for the information, you know a lot :-)

[NicoleWalt]

@NicoleWalt - as I said at the start of my post, the reason I concentrated on the negatives was because I assumed you knew the positives, not because it's all negative! People are just trying to point out things you probably haven't considered.

 

It's important not to close your eyes to the downsides. You'll notice that even Loulou, who wrote a great post about her good experiences, started by saying "Marisa is spot on"! Arriving with realistic expectations will give you a MUCH better chance of succeeding.

 

One thing I thought of - do check out the cost of day care. It is very expensive here, to the point where one recent poster decided to postpone migration until his kids reach primary school age (because the cost of child care would make it uneconomic for his wife to work). Actually that might be a strategy worth considering - rather than feeling that you're delaying migration till your grandmother passes away, which could feel a bit ghoulish, you could decide to delay until the children are old enough for school, which feels like a positive reason. Just a thought.

 

Yes thank you for your advice!

 

My eldest son starts school next week and my youngest has another two years in nursery, which sounds about right in terms of timescales for us I think?

 

I'd like to think I am a realistic person so would ride the rough with the smooth too.

[NicoleWalt]

The flaw in this for the OP is she has said they won't consider moving while the grandmother is still alive, which is perfectly understandable. In her shoes, I'd feel bad about putting in an application now and banking on grandma not being around in 5 years' time . . .

 

Yes precisely.... Also how would this work if my husband managed to get sponsored from his employer?

[Marisawright]

Yes precisely.... Also how would this work if my husband managed to get sponsored from his employer?

 

If your husband is sponsored by his employer, that's just a temp visa (usually for 2 to 4 years) and will give you no right to live permanently in Australia. If he resigned or lost his job after arriving in Australia, you'd be required to leave the country within 90 days. You're also not considered an Australian resident so you don't get any benefits, and may have to pay for school fees depending what state you go to, so you'd need to check which ones charge.

 

Normally we recommend against temp visas because of those extra costs and the insecurity - especially if the job is a new one so you don't know whether you'll like it. However it might be a good option for you and your family. For one thing, it's likely your husband's work would pay your relocation costs and help with initial accommodation, which would markedly reduce your setup costs and make the whole thing more comfortable. If it was a fixed term contract then they'd pay for you to return at the end, too.

 

If after a year or two, you decided you liked Australia enough to stay for good, you could still apply for a permanent visa.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Marisawright

[VERYSTORMY]

Yes precisely.... Also how would this work if my husband managed to get sponsored from his employer?

 

Well, if they want to sponsor, they would expect you there the moment the visa is through. Companies don't want to wait years to fill a post.

 

But, you would have to be aware of what that would mean in terms of visa. It would be almost certainly a 457. This is a temporary visa with no automatic path to permanent and you would take it on the assumption you would return at the end of the visa - up to 4 years. While some go on to gain permanent visas - I did. Many do not.

 

There are significant issues with 457 visas. These include that is he were to lose his job, he would have 90 days to find another company willing and able to to sponsor or you all have to leave the country. Many states charge significant sums to holders for educating children - in the thousands. The partners of 457 holders can, because they only have a temporary visa, find it more difficult to get work.

 

Generally, it is rarely a good idea for a family to move on these visas.

 

If if you are adamant on the move, then I would strongly urge you to look to independent skilled migration.

 

As as to the rest, there is some good advice given above and I would heed it. Oz has some great advantages, but also disadvantages. You need to be aware of what they all are and figure out which affect you. I also wonder if you really understand Australia. For example, you mention not living in a city, but it isn't like the UK where you can live in a nice village and travel in. The size and spread of the suburbs can make this impossible. Also, a lot of rural communities are not places people would chose to live - I have been in many in WA that are pretty third world. Lastly, take heed of the weather advice. For example, You might thing Brisbne may suit, but what about when a cyclone is bearing down? Or Melbourne, but which can have winters that are pretty vile. Or Adelaide, where winter can see very cold temperatures and summers stupidly hot and dominated by bush fire.

[Bristol Chris]

This has been interesting

[NicoleWalt]

Well, if they want to sponsor, they would expect you there the moment the visa is through. Companies don't want to wait years to fill a post.

 

But, you would have to be aware of what that would mean in terms of visa. It would be almost certainly a 457. This is a temporary visa with no automatic path to permanent and you would take it on the assumption you would return at the end of the visa - up to 4 years. While some go on to gain permanent visas - I did. Many do not.

 

There are significant issues with 457 visas. These include that is he were to lose his job, he would have 90 days to find another company willing and able to to sponsor or you all have to leave the country. Many states charge significant sums to holders for educating children - in the thousands. The partners of 457 holders can, because they only have a temporary visa, find it more difficult to get work.

 

Generally, it is rarely a good idea for a family to move on these visas.

 

If if you are adamant on the move, then I would strongly urge you to look to independent skilled migration.

 

As as to the rest, there is some good advice given above and I would heed it. Oz has some great advantages, but also disadvantages. You need to be aware of what they all are and figure out which affect you. I also wonder if you really understand Australia. For example, you mention not living in a city, but it isn't like the UK where you can live in a nice village and travel in. The size and spread of the suburbs can make this impossible. Also, a lot of rural communities are not places people would chose to live - I have been in many in WA that are pretty third world. Lastly, take heed of the weather advice. For example, You might thing Brisbne may suit, but what about when a cyclone is bearing down? Or Melbourne, but which can have winters that are pretty vile. Or Adelaide, where winter can see very cold temperatures and summers stupidly hot and dominated by bush fire.

 

Thank you for your info on the 457 visa that's very useful.

 

I don't understand Australia at all... I started this thread explaining that and at this point am at an information gaining part to help us make an informed decision. I have said as well as the thread I am and will be speaking with friends already out there, researching online and attending info events. May be I should have been better informed before I started the thread? I don't know.

 

We don't want village/rural life nor do we want inner city life.

 

We live in a town of around 85000 have access to country walks, camping, parks, outdoor sports, local amenities and bars... So I have assumed the suburbs would better suit what we would like given previous posters info?

[NicoleWalt]

If your husband is sponsored by his employer, that's just a temp visa (usually for 2 to 4 years) and will give you no right to live permanently in Australia. If he resigned or lost his job after arriving in Australia, you'd be required to leave the country within 90 days. You're also not considered an Australian resident so you don't get any benefits, and may have to pay for school fees depending what state you go to, so you'd need to check which ones charge.

 

Normally we recommend against temp visas because of those extra costs and the insecurity - especially if the job is a new one so you don't know whether you'll like it. However it might be a good option for you and your family. For one thing, it's likely your husband's work would pay your relocation costs and help with initial accommodation, which would markedly reduce your setup costs and make the whole thing more comfortable. If it was a fixed term contract then they'd pay for you to return at the end, too.

 

If after a year or two, you decided you liked Australia enough to stay for good, you could still apply for a permanent visa.

 

When is the best time to start looking for work then if we aren't doing the sponsored route? Within a few months of our departure date?

[Beaty]

When is the best time to start looking for work then if we aren't doing the sponsored route? Within a few months of our departure date?

 

Avoid the Sponsoring if you can.

 

Get there with enough funds for 'X amount of time' (in my mind a cash pot for 12-18 months modest / reasonable living is best) but start to look for work maybe a few weeks / month in.

 

In our case, one of us will be self employed the other not. We'll both tear into gearing up the business / seeking work after 1 month's holiers.

 

B

[Marisawright]

When is the best time to start looking for work then if we aren't doing the sponsored route? Within a few months of our departure date?

 

Unless your husband's skills are in huge demand, then no employer will be willing to wait months for him to start work. So yes, you'd have to wait till closer to your departure date - and most migrants simply move to Australia and then budget for a few months unemployed while they look for work.

 

As VeryStormy says, the risk of a 457 visa is that it's temporary and if he hates the job or something happens (e.g. the company restructures), you'd have to come home. That's why we all panic when we hear of a family proposing to come on a 457 - there's the extra cost of school fees and lack of benefits, and also think of the kids who get their lives disrupted (what if they have to come back to the UK just when they're about to sit their exams?).

 

However in your case it seems to me the risk would be much less - your husband already knows the employer so it's not such a gamble that he'll be happy in the job. And if something happened with the company in Australia, they might find him a role elsewhere. You children are young enough that if you did have to return, it wouldn't affect their education. Also, there's nothing to stop you beginning the process of applying for PR as soon as you arrive if you want (assuming you're eligible - have you actually checked that yet?).

 

However, your husband's employer can't sponsor him if they don't have a job available for him when you're ready to go, so that will be a case of wait and see.

 

You could hope for the best of both worlds - apply for PR, then once you've got the visa, see if your husband's employer is willing to transfer him.

[kevsan]

 

You could hope for the best of both worlds - apply for PR, then once you've got the visa, see if your husband's employer is willing to transfer him.

 

Exactly this.

 

Pretty much what i did. I work for an international IT company. We applied for an independent state sponsored visa (190) to give us the safety net of being able to change jobs if required so our family wasnt tied into something, or reliant on being able to fit in with work.

 

We got the visa in October 2014 and then spoke to my UK manager about options and he looked into HR and what needed to be done. At the same time i contacted my managers AUS conterpart and sounded him out about options. I let them know i would be coming out that Easter if they wanted to 'interview me' to see if i fit. We came out at Easter to validate the visa and met with a few people (also had some other interviews lined up just in case).

 

They were pleased that they didnt have to go through the sponsorship headache as it meant less hassle for them. They had to get management sign off, but in the end it was just a simple payroll transfer from their point of view. We arrived 27 August (a year on saturday!) and i started in the office on 28th!

 

A permanent self funded visa may take more time and expense personally, but it gives you a form of freedom and insurance should the worse happen.

 

Same as anywhere in the world, when looking for a job, the easy and more painless you can make it for the employer, the more favourable it'll be for you.

 

just my 2 cents.

[Skani]

Lastly, take heed of the weather advice. For example, You might thing Brisbne may suit, but what about when a cyclone is bearing down? Or Melbourne, but which can have winters that are pretty vile. Or Adelaide, where winter can see very cold temperatures and summers stupidly hot and dominated by bush fire.

 

Definitely research weather in potential locations but I'd like to point out that daily average maxima in Melbourne's winter months vary between 13.5 and 15 and minima around 6 - 7 degrees - which is hardly "vile" for many people. We have lower than that here in Hobart - and it's still warmer than anywhere in the UK.

 

Adelaide's average temps are 1 - 2 degrees above Melbourne's in winter. Adelaide's summer months average a bit under 30 degrees - but it is a dry heat...and much more bearable IMO than lower temps and humidity on the east coast. I lived in suburban Adelaide for 6 years and not once was impacted by bushfire - although obviously it's a consideration if you live in the Adelaide Hills or other rural fringe areas.

[Marisawright]

 

We live in a town of around 85000 have access to country walks, camping, parks, outdoor sports, local amenities and bars... So I have assumed the suburbs would better suit what we would like given previous posters info?

 

This is the big difference between the UK and Australia. In Australia, you live in a city of over 1 million people or you live in the country. There are towns of under 200,000 people but it's extremely hard to find work in them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population

 

For comparison, the only city in the UK with over 1 million inhabitants (apart from London) is Birmingham. Perth and Adelaide are both bigger than that!

 

The streets do look a bit different because they are wider and the older homes are more likely to be separate houses with big gardens or terraces so everything is more spread out so you feel less confined - but that also means the city sprawls over a much wider area, meaning you're further from country walks and camping.

 

One of the other posters talked about suburbs being like little villages, but I think she was on the edge of Sydney. There, some of those suburbs ARE villages which have been swallowed up by the city. Suburbs in Australia aren't usually village-like (though there are exceptions), any more than they are in Birmingham or Manchester. Some suburbs will have their own local shops, cafes and maybe a pub (though pubs are not the centre of social life here so many suburbs won't have one) - some are just dormitory suburbs with a convenience store and not much else.

 

It's funny, because one of the things I didn't like about living back in the UK was the smallness of the cities. I've got used to the big-city way of life in Sydney, where yes, you have to travel to get to anything, but there is so much available. I think I'd find a town of only 85000 pretty boring! Just goes to show we are all different.

 

I do think it would be worthwhile coming out for a visit, because life is so different it's hard to imagine. The risk with a visit is that you treat it like a holiday and spend all your time at the beach or in the trendy beachside suburbs that are full of restaurants and bars, so you get a totally unrealistic idea what life would be like. So you do need to rein in the temptation to have a holiday and treat it as a research visit! Perhaps you could arrange to stay with your friends in Perth? Particularly as it may be some years in the future before you're able to actually migrate, so you'll have time to save up again.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Marisawright

[Guest]

Definitely research weather in potential locations but I'd like to point out that daily average maxima in Melbourne's winter months vary between 13.5 and 15 and minima around 6 - 7 degrees - which is hardly "vile" for many people. We have lower than that here in Hobart - and it's still warmer than anywhere in the UK.

 

Adelaide's average temps are 1 - 2 degrees above Melbourne's in winter. Adelaide's summer months average a bit under 30 degrees - but it is a dry heat...and much more bearable IMO than lower temps and humidity on the east coast. I lived in suburban Adelaide for 6 years and not once was impacted by bushfire - although obviously it's a consideration if you live in the Adelaide Hills or other rural fringe areas.

 

I find the Adelaide climate pretty decent. Winters don't last that long and yes it can get chilly (more noticeable in poorly insulated houses or those without decent heating) but since our first winter here I've never struggled with it or felt it was too cold. I am still amused at how many layers people will put on when its 10C outside. My son still wears school shorts all year, even in the middle of winter as its not cold enough for long trousers he says. I love it gets nippy and that we have a ground frost up in the hills in winter. Spring is usually lovely, not too hot or cold. Summer can see the temp hit the 40's for a few days here and there and we did have one spell a few summers back where it didn't go under 40C for a fair few days. But overall its fine. Hot days for me now are over 35C and I tend to find indoors jobs to do between 10-4pm then.

 

We do live in the hills right on the edge of farmland so the bushfire risk for us is perhaps higher than for many. We take it seriously, prepare our house and garden each spring and have our plan ready to go if its ever needed. And of course observe the bushfire warnings throughout the season and take notice on the days where we get specific warnings. Our son's school will also close on days forecast 'extreme' but as yet this has not happened and its been 3 or so years there now.

 

I find it a dry heat here and much more bearable than humid heat. All up, apart from the really hot days in summer its not really an issue. Air con and a couple of cool showers help there for sure then.

[AJ]

"Definitely research weather in potential locations but I'd like to point out that daily average maxima in Melbourne's winter months vary between 13.5 and 15 and minima around 6 - 7 degrees - which is hardly "vile" for many people. We have lower than that here in Hobart - and it's still warmer than anywhere in the UK. "

 

 

 

 

Yup I cant remember a vile winter in Melbourne either and I did 4 of them! some people can be a bit over dramatic!

Edited August 29, 2016 by AJ

[Keith and Linda]

Brisbane, without doubt the best year round climate in Australia!

[NicoleWalt]

Thank you again for all the recent posts.

 

A recce definitely sounds a good idea but it's just the costs.

 

We have spoken and would like to look at Perth as a possibility but also on the other side of the country Brisbane and Townsville.

We have friends in Perth and Airlie Beach who love where they live and as you say recommend us visiting. I have priced up a general 3 week stay with flights, accommodation and cars and it's coming in at £6000 (ish) then we would need spending money for food, travel, being out and about.

 

Then the visa process I have been advised will cost around £5000.

 

So that's £13000+ just for a visit and the visa.

 

We don't have that kind of money available to us at the moment and it would take a while to save.

 

We would hope to use the equity in our house and selling our belongings for set up in Australia but that money obviously isn't there until we've made the decision and sold up.

 

Decisions, decisions!

[VERYSTORMY]

In your situation then I would not do a recce before the visa. Most people have to do a recce after the visa is granted as once it is granted you must activate it by entering Australia within 12 months of police or medical checks, which ever was earliest. So, about 9-10 months after grant. Many find it is not possible to do the move in that time, particularly if there is a house to sell and so do an activation visit.

 

In your position, you do need to plan the "what if". In other words what if you have to move back. We are one of a third who did because of lack of work. So, we found ourselves at Heathrow with a suitcase each, no house, no belongings or anything. We don't have children and wouldn't want to have been in that situation if we did.