Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Can a right wing extremist who has nazi paraphernalia in his home and has subscribed to a white supremacist magazine, has an illegal gun and yells Britain first use mental illness as a defence ? I would say No. ............depends what news you read.... ............the press have a reputation for inflaming and exaggerating ...'news' )]Eyewitness tells reporters he didn’t hear anyone shout “Britain first”, saying: “Never heard that”. [/color]pic.twitter.com/ Update 1830 — Widely quoted local admits he didn’t hear “Britain First” Local restaurant owner Hicham Ben Abdallah, widely quoted across the media as having claimed Mr. Mair shouted, “Britain First” has told Breitbart London “No, no. I did not hear that”. ............untill it's been investigated we havnt really got a true picture of all that went on... ............what tipped this man with a history of mental illness over the edge...? ............to cause such harm to an innocent young women.... .............remove the politics......remove the hype... .............and hopefully a suitable punishment......for a tragic wrong.....will be reached. Edited June 18, 2016 by Tink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 No doubt he will get life in prison, but it won't bring Jo back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 ............depends what news you read................the press have a reputation for inflaming and exaggerating ...'news' )]Eyewitness tells reporters he didn’t hear anyone shout “Britain first”, saying: “Never heard that”. [/color]pic.twitter.com/ Update 1830 — Widely quoted local admits he didn’t hear “Britain First” Local restaurant owner Hicham Ben Abdallah, widely quoted across the media as having claimed Mr. Mair shouted, “Britain First” has told Breitbart London “No, no. I did not hear that”. ............untill it's been investigated we havnt really got a true picture of all that went on... ............what tipped this man with a history of mental illness over the edge...? ............to cause such harm to an innocent young women.... .............remove the politics......remove the hype... .............and hopefully a suitable punishment......for a tragic wrong.....will be reached. He has just appeared in court and when asked his name said "Death to traitors, Freedom for Britain". His motivation is clear Tink, unless you think the BBC is lying and exaggerating too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) He has just appeared in court and when asked his name said "Death to traitors, Freedom for Britain". His motivation is clear Tink, unless you think the BBC is lying and exaggerating too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005 ...........I've always given everyone the benefit of the doubt.... ............untill proved otherwise...... .............I am sad I've been proved wrong again,,... ..........just to add..... ...........if........he is suffering mental illness as well as being punished for the crime... ............it's addressed...! Edited June 18, 2016 by Tink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I have friends in common with Jo Cox, and by all accounts she was a wonderful person, who wanted nothing more than to serve the constituents in the place that she was born and raised. She was an advocate of peace and justice, and did not deserve to die in the cross fire of what is going on in the UK at the moment. I just hope that this event creates big enough ripples around the UK that extremists and fear-mongers on all sides stop and take a look at what they are doing to the country. The perpetrator may well have been mentally ill, and for that I can sympathise having suffered with mental illnesses myself, but he was radicalised to the point that he took the life of the mother of two small children who will now have to grow up wondering how someone could have hated their mother so much. The government needs to take a good hard look at what is snowballing the radicalisation of people from all walks of life, and they need to put measures in place to ensure that extremism, in whatever form, has no place in British society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommie Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I don't see why the issue of what he did or didn't say matters at all. For the record, a witness was on the TV (trending on social media) and he clearly said "Britain first or put Britain first"... he said I can't be sure the exact words, but I definitely heard the words "Britain First". This is a migration forum. Most of us, perhaps all of us are planning to migrate or have already done so. Migration can be and is often a real positive to the receiving country (economically). I spent 5 years in Australia and paid taxes without drawing on any social benefits. My kids went to private schools and I had my own health care. I bought cars, furniture, groceries and the like. The majority of migrants coming into the UK, especially from the EU do exactly the same. They come here to work and earn money, pay taxes and contribute to our society. They fill essential roles in public services such as the NHS and day in and day out, help save lives... There is a minority who take more than they pay and I definitely agree we need legislation to tackle this (the Cameron deal is a start to tackle this). But I find the lack of compassion and recognition of the positive impacts of migration disappointing. Jo died because a nutter killed her. Perhaps she died because of her political views (it's hard to understand why else he targeted her).. or maybe there was another reason. To her two young children and her husband, I am sure this is very much a secondary issue. Britain is great because it is tolerant and free. We have done well within Europe. Idiots like this killer are naturally attracted to extremist right wing groups, just as Hitler surrounded himself with the extremist intolerant of German society. Every country has an element of its population that is extremist... when they are Muslim we call them terrorist when they are white Christian, we called them far right or we say they are suffering from mental illnesses. The silent majority need to be clear in our message that we do not support this way of life. RIP Jo.... Edited June 18, 2016 by Pommie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Libra Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 This is just such an awful story. Such a vile crime. Her poor family. What scares me the most is with every atrocity that happens, it hardens us and we don't end up as shocked and horrified as we should. I was born in a not so great area of the U.K., but violence especially knife and gun crime never happened, now it's a weekly event. If things progress at that level, what happens in 10,20 or 30 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deryans Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Your assumption is that he must have been mentally ill to do such a shocking act.Not a valid assumption at all. not a valid assumption ? why would you post this statement, quite odd, trolling ? [h=1]Thomas Mair: Man arrested in connection with Jo Cox attack was a 'loner' with 'history of mental health problems'[/h]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/jo-cox-mp-everything-we-know-so-far-about-thomas-mair/ Edited June 18, 2016 by deryans headline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Unfortunately this will not be the last person who loses their life this way. This time it was a person in public life but it happens to ordinary people as well. The accountant at the police station in Aus just going about his day and was killed by a radicalised person. My feeling is that to perpetrate such an act one has to be mentally unstable and this is the problem. Over many yearss we have closed psychiatric institutions, encouraged people with mental illness to be independent and look after themselves and this is fine, but there is a problem in all countries we are not prepared to pay for enough staff to supervise people and look after them in the public arena so when they are having an episode or becoming ill and ask for help they get told to make an appointment. People who suffer with this sort of mental illness need a person to call 24/7 not to make an appointment. Until we do this there will be many other innocent people who will lose their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 not a valid assumption ? why would you post this statement, quite odd, trolling ? Thomas Mair: Man arrested in connection with Jo Cox attack was a 'loner' with 'history of mental health problems' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/jo-cox-mp-everything-we-know-so-far-about-thomas-mair/ You seem to have misunderstood the point made. Mental illness whether it existed or not should not be immediately seen as justification or the reason for the crime. As LKC pointed out, she has sufferred from mental illness. Has she brutally murdered an innocent person in the street ? No. And the majority of people who have suffered from mental illness haven't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Unfortunately this will not be the last person who loses their life this way. This time it was a person in public life but it happens to ordinary people as well. The accountant at the police station in Aus just going about his day and was killed by a radicalised person. My feeling is that to perpetrate such an act one has to be mentally unstable and this is the problem. Over many yearss we have closed psychiatric institutions, encouraged people with mental illness to be independent and look after themselves and this is fine, but there is a problem in all countries we are not prepared to pay for enough staff to supervise people and look after them in the public arena so when they are having an episode or becoming ill and ask for help they get told to make an appointment. People who suffer with this sort of mental illness need a person to call 24/7 not to make an appointment. Until we do this there will be many other innocent people who will lose their life. Of course not. Horrible crimes are committed every day, including rape and murder. Mental illness has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I can never understand when people pretend to show compassion for a murderer and yet not utter a single word of compassion for their poor victims. Who has done that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 You seem to have misunderstood the point made.Mental illness whether it existed or not should not be immediately seen as justification or the reason for the crime. As LKC pointed out, she has sufferred from mental illness. Has she brutally murdered an innocent person in the street ? No. And the majority of people who have suffered from mental illness haven't either. I don't think that anyone is seeking to justify the crime by way of mental illness but merely pointing out that the reason for it may well be because of the mental illness. Of course, the majority of people who have suffered from mental illness haven't committed a crime, but that fact should not be used as argument that this person's crime cannot be better understood. There are varying degrees of, and manifestations of, mental illness. Someone suffering unipolar or clinical depression is not likely to manifest that depression in the same way that someone suffering a psychotic episode will and the former is unlikely to commit a heinous act. A psychotic episode may involve the sufferer hearing voices that compel him/her to commit a heinous act. There is a huge difference between the two and to dismiss mental illness as a cause for a heinous act by way of stating that most people with mental illness don't commit that act, is a "red herring" for want of better words. Some media has reported that this perpetrator did suffer from psychosis and had asked for help less than 48hrs prior to committing the act and didn't receive appropriate help. If this is the case, and at the time of the act he was suffering a manic episode, then any right-minded person (IMHO) should ask themselves, "just who/what is the guilty party here?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Well you certainly have not expressed any compassion for the victim or her husband. Only the murderer. I for one think it is very easy for people who commit terrible crimes to play the mental issues defence. .........see below.....! ...........there is no one......myself included who could fail to have compassion for those wronged...!............the family and friends of those involved in the tragedy.... .............as to the....play mental issues defence.... ...............I think this is a poor comment..... .................mental health can be an awful and debilitating problem... ...................perhaps wait for the findings before assuming it was...played. You seem to have misunderstood the point made.Mental illness whether it existed or not should not be immediately seen as justification or the reason for the crime. As LKC pointed out, she has sufferred from mental illness. Has she brutally murdered an innocent person in the street ? No. And the majority of people who have suffered from mental illness haven't either. ............mental illness can be a contributing factor.... ............. rates of offending in persons with schizophrenia are influenced by area characteristics similar to those that influence rates in the general population. ...........lPeople with schizophrenia are more likely to be exposed to these influences and to other risk factors for offending behaviour. ....................Crime prevention considerations point to a greater need for services for people with serious mental illness living in areas characterised by social disorganisation or inequality. ...............I do feel a great sympathy for the loss of life......to the family affected.... ................but to ignore the reasons why..... .................the contributing factors...... .................won't help future risks...... ..................I don't know for certain his mental health.......like most I have only the press to rely on... ....................there is no justification for the crime.... ......................but there may have been an avoidable catalyst.... .........................as petals has said..... ...........................without the proper help available.......people such as the accused......could be.....at risk to both themselves and others...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) Given his performance in the court hearing which is just demonstrating his right wing extremism and nothing like a psychotic episode at all, it seems very unlikely that it can be argued he did not know what he was doing. I have heard no mention of anyone saying in court that he was having a psychotic episode. No doubt we will hear more in due course, but it looks like a right wing fanatic to me. PS> Gullible people do like to believe the best in people which is understandable as it is hard to consider the truth at times. Edited June 19, 2016 by Kavanagh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 For goodness sake don't turn this thread into poster argueing against poster. A woman in her prime has lost her life in dreadfull circumstances, 2 children have lost their mother, and her husband has lost his wife, that's where our sympathies should lie, and we should spare a thought for the family of the man who sadly appeared to be suffering a mental illness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 PS> Gullible people do like to believe the best in people which is understandable as it is hard to consider the truth at times. ...........I wouldn't say it's ...gullible.......or is it easier..... ...........to look beyond the tragedy..... ...........to try and understand if there is a why... ............to try and find a way this can never happen again..... ............without causing a mass suspicion and anger against a group of people who suffer with mental illness.... ...........a women died...... ............and IMO it's our duty to try and ensure it doesn't happen again... .............to try and find a way to ensure the safety of those who have the strength and compassion to represent us... ...............a women whose family and friends are grieving.....wanting answers.... ..............by ensuring those who could cause harm.......are monitored in a safe place.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) You will never eradicate right wing extremism any more than you can eradicate muslim extremism. It will always be with us. Terrorism is a scourge that will continue. Edited June 19, 2016 by Kavanagh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickyplum Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 For goodness sake don't turn this thread into poster argueing against poster. A woman in her prime has lost her life in dreadfull circumstances, 2 children have lost their mother, and her husband has lost his wife, that's where our sympathies should lie, and we should spare a thought for the family of the man who sadly appeared to be suffering a mental illness. Agree @Kavanagh seems determined to keep the argument going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Agree @ramot. @Kavanagh seems determined to keep the argument going! I think we can move on and that argument will be left behind now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 At first it was thought it was a home made gun, people are asking how did he get a gun? that statement would not be asked in many countries were easy access to guns which is refreshing in the UK to be honest. I could get a gun so easily in Africa but I really would find it very hard to get one over here. If you are caught with a handgun over here vit will be prison which is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 So much for no gun deaths in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 So much for no gun deaths in the UK. Did someone say that? could you point it out please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parleycross1 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Seems he wasn't mentally ill after all. Jailed for life I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parleycross1 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/thomas-mair-found-guilty-of-jo-cox-murder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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