beach pig Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I don't think it works like that. The guy was white. You don't blame all white people. But you do blame all far right nut jobs. If you are embarrassed about being a member, then maybe an inward look is overdue. And of course the irony is that a large number of those terrorist attacks, if not the majority were committed by the far right. Majority killed by the far right?i think you need your pills.and watch the news more carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach pig Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 There's the rub! It is very hard to have an intelligent debate on immigration without some nutjob with a skinhead and swastika tats grinning madly and gesturing to come aboard the hate boat. its not all skinheads and swastikas, like all the left don't wear masks and hoodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach pig Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I don't think it works like that. The guy was white. You don't blame all white people. But you do blame all far right nut jobs. If you are embarrassed about being a member, then maybe an inward look is overdue. And of course the irony is that a large number of those terrorist attacks, if not the majority were committed by the far right. I am white but not far right in thinking just concerned that's all.is that inward look as you say applicable too all?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The tone of this thread is becoming depressingly familiar. It is a very sad personal tragedy. I have little doubt that the perpetrator was a psychotic loner. No rational person could link this to the Leave campaign. Much as I personally disagree with much of the Leave material, in a democracy there must be freedom to express views and argue your position. This matter should be determined at the ballot box on Thursday and this tragic incident should not have any bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) Majority killed by the far right?i think you need your pills.and watch the news more carefully. Ho hum http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619 http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/ Although I expect most terrorism in the middle East is performed by Muslims, depending on your definition of terrorism. Edited June 17, 2016 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I am white but not far right in thinking just concerned that's all.is that inward look as you say applicable too all?. I re evaluate my views daily. Sometimes I even change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) What do you mean Quoll ?The media states he has neo-nazi links . http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-17/jo-cox-alleged-killer-tommy-mair-had-neo-nazi-links/7520362 Why are you suggesting conspiracy theories ? Because the media are focussing on his 27 year old link with a South African magazine, and ignoring the fact the poor sod was a long term schizophrenic who had sought help the day before he went postal. Edited June 18, 2016 by Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 Because the media are focussing on his 27 year old link with a South African magazine, and ignoring the fact the poor sod was a long tern schizophrenic who had sought help the day before he went postal. Jo Cox was the poor sod not this bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Jo Cox was the poor sod not this bastard. Do you not understand the horror of living with an illness that controls your thoughts and actions? Do you not understand the enormity of the impact that he may experience when he is sufficiently medicated to realise that he is now a murderer and responsible for her death? Yes she is the innocent victim in this, as are her family and friends, and nothing can be done to bring her back. But to look on this man as a "bastard" just goes to show how shallow you are. Individuals with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The last may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to speech that is not understandable known as word salad. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia Edited June 18, 2016 by snifter removed personal comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I suppose you would send him home with a cup of tea and a biscuit. I hope he is locked away for life for his evil crime. There is no excuse for his actions. Edited June 18, 2016 by snifter removed personal comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness (schizophrenia). Too many people suffering from this dreadful illness aren't getting the help they need ................... then all Hell breaks out when something awful like this happens. Should be preventable for the sufferer with proper psychiatric support and medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I suppose you would send him home with a cup of tea and a biscuit. I hope he is locked away for life for his evil crime. There is no excuse for his actions. Thanks for proving me right. What I think he needs is probably a life-long stay in a secure mental health unit, treatment and medication. The sort of unit I've worked in. I hope no one in your family ever gets mentally ill, with compassion such as yours they'd be in for a terrible life. Edited June 18, 2016 by snifter removed personal comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 I reserve my compassion for the victims and their families not their murderers. The vast majority of people who have mental illness do not brutally murder people and it is no excuse. You are also assuming that is why he murdered her. I'm pleased to see he has now been formally charged with murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I suppose you would send him home with a cup of tea and a biscuit. I hope he is locked away for life for his evil crime. There is no excuse for his actions. ........but there is a reason....! .........he was mentally ill.... ..........somewhere the health system failed him.... ............a chain of events with a trajic ending...... Edited June 18, 2016 by snifter removed personal comment (quote) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 Your assumption is that he must have been mentally ill to do such a shocking act. Not a valid assumption at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Your assumption is that he must have been mentally ill to do such a shocking act.Not a valid assumption at all. ..........and your assumption that he deserves his punishment......regardless of the mitigating circumstances.... ...........the high profile surroundings of the crime..... ............will do little to ensure he is tried for murder while experiencing mental problems.... .............it could be used as not only a political point ......but will push the public's opinion of the mentally ill to a new all time low... ...............yes it was a shocking and atrocious act.... .................but the underlying reasons need to be addressed to stop this happening in the future... ...................I only hope the plight and potential danger of lack of care and guidance for the mentally ill is addressed... .....................it won't right a trajic wrong......but may prevent a future one... .......................yes the law has a moral obligation to protect the public....punish the law breakers..... .........................but the mentally ill have a right to treatment..... ...........................untill further investigation we don't know what he had available....or his mental state at the time...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I reserve my compassion for the victims and their families not their murderers. The vast majority of people who have mental illness do not brutally murder people and it is no excuse. You are also assuming that is why he murdered her. I'm pleased to see he has now been formally charged with murder. Again, you're not ashamed to show your ignorance are you? This has to take the prize for one of the most stupid things ever posted here; The vast majority of people who have mental illness do not brutally murder people and it is no excuse. You're not afraid to show your profound ignorance, and lack of compassion, in many forms aren't you? it is no excuse. Luckily for us who work with mentally ill people, the law understands ill health a damn site better than you do! Insanity in English law is a defence to criminal charges based on the idea that the defendant was unable to understand what he was doing, or, that he was unable to understand that what he was doing was wrong.The defence comes in two forms; where the defendant claims he was insane at the time of the crime, and where the defendant asserts he is insane at the time of trial. In the first situation, the defendant must show that he was either suffering from a disease which damaged the functioning of the mind and led to a defect of reason that prevented him from understanding what he was doing, or that he could not tell that what he was doing was wrong. In the second situation, the test is whether or not the defendant can differentiate between "guilty" and "not guilty" verdicts, instruct counsel and recognise the charges he is facing. If successful, he is likely to be detained under the Criminal Procedure (Insanity) Act 1964, although judges have a wide discretion as to what to do. Want a tenner on him being found not guilty by reason of insanity? Edited June 18, 2016 by Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Since the arrest, neighbors and relatives have described Mair as a quiet loner who needed treatment for mental illness. Mair was born in Kilmarnock, Scotland, and lived in a semi-detached house on the Fieldheld estate in Birstell, a 15-minute walk from where Cox was killed. He lived in the house with his grandmother till her death in 1996, and has since lived alone. Mair is unmarried, childless and has been described by neighbors as quiet and a loner who volunteered to trim their hedges. His half-brother, Duane St Louis, whose father is West Indian, said that Mair once had a girlfriend, “but his mate took her off him and he said he didn’t want another one,” reports the Guardian. St Louis, 41, was shocked to hear about the murder saying Mair would not hurt anyone and never displayed any signs of racism. Speaking to the Telegraph, local assembly line worker David Pickles said: “He is just a bit of a loner who keeps himself to himself but always says hello. He seemed to like his own company but I would not say he was unfriendly – he would always pass the time of day….I know he spent a lot of time in the library in town and liked to go on the computers there – I don’t know what he was looking up.” Mair has spoken about receiving “psychotherapy and medication” in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner, where he says he began volunteering after attending a day centre for adults with mental health problems. “All these problems are alleviated by doing voluntary work. Getting out of the house and meeting new people is a good thing, but more important in my view is doing physically demanding and useful labor,” he said in the interview. Mair was photographed a year later in 2011, volunteering at a local park. Mair’s other brother, Scott, 49, told reporters that his brother had a history of mental illness and has never expressed violent or political views. So it seems to me he had a long standing mental illness, and was possibly in the acute stage when he went off the rails. The loner suspected of killing Jo Cox appeared deeply disturbed just 24 hours before the attack, a health counsellor said last night.Thomas Mair said after stumbling into a 'well-being centre' on Wednesday night that he was depressed and had been on medication for a long time.The counsellor who spoke to him for about 15 minutes on Wednesday said she realised he was in 'some sort of crisis' and there appeared to be a 'real problem'. Neighbours said the obsessive recluse was often seen wandering around the town and had not received any formal mental health treatment for five years. Edited June 18, 2016 by Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Righto. :mask: Lets not go off the rails here. I've tidied the thread, removed the comment and replies to it and suggest instead of replying to personal comments or inflammatory remarks and therefore adding more fuel to fan the flames, you ignore and/or report and let the mods deal with the offending post(s). Reporting such stuff is always appreciated, so thanks for this one TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I can never understand when people pretend to show compassion for a murderer and yet not utter a single word of compassion for their poor victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 ............don't think there is any lack of compassion for the victim of the crime..... ............just an understanding that the accused has a mental problem that could be a contributing factor.... .............and perhaps an avoidable crime had the right help been available .............it's a sad fact that many mentally ill are left to fend for themselves.... .............and only wen such catastrophic and heart wrenching events happen..... ..............does the dangers of little or no help for severe mental problems.....come into the public eye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Well you certainly have not expressed any compassion for the victim or her husband. Only the murderer. I for one think it is very easy for people who commit terrible crimes to play the mental issues defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Well you certainly have not expressed any compassion for the victim or her husband. Only the murderer. I for one think it is very easy for people who commit terrible crimes to play the mental issues defence. ...........there is no one......myself included who could fail to have compassion for those wronged...! ............the family and friends of those involved in the tragedy.... .............as to the....play mental issues defence.... ...............I think this is a poor comment..... .................mental health can be an awful and debilitating problem... ...................perhaps wait for the findings before assuming it was...played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kavanagh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Can a right wing extremist who has nazi paraphernalia in his home and has subscribed to a white supremacist magazine, has an illegal gun and yells Britain first use mental illness as a defence ? I would say No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Can a right wing extremist who has nazi paraphernalia in his home and has subscribed to a white supremacist magazine, has an illegal gun and yells Britain first use mental illness as a defence ? I would say No. will be interesting to see what plea his leagal time put in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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