Paul1Perth Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 It's all well and good with massive foreign investment in new build projects but with some of the new trade agreements many are now allowed to bring in an all foreign workforce on these massive build projects. So no new jobs on these projects for local workers. With a bit of luck the Unions will put a lot of political pressure on to make sure that a lot of the jobs created go to local people and companies. The Labor Party need to follow this line as it's a gift from the Liberals that they need to put a lot of focus on. I think they are missing an opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 They are being built as cheaply as possible in numerous cases. Who knows if they meet standards or not or how taxing those standards are to be met or some kick backs oiling the way? There was me thinking Australia was largely free from graft and corruption. When was the last time an apartment block or office block collapsed because of shoddy construction? There are always cowboys around of course but not the likes of Meriton and Mirvac surely. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think the posts on here from some people who've been in a well paid mining job and can't find work for love or money prove that it's not as easy as you make it sound Flybynight. Do we claim to live in a capitalist society?:confused: If we do I'm all for a little more socialism because as things are heading towards more and more automation, driven by the ever increasing demand for profit for shareholders and productivity improvements. The end game is less and less manual jobs and even skilled jobs are going to be in decline. That's the big problem with capitalism, it's all about profit and the rich getting richer and sod the working guy and the community. But capitalism needs consumers and if everybody is out of work then who has the money to buy goods and services. I'd like to see staff employed and at every railway station and bus conductors on every bus the way it used to be. Maybe there is a way to make sure everyone has a job but communism not capitalism collapsed because of its contradictions. I've never been in high paid jobs though I do own shares, in Woodside and ANZ and I used to have a lot more in Qantas, Westfarmers, Fosters. I like owning shares and we all own them indirectly thru our superannuation and other funds. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well being part of it they obviously do. The question being why don't you? Besides being unconcerned as it doesn't impact on you personally. Are there flaws in our system of government? Of course, but what alternative form of government can you propose that is more democratic and less prone to corruption? You seem prone to conspiracy theories? Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 That is not what I said. What is wrong is not giving locals the opportunities. Recruiting abroad instead of training and increasing not even market testing , may prove cost effective for business but poor outcomes for those born/living here. Give locals the jobs first? I like it. Charity begins at home after all, so give Australians public housing before we house any refugees, and of course jobs too. But the guys I know on 457 visas all seem to have been recruited or head-hunted to do jobs that locals can't do or the employers can't fill the vacancies And of course Australians with skills often move overseas to work too. I know there are rorts around but nothing on the scale you believe in. 457 holders have to jump thru various financial and medical hoops before they are accepted, and they don't get dole if they lose their jobs either. Well being part of it they obviously do. The question being why don't you? Besides being unconcerned as it doesn't impact on you personally. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 But capitalism needs consumers and if everybody is out of work then who has the money to buy goods and services. I'd like to see staff employed and at every railway station and bus conductors on every bus the way it used to be. Maybe there is a way to make sure everyone has a job but communism not capitalism collapsed because of its contradictions. I've never been in high paid jobs though I do own shares, in Woodside and ANZ and I used to have a lot more in Qantas, Westfarmers, Fosters. I like owning shares and we all own them indirectly thru our superannuation and other funds. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk There's the conundrum Maryrose, you've nailed it. We are already seeing the start of who has the money when loads of people just buy things on the never, never, getting more and more into debt then we will have to have another GFC as people can't pay the loans back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think the posts on here from some people who've been in a well paid mining job and can't find work for love or money prove that it's not as easy as you make it sound Flybynight. Do we claim to live in a capitalist society?:confused: If we do I'm all for a little more socialism because as things are heading towards more and more automation, driven by the ever increasing demand for profit for shareholders and productivity improvements. The end game is less and less manual jobs and even skilled jobs are going to be in decline. That's the big problem with capitalism, it's all about profit and the rich getting richer and sod the working guy and the community. all true, which begs the question, what is to be done. we can do the luddite and smash the looms wanting to go back to the old ways, or we can adapt. infact there isnt this choice, this is australian society. like it or not it's gonna happen, adapt or die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 There was me thinking Australia was largely free from graft and corruption. When was the last time an apartment block or office block collapsed because of shoddy construction? There are always cowboys around of course but not the likes of Meriton and Mirvac surely. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Sorry didn't realise you were not long of the boat. Your forgiven then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 all true, which begs the question, what is to be done. we can do the luddite and smash the looms wanting to go back to the old ways, or we can adapt. infact there isnt this choice, this is australian society. like it or not it's gonna happen, adapt or die. It is how it is implemented. Yes we can learn to adapt to a low wage,casual work place environment , or we can demand greater transparency,honesty and as a nation taken along with the changes and given the correct tools to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sorry didn't realise you were not long of the boat. Your forgiven then. I'm in Sydney of course, not the "Wild West" where cowboys (and indians) still roam, taking what they want, where they want. Nobody is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 There's the conundrum Maryrose, you've nailed it. We are already seeing the start of who has the money when loads of people just buy things on the never, never, getting more and more into debt then we will have to have another GFC as people can't pay the loans back. The price of having 'cheap money' in order to stimulate the economy, I'm afraid. People forget at some stage the bill has to be paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm in Sydney of course, not the "Wild West" where cowboys (and indians) still roam, taking what they want, where they want. Nobody is safe. True enough not out in the Wild West. And Wild it was during the 80's. Still are you suggesting Sydney is corrupt 'free'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Politicians, on the whole, don't actually think long term at all. We have elections much too frequently for this - to the extent that all 99.9% care about is winning the forthcoming election- and with only 4 year terms they are always forthcoming. Australia cries out for fast trains linking the capital cities but it never happens because they just can't do it in a 4 year term looking over their shoulders . The will to push things through just isn't there. Similarly, and disgracefully, much of out country is uninhabitable ecause they haven't sent any water into the dry areas. They have only had 250 years to do it. Very frustrating but think of all the jobs they would create if they got off their bums, ignored all the protests about rare yellow flecked moths and the couple of dozen who might be affected by the rail going through the edge of their land, and just did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Politicians, on the whole, don't actually think long term at all. We have elections much too frequently for this - to the extent that all 99.9% care about is winning the forthcoming election- and with only 4 year terms they are always forthcoming. Australia cries out for fast trains linking the capital cities but it never happens because they just can't do it in a 4 year term looking over their shoulders . The will to push things through just isn't there. Similarly, and disgracefully, much of out country is uninhabitable ecause they haven't sent any water into the dry areas. They have only had 250 years to do it. Very frustrating but think of all the jobs they would create if they got off their bums, ignored all the protests about rare yellow flecked moths and the couple of dozen who might be affected by the rail going through the edge of their land, and just did it. Small problem with interstate rail is different gages (gauges?) in each state.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia Edited November 30, 2015 by Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Small problem with interstate rail is different gages (gauges?) in each state.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia High speed train services need new tracks laid especially for them so the gauge isn't an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Give locals the jobs first? I like it. Charity begins at home after all, so give Australians public housing before we house any refugees, and of course jobs too. But the guys I know on 457 visas all seem to have been recruited or head-hunted to do jobs that locals can't do or the employers can't fill the vacancies And of course Australians with skills often move overseas to work too. I know there are rorts around but nothing on the scale you believe in. 457 holders have to jump thru various financial and medical hoops before they are accepted, and they don't get dole if they lose their jobs either. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk There are rorts on a rather wide scale, depending how you measure it. 457 of course a way in for those not able to qualify under normal immigration practices. Not many hoops actually. Proves easier not forgetting cheaper way to enter. Hopefully the screws tighten on it being used as a 'backdoor entry' way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 There are rorts on a rather wide scale, depending how you measure it. 457 of course a way in for those not able to qualify under normal immigration practices. Not many hoops actually. Proves easier not forgetting cheaper way to enter. Hopefully the screws tighten on it being used as a 'backdoor entry' way. So why don't WHV people apply for 457 instead and get a guaranteed four years here? I've not met a single 457 holder from England who isn't in a high powered and highly paid job here. The way they explained it is that the UK is ahead of Australia in their, usually, specialised IT fields, so they are in demand here. Would you allow ANYONE into Australia? Imagine the bureaucratic hoops you would impose on any employer wanting to head hunt from overseas. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 There's the conundrum Maryrose, you've nailed it. We are already seeing the start of who has the money when loads of people just buy things on the never, never, getting more and more into debt then we will have to have another GFC as people can't pay the loans back. Some people still have money it seems, and the majority are locals upgrading. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [ATTACH]32211[/ATTACH] Some people still have money it seems, and the majority are locals upgrading. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Don't know where the paper is based but the majority of people splashing the cash and laundering their money in property in Australia are Asian investors ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Arabs, Russians and Chinese also buying expensive real estate in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Don't know where the paper is based but the majority of people splashing the cash and laundering their money in property in Australia are Asian investors ... The Sydney Morning Herald is a Fairfax publication and one of the continuing ironies for me is that I regard it as a left-wing publication, which it is if you read the "Letters to the Editor" pages, full of righteous indignation about Tony Abbott and Rupert Murdoch, but, when you turn to the real estate pages, Murdoch would consider it too right wing for him, full of hushed and repectful reports about the "quality" and how many gazillions of dollars they have paid for or made on their harbourside mansions. The report does say that most of the purchasers are owner-occupiers living in the same area. There are so many "doom and gloom" merchants on here, i bet they are all reading "A Christmas Carol" back to front so Scrooge becomes mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 So why don't WHV people apply for 457 instead and get a guaranteed four years here? I've not met a single 457 holder from England who isn't in a high powered and highly paid job here. The way they explained it is that the UK is ahead of Australia in their, usually, specialised IT fields, so they are in demand here. Would you allow ANYONE into Australia? Imagine the bureaucratic hoops you would impose on any employer wanting to head hunt from overseas. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk So not my fault you don't come across or are aware of the rorts around 457's. Construction, tourism, meat workers, the list goes on. No that difficult to get workers into Australia at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The Sydney Morning Herald is a Fairfax publication and one of the continuing ironies for me is that I regard it as a left-wing publication, which it is if you read the "Letters to the Editor" pages, full of righteous indignation about Tony Abbott and Rupert Murdoch, but, when you turn to the real estate pages, Murdoch would consider it too right wing for him, full of hushed and repectful reports about the "quality" and how many gazillions of dollars they have paid for or made on their harbourside mansions. The report does say that most of the purchasers are owner-occupiers living in the same area. There are so many "doom and gloom" merchants on here, i bet they are all reading "A Christmas Carol" back to front so Scrooge becomes mean. You don't really expect any side of the media to critique an industry (real estate)that largely sustains it do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Arabs, Russians and Chinese also buying expensive real estate in the UK. Been the case for a very long time. Mostly London focused though. In Australia far more widely spread having greater impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 [ATTACH]32211[/ATTACH] Some people still have money it seems, and the majority are locals upgrading. Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk Chatswood is a rapidly changing demographic area so hardly surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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