Guest Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I ain't denying anything Cats anywhere will play with (and most likely harm in the process often leading to death) or kill another creature. Its one of the serious negatives about humans domesticating cats. That and them roaming wherever and the world being their toilet. Which of course will happen if they live alongside humans in built up areas. I'd be as passionate about preserving wildlife in the UK as I would be about Aus though (or anywhere else in the world). I can't defend the UK as being ok or acceptable because supposedly the wildlife there has evolved to evade being caught so much or some such. A domestic cat is a potential wildlife killer wherever, end of. I'm all for cats being kept but believe strongly in them needing to remain either indoors or within the grounds of the owners property. Kept there with proper cat fencing or an enclosure. I long ago stopped keeping cats as I could not in good conscience have them and let them roam free wherever because of the damage they can do. If we ever have a cat here it will have a run outside but not be allowed to free range. But I doubt we'll ever keep one again tbh. Edited September 24, 2015 by Guest added a line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I ain't denying anything Cats anywhere will play with (and most likely harm in the process often leading to death) or kill another creature. Its one of the serious negatives about humans domesticating cats. That and them roaming wherever and the world being their toilet. Which of course will happen if they live alongside humans in built up areas. I'd be as passionate about preserving wildlife in the UK as I would be about Aus though (or anywhere else in the world). I can't defend the UK as being ok or acceptable because supposedly the wildlife there has evolved to evade being caught so much or some such. A domestic cat is a potential wildlife killer wherever, end of. I'm all for cats being kept but believe strongly in them needing to remain either indoors or within the grounds of the owners property. Kept there with proper cat fencing or an enclosure. I long ago stopped keeping cats as I could not in good conscience have them and let them roam free wherever because of the damage they can do. If we ever have a cat here it will have a run outside but not be allowed to free range. But I doubt we'll ever keep one again tbh. Absolutely, cats a huge problem here as well. Native wildlife has of course evolved around similar predators so it does give them a small advantage, not enough unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Would you stop a bird from flying too and keep it locked up in a little cage ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Would you stop a bird from flying too and keep it locked up in a little cage ? Have you been drinking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Would you stop a bird from flying too and keep it locked up in a little cage ? I would never keep a bird as a pet. I don't believe in keeping them caged at all. I feel sorry for any caged parrot, minah, finch, budgie and so on in a home. Most birds do not go around killing lots of other types of wildlife, for fun or to eat. Sure some species of birds are known to take chicks from nests and so on, some will eat bugs, insects, small animals and of course birds of prey have evolved to kill and eat animals (they do so to survive). But they are wild creatures doing what comes naturally. And surviving. Cats that we domesticated and choose to keep as pets are a different thing altogether. I am more than happy that someone have a cat but I really don't see why people think they should have free range into other peoples homes and gardens, use them as litter trays and also do damage to the wildlife when roaming (when they are domesticated animals and we are responsible for them). Cats can be kept in doors just fine. If its all they know, they know no different and can live quite happily. Its the perception they need to roam all over the place whenever they want needs a rethink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Would you stop a bird from flying too and keep it locked up in a little cage ? The difference is, budgies don't kill other birds! The question is, why do you keep a cat? For the selfish pleasure of having a sweet furry animal for company. Is your selfish pleasure worth the death of even one native animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The difference is, budgies don't kill other birds! The question is, why do you keep a cat? For the selfish pleasure of having a sweet furry animal for company. Is your selfish pleasure worth the death of even one native animal? This is what I don't get, I see people all the time saying that their cat only kills the occasional animal, it's no big deal. Yes it is a big deal, if your cat kills one native animal then it is one too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The answer is simple, you keep your cats in! Cats are solitary animals, sleep circa 18 hours a day and need to fulfil their hunting instinct which can be met by playing with them. We have had Siamese cats whilst in the UK and with the exception of one, none of them wanted to go out despite backing into dense old English woodlands. The one which did go out was on a lead and never wanted to leave the garden. We are considering getting 2 cats again, house cats which we would walk on a lead if they wanted to go out. Kicking your cat out to fend for itself is lazy with the cat occupying itself by hunting. If they were played with they would be too tired to hunt. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 That is rubbish. A cat has a natural instinct to hunt and kill pray. It is a natural carnivore predator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) That is rubbish. A cat has a natural instinct to hunt and kill pray. It is a natural carnivore predator. Yes, glad to hear you say that. So it kills wildlife if you let it out. So is your view that it's OK to let your cat kill other animals for sport, just because it's a natural instinct? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19353/Cats-kill-275-million-animals-year.html Edited September 24, 2015 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 That is rubbish. A cat has a natural instinct to hunt and kill pray. It is a natural carnivore predator. I say round up all the killer cats like what you want done with Staffies :wink: If I ever get a cat it'll have to be a indoor cat. I don't want it out killing wildlife or potentially being splatted on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yes, glad to hear you say that. So it kills wildlife if you let it out. So is your view that it's OK to let your cat kill other animals for sport, just because it's a natural instinct? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-19353/Cats-kill-275-million-animals-year.html My cat has killed lots of rats and mice, the odd bird and one possum in its life. I'm happy that she kills the rats and mice. I'd prefer she didn't kill the others but that is life. Possums are actually in plague proportions around here. I'm not sure they have a natural predator which every animal needs to keep the population in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 My cat has killed lots of rats and mice, the odd bird and one possum in its life. I'm happy that she kills the rats and mice. I'd prefer she didn't kill the others but that is life. Possums are actually in plague proportions around here. I'm not sure they have a natural predator which every animal needs to keep the population in check. Hoe do you know that is a true count parley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Hoe do you know that is a true count parley? She always brings them to me to show me or I find them half eaten near the pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 That is rubbish. A cat has a natural instinct to hunt and kill pray. It is a natural carnivore predator. A cat has a natural instinct to hunt and kill prey in order to survive in a natural environment. It does not need to do this when its food is being provided by its owner in a domestic environment. Its chasing and climbing instincts can be be fully occupied by simple things like ping pong balls, climbing towers or the myriad of special cat toys available. Even a (cat-proof) garden with butterfly attracting plants: butterflies doing their natural butterfly things are hugely entertaining for cats but are too quick and out of reach for them. But, if none of this convinces you, then concern for your cat's safety should. It has been estimated that, in Australia, a "free to roam" cat's average life expectancy is less than 5 years. Kept safely, they can live out their natural life span for another 10 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Cats are fickle. I have bought my cats so many things over the years like toys and scratching poles and they won't even look at them. Just continue to scratch my furniture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 That they occasionally use a litter tray (what a revoulting thing to have in your house) .. Cats are cleaner than humans. Litter trays are not as revolting as the soiled nappy paraphernalia that come with human babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Without bothering to find the exact quotes, I have to say that there is enormous hypocrisy in this thread by humans scapegoating cats over threats to wildlife. The fact is that your house, your workplace, your shopping centre, the road you drive on has destroyed the habitat of wildlife in this country and forced them closer to extinction. Cats didn't do that - humans have. In addition, the roadkill toll in Australia is enormous: millions of animals each year. Not caused by cats driving cars. Humans driving cars. So let's stop this self righteous smugness about the evilness of cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 She always brings them to me to show me or I find them half eaten near the pool. Every single one?? how about the fully eaten ones? Cats can't trust them you know, evil, selfish, devious little creatures:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Every single one?? how about the fully eaten ones? Cats can't trust them you know, evil, selfish, devious little creatures:wink: Yes because I am the head of her family. So she brings me the offering to show me so I will praise her. Then she eats it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Without bothering to find the exact quotes, I have to say that there is enormous hypocrisy in this thread by humans scapegoating cats over threats to wildlife. The fact is that your house, your workplace, your shopping centre, the road you drive on has destroyed the habitat of wildlife in this country and forced them closer to extinction. Cats didn't do that - humans have. In addition, the roadkill toll in Australia is enormous: millions of animals each year. Not caused by cats driving cars. Humans driving cars. So let's stop this self righteous smugness about the evilness of cats. I totally agree. Humans are by far and away the worst offenders. But this was a thread about cats, so never really got into the humans being crap and destroying the planet, its resources and other lifeforms. And being as we are, leaving it in a far worse state for future generations. I don't think cats are evil. I rather like them. But as we domesticated them, I think we should be more responsible in our approach to keeping them. We have the knowledge and understanding of what we are doing now but don't seem to want to change much in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Cats are cleaner than humans. Litter trays are not as revolting as the soiled nappy paraphernalia that come with human babies. I think litter trays are great. I only wish all cats would use them or be confined within their owners land to use them. Not free to roam into other peoples homes and gardens and crap there. I don't appreciate cat poo in my garden where kids or adults could come into contact with it (or long after it has itself gone) and suffer potential illness because of it. Wild rodents we cannot control in such a way but a cat can be confined to someones home or their garden. Why should I have to clean up my neighbours cat crap from my flower beds or plant pots or lawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 We have two cats, one of which is a keen hunter, we have installed a cat bib on him - basically a velcroed triangle of material attached to his collar which does make it hard for the cat to jump on prey. It seems to work well. But I do think these will be our last two cats in Australia for wildlife's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackToLife Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 When I left the UK, I left the stray cat who had adopted me behind. Although I loved her to bits, she was a killer, and anything she could kill, she did. Even the two bells on her collar did not help, as she learned how to hold her head still while hunting. So as much as it hurt me, there was no way I could bring her to Australia. She is now living the high life on a farm in Wales, catching rats and mice in the barn during the day, and is a much loved housecat at night. Once back home, I desperately wanted a cat, but was very worried about the impact on the wildlife, particularly as the house I live in is not conducive to building an outside cat run, due to its construction. But having had cats for the best part of 40 years, I finally gave in, and the rescue cat I now have is an absolute delight. She has no interest in wildlife at all. She will sit quite happily on the lawn in peaceful harmony with the magpies, kookaburras, and lorikeets, and not even blink. She has NO interest in them at all. But those wretched mynahs have an interest in her, and will chase her relentlessly if I am not around. She spends most of her time inside, sleeping in the sun on the back verandah, and when she does goes outside during the day, I am usually with her. She is always inside at night, and to those who say I am delusional, as she is probably off hunting and gathering while I am not looking, I will re-iterate once more. She has NO interest in chasing after and catching wildlife at all. My brother has a banana plantation, and so many people simply dump their unwanted cats and dogs near their property. Strangely enough, the dogs seem to last much longer than the cats, possibly because the cats fall prey very quickly to the goannas and snakes, while the dogs eventually take longer to starve to death. It is truly dreadful that some people see this as a solution to getting rid of unwanted animals, as those that do survive end up adding to the enormous feral problem endemic in Australia. This is a problem that urgently needs to be addressed, otherwise the feral cat/dog population will continue to grow unabated. Finally, I just want to add my thoughts to the following comment: The question is, why do you keep a cat? For the selfish pleasure of having a sweet furry animal for company. Is your selfish pleasure worth the death of even one native animal? This is a spurious argument, as humans also play a very important part in the destruction of native animals. Increasingly we are encroaching on habitats that once were exclusively native habitats with our housing estates, roads, industrial waste runoff, etc. The human race is anything but blameless, and one of the major dangers to animals is the car. So ask yourself. Is your selfish pleasure worth the death of even one native animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 My cat has killed lots of rats and mice, the odd bird and one possum in its life. I'm happy that she kills the rats and mice. I'd prefer she didn't kill the others but that is life.. That's life, is it? So you're quite happy for your cat and thousands of others to kill endangered wildlife for fun, because "that's life". Words fail me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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