Jeremy Corbyn, thoughts?

[Danny842003]

As a Tory I think his appointment is brilliant.

 

He just loves being the centre of attention won't sing god save the Queen at a battle of Britain commemoration but has sworn his allegiance to the queen to take his seat in the commons. Now I do understand he is a Republican and he is free to be one but it does look slightly hypocritical and in bad taste.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I think part of the PR media spinning politics since Blair came into power has removed voter's responsibility to think for themselves.

I think Corbyn's stance of just speaking his mind has two aims. One is that he hopes people support him. The other is that he hopes to show people that they can regain use of their own brains and think for themselves, whether they agree with him or not.

 

With the biased media in the UK these days (from both sides), it's more important that people regain the ability to observe, analyse, and make their own minds up, rather than being told what to think by any organisation that may be biased. All he can do is be consistent and hope people come round, under intense attacks that are likely to last as long as he does.

 

I've already read loads of rubbish on Facebook from poor, stupid people about "disrespecting the dead soldiers" about this refusal to sing GSTQ. It shows how dumb mental leaps can be made from reading The Sun. Read Headline > Believe > Outrage. It's a pretty wacky supposition when the only reason he went was to show respect for the fallen pilots, but the media knows that there are enough people out there who will believe anything they want them to, so until people actually get a grip on themselves nothing will change.

 

Media bias has always been there from left and right, and it needs to be balanced to show both sides, but the rhetoric these days is de-based, puerile and cartoonish....they don't give you both sides of an argument anymore, just a headline that means "You Need To Agree With This". It's as if they think people are too stupid to make their own minds up and need to be told what to think, so they cut the argument and go straight to the headline they want to push.

Any move away from that sort of rubbish is good for both sides of politics, if we want to regain an intelligent electorate that actually cares and can think for itself.

ABSOLUTELY, couldn't agree more, but whilst the education system is under the control of the neo-cons people will not be educated to make an intelligent analysis.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Those 7 day weeks ended before the Labour party existed. Conditions would have changed for the better with or without the Labour party. Besides, if you want to see really horrible working conditions look at any socialist country.

There are no Socialist states, only totalitarian regimes masquerading as Socialist states

[BacktoDemocracy]

Then you should be fully aware of what was around at the time. Actually it was a pretty darn good time.

Your 60s and 70s must have been in a parallel universe then, because my memory was that it was grim working a 42 hour week on a building site where you were glad when the mortar froze on the scaffold because you went home early, without pay though.

[BacktoDemocracy]

The number of people who are on struggle street but continue to have kids always amazes me too Stacey. We had 2 and I thought when my wife wanted the second one we couldn't afford it. I would have settled for one happily.

 

Sometimes I see a program that's about people on benefits and struggling, one is interviewed in the house and there a 3 or 4 kids running around the 50 inch flat screen TV with the interviewee sucking on her Park Drive and I instantly lose any sympathy.

I thought Park Drive had gone the way of the Woodbine, perhaps not!

[BacktoDemocracy]

It's hard to detect that all the Sky journo's are sticking to Rupert's script. Far easier with the ABC and Fairfax actually as you know they hate Abbott.

Abbott has gone, even I know that here in the UK

[bristolman]

Very much so. I suspect though England is too conservative and scared of change for him to go far. Unless he tones it down. It is not only Middle England he must convince but many, by all accounts from within his own party.

 

This is no Greece or Spain we are looking at here. The somewhat unflappable areas of the population he needs to win over will sadly likely find his politics too confronting. I desperately hope I am wrong.

 

It has nothing to do with being scared of change, it comes down to people having long memories and recall the bad old days of Labour's union led rule in the 70s. Not many want a return to those days.

[Paul1Perth]

Your 60s and 70s must have been in a parallel universe then, because my memory was that it was grim working a 42 hour week on a building site where you were glad when the mortar froze on the scaffold because you went home early, without pay though.

 

I was working for the NCB and Severn Trent Water Authority at the time. Continental shift work with the NCB. Funnily enough though, looking back I can only remember good times. Even thought the work was dirty and dangerous we had a laugh every day, nothing was ever taken too seriously, I had enough money to go out for a pint every night and not be frightened to buy a round, great bunch of mates, no worries to speak of, plenty of girls and good times, holidays abroad with mates, every weekend we would head off to Sheffield, go by the register office on the way from the station and cover one of us in confetti as it was always easier to pick up when you could pretend one of you was getting married and it was their last chance.:laugh:

 

Saturday afternoon soccer, Saturday night Sheffield and sometimes a live band, always lots of beer, Sunday morning soccer again (mostly to sober up from the night before but you would never tell the manager that), pub straight after then home to snooze on the settee to watch match of the day. Mum put the big Sunday Roast on, finish that and off to the pub yet again.

 

Monday was always a bit of a downer though.:wink:

 

Just read bristolmans post about unions and strikes. Sure I was on strike, my Dad was on strike even longer but we got through it, it was but a small part of growing up in the 60's and 70's, maybe a few weeks out of years of having a good time.

You can linger on the bad bits if you want I prefer to remember all the good bits. I worked a lot longer hours than 42 on continental shifts and had days, evening and worst of all night shift, where we used to rush through jobs so we could get our heads down for maybe an hour or so. My "bed" was the snap table, in the fitters cabin, in my overalls where I used to watch the rats running around on the heap of coke where we'd thrown bits of sandwiches. The coke was for the homemade massive stove that used to stop the fitters cabin from being 10 degrees below on a winters night. It's all part of growing up and a broad experience though. If you don't have the bad times how do you know when you've got it good? Start at the coalboard and every job after that is a doddle and you can't understand why people complain.:cool:

[BacktoDemocracy]

I was working for the NCB and Severn Trent Water Authority at the time. Continental shift work with the NCB. Funnily enough though, looking back I can only remember good times. Even thought the work was dirty and dangerous we had a laugh every day, nothing was ever taken too seriously, I had enough money to go out for a pint every night and not be frightened to buy a round, great bunch of mates, no worries to speak of, plenty of girls and good times, holidays abroad with mates, every weekend we would head off to Sheffield, go by the register office on the way from the station and cover one of us in confetti as it was always easier to pick up when you could pretend one of you was getting married and it was their last chance.:laugh:

 

Saturday afternoon soccer, Saturday night Sheffield and sometimes a live band, always lots of beer, Sunday morning soccer again (mostly to sober up from the night before but you would never tell the manager that), pub straight after then home to snooze on the settee to watch match of the day. Mum put the big Sunday Roast on, finish that and off to the pub yet again.

 

Monday was always a bit of a downer though.:wink:

Ha, the good old days working for the featherbedded Nationalised industries, I was too slow to cotton on that working for small time private enterprise was not the way to go.

[Paul1Perth]

Ha, the good old days working for the featherbedded Nationalised industries, I was too slow to cotton on that working for small time private enterprise was not the way to go.

 

Let me tell you mate, there wasn't much featherbedding going on at the NCB. Severn Trent was OK though. Money was crap but they gave me a nice new transit van kitted out with tool cupboards and the main office was in Chesterfield first then Matlock. Had a stint working at Bamford filters in the summer and after the coalboard it was like being on holiday. Even working on the sewage plants was better than coking and chemical.:yes:

[Gbye grey sky]

I think part of the PR media spinning politics since Blair came into power has removed voter's responsibility to think for themselves.

I think Corbyn's stance of just speaking his mind has two aims. One is that he hopes people support him. The other is that he hopes to show people that they can regain use of their own brains and think for themselves, whether they agree with him or not.

 

With the biased media in the UK these days (from both sides), it's more important that people regain the ability to observe, analyse, and make their own minds up, rather than being told what to think by any organisation that may be biased. All he can do is be consistent and hope people come round, under intense attacks that are likely to last as long as he does.

 

I've already read loads of rubbish on Facebook from poor, stupid people about "disrespecting the dead soldiers" about this refusal to sing GSTQ. It shows how dumb mental leaps can be made from reading The Sun. Read Headline > Believe > Outrage. It's a pretty wacky supposition when the only reason he went was to show respect for the fallen pilots, but the media knows that there are enough people out there who will believe anything they want them to, so until people actually get a grip on themselves nothing will change.

 

Media bias has always been there from left and right, and it needs to be balanced to show both sides, but the rhetoric these days is de-based, puerile and cartoonish....they don't give you both sides of an argument anymore, just a headline that means "You Need To Agree With This". It's as if they think people are too stupid to make their own minds up and need to be told what to think, so they cut the argument and go straight to the headline they want to push.

Any move away from that sort of rubbish is good for both sides of politics, if we want to regain an intelligent electorate that actually cares and can think for itself.

 

Best post on this thread and indeed the best I have read for a long time. Like many I have serious reservations about Corbyn's position on certain issues but he is at least enabling a debate about topics that those who hold the real power would prefer to be suppressed.

[MARYROSE02]

ABSOLUTELY, couldn't agree more, but whilst the education system is under the control of the neo-cons people will not be educated to make an intelligent analysis.

 

Which particular "neo cons" are in control of the British education system, and how do they, if "they" exist, control the many left-wing teachers and lecturers?

[bristolman]

Which particular "neo cons" are in control of the British education system, and how do they, if "they" exist, control the many left-wing teachers and lecturers?

 

I do find myself asking the same questions. It's like when I hear that the Government controls the media, the media may be left or right leaning but that doesn't equate to Government control.

[MARYROSE02]

Best post on this thread and indeed the best I have read for a long time. Like many I have serious reservations about Corbyn's position on certain issues but he is at least enabling a debate about topics that those who hold the real power would prefer to be suppressed.

 

The Illuminati? Just because the media is, allegedly, biased (printing views that you don't agree with?) does not mean that it is telling lies and/or manipulating the truth. Give some examples of how all the newspapers, especially the 'quality' broadsheets, are full of "de-based, puerile and cartoonish rhetoric" rather than objective argument?

[MARYROSE02]

You can start with the front page of "The Guardian", not my paper of choice either, but looking at its headlines and stories, it seems 'sound' enough.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/au

[Gbye grey sky]

The Illuminati? Just because the media is, allegedly, biased (printing views that you don't agree with?) does not mean that it is telling lies and/or manipulating the truth. Give some examples of how all the newspapers, especially the 'quality' broadsheets, are full of "de-based, puerile and cartoonish rhetoric" rather than objective argument?

 

Wealthy moguls and those are on the Boards of multi-national corporations pull all the strings. Politicians are puppets who dance to their tune or they face trial by media and oblivion.

[flag of convenience]

It has nothing to do with being scared of change, it comes down to people having long memories and recall the bad old days of Labour's union led rule in the 70s. Not many want a return to those days.

 

Not many remember those days, but ok lets tale a look at them. I suppose you mean the fact that working people could afford to live in London. The fact that jobs were plentiful. The fact that private rents were possible due to rent protection. Eating out in London could be done dirt cheap.

 

Or the dreadful days of going to spend a summer in Portugal for a few hundred quid all up and remain more than three months. Spanish and Greek destinations dirt cheap to live. Or perhaps the free education where students actually thought beyond self interest and economics. Gosh there were so many hardships during those times difficult to know where to start.

 

Always recall a right wing commentator in the Evening Standard, circular 78/79 complaining about Londoners in particular, but Brit's in general being to content in their lives as to not want to go a more American path of greater materialism and working harder for more., Pretty much says it all really. People were content with far less and somewhere along the path that contentment was knocked sideways and an unsatisfiable desire for ever more came in.

Great music, folk freer to pursue individualism and London was a magnet for those young people escaping the provinces or coming from abroad to experience a great vibe that didn't cost the earth.

[flag of convenience]

Wealthy moguls and those are on the Boards of multi-national corporations pull all the strings. Politicians are puppets who dance to their tune or they face trial by media and oblivion.

 

And this is more than ever the case. In fact the concept of democracy can seriously be questioned. Those that don't comply don't tend to last.

[Gbye grey sky]

Not many remember those days, but ok lets tale a look at them. I suppose you mean the fact that working people could afford to live in London. The fact that jobs were plentiful. The fact that private rents were possible due to rent protection. Eating out in London could be done dirt cheap.

 

Or the dreadful days of going to spend a summer in Portugal for a few hundred quid all up and remain more than three months. Spanish and Greek destinations dirt cheap to live. Or perhaps the free education where students actually thought beyond self interest and economics. Gosh there were so many hardships during those times difficult to know where to start.

 

Always recall a right wing commentator in the Evening Standard, circular 78/79 complaining about Londoners in particular, but Brit's in general being to content in their lives as to not want to go a more American path of greater materialism and working harder for more., Pretty much says it all really. People were content with far less and somewhere along the path that contentment was knocked sideways and an unsatisfiable desire for ever more came in.

Great music, folk freer to pursue individualism and London was a magnet for those young people escaping the provinces or coming from abroad to experience a great vibe that didn't cost the earth.

 

I lived through the 70's. Constant strikes, power cuts, wage freezes, the 3 day week, rising unemployment, fear of nuclear war, country bankrupt and supported by the IMF. But, hey, rents were lower.

[flag of convenience]

I do find myself asking the same questions. It's like when I hear that the Government controls the media, the media may be left or right leaning but that doesn't equate to Government control.

 

No one has said the media is under state control in Britain. It would be daft to say otherwise. What matters is the operators behind the scenes that control it. Most by are from a not extensive background of diverse roles.

Take Britain for example. Only one paper can said to be left that being of course The Daily Mirror. The Guardian has become more centralist, but I can accept a slight tilt still towards the left.

Everything else is different shades of right. Nothing to do with government control. They do the work for nothing.

[bristolman]

I lived through the 70's. Constant strikes, power cuts, wage freezes, the 3 day week, rising unemployment, fear of nuclear war, country bankrupt and supported by the IMF. But, hey, rents were lower.

 

Yes my point exactly, not a great time. Labour in the mid to late 70s bought the country to its knees. Many see Corbyn as potentially doing the same again. I for one certainly wouldn't be willing to gamble with the country's future.

[bristolman]

No one has said the media is under state control in Britain. It would be daft to say otherwise. What matters is the operators behind the scenes that control it. Most by are from a not extensive background of diverse roles.

Take Britain for example. Only one paper can said to be left that being of course The Daily Mirror. The Guardian has become more centralist, but I can accept a slight tilt still towards the left.

Everything else is different shades of right. Nothing to do with government control. They do the work for nothing.

 

Actually I have read more than once on here that the Government controls the media.

[flag of convenience]

I lived through the 70's. Constant strikes, power cuts, wage freezes, the 3 day week, rising unemployment, fear of nuclear war, country bankrupt and supported by the IMF. But, hey, rents were lower.

 

What a sad life you must have lived in the 70s. Even as a teenager I was never out of work. Never had trouble get a job. In fact I had three jobs in one week once when walked out after a day on the other two. Lived in the best Borough of London, could afford it on an average wage in those days, Ate out most nights.

You are taking an entire decade in one hot. These things did not occur together. I never worked a three day work. Yes I recall the lights going out from time to time, but candles done fine. I have never been on strike in my life. Good luck to those that felt the need.

You forget IRA attacks. There was far more political awareness. Far more togetherness. Better times all around. But hey, too bad you missed all that.

[flag of convenience]

Actually I have read more than once on here that the Government controls the media.

 

Business influences the media, control if you want, by implication government? Government being more under the influence of big business and the like.

[flag of convenience]

Yes my point exactly, not a great time. Labour in the mid to late 70s bought the country to its knees. Many see Corbyn as potentially doing the same again. I for one certainly wouldn't be willing to gamble with the country's future.

 

A darn great time. Plenty of work. Cheap to eat out and booze. Cheap to live in London (coolest city in the world at the time) Not just anywhere but a good location. Everything affordable. Education was free. Corbyn is speaking up for the fading memory of those that know better times and those too young that want better times.