I'm done

[Guest]

No!Is Oz?Much of Oz is uninhabitable,take out the middle and what are you left with?I don't know anyone out of a job in the UK,know quite a few in Oz though,alot of the jobs here are casual.How do you get a mortgage of that?

 

I dont know? ask the millions on zero hour contracts in the UK...

[Harpodom]

Because 986 people are leaving UK daily, and all the eastern Europeans have now earned enough benefits money to build their houses back home, and still claim child tax credit from their respected countries!!!

Have you got a link to the Daily Mail article where you read this?

[fletchaman]

Have you got a link to the Daily Mail article where you read this?

 

Unfortunately your fight with the daily mail is of no concern of mine as it was the Telegraph :wink:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819114/Our-best-talents-are-leaving-Britain.html

[grahamffc]

Apart from the lack of work, one thing I was suprised at was how well paid seemingly unskilled work was. In the UK I earned £40k, where I last heard the average salary is about £26k. In Australia I earned $68k which I believe is bang on average. I had friends on WHV's working in call centres and restaurants earning only a couple of dollars less an hour than I do in my profession with a degree, professional qualifications, and eight years experience. Needless to say most of those guys love it there and are keen to stay.

 

I know we don't want a race to the bottom, people being exploited or others with a sense of entitlement, and it was nice to go to shops and be served by people that are seemingly quite happy. But you want some reward for if you make sacrifices by working hard to build a career.

[hilton]

I was in a similar position to original poster myself, but fortunately I had a job (although it was tough, long hours and low wages) which allowed me to continue searching for a better job. I applied for 100's of jobs and sent even more speculative e-mails, with only about 5% replying. It is very demoralising applying for jobs you are more than capable of and not even getting a reply.

[Petals]

The Op told wrote of experience here and that is what we are discussing, not whether there are people on low income in UK or Aus and I recognise how it must have felt to not be able to get a job. The op is not really interested if you have a job and are just wanting a better wage or whatever.

[fletchaman]

I feel for you OP. I Have been in New Zealand for almost 4 years, and apart from shelf stacking jobs in local supermarket (no disrespect to shelf stackers intended) I cannot get a break, after 100s and 100's of knock backs I applied to be a Recruitment Consultant (17 years experience in Warehouse and Distribution both on the floor and management roles) and during that process of yet another rejection i finally got some feedback, and was told I needed to dampen down my CV, as employers here may feel intimidated by my experience!!!!! WTF why should I have to lie on my CV, hence the reason we are now trying OZ in the hope their mentality is a bit more in the 21st century, if not then the UK can have my expertise back :rolleyes:

[GlobeTrotta]

No!Is Oz?Much of Oz is uninhabitable,take out the middle and what are you left with?I don't know anyone out of a job in the UK,know quite a few in Oz though,alot of the jobs here are casual.How do you get a mortgage of that?

 

Fact is 43% of all jobs in Oz are casual (2011) here is the link I read an article last year said 40% but damned if I can find it. The real question is how would Australia's economy looked over the past deacde without the mining sector - I would suspect an entirely different situation as many sectors are in and have been incontraction for several years.

 

Here is a link to support the 43% statement and the author is an academic at Monash so it is not some arbitrary specualtive remark.

 

http://theconversation.com/labour-in-vain-casualisation-presents-a-precarious-future-for-workers-8181

[GlobeTrotta]

I feel for you OP. I Have been in New Zealand for almost 4 years, and apart from shelf stacking jobs in local supermarket (no disrespect to shelf stackers intended) I cannot get a break, after 100s and 100's of knock backs I applied to be a Recruitment Consultant (17 years experience in Warehouse and Distribution both on the floor and management roles) and during that process of yet another rejection i finally got some feedback, and was told I needed to dampen down my CV, as employers here may feel intimidated by my experience!!!!! WTF why should I have to lie on my CV, hence the reason we are now trying OZ in the hope their mentality is a bit more in the 21st century, if not then the UK can have my expertise back :rolleyes:

 

Was chatting to a high ranking Vice Chancellor re similar situation here in Adelaide some 6 months ago, his remarks were similar, now he was from the USA and said here they dont like tall poppies and that when you come from the outside with all this experinece and overseas education, vision of how to do things differently not even better, just differently even though they have said they wanted that they actaully dont want to change the status quo - anyway it doesn't bode well for finding work. So essentially the way I read it was to dumb down the CV - to me this seems akin to not being any better than lying on my CV I am supposed to reduce the experiences I have had how is that possiblel say I didnt work there, delete successes, leave off education (another fact: apparently having a masters is intimidating and means you will command more money - which that dont want to pay - LMFAO) so that investmet was for nothing. Frankly, while the world has dramatically changed since the GFC I had never ever expected the utter frustration of being in such a narrow minded place really cant wait to leave in December. I long since gave up wasting my time sending letters applying for jobs that are so fundamentally basic only to be told that I dont have local experience - its a global world for f*** sake how hard can a call centre be when I have run multi million dollar call centres for Fortune 100 companies hello pick up a phone listen...its absurd and the UK will get me expertise gladly even when I was underemployed i was at least employed. the five experiment is soon to be over arguably the biggest disappointment is the mindset of people and clearly a system that is frought with complete stupidity at realising the value someone with extensive experience can add value. There is no lateral thinking here. Please note I am not speaking for the whole of Oz just my perpsective relative to where I have had to endure the inane stupidity of the Adelaide job market.

[starlight7]

When we first came over one of the things I fell in love with about Australia was that they really respected tradies- unlike Britain which at that time looked down on them and called them 'working class'. We were what you would call 'professionals' complete with higher degrees but really, we had had a lot of advantages which was our good luck- why should we be paid more than they were? We both worked hard and neither of us had trouble finding employment which was lucky for us. I think here there is a different mindset - a degree is great but you have to have the skills required, and above all, the sort of personality that 'fits in'.

[Jacaranda]

I dont know? ask the millions on zero hour contracts in the UK...

I did'nt say it was'nt happening in the UK,it is,but for those emigrating and thinking its easy to just get any job while they're searching for their dream jobs,for most its not easy.

[Jacaranda]

Fact is 43% of all jobs in Oz are casual (2011) here is the link I read an article last year said 40% but damned if I can find it. The real question is how would Australia's economy looked over the past deacde without the mining sector - I would suspect an entirely different situation as many sectors are in and have been incontraction for several years.

 

Here is a link to support the 43% statement and the author is an academic at Monash so it is not some arbitrary specualtive remark.

Yes I've noticed here in Adelaide anyway,alot of the jobs are casual.I have a friend who works in a factory on a casual basis,and lives alone in a housing trust (council)place.The factory shuts down over Xmas for 3 weeks,which means she has no income in that time.She struggles alot financially,so went to SS to see if she was entitiled to anything.No she was'nt because technically she was employed.I don't know how the hell people manage their lives working casually when you have rent or whatever to pay,bills ect.Holidays?Well I guess you'd have to forget about those too!

[fletchaman]

Was chatting to a high ranking Vice Chancellor re similar situation here in Adelaide some 6 months ago, his remarks were similar, now he was from the USA and said here they dont like tall poppies and that when you come from the outside with all this experinece and overseas education, vision of how to do things differently not even better, just differently even though they have said they wanted that they actaully dont want to change the status quo - anyway it doesn't bode well for finding work. So essentially the way I read it was to dumb down the CV - to me this seems akin to not being any better than lying on my CV I am supposed to reduce the experiences I have had how is that possiblel say I didnt work there, delete successes, leave off education (another fact: apparently having a masters is intimidating and means you will command more money - which that dont want to pay - LMFAO) so that investmet was for nothing. Frankly, while the world has dramatically changed since the GFC I had never ever expected the utter frustration of being in such a narrow minded place really cant wait to leave in December. I long since gave up wasting my time sending letters applying for jobs that are so fundamentally basic only to be told that I dont have local experience - its a global world for f*** sake how hard can a call centre be when I have run multi million dollar call centres for Fortune 100 companies hello pick up a phone listen...its absurd and the UK will get me expertise gladly even when I was underemployed i was at least employed. the five experiment is soon to be over arguably the biggest disappointment is the mindset of people and clearly a system that is frought with complete stupidity at realising the value someone with extensive experience can add value. There is no lateral thinking here. Please note I am not speaking for the whole of Oz just my perpsective relative to where I have had to endure the inane stupidity of the Adelaide job market.

 

I asked for feedback on one job and was told I needed to get more experience working with Kiwis!!!! WTF I had sacked 2 prior to coming here for being drunk lol

[Quinkla]

In my line of work, at least, Australian working culture and British working culture are very different despite looking superficially similar. If you are unable to spot the differences quickly and adapt, you will be in a world of pain. It's not quite as simple as the tall poppy syndrome - employers do want people who can bring about improvements and change, but they don't want anyone who will rock the boat in the process. Employees are looking constantly for reasons to be aggrieved and employers want to avoid anything that will destabilise a fragile workplace. So it's not about dumbing down CVs; it is more about letting your CV show not just what you have achieved, but how you have achieved it - hopefully with sensitivity.

 

I'm still only slowly getting to grips with it all.

[fletchaman]

In my line of work, at least, Australian working culture and British working culture are very different despite looking superficially similar. If you are unable to spot the differences quickly and adapt, you will be in a world of pain. It's not quite as simple as the tall poppy syndrome - employers do want people who can bring about improvements and change, but they don't want anyone who will rock the boat in the process. Employees are looking constantly for reasons to be aggrieved and employers want to avoid anything that will destabilise a fragile workplace. So it's not about dumbing down CVs; it is more about letting your CV show not just what you have achieved, but how you have achieved it - hopefully with sensitivity.

 

I'm still only slowly getting to grips with it all.

But that is the same as the UK, you cannot do anything change wise without the union throwing their teddy out the pram and going on work to rule and one day strikes, upsetting the apple cart for the better of the company in the bigger picture is unfortunately one of the hard qualities of a manager

[Quinkla]

But that is the same as the UK...

Believing this is a recipe for failure in the Australian workplace. Attitudes and working practices are actually very different.

[fletchaman]

Believing this is a recipe for failure in the Australian workplace. Attitudes and working practices are actually very different.

 

Is that why all us Northerners stay out of Melbourne :wink:

[Freckleface]

In my line of work, at least, Australian working culture and British working culture are very different despite looking superficially similar. If you are unable to spot the differences quickly and adapt, you will be in a world of pain. It's not quite as simple as the tall poppy syndrome - employers do want people who can bring about improvements and change, but they don't want anyone who will rock the boat in the process. Employees are looking constantly for reasons to be aggrieved and employers want to avoid anything that will destabilise a fragile workplace. So it's not about dumbing down CVs; it is more about letting your CV show not just what you have achieved, but how you have achieved it - hopefully with sensitivity.

 

I'm still only slowly getting to grips with it all.

 

 

This is is something many migrants (from the UK in particular) fail to recognise and understand.

[fletchaman]

This is is something many migrants (from the UK in particular) fail to recognise and understand.

 

Wrap them up in cotton wool, and I thought NZ was strange :wacko:

[Freckleface]

Wrap them up in cotton wool, and I thought NZ was strange :wacko:

 

Wrap who up in cotton wool?

[Quinkla]

Wrap them up in cotton wool, and I thought NZ was strange :wacko:

It's really very simple. As a migrant, if you want to succeed in an Australian workplace you have to understand it and operate within it. You don't have to like it, or approve of it. But you do have to deal with it.

[fletchaman]

Wrap who up in cotton wool?

 

The workforce so as not to upset the apple cart

[Freckleface]

The workforce so as not to upset the apple cart

 

Then no - just understand that it operates differently if you want to be employed to work in it.

[fletchaman]

Wrap who up in cotton wool?

 

Employees are looking constantly for reasons to be aggrieved and employers want to avoid anything that will destabilise a fragile workplace.

 

So what does this statement mean then?

 

I believe any operation as long as you are informative of the changes and the reasons ( bigger picture) the changes are being made do not destabilise a workplace, putting things into practice without consultation, in any workplace in any country is a recipe for disaster. Believe me i have met many managers who think this is the right way to treat people (bully boy tactics)

[Celt Down Under]

It's really very simple. As a migrant, if you want to succeed in an Australian workplace you have to understand it and operate within it. You don't have to like it, or approve of it. But you do have to deal with it.

 

Spot on Quinkla. I can recall exactly the same in the UK when the company I was working for, (RTZ), brought in American managers to make changes. They soon learnt that it was not non unionised Americans they were dealing with.

The workplace out here has changed in the 33 years that I have been here, and it will continue to evolve, but it will not happen overnight, with the people coming in and telling people how things should be done, and wanting it to happen there and then.