Pommy Mark Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hi guys after living in Asia for about 5 years previous to my short stint here, I come across loads of people who use migration agents to sort their visa, give them advice etc ( especially non native speakers) as as vie always done my own visa paperwork etc etc I'd just like to know the advantage of a migration agent. I'm not suggesting there isn't one but I was just wondering what it might be besides giving informed advice. Is it not possible, if I was to choose, to do all my own paperwork or do people from whatever country have to use one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 There's no mandatory requirement to use one. The regulations can be complex and depending on whether you have any particular issues (medical, criminal history, etc.) there can be definite advantages for people. It's a personal choice whether to do it on your own or hire an agent, and you'll get lots of opinions in favour of both options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hi guys after living in Asia for about 5 years previous to my short stint here, I come across loads of people who use migration agents to sort their visa, give them advice etc ( especially non native speakers) as as vie always done my own visa paperwork etc etc I'd just like to know the advantage of a migration agent. I'm not suggesting there isn't one but I was just wondering what it might be besides giving informed advice. Is it not possible, if I was to choose, to do all my own paperwork or do people from whatever country have to use one? This is a much debated topic. If you're an English speaker, you're the kind of person who is good at paperwork, and have a straightforward case, then there's nothing to stop you from going it alone. The process isn't difficult, it's just complicated, so if you have patience it's certainly do-able. However I can see non-native speakers would need help as it's vital to answer questions correctly, so you want to be sure you've understood the questions! I can also see how a migration agent would be valuable if you're not sure which visa to go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie129 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Personally I think that it's good thing to hire an agent because there are so many rules and regulations which are constantly changing. I have seen many people who have not used one and have got their visas granted but on the other hand I have seen a good few people who have done it themselves having their visa refused. A migration agent will be able to advise you on possible visa options, the process etc. I certainty wouldn't say the process is easy by any means. All it takes is one slip up to have your visa refused. The way I look at it, would you go to court without having a lawyer to represent your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommy Mark Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Interesting I asked a couple of non native english speaking friends today and funnily enough they reiterated their main reasons for using a migration agent were the fear of making a mistake on the paperwork and secondly that the advisors are normally more well informed about loopholes lol. They mentioned something about project manager positions last year, sounds like there are grey areas in this Ozzie visa thing then, just always came across as so strict and under control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 We used an agent essentially because we had more money than time and thought it would end up with us arguing as you can be certain if there are two ways to interpret something me and Lord Rainicorn would have a different opinion It was well worth it, if we hadn't I would have applied as an IT professional and would have had to go through the fairly arduous ACS skills assessment, the migration agent spotted that I have been a Residential Social Worker almost twenty years previous and I was able to apply as a 'Social Care Professional NEC' - my skills assessment was nothing more than sending off my degree certificate. I actually didn't trust he was correct but sure enough we got the visa! Also I had some minor medical complications and he had a panel of professionals at hand who could have provided specialist reports if needs be, he also knew the best panel Dr. to use and in the event everything went through smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Interesting I asked a couple of non native english speaking friends today and funnily enough they reiterated their main reasons for using a migration agent were the fear of making a mistake on the paperwork and secondly that the advisors are normally more well informed about loopholes lol. They mentioned something about project manager positions last year, sounds like there are grey areas in this Ozzie visa thing then, just always came across as so strict and under control "Getting through the loopholes" is a common reason that's given by people who use migration agents - which is just a euphemism for "getting around the law". I suspect that in countries where corruption is common (e.g. Malaysia, anywhere in Africa), people would assume a migration agent is worthwhile because he knows who to bribe! Ask any migration agent and they'd be very indignant at the suggestion they can get people in who don't qualify - the rules are the rules. However there are cases like Lady Rainicorn's where an agent can spot an opportunity or catch a potential problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hi guys after living in Asia for about 5 years previous to my short stint here, I come across loads of people who use migration agents to sort their visa, give them advice etc ( especially non native speakers) as as vie always done my own visa paperwork etc etc I'd just like to know the advantage of a migration agent. I'm not suggesting there isn't one but I was just wondering what it might be besides giving informed advice. Is it not possible, if I was to choose, to do all my own paperwork or do people from whatever country have to use one? This topic has been raised and debated at length with strong view on both sides. From someone who has been in the profession for 10 years, I can honestly say that there is no wrong or right answer and will depend on individual circumstances. I do not believe however, that it is as simple as many state, that if your application seems straight forward, it is easy. If you are not involved in Immigration, how are you supposed to know what is “straight forward” and what is not? As an example, the specific occupation you have mentioned of Program Manager, has more requirements than many other occupations, if applying for a subclass 457 visa. I have seen very simple mistakes such as ticking the incorrect box lead to refusals and the loss of thousands of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ask any migration agent and they'd be very indignant at the suggestion they can get people in who don't qualify - Even if they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hi guys after living in Asia for about 5 years previous to my short stint here, I come across loads of people who use migration agents to sort their visa, give them advice etc ( especially non native speakers) as as vie always done my own visa paperwork etc etc I'd just like to know the advantage of a migration agent. I'm not suggesting there isn't one but I was just wondering what it might be besides giving informed advice. Is it not possible, if I was to choose, to do all my own paperwork or do people from whatever country have to use one? Not only possible but not even difficult. I recall when migration agents cane into being. Not that long ago. Your choice but unless a very border line case or not good at form filling why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This is a much debated topic. If you're an English speaker, you're the kind of person who is good at paperwork, and have a straightforward case, then there's nothing to stop you from going it alone. The process isn't difficult, it's just complicated, so if you have patience it's certainly do-able. However I can see non-native speakers would need help as it's vital to answer questions correctly, so you want to be sure you've understood the questions! I can also see how a migration agent would be valuable if you're not sure which visa to go for. Prior to the business of migration agent becoming an apparent necessity for some, we all done it on our own. Naturally those within the trade will likely inflate or over emphasise the importance of engaging them. Certainly clear that some will need help depending on capability. The fear of losing money but doing something wrong on the form entices many to act on what they consider the" safe side". Forgetting that migrant agents make mistakes as well. I knew a prime example of that were loop holes where exploited with the opposite desired effect. Easy enough to do oneself, but if using an agent make sure they are reputable. Cheaper certainly does not mean better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I should know better than to comment on such posts. It seems that Agents' comments are only appreciated by some when we are giving free advice. Anyway… Not only possible but not even difficult. How can you so emphatically state such a thing when you know almost nothing of the specific circumstances of the person making the enquiry? I recall when migration agents cane into being. Not that long ago. This is only true if you consider decades as “not that long ago”. Prior to the business of migration agent becoming an apparent necessity for some, we all done it on our own. And many still do so quite successfully. Comparing a situation from many years ago however, is not reasonable. Many years ago the form 80 was only a few pages long, not it is 18. The same can be said for many of the Regulations, Act and Policy which have grown considerably in length and complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Like with any type of Agent, if you think they can provide a service that you can't do yourself or don't want to do then use their services. Personally I trust myself to do most stuff to a higher standard so would be inclined to do so myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Since the DIBP and other external processes vastly increased their fees this seems to be cropping up more and more. The cost of migration is huge and I guess people are looking at agents as a non-mandatory expense. As with most things in life you can do it yourself if you're prepared to put in the research and work. If my window was smashed I could learn how to replace it myself or hire a glazier, if I needed a new basin I could learn do it myself or hire a plumber....Using an agent is no different. I don't understand the people on this forum who show so much enthusiasm to tell people how easy it is and that they should go it alone. The vast majority of the time they have no indication of the applicants ability, their circumstance, or their application. Using the analogy above it's like saying "I fixed my own leaking tap so you should be able to fit that combi boiler with no problems. Go it alone! Don't waste your money!" Have a read through the posts over the last few days. You will find people who have lost thousands on rejected applications, people facing rejection and don't know what to do, people screaming for help and saying they can't sleep over what they believe to be important issues and question after question after question. I see lots of accurate and helpful responses, I also see lots of inaccurate answers that if followed will cause an issue. How do people decide which is which?......Yet despite all the non-stop questions, frustration, rejections, loss of time and money, people still say "I did it alone so you can too, don't waste your money". Then later the same person will ask a question and people say "I don't know, but hopefully an agent will come along and answer it for you". I find it bewildering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Let's discuss with the price of the migration Agents. Some of them are charging $5000. There should be a fixed price on the basis of type of Visa. Like immi visa fees. They don't do that. If the price is a genuine one then we can use them. But some of them are there to generate money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 All of them are there to generate money, it's a profession. There's a demand for an advisory service and there's people who make a living from providing that service. If that's wrong then so is every other service industry in the world. Likewise the demand and market will determine the cost. $5,000 is very steep for anything but the most complex of applications, so shop around for a cheaper agent in that case! Again like any other service. You can't fix a price in a service market, not sure about Australia but pretty sure it's illegal in the UK at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baguette Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 We used a MA because my husband's firm paid for it but had we had to pay for our own, we would have done it without the MA. It's not complicated at all but it is time consuming. Some questions from form 80 might appear as nonsensical, but if you use this forum, you should be able to answer them. The use of a MA makes sense when your case is complicated or you do not fill the requirements (they would know of some loopholes). It used to be faster to use an MA before as applications lodged through an MA that filled some conditions were supposedly placed in a fast tracked queue, but this advantage has been removed couple of months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I did not use an agent. At one point, my application got wobbly and I considered using an agent but it was time critical and this was in January when everyone in Australia is on holiday. So I soldiered on alone and succeeded. I should say that my application was quite straightforward - Prospective Marriage in a genuine, opposite sex and similar age relationship. I am well educated, have English as a first language and work in an organisation that makes form-filling second nature. I would be alarmed at the costs that agents would charge for such a straightforward application as the process is little more than transcribing the details given by the client into the correct boxes on the form. There is some element of helping to interpret what is required - e.g. what is a good personal statement; what is a good corroborating statement - but I don't think DIBP is terribly rigid about stuff like this. If, though, I were less confident with forms; did not have English as a first language; did not know which visa to apply for; had some complications; etc. then could see it would be worth paying an agent for their expertise. But I suppose my problem would be that agents tend to want an all or nothing approach; they are reluctant to charge for simply giving advice or answering specific questions - they want to bulk up the bill by also filling in the forms and acting as postbox. Presumably, though, if they only gave advice and answered questions it would be difficult to make the job into a full time, full income thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Et Voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 my problem would be that agents tend to want an all or nothing approach Really? [h=2]What We Do[/h] Visa applications – including: Partner, Family, Skilled, Business, Student, Visitor, Investor, Child, Resident Return Free Preliminary Assessments and Detailed Assessments of Visa prospects Visa Strategy Maps for self-represented applicants Citizenship Applications Review Applications Requests for waivers of ‘no further stay’ conditions Submissions on character and medical issues Requests for ministerial intervention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't know if it's just me but I have noticed an increase in PIO experts recently, who in some case haven't been members for long. I can't understand how some can possibly qualify the advice they purport to give, with well it was easy for me so you can do it yourself, when not in full knowledge of the individual's case. we have had an agent who basically nearly lost our son his place here. on the other side we then used an agent who was fine. we have had free addvice from an agent who posts here that was invaluable, so I'm not biased, but I do know that we should all be appreciative of the MA's who post on PIO. Whether you decide to go it alone for your visa or use an agent, it's a personal choice and posters can give their thoughts but should never tell another poster what they should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommy Mark Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Tbh I don't think I'll be using one as my work seem to be doing/ finding out everything. Having said that ( see my most recent post) I might have to advise them a bit as it all seems a bit too simple so in this case maybe an advisor would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Tbh I don't think I'll be using one as my work seem to be doing/ finding out everything. Having said that ( see my most recent post) I might have to advise them a bit as it all seems a bit too simple so in this case maybe an advisor would be good Ethan, in a situation where there's employer sponsorship, it's slightly different because there's two (or sometimes three) separate applications being lodged by 2 different parties. Sometimes you may not require help but the employer does, or vice versa. The employer should not be relying on you to give them advice and unless you're actually working for them in HR I doubt you have knowledge of their training expenditure, plans & policy, payroll, other employee's salaries, their entity structure, organisation structure or anything else that may be required for their side of the process. That's without even getting into obligations or compliance issues, which failure to comply with can have severe financial penalties. They're responsible for that, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommy Mark Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Very true and this is what they are doing but if you see my other post you'll see the pickle I'm in lol thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Mate it's not a pickle, it's just something that needs to be planned for. The occupation, position and 457 vs ENS strategy depends on a number of factors including: your skills/experience, your aims, the company's aims, your eligibility for either of the visa classes, the planned salary, the company's current employees, the genuine need for a particular position, the company's training policies.....I could go on and on. The thing is no matter what people will tell you on here, the vast majority haven't got a clue about these factors and they certainly don't have a clue about you or your company's individual circumstances, so how they can possibly advise you one way or another is baffling. Not even an agent can accurately advise you without a proper consultation between the agent, yourself and the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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