Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Beware ! The 457 visa is a big black mark on your CV.....yes I know 457s 'can' work just like everyone else, and that you 'can' switch employers while on a 457, but be warned - employers ask for your nationality and residency status on their application forms, and if you're a 457 you automatically go to the bottom of the list. They MUST demonstrate that they are unable to find your skill set in a suitable Australian in order to hire you. It also means that if your company loses contracts etc or sees a downturn - guess who's nearest the door ? We came here on a 457 because my ex-employer said they were expecting rapid expansion in the market. it didn't happen. My wife paid $20k for a course of study - which took her 9 months of hard yakka - to qualify herself for an Australian public sector job, then Queensland sacked 5000 people, flooding the market with Australians. On a 457, she cannot compete. Now we find ourselves on the countdown to departure. My wife's qualification, naturally, does not qualify her to work in the UK.....without another $$$$$ course of study ker-ching thanks very much. If you're in a stable situation and happy with your work, and you're offered a position in Oz on a 457.....beware. Insist on a company-sponsored PR visa, and if refused ask them why - does it smell like a good reason, or were they trying to bring you over for the short term ? If they will only offer a 457, demand that they commit in writing to sponsoring you for PR after 2 years if you are still with them - no quibble. If they refuse, it's a stitch-up. If it doesn't work out, you're at the back of the jobs queue, and on a 90-day clock, at the end of which it's "thanks for all your work now **** off"........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Sorry its not worked out for you but what your saying is not news. That is what the 457 is for, to fill a gap in the job market temporarily, it does not mean you have emigrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Quite a few 457 visa holders find themselves on a plane back home, while for others (myself included) it's a terrific way to get into the country. My company has sponsored quite a few employees on 457 visas, many of which were internal transfers from other countries. Only very recently have we begun agreeing to sponsor for PR when they're eligible, but when I came over the contract was very clear that getting PR was my own responsibility. It's definitely a chance you take when you accept the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I agree with AJ it's hardly groundbreaking news, this is exactly what the 457 is for simply a visa for disposable foreign staff. The old saying ...Easy come easy go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Hey AJ, that's not how it was sold to me, and it was only after I got here that I realised how restrictive the 457 really is ! I guess I was just far too trusting.... What I really want to get across (to save people from ending up in the same situation) is that once you try to look for work in Australia on a 457....you're severely handicapped by the visa itself. Yes you are allowed to work as a spouse on a 457, and allowed to change employers as a primary 457 applicant - but you are still at the bottom of the list for job applications. I'm not sure that many 457 workers have quite grasped this.... Had my employer said "we're offering you a temporary visa that ties you to us and we only need you for a limited time"....the negotiation would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 My wife certainly wasn't asked "are you on a 457 ? Please be aware your employment prospects are very limited" when they accepted her $20k for her course....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I can appreciate your frustration, but don't assume because it didn't work out for you it isn't a good option for others. - It's not a black mark on a CV - You don't automatically go to the bottom of the list - They don't always have to demonstrate they can't find an Australian for the position - You won't always be first out of the door in a downturn How is it a stitch up if they refuse to commit to PR sponsorship? For an ENS application there must be an offer of employment that's open and on-going for at least 2 years, so you believe it's a stitch up if an employer (before even getting to know you as a worker) doesn't specifically make a commitment for at least another 2 years of employment should you reach 2 years with them? Who is going to do that? It's hard enough for a foreign employee to get an offer of employment without them turning around and demanding extra commitments. On the other side many companies who employ 457 visa holders complain that they just stay with them until they qualify for PR and then leave. If people want a more secure visa status they can look at skilled migration or ENS - Direct Entry. You know what people say when given those options? "I can't afford it, so what about a 457?...Doesn't the company pay for that?"........It goes both ways. The 457 visa has plenty of flaws but it benefits a huge amount of migrants and Australian businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I can appreciate your frustration, but don't assume because it didn't work out for you it isn't a good option for others. - It's not a black mark on a CV Of course it is. It means you go behind every Australian or PR candidate with comparable skills. How is that not a black mark ? - You don't automatically go to the bottom of the list see the above - They don't always have to demonstrate they can't find an Australian for the position That's not what the people at immigration said. It's also not what it says here : http://www.visassimply.com/457-temporary-business-visa "An Australian employer must show that there is lack of skills in Australian citizen or permanent resident to do the skilled job before nominating a foreign skilled worker." - You won't always be first out of the door in a downturn Yep, you will. Assuming your Aussie / PR co-workers are all of a similar skill level (or even nowhere close, but someone's mate) , you're closest to the door. How is it a stitch up if they refuse to commit to PR sponsorship? Because the way companies play it is that it's a temporary 4-year contract due to the terms of the visa, but in fact it's permanent employment as far as they're concerned. The test for that is this - demand a written commitment to PR sponsorship. if they refuse, it's obviously a ploy to bring you over temporarily, to plug a gap. For an ENS application there must be an offer of employment that's open and on-going for at least 2 years, so you believe it's a stitch up if an employer (before even getting to know you as a worker) doesn't specifically make a commitment for at least another 2 years of employment should you reach 2 years with them? Who is going to do that? It's hard enough for a foreign employee to get an offer of employment without them turning around and demanding extra commitments. The 457 is 4 years. If an employee reaches 2 years, sponsoring them for PR does not tie the employer to them for another 2, it merely requires them to demonstrate that the employee is likely to be needed for another 2 years. Both employer and employee can still terminate the contract for any of the usual reasons. On the other side many companies who employ 457 visa holders complain that they just stay with them until they qualify for PR and then leave. And ? They're employees, not indentured servants. Be competitive and employees will stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm not going to argue with you, the situation you're in is obviously upsetting but I see hundreds of 457/ENS applications every year and the way you've described it is a very blinkered opinion. - I see many Australians shown the door while 457 visa holders are retained. If you're going to the bottom of a list, or first out of the door that's the employer's decision - It's not an automatic result of the visa. - They DON'T always have to demonstrate they can't find an Australian - Read up on Labour Market Testing and don't believe everything you're told. - The way companies play it? Based on what...Your one specific example? I know some people that have happily been on 457 visas for years, I know some companies that bend over backwards trying to help their 457 visa holders obtain PR, and yes I know some that seem to have a revolving door employment policy. The 457 IS a temporary visa, it's meant to be used to meet temporary skill shortages, if employees aren't happy going onto a temporary visa then just apply for PR directly! Why should an employer make all kinds of commitments because you don't meet the criteria for a different PR visa? - ENS does not specifically tie the employer/employee together for two years, but there does have to be an offer of employment that is on-going for at least 2 years. - So in reverse, be a great employee and the employer will want you to stay! My point was you seem to have an issue with employer's 'using' 457 visa holders, but 457 visa holders are also guilty of using employers to get whatever they want too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The 457 is a temporary visa, nothing more, nothing less. I am very sorry for your situation, but it is not the fault of the 457 that this has happened. We came to Australia on a 457 but knew and accepted that it was temporary. What we did subsequent to that in terms of obtaining a PR visa, was totally separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ235 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Hi, I thought it may be beneficial to share my experience of the 457 visa, which is a very positive one. I fully appreciate that everyone has an individual experience and while it may not work out for some people, it is very successful for others. I would also like to point out that the 457 is up to 4 years and the employer does not have to offer the full 4 years. My husband and I moved to Australia in November 2012 and our first 457 visa was for 12 months. We took the risk and when I wanted to change employers I emailed some employers asking if they offered sponsorship and no one was negative. In fact, I changed employers and they have sponsored me for 4 years on a 457 visa. For some people they don't want PR and they are happy to be on a 457 visa. We have had a great experience in Australia and may go for PR in the future but for the time being we are happy on the 457. With regards to a dependent finding employment my husband had no trouble at all. The only difference is that he cannot be offered a permanent contract due to the visa, however he has a contract for the duration of the visa and when the visa was extended he just provided a copy of the new visa to his employer. In addition, we have had no problems obtaining credit cards and car finance. My husband required an operation and this was all covered on medicare. I can honestly say that the 457 visa has not felt like a barrier at all and we feel very privileged to have been given the opportunity to live and work in Australia for as long as we have. If we want PR then I think Australia and its employers have the right to be picky - the 457 is very clear in the guidelines that it is a temporary visa. I am sorry that you have not had a great experience and I wish you luck in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I just want to spread the news because I certainly wasn't aware of the disadvantage a 457 causes to job applicants....and I bet there are plenty of people who come over on a 457 imagining that the spouse can go ahead and work just like any Australian, but the situation is not so. Beware ! By moving here on a 457 you are quite possibly giving up a secure, permanent position for a temporary slot, and when your company decides it can find a cheap young Aussie to fill your shoes, you're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 - My point was you seem to have an issue with employer's 'using' 457 visa holders, but 457 visa holders are also guilty of using employers to get whatever they want too. That's what I wanted to make people aware of - be careful, employers are out to play you, and the 457 is NOT a permanent move. It's thin ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm not sure being on a 457 is as much of an impediment than you think. We employ 457's as long as there's not just a short time left on their visa. Maybe you imagined that the 457 was something that it wasn't. The information was out there before you came. Did you think it was a shortcut to PR? Employers aren't out to play 457s. It often costs them more to bring them over in the first place. I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. All I can say is "Beware! When you go back there will be other pitfalls that you wish someone had pointed out. Try and discover them now before it's too late, rather than ranting about things you can't change". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blewyn Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 It was very much sold to me as a permanent job that would move to PR as soon as possible. There were no written guarantees of course, but I never expected to be in my current situation. The main warning I want to make is with regards to finding a new job, either for the primary applicant or the spouse. You're not on a level playing field with the locals !! My wife's 457 visa pretty much rules her out for all government employers (her main market). That's according to them, not according to some visa agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's what I wanted to make people aware of - be careful, employers are out to play you, and the 457 is NOT a permanent move. It's thin ice. The 457 has never been offered at a permanent move, you can't even get extra baggage allowance because it's not a permanent visa but a temporary one. The employer has never had any obligation to sponsor for PR. I do think that research is very important, and there are difficulties for this visa as I do know that some jobs in health are advertised with it stating that preference will be given to Australian Citizens and PR holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't know a lot about the visas they change so often, however, I could have told you that most government jobs do require a citizen or someone with PR, other employers don't though. Maybe you are looking for the wrong jobs. Personally I wouldn't ever move here on a 457 but as we have seen on this thread for some it works very well. Good luck for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluster13 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's sad that this hasn't worked out for you but I feel this is a combination of poor research and not a great employer. As has been said. The 457 is only a temp visa and the employer has no responsibility or requirement to offer perm at the end. Also business are fluid and things change and any job can end. In my experience ( we came out on a 457 but fully aware of the limitations ) we have found oz employers honest and appreciative of dedicated and skilled staff. When we came out on a 3 year offer and got perm after 12 months. I know others who have managed perm off the back of a 457 too. It is a big risk doing it this way. If you want a guarantee of perm you need to get this before you head out. It can be a tough Road. Keep the faith and keep trying. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I too don't believe the 457 is at fault here. They do what they say on the can!! If you come on a 457 and want to stay for sure, then you get your pr application in ASAP. i agree it can be difficult for the spouses of the main visa holder to secure work, been there and got the t shirt, but again a bit of research would have shown that. Did your wife look at the adverts of the government jobs before coming here? i left working for the NHS to come here. I knew that I wasnt going to get a similar job in health while on a 457, but also in this ageist society my age is against me too. But it doesn't stop you looking for and getting something else. While on a 457 I got work, including a 6 month contract working for the government, also a full contract job, just because they Didnt ask me anything about what visa I was on. Hated it so left. I took on a crappy 2 week assignment over Xmas the first year I was here, it ended up lasting 8 months. I still think you can make this work, but you need to change your mindset. You've got 90 days, that's 3 months to find a new sponsor. Australia is a big place, if you commit to it 100% then you may be in with a shout with getting a new sponsor. Your wife may have to think about changing direction, getting money in, go for jobs outside her remit. Or it's just a thought, but does her experience and new Aussie quals qualify her for getting pr under her occupation? if you want to stay, put what's happened behind you and get out there looking, applying, talking to a good agent. all the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It is really only relatively recently that someone on a 457 COULD change employers and up until very recently you had to leave after 28 days so the situation has improved a lot for 457 visa holders. Anyone offered a 457 visa really has to accept that they are tied to this job and if it ends for whatever reason then the chances are you will be heading home. There is no direct route from 457 to PR - yes some employers may offer sponsorship for a permanent visa later down the line but they are under no obligation to do so & can change their mind. We did go on a 457 but we had an independent route to PR and our visa application was already done, the 457 just got us there quicker with re-location expenses paid. Obviously this is an awful situation for the OP and given they didn't fully comprehend the risks it probably is a worthwhile warning to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic1171 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's what I wanted to make people aware of - be careful, employers are out to play you, and the 457 is NOT a permanent move. It's thin ice. Thats why when i began the journey 3 year ago i decided to go straight for PR, nothing new with the 457. Its a 4 year work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 There are many many posts about the problems with the visa and its like everything, we only get what we pay for, in this case what we wait for. Quick it maybe, a big problem it can be and if I had children and a good job I would be doing the long wait way or staying where I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The 457 has never been offered at a permanent move, you can't even get extra baggage allowance because it's not a permanent visa but a temporary one. The employer has never had any obligation to sponsor for PR. I do think that research is very important, and there are difficulties for this visa as I do know that some jobs in health are advertised with it stating that preference will be given to Australian Citizens and PR holders. I just wanted to say, for the benefit of keeping info accurate for others reading, that you can get extra baggage allowance on a 457, you just have to show proof of a one way ticket. Although PR now, we came on a 457 and were granted a migrant allowance of 100kg between two of us with Emirates on an economy ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I just wanted to say, for the benefit of keeping info accurate for others reading, that you can get extra baggage allowance on a 457, you just have to show proof of a one way ticket. Although PR now, we came on a 457 and were granted a migrant allowance of 100kg between two of us with Emirates on an economy ticket. That's great news about Emirates - I should have quantified it and said Singapore airlines - you have to have an un-validated PR visa (unless that's changed recently.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's great news about Emirates - I should have quantified it and said Singapore airlines - you have to have an un-validated PR visa (unless that's changed recently.). This is the thing with the whole visa/migration process though isn't it? We can all give our own personal experiences but everything moves and changes and unless an applicant is prepared to spend lliterally days, weeks ,researching or pay a good migration agent then they may well end up surprised. Research research and more research then there should be no shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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