going through court to try and prove moving to aus is better for our child

[Guest]

OP, I will drop you a PM with a few links etc in later. Nudge me if I forget as have a busy day today and tomorrow.

[janlo]

Hi again,

Wish I had some advise for you, I feel your frustration, my daughter from my first marriage had a father very similar, the day I left him, my life really started! Thankfully she is now 23, and planning to follow us when she can!

But we totally agree with your sentiment that Oz is a better place to raise children, with more opportunities! and that's why we want to take our 13 and 11 year old!

I think a lot of people with children on this forum agree with you! Don't know how much that'll help in court though!

Good luck!

/QUOTE

 

It won't help at all ! The courts will need to know WHY there is more opportunities ! Playing out in the sunshine won't do it. The supportive family over in oz probably the best way to go.

[geordiegirl68]

Hi Janlo,

I wasn't trying to give 'evidence' for court! Was just showing some empathy for someone struggling with her situation!

Poor girl seems to be getting a lot of stick. I was only sharing our reasons for moving there!

Best wishes.

[geordiegirl68]

Ironically, if you read my post correctly, you'll see I totally agree with you, that thinking Oz is simply a nicer place to grow up 'isn't' enough!

[VERYSTORMY]

I think you need professional legal advice. This isn't a easy legal thing to go through and simply saying to a court that you believe your child will have better options in Oz will not cut it with a judge. You will need to prove that. It sounds like the best way will be the argument you have extended family in Oz. But this is in itself a legal minefield as the child's closest relative besides you, is the father.

If you contact the law society they will advise on specialist family lawyers in your area. If funds are tight, then see if any of the universities in your area have a law department as many run free legal clinics manned by students but under the supervision of experienced lawyers.

[janlo]

Ironically, if you read my post correctly, you'll see I totally agree with you, that thinking Oz is simply a nicer place to grow up 'isn't' enough!

 

Probably is a nicer place.....in fact the weather Deffo is nicer ). I always struggle with the 'more opportunities' issue I always hear as don't know what people mean by that. I guess playing out in the sunshine is all i presume they mean ? The schools, job opportunities and ability to buy your home when you're older are better in the Uk. All my childrens cousins have managed to get on the housing ladder back there and it does concern me

[geordiegirl68]

Hi again,

It's all very subjective. I work in an area with huge poverty, and where people live, and have for a couple if generations, with an expectation of entitlement! No need to work.

I understand our govt is now trying to address this, but stable door and horse come to mind! And with the imminent arrival of more Europeans in January, I see GB as a country stretched to the limits!

The fact that Oz makes us work so hard to enter their country is, for me, a huge reason to go there! If the UK imposed such restrictions, maybe I wouldn't want to leave!

Rant over!

[janlo]

Hi again,

It's all very subjective. I work in an area with huge poverty, and where people live, and have for a couple if generations, with an expectation of entitlement! No need to work.

I understand our govt is now trying to address this, but stable door and horse come to mind! And with the imminent arrival of more Europeans in January, I see GB as a country stretched to the limits!

The fact that Oz makes us work so hard to enter their country is, for me, a huge reason to go there! If the UK imposed such restrictions, maybe I wouldn't want to leave!

Rant over!

 

 

Fair point.

[Guest Helchops]

Realistically, we don't know enough details - and honestly, I don't think this is the proper place to ask. Simply for privacy reasons, I'm not sure it is a positive thing (if your ex was determined to stop the move) using these forum posts, potentially against you in soliciting the public for their opinions on how you can leave the country (legally of course).

 

Anyway, I would think that the courts would fundamentally be interested in your method of supporting the child - for example, there are much less Centrelink Benefits (only Family Allowances) for newly arrived migrants. Would you have any other family in Australia? If not, how can you justify (not subjectively by the way - so opinion can't be used) that your child would be better in a land where they know nobody versus a land where they have family (even if they don't bother).

 

You see, the court isn't interested in personal bias toward an ex and his family you clearly don't think much of - you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your child would certainly have a better life.

 

Now, if you had family here, a house, super, access to Centrelink, a pot of money and resources to help your ex get over here - or return your child for annual visits - I think you would have a shot. Otherwise, it will be difficult. Difficult for a reason.

[arrumac]

I'm not aware of UK courts having any jurisdiction in Australia. So if you broke it, there's likely very little they or he could do. I was just mentioning it as something to think about, in case the father posed the same question.

 

 

 

I don't know myself. Common sense would likely suggest that you wouldn't need to pay for everything. But at the same time, it's quite different the father paying to travel the length of the UK (a couple of hundred pounds) for example, compared to travelling to the other side of the World (a couple of thousand pounds).

 

Good luck with your court case. Hopefully someone else might be able to offer you some advice.

 

 

The UK court/father can have the order registered with the Aussie courts. I nearly went down this route when my ex-wife took my eldest two to SA. I decided to follow (albeit to Melbourne) hence no need.

[Quoll]

Sadly I don't think that is true.

There are many instances of mothers applying to courts to take their kids to Australia (and away from their Dad).

 

Usually the mother gets her way.

You're probably right, certainly with the UK judiciary anyway. Aussie courts just won't let kids leave even if one parent is an abusive drop kick!

[VERYSTORMY]

Then you may be very sadly surprised. Oz also has a a section of society that do are happy to live on benefits. In my experience about the same as the UK. During the middle of the mining boom when in mining towns any 18 year old could simply rock up mat the gate and ask for a job and be taken in on $100k, a lot of them towns still had a youth unemployment over 10%.

 

Oz offer lots of things. But sadly, that is not one you will escape.

 

Hi again,

It's all very subjective. I work in an area with huge poverty, and where people live, and have for a couple if generations, with an expectation of entitlement! No need to work.

I understand our govt is now trying to address this, but stable door and horse come to mind! And with the imminent arrival of more Europeans in January, I see GB as a country stretched to the limits!

The fact that Oz makes us work so hard to enter their country is, for me, a huge reason to go there! If the UK imposed such restrictions, maybe I wouldn't want to leave!

Rant over!

[sarahp77]

If you are in council housing, could you not get a transfer to another area? Just a thought if your only reasoning is for a better life for your child?? I personally do not see oz as providing a better life/ opportunities anymore..but that's another thread..maybe ten years ago I would have agreed.

have you looked on other threads to see the advise that has been provided previously for people in the same situation as you?

 

I have looked on some previous threads and trying to get up to date responses all from many years ago and I am unsure if anything has changed.

 

I am on the waiting list to be transferred and they have said up to 8 years wait !!!

[Jacaranda]

I don't know your personal living details,but if you're in social housing you can register with Homeswappers and move anywhere yourself within England.(I know you're probably set on emigrating but just incase you wanted other options.Good luck with everything.

[sarahp77]

Realistically, we don't know enough details - and honestly, I don't think this is the proper place to ask. Simply for privacy reasons, I'm not sure it is a positive thing (if your ex was determined to stop the move) using these forum posts, potentially against you in soliciting the public for their opinions on how you can leave the country (legally of course).

 

Anyway, I would think that the courts would fundamentally be interested in your method of supporting the child - for example, there are much less Centrelink Benefits (only Family Allowances) for newly arrived migrants. Would you have any other family in Australia? If not, how can you justify (not subjectively by the way - so opinion can't be used) that your child would be better in a land where they know nobody versus a land where they have family (even if they don't bother).

 

You see, the court isn't interested in personal bias toward an ex and his family you clearly don't think much of - you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your child would certainly have a better life.

 

Now, if you had family here, a house, super, access to Centrelink, a pot of money and resources to help your ex get over here - or return your child for annual visits - I think you would have a shot. Otherwise, it will be difficult. Difficult for a reason.

 

I have my immediate family over there being mother, father and 2 brothers. in the uk I have no family in England all in Ireland. so I am completely isolated from anyone. unfortunately 2 friends neither of which have children (so am completely alone here) I would rather my child have family who want to see her than be raised wanting to know her family (both sides) however I also want her to feel wanted by her family and I hate to say the uk family (fathers side) do not really care about her.

I have got a budget set out that I can arrange my ex to come to Australia once a year and this is a very reasonable offer ( so I believe) he has to pay for nothing I pay for flights accommodation and even food and activites while here!!! if he refuses to travel to aus annually then I have also budgeted that I can come back to uk every year or 2 keeping in mind I have to pay for 2 flights, accommodation, food, activities and travel considerably more money than him coming to Australia. I believe I am being extremely fair considering he has not got to do anything at all. also Skype, facebook, emails and telephone will be accessible whenever either ex or child wishes to contact each other.

please correct me if that is wrong??

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I have my immediate family over there being mother, father and 2 brothers. in the uk I have no family in England all in Ireland. so I am completely isolated from anyone. unfortunately 2 friends neither of which have children (so am completely alone here) I would rather my child have family who want to see her than be raised wanting to know her family (both sides) however I also want her to feel wanted by her family and I hate to say the uk family (fathers side) do not really care about her.

I have got a budget set out that I can arrange my ex to come to Australia once a year and this is a very reasonable offer ( so I believe) he has to pay for nothing I pay for flights accommodation and even food and activites while here!!! if he refuses to travel to aus annually then I have also budgeted that I can come back to uk every year or 2 keeping in mind I have to pay for 2 flights, accommodation, food, activities and travel considerably more money than him coming to Australia. I believe I am being extremely fair considering he has not got to do anything at all. also Skype, facebook, emails and telephone will be accessible whenever either ex or child wishes to contact each other.

please correct me if that is wrong??

Hope everything works out for you.

[Que Sera Sera]

Hi I just wanted to say the very best of luck to you. May you and your family have a wonderful life together . :hug: With your strength and determination it's amazing what you can achieve.

[foo]

I have got a budget set out that I can arrange my ex to come to Australia once a year and this is a very reasonable offer ( so I believe) he has to pay for nothing I pay for flights accommodation and even food and activites while here!!! if he refuses to travel to aus annually then I have also budgeted that I can come back to uk every year or 2 keeping in mind I have to pay for 2 flights, accommodation, food, activities and travel considerably more money than him coming to Australia. I believe I am being extremely fair considering he has not got to do anything at all. also Skype, facebook, emails and telephone will be accessible whenever either ex or child wishes to contact each other.

please correct me if that is wrong??

 

I can't offer any insight, but as a neutral party, I just have a few more questions (don't feel you need to answer them publicly), but instead they're something for you to answer for yourself.

 

What are the custody arrangements at the moment?

What does the father have to pay for at the moment?

How often does the father see his child at the moment? I'm guessing it might not be much. Can you prove this?

If you moved to Aus and the father could see his child once every year or two, would that be a significant decrease on how often he sees them now?

Finally and probably the most difficult to answer, if the situation was reversed, how would you feel about what you're proposing if you were in his shoes?

[sarahp77]

I can't offer any insight, but as a neutral party, I just have a few more questions (don't feel you need to answer them publicly), but instead they're something for you to answer for yourself.

 

What are the custody arrangements at the moment?

What does the father have to pay for at the moment?

How often does the father see his child at the moment? I'm guessing it might not be much. Can you prove this?

If you moved to Aus and the father could see his child once every year or two, would that be a significant decrease on how often he sees them now?

Finally and probably the most difficult to answer, if the situation was reversed, how would you feel about what you're proposing if you were in his shoes?

 

Very good questions and thank you

The custody arrangements are through the courts every week for 5 hours this is in the interim of court hearings

the father pays for nothing at the moment he doesn't have a job and not on jobseekers I pay all transport to and from the fathers house for visitation and all needs for our child (food, nappies, activities, transport etc incl during visitation I provide ex with all)

if the situation was reversed I obviously would be devastated however if the other parent can prove it is better for the child (other than not having one parent) then I would agree as nothing is about me or the father anymore it is about our child.

[Sammy1]

What will your job be when you arrive here? You say that you have budgeted to pay for the Father to come out here once a year. If you can show that you will have a great salary unlike the Father ( you said that he is a 'benefit bum' - yet you also say he is not claiming job seekers?) then you may have a chance to show that quality of life will be distinctly better for your child.

 

Make sure that you seek legal advice and I would also suggest detailing what your job will be/who your employer is and the amount of funds that you will have available for travel.

[geordiegirl68]

Then you may be very sadly surprised. Oz also has a a section of society that do are happy to live on benefits. In my experience about the same as the UK. During the middle of the mining boom when in mining towns any 18 year old could simply rock up mat the gate and ask for a job and be taken in on $100k, a lot of them towns still had a youth unemployment over 10%.

 

Oz offer lots of things. But sadly, that is not one you will escape.

 

Hi,

I am under no illusions that Oz will offer some sort of Utopia, and with my current role, and experience, will probably find myself working with a similar clientele in Oz, as it's work I enjoy.

Our main concern is the UKs 'open door' policy with Europe, resources are being squeezed so much, to the detriment of all! Schools, hospitals and public services are all feeling it! That is only going to get worse in the New Year, something most Brits are worried about. Also, with so many graduates unable to find work, and facing an uncertain future, I think I owe it to my children to give them a better chance of following their dreams!

Can I ask where you currently live?

[blossom]

Hi,

I am under no illusions that Oz will offer some sort of Utopia, and with my current role, and experience, will probably find myself working with a similar clientele in Oz, as it's work I enjoy.

Our main concern is the UKs 'open door' policy with Europe, resources are being squeezed so much, to the detriment of all! Schools, hospitals and public services are all feeling it! That is only going to get worse in the New Year, something most Brits are worried about. Also, with so many graduates unable to find work, and facing an uncertain future, I think I owe it to my children to give them a better chance of following their dreams!

Can I ask where you currently live?

Everything you are describing there could be about oz. 'Boat people' are in the news constantly. Many graduates are finding a lack of work. I certainly worry about my future children's future in oz sometimes.

[Guest]

I don't think (most) people were judging the OP - but indeed the facts of the case will be judged in court and to try and prove 'aus is better' is on a hiding to nowhere, I would personally drop any reference to schools/daycare/weather etc. etc. being better as there is no evidence to support that, it is simply a subjective opinion.

 

As others have said I would focus on the facts of your family in Australia as this is something that cannot be argued with.

 

If someone was trying to take my children away on the grounds that the schools were better or playing in the sunshine was better, I'd be immediately comparing the world standing of Universities in both countries and skin cancer rates!

 

Don't try too hard - stick to the facts, hopefully - if it really is what's best - then the judgement will go in your favour.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

I have looked on some previous threads and trying to get up to date responses all from many years ago and I am unsure if anything has changed.

 

I am on the waiting list to be transferred and they have said up to 8 years wait !!!

 

8 years? I knew a family (in the north of yorkshire) that got a house transfer within months...maybe you live in a sought after area?? I would check again...maybe ring the council area that you wish to live in?

[Metoo]

If you are in council housing, could you not get a transfer to another area? Just a thought if your only reasoning is for a better life for your child?? I personally do not see oz as providing a better life/ opportunities anymore..but that's another thread..maybe ten years ago I would have agreed.

have you looked on other threads to see the advise that has been provided previously for people in the same situation as you?

 

The OP was born and brought up in Australia, she has family in Australia. I am sure she is well aware of what Australia has to offer for herself and her child, or not as the case may be.