Daughter having to re-do prep year again after moving to Vic

[Sammy1]

Don't assume that your daughter will be ahead of the others because she has done a year of school and they haven't. Some kids will have been to Kindy, which from what I can gather is a lot like reception in the UK. The kids here are just as capable and varied as the kids in the UK and they will be doing similar stuff at similar ages. My kids went from the end of years 6 and 2 in the UK to mid year in years 5 and 2 over here and they are finding that the kids in the class are at a similar levels to those in the UK.

 

I'd be more concerned with finding a decent school than worrying about what year your daughter will be in when she goes there. A good school will ensure she is stretched whatever year level she is in and whatever her capabilities are.

 

Excellent advice.

[Alaska]

Don't assume that your daughter will be ahead of the others because she has done a year of school and they haven't. Some kids will have been to Kindy, which from what I can gather is a lot like reception in the UK. The kids here are just as capable and varied as the kids in the UK and they will be doing similar stuff at similar ages. My kids went from the end of years 6 and 2 in the UK to mid year in years 5 and 2 over here and they are finding that the kids in the class are at a similar levels to those in the UK.

 

I'd be more concerned with finding a decent school than worrying about what year your daughter will be in when she goes there. A good school will ensure she is stretched whatever year level she is in and whatever her capabilities are.

 

It may well be different in other states but the early years education in the UK does seem to be more academic focused than the early years here. Not saying that's a good or bad thing but we found that my son was doing the work in early year 1 that he did in the first term of reception. He had 6 months of reception only but his reading skills were head and shoulders above the other kids as they hadn't started here - they are catching up but he is still (just) the top reader in the class. I am sure he is not the "brightest" child in the class but his UK start did put him ahead in the short term at least.

[HappyHeart]

i doubt it alaska, he's probably just a good reader with excellent liteacy skills..naturally. I have never been concerned about my son reaching 'targets' i found kindy here in perth to be over enthusiastic about getting three year olds to reach the same standard...at 6 my son had a reading age of 12 and a half..at seven he's in the extension class and reading and spelling are probably top of his year group and that of above year....a lot of parents moaned about their year 2s being placed in a mixed year 1 and 2 class..I wasnt concerned...as expected my son has progressed within his natural ability supported by good teaching staff.

[NickyNook]

My younger son taught himself to read at three (as did I - he clearly had a genetic advantage there :wink:).

 

He started school at age 5.5 here in Sydney. In his kindergarten class (first year of school in NSW), there were a couple of other kids who were also early readers but the rest were not. His teacher just split the class; the readers were given books and work to do at their level, the rest started with the basics and learned to read during the year.

 

By the end of Year 1 they were all much of a muchness. My son might have started out with skills that the majority didn't have but they all caught up fairly quickly.

 

I think moving kids out of their peer group is a seriously bad move. There can be large age differences in classes here anyway due to the habit of parents holding their children back as late as possible. Moving a five year old up a year means they could potentially be in a class with kids who are seven. As well as the social aspect being a problem there's also the issue of physical size. The youngest, smallest kid in the class is never going to do well in sport when competing against kids bigger and stronger.

 

A decent teacher will cope perfectly well with children of different abilities in the same class.

[caramac]

i doubt it alaska, he's probably just a good reader with excellent liteacy skills..naturally. I have never been concerned about my son reaching 'targets' i found kindy here in perth to be over enthusiastic about getting three year olds to reach the same standard...at 6 my son had a reading age of 12 and a half..at seven he's in the extension class and reading and spelling are probably top of his year group and that of above year....a lot of parents moaned about their year 2s being placed in a mixed year 1 and 2 class..I wasnt concerned...as expected my son has progressed within his natural ability supported by good teaching staff.

 

Exactly what should happen,but it does depend on the schooling teacher. We had problems when we first moved to Perth with a PP teacher who was so negative about our daughter's ability to read (she could read road signs at 2 and was on Young Puffins at 3 1/2). I was very like you and relaxed about it all. I figured if she could read that well at that age, she wouldn't struggle and making friends was more important. The teacher was horrific though and was awful to our daughter saying she was a product of the UK education system (she hadn't even started school in the UK!). She was fine in year 1 though, with a wonderfully supportive teacher, but was bored rigid in year 2 where there was no differentiation. She was left to sit quietly when she'd finished her work, and because she wasn't disruptive, she did nothing for half an hour or so in each lesson. She was coming home telling me she was bored and she was really turning off learning. We moved school eventually after getting nowhere with talking to the school and she flourished.

We came back to the UK, then in 2009 we moved to Sydney. The girls were in years 9, 8 and 6 in the UK and went into 9, 7 and 5 in Sydney. I knew they'd probably be further ahead than their peers in Aus, but was relaxed about it and thought they could use the time to settle and make friends. It worked very well for the youngest, but the older two were very bored in some lessons (not ones they hadn't done before like commerce, food tech etc, but maths, English and science where they were covering stuff they'd done 2 or 3 years previously). We'd taken the girls' books with us and the teachers asked to see them. They confirmed that the older two were definitely 2 or 3 years ahead, but we mustn't worry because 'the curriculum would catch up with them'. They wouldn't do any extension or expansion work with them even though they supposedly had a G and T programme (I don't think my kids are gifted, even though the eldest has that label for English and languages, but they needed something more than they were getting).

I don't blame the whole system for this though. It was the school which was poor and this wasn't the only, or main, problem we had with it, so I'd say to the op, choose your school carefully. Ask what provision they have in place for children coming from different settings and how they help them to adapt. Maybe trying to find a school with a high population of 'incomers', not necessarily just from overseas - it can be as tricky moving from one state to another!

Getting used to the different teaching styles can be difficult. It took me a while to get used to how it worked in Perth, then I found it hard coming back to the UK after Perth to the more traditional teaching style in the school we'd chosen here! Give it time and let your daughter use the time to settle and make friends - the academic stuff will be fine and you're in a good position to fill any gaps there may be. Even little children can find settling into a new environment unsettling for a while, so it's good not to have any pressure while they're finding their feet.

[Que Sera Sera]

Personally I'd have a suck it and see approach. Put her in the year she should be and see how it goes. As a parent we try to prepare them for everything but even at that tender age she needs to find her own feet. Plus if she is ahead she may just prosper from her confidence .if it doesn't work out then maybe a year change or a Private School may be the way to go.

[Guest Ptp113]

Shouldn't think you'll have much chance with an August birthday unless you get a psychoeducational assessment indicating profound giftedness along with a comparable adaptive behaviour and social/emotional advancement. You are marginally more likely to get acceleration in a private school but then you will find she might be middle of the road with all the other gifted kids anyway.

 

It might be better for her to be extended within her age cohort than to be with kids who are much older. A lot of kids who are early readers and writers find prep boring but have a word with the class teacher about Blooms Taxonomy (or even provide her with her own ways of making the bog standard a bit more challenging).

 

Its well known that kids coming from the UK tend to be well ahead of their Aus age peers and whilst acceleration might seem like the easy thing to do when they are little it often falls apart when the kids are older and out of their age range.

 

Not the ones turning up at Canberra High School they weren't. Whinging about too much homework, compulsory school uniform, rough at recess, rough at games and on and on. Needless to say a number did the Pommy Run, never to be heard of again.

[Sammy1]

Not the ones turning up at Canberra High School they weren't. Whinging about too much homework, compulsory school uniform, rough at recess, rough at games and on and on. Needless to say a number did the Pommy Run, never to be heard of again.

 

 

To be honest there does seem to be a widespread misconception that 'all' children from the UK that migrate here are well ahead academically. This quite simply is not true.

Many have parents that disliked and did poorly at school (and pass this onto their kids), and have now come here for a 'better' life from the cold and low wages in the UK, to the warmth and higher wages in Australia.

 

The schools here generally seem more community based, more caring and yes academic. The kids that come from the UK have varied social skills. It is a shock to the system to some that manners within the school environment are an expectation here, not a choice.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Sammy1

[Guest guest92098]

Not the ones turning up at Canberra High School they weren't. Whinging about too much homework, compulsory school uniform, rough at recess, rough at games and on and on. Needless to say a number did the Pommy Run, never to be heard of again.

 

 

I have seen more feral behaviour from primary school kids here than I ever witnessed in the UK also kids in my sons prep class who are still having speech and behavioural problems. I seem to be constantly meeting people who's kid has Aspergers or Autism.

Ive seen plenty of kids just left to bring themselves up!

Having said that my son is an August baby and had to start school in the UK at 4 and he hated it he just wasn't ready. He has thrived here in Prep and I've enjoyed the attitude of letting them enjoy being little.

i can understand your frustration if your daughter is advanced at having to do it again. Good luck.

[starlight7]

My experience of British schools was that they were completely feral (ex teacher). Nothing like anything I have ever seen in Australia where at least good manners and concern for others are expected.

[Sammy1]

I have seen more feral behaviour from primary school kids here than I ever witnessed in the UK also kids in my sons prep class who are still having speech and behavioural problems. I seem to be constantly meeting people who's kid has Aspergers or Autism.

 

 

What a horrible post.

 

You seem to suggest that Autism and Aspergers is somehow more prevalent in Australia. Why do you feel that way?

Speech issues can be present in many children, regardless of nationality.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Sammy1

[Tina2]

It depends a lot on the school and there resources. Many state schools dont have the resources to give extra time and extra work to above average students. If you can afford it you may want to look at the private system and there are many that are not over the top when it comes to fees. They tend to have smaller classes, more teachers aids and more programs for gifted children. I agree with the comment that the child is far better in a class of children similar in age you just have to get the balance right of work appropreate to ability but also emotionally suited to the kids peer group.

[Ellie 2]

It never ceases to amaze me how many parents state that they have gifted children. These children usually turn out to be of average, or just above, intelligence. In total I taught for 52 years,in both UK and Australia, so I do know what I'm talking about. Please, for your child's sake forget about how intelligent you think they are and be guided by the professionals.

I almost always agree with Quoll's posts on education, but disagree that children from the UK are more advanced than their Australian cohort. This has not been my experience.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Ellie 2

[Wellers and Whitehead]

What a horrible post.

 

You seem to suggest that Autism and Aspergers is somehow more prevalent in Australia. Why do you feel that way?

Speech issues can be present in many children, regardless of nationality.

 

to be fair, i am not a parent but have met more parents in oz with children with the above than I did in the UK..doesn't mean anything just saying that's an observation.

[Que Sera Sera]

I think that far more children are getting diagnosed with many forms of conditions and I disagree that there are far more here. There were also lots at the school my son attended in the UK. It's global surely?

[caramac]

My experience of British schools was that they were completely feral (ex teacher). Nothing like anything I have ever seen in Australia where at least good manners and concern for others are expected.

 

 

Again, it depends on the school. All of us, teachers, students or parents, only have fairly limited experience, so to label a whole education system as better or worse is wrong, and unfair on the vast majority of young people who are hard working, polite, kind and community spirited.

There are schools in the UK where all teachers do is keep the peace (one of my friends does supply work in one), but I know it's the same in Australia (and no doubt every country!).

My children have, between them, been at 6 schools - 3 in Aus and 3 in the UK. Without doubt the one with the worst behaviour, concern for others, bullying and manners was in Sydney. However, I know that it is that one school, not all schools in Sydney (as testified by friends who moved their children too) which was the problem.

I could say that, because the schools my girls have attended in the UK have high expectations of behaviour, manners and community involvement, that the UK scores more highly, but that's not true either - just true for those schools. The school the girls were at in Perth had very similar values and my daughters' friends have come out of there as caring, polite young women just as their friends here are doing.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

I think that far more children are getting diagnosed with many forms of conditions and I disagree that there are far more here. There were also lots at the school my son attended in the UK. It's global surely?

 

 

Of course it's global, but like I said, just an observation.

[Incata]

I have a 12 year old granddaughter in Year 8. She does well academically but in other ways she is very immature. I think at the age of 5 it would be very risky indeed to push a child ahead of her age group- particularly starting in a new country. Academic work is not everything and in the long run an ability to fit in and communicate with others is vital. Australian primary schools have different priorities from British schools. Not saying they are better but they are not the same.

 

It is very interesting when you observe children of 4 and 5, just how much difference 6 months in age makes in terms of their emotional development. My son (4) is very clever, but emotionally he is a lot less mature than others in his class who are six months older. We noticed this in his pre-school in the UK.

 

I also know that my youngest brother (who is the most intelligent and gifted person I know), was put up a year when he was in primary school. This is a lad who was reading Shakespeare at 5. He was the youngest in his year, so when he was put up a year he was 18 months younger than many of his classmates. He was much less mature than them and from my point of view, the consequences were very sad. He wanted to be a vet his entire life, and yet, at 16 when he was doing his A Levels, he lost his nerve and applied for a different degree instead, as he did not believe he was talented enough to be a vet. He was, he got all his A Grades and got to Cambridge, where he excelled. However, he always said that he regretted being put up a year as he felt that he missed a year of his life. He felt, and I agree, that if he had not been put up a year, he would have developed emotionally much more and had the confidence to go for what he really wanted to do, rather than what he felt he could do without a problem. He is doing very well in his career, but he has always been sad when talking about his career choice.

 

As a result, even if either of my children were exceptionally talented (which naturally they are :wink:), I would not have them put up a year as I think the long term emotional damage that can be so easily done, cannot be as easily undone.

[Incata]

Of course it's global, but like I said, just an observation.

 

I think it has something to do with the schools attracting extra funding for every child with a label. My son has anaphylaxsis and his first school in Perth could not wait to get his medical forms signed as they got extra money for support staff to help him with his "disability". He is allergic to mango for goodness sake. We moved him to a private school after 3 days and they have not labelled him and apart from wanting the medical forms to post on the staff room walls (so the teachers know who has anaphylaxsis), they don't treat him any differently (other than to make sure they don't use mango in cookery classes).

[Sammy1]

I think it has something to do with the schools attracting extra funding for every child with a label. My son has anaphylaxsis and his first school in Perth could not wait to get his medical forms signed as they got extra money for support staff to help him with his "disability". He is allergic to mango for goodness sake. We moved him to a private school after 3 days and they have not labelled him and apart from wanting the medical forms to post on the staff room walls (so the teachers know who has anaphylaxsis), they don't treat him any differently (other than to make sure they don't use mango in cookery classes).

 

 

This is not true.Schools do not operate in that way.

 

You should also know that all funding for children with anaphylaxsis has been cut by the WA government.

[caramac]

It is very interesting when you observe children of 4 and 5, just how much difference 6 months in age makes in terms of their emotional development. My son (4) is very clever, but emotionally he is a lot less mature than others in his class who are six months older. We noticed this in his pre-school in the UK.

 

I also know that my youngest brother (who is the most intelligent and gifted person I know), was put up a year when he was in primary school. This is a lad who was reading Shakespeare at 5. He was the youngest in his year, so when he was put up a year he was 18 months younger than many of his classmates. He was much less mature than them and from my point of view, the consequences were very sad. He wanted to be a vet his entire life, and yet, at 16 when he was doing his A Levels, he lost his nerve and applied for a different degree instead, as he did not believe he was talented enough to be a vet. He was, he got all his A Grades and got to Cambridge, where he excelled. However, he always said that he regretted being put up a year as he felt that he missed a year of his life. He felt, and I agree, that if he had not been put up a year, he would have developed emotionally much more and had the confidence to go for what he really wanted to do, rather than what he felt he could do without a problem. He is doing very well in his career, but he has always been sad when talking about his career choice.

 

As a result, even if either of my children were exceptionally talented (which naturally they are :wink:), I would not have them put up a year as I think the long term emotional damage that can be so easily done, cannot be as easily undone.

 

 

 

Your brother sounds like my oh. He has a June birthday, was put up a year at his prep school, got a double scholarship to the senior school and straight into Cambridge. He's never felt that he missed a year of life though. However, when we were looking at schools for our eldest there were a few who offered to take her a year early - her birthday is 1st Sept, but we decided against it. When she was born I was so relieved she'd hung on until Sept so she could be the oldest on her class, so it seemed silly to give up that advantage. It also meant that she hadn't started school anywhere when we moved to Perth. I'm glad it was before they moved the cut off date though. If it was now, she'd have another year at home and that wouldn't have suited her - she was definitely ready for school at 5 1/2!

[Incata]

This is not true.Schools do not operate in that way.

 

You should also know that all funding for children with anaphylaxsis has been cut by the WA government.

 

Didn't know that. It was back in early Feb that the school told us they got extra funding and since my son is happy in his current school and they have never mentioned it, I have not really thought about it unless conversations like this one come up. When was it cut?

[Tina2]

Don't assume that your daughter will be ahead of the others because she has done a year of school and they haven't. Some kids will have been to Kindy, which from what I can gather is a lot like reception in the UK. The kids here are just as capable and varied as the kids in the UK and they will be doing similar stuff at similar ages. My kids went from the end of years 6 and 2 in the UK to mid year in years 5 and 2 over here and they are finding that the kids in the class are at a similar levels to those in the UK.

 

I'd be more concerned with finding a decent school than worrying about what year your daughter will be in when she goes there. A good school will ensure she is stretched whatever year level she is in and whatever her capabilities are.

Well said, Even with Kindy things vary between state run Kindy and Private run Kindy. The Kindy our Grand kids attend have extras like Tennis lessons and Japanese lessons, compared to many state run Kindys that are really more like play group. Look closely at the school and what it offers. State schools very greatly depending on the location of the school and good public schools have a very strict catchment requirement. Remember also that there has been quite a dramatic increase in the standards required now in Prep compared to a few years ago. I know from our experience that "many" kids in Prep are struggling with the new curriculam . So look at the schools in your area, state and private, make appointments and go and talk to the principle and have a look around the school see what is expected of students not just academically but in manners and behaviour

[Fiooooona]

You'd really need to plead your case with the head master but (I'm not trying to asume anything as I'm sure you know your child best) would it really be very detrimental to her education to repeat a year? The school would surely be able to cater for her like her old school did by giving her harder reading books ect. It's not so much about academic potential as much as emotional and if they don't think she could cope in a class with older students then that's the bottom line. Take report cards ect when you go to see the school and show them just what she's capable of.

[Fiooooona]

A friend of mine repeated year 10 due to being in hospital for most of the year. We're all still friends with her and she's made new friends too but sometimes feels like everyone around her is immature. We asked her if it is because they're younger than her or because it's simply what they're like and she says it's because she's a whole year older than them and is subsequently more mature. It will always be up to the school but bear in mind your daughter may not be as advanced socially or emotionally to be in a year full of older students. There is a girl in the year younger than me doing 2 and a half vce subjects (maths only counts as a half as it isn't graded) and would always be in my science class when she was in year 9. She wasn't even much more clever than anyone in her year, she just put so much effort into her studies she gave the impression she was clever. (As such we can all agree that she is a poo who tries too hard and is so fake in front of teachers)

Would your daughter be seriously affected if she did an extra year of school? I presume she's the oldest? - so it's not like her siblings are growing up and leaving her behind?

I REALLY don't want to seem rude or judgmental but SO many parents come to the new school and say how clever their child is just to put them up a year (it actually worked with my sister- but she is actually one of the smartest people i know) People sometimes boast about being a year ahead and it does my head in. Think about what's best for your daughter as you are the only one who will be able to answer your own question.