Asylum boat sinks - Guess who is at fault?

[indudhar]

There are reports an asylum seeker boat sinks off of the coast of Indonesia. Guess whose fault is that? The people who made the decision to put their family, their own children into tragically constructed boats are facing the inevitable tragedy. But they blame Australia and not themselves. Isn't it ironic.

 

The boat sinks in Indonesian waters. If Australia did get into rescue efforts, it means they would violate the Indonesian territorial integrity, violate the sovereignty of a neighboring country. Isn't that a breach of international law. How come the news agencies not questioning Indonesian rescue operations?

 

Didn't the parents who put those little innocent children's lives at stake, and responsible for their deaths by taking them on the ill fated boat, go unpunished? Is there no law that will punish people who put those little children's lives at stake. Are international laws that bad in protecting children?

 

It just surprises me how come they blame Australians for their own crimes...

[starlight7]

It was off the coast of Java- Indonesia. Not Australia- not even in Australian waters. Can't help thinking the man that was mouthing off was very suss.

[Quoll]

Ah, but they rang Australia to tell them where they were! Why the hell would they do that? Why didn't they call USA ? It'd have made just as much sense! Of course Australia (UK/US) is to blame - it's always to blame!!!! (Sarc off) I agree with you - bloody ridiculous! Australia didn't tell them to get into a leaky boat and put their lives at risk.

[flag of convenience]

There are reports an asylum seeker boat sinks off of the coast of Indonesia. Guess whose fault is that? The people who made the decision to put their family, their own children into tragically constructed boats are facing the inevitable tragedy. But they blame Australia and not themselves. Isn't it ironic.

 

The boat sinks in Indonesian waters. If Australia did get into rescue efforts, it means they would violate the Indonesian territorial integrity, violate the sovereignty of a neighboring country. Isn't that a breach of international law. How come the news agencies not questioning Indonesian rescue operations?

 

Didn't the parents who put those little innocent children's lives at stake, and responsible for their deaths by taking them on the ill fated boat, go unpunished? Is there no law that will punish people who put those little children's lives at stake. Are international laws that bad in protecting children?

 

It just surprises me how come they blame Australians for their own crimes...

 

The issue is a little more complicated than meets the eye. A situation of diplomatic mistrust was created, by the now Abbott government, loudly broadcasting certain policy towards asylum seekers. This was to further endear themselves with large elements of the Australian population and in doing so put a lot of high ranking people to which resulted in a degree of hostility towards Australia.

 

Nothing really wrong in returning folk saved inside Indonesian waters, but would probably have been diplomatic to wait until Abbott's visit tomorrow to Indonesia and to have attempted to have arrived at an understanding on future policy.

 

 

No little international law protecting children in most of the counties these folk come from. Allowing kid's to fester inside camps for years or decades on end is hardly an inducement, not to risk possible opportunities for a better a safer life elsewhere.

 

Don't judge people often in situations we in the west could never imagine as to why do they certain things in difficult circumstances.

[flag of convenience]

Ah, but they rang Australia to tell them where they were! Why the hell would they do that? Why didn't they call USA ? It'd have made just as much sense! Of course Australia (UK/US) is to blame - it's always to blame!!!! (Sarc off) I agree with you - bloody ridiculous! Australia didn't tell them to get into a leaky boat and put their lives at risk.

 

Perhaps because they are in the region of Australia and have been informed that the RAN is in the location and will attend.

[Sammy1]

The simplistic way this is portrayed in the media never really ceases to amaze me, but what dismays me is the blind acceptance of the 'facts' and nonchalance by so many.

[indudhar]

The issue is a little more complicated than meets the eye. A situation of diplomatic mistrust was created, by the now Abbott government, loudly broadcasting certain policy towards asylum seekers. This was to further endear themselves with large elements of the Australian population and in doing so put a lot of high ranking people to which resulted in a degree of hostility towards Australia.

 

Nothing really wrong in returning folk saved inside Indonesian waters, but would probably have been diplomatic to wait until Abbott's visit tomorrow to Indonesia and to have attempted to have arrived at an understanding on future policy.

 

 

No little international law protecting children in most of the counties these folk come from. Allowing kid's to fester inside camps for years or decades on end is hardly an inducement, not to risk possible opportunities for a better a safer life elsewhere.

 

Don't judge people often in situations we in the west could never imagine as to why do they certain things in difficult circumstances.

 

The issue is complicated - It is so complicated that we get confused and suddenly we bear all the responsibility for atrocities that happen in the entire world. How come there is not even an ounce of blame to the countries that they are fleeing. I don't see anyone blaming the countries they are fleeing. Nobody is asking how come they came to Indonesia, arrived safely and suddenly they put themselves in mortal danger when they started their journey on boat? I don't see Indonesians getting on a boat. Probably Indonesia is nice and safe place to live. But they are not satisfied with Indonesia either. Well, as you said, the situation is more complicated.

 

Trust me, I am not judging them for their plight. I feel sorry for them. Its unfortunate that these people have to put their own lives and their children's lives in danger. It's extremely saddening to see their plight.

 

But as soon as they start pointing fingers at Australia for their plight, my pity stops right there. Just because the situation is complicated does not mean it's Australia's fault.

[Parley]

Most of them are very wealthy. The designer clothes they are often wearing gives it away.

And usually they pay around $25000 per head for the boat ride. So a lot of money for a family of 8.

[boganbear]

$25k is far more than it cost me to come here legally

[dodgy]

$25k is far more than it cost me to come here legally

 

The thing is they cannot come here legally through the proper channels / front door they have to come the back door route.

[Ellie 2]

Perhaps because they are in the region of Australia and have been informed that the RAN is in the location and will attend.

 

50 metres of the coast of Java! Ofcourse that is much closer to Australia than Indonesia! Heavens the survivors swam ashore. Any excuse to get stuck into Abbott. I believe they rang the embassy in Jakarta.

[walvia]

Most of them are very wealthy. The designer clothes they are often wearing gives it away.

And usually they pay around $25000 per head for the boat ride. So a lot of money for a family of 8.

 

 

Where are you getting this from? Oh. Wait. Are you being sarcastic?!

[flag of convenience]

50 metres of the coast of Java! Ofcourse that is much closer to Australia than Indonesia! Heavens the survivors swam ashore. Any excuse to get stuck into Abbott. I believe they rang the embassy in Jakarta.

 

Well it doesn't require much effort to get stuck into Abbott on his performance to date. He's finding out there's a little more to politics than slogans.

Yes the RAN would likely to have been closet and as such were obliged to engage. Indonesia does not tend to have the naval vessels numerous enough to do so. While asylum seekers are a big concern to Oz and as thus the RAN has vessels in position that may be able to assist, the issue outside of politics is not so big for Indonesia.

[flag of convenience]

The issue is complicated - It is so complicated that we get confused and suddenly we bear all the responsibility for atrocities that happen in the entire world. How come there is not even an ounce of blame to the countries that they are fleeing. I don't see anyone blaming the countries they are fleeing. Nobody is asking how come they came to Indonesia, arrived safely and suddenly they put themselves in mortal danger when they started their journey on boat? I don't see Indonesians getting on a boat. Probably Indonesia is nice and safe place to live. But they are not satisfied with Indonesia either. Well, as you said, the situation is more complicated.

 

Trust me, I am not judging them for their plight. I feel sorry for them. Its unfortunate that these people have to put their own lives and their children's lives in danger. It's extremely saddening to see their plight.

 

But as soon as they start pointing fingers at Australia for their plight, my pity stops right there. Just because the situation is complicated does not mean it's Australia's fault.

 

Certainly more complicated than suggested here. No idea what you refer to by suggesting Australia gets the blame for all atrocities happening in the world. Considering the impact on Australia is very small compared to most other countries.

 

Yes the countries they are fleeing should in many cases receive more blame. I guess Australia's involvement in the destabilising of both Iraq and Afghanistan through the support of the coalition invasion and helping to put into place ineffective governments in those countries played no small factor in the flight of refugees.

 

I don't recall boatloads of folk from these countries fleeing prior to invasion. I do recall Indo Chinese boatpeople a generation before though from an earlier Australian involvement.

 

They are going to Indonesia in order to flee to Australia. What is there to ask? Actually Indonesians are fleeing in small numbers. A group of around nine or so fled to Far North Queensland, just the other day. West Papuans most of us refer to them and they don't feel safe at all.

 

The same old questions with regards to why asylum seekers don't stay on in Indonesia. Doesn't matter how many times it is answered but no matter. The reason being of course Indonesia has no obligations under law as does Australia in taking people in as refugees. Same goes for Malaysia and Thailand.

Australia signed up to do so and as such has the legal obligation to at least hear the claims of people. As I have said before tear up the treaty if no longer wish to abide by and stop playing double standards. It won't though of course.

[Ellie 2]

Can't accept the RAN were closer. They would have been well out in international waters and would have needed permission to enter and go as close as 50 metres from Java. The Indonesians would have had at least 1 naval vessel capable of making a rescue.

[flag of convenience]

Most of them are very wealthy. The designer clothes they are often wearing gives it away.

And usually they pay around $25000 per head for the boat ride. So a lot of money for a family of 8.

 

Tabloid nonsense for the large part and as I have written before so what if they have some money? Who ever said a person seeking asylum must be dressed in rags and be skin and bone? The price varies as judged by the country fleeing and circumstances.

 

When has anyone at anytime provided a service for free? Nothing what so ever to do with persecution in home country nor if a refugee or not under UNHCR regulations.

[flag of convenience]

Can't accept the RAN were closer. They would have been well out in international waters and would have needed permission to enter and go as close as 50 metres from Java. The Indonesians would have had at least 1 naval vessel capable of making a rescue.

 

It doesn't matter what is accepted. It may or may not have been able to react. I would have thought it would have been an embarrassment to have to allow a foreign naval vessel to partake a rescue inside home waters if an Indonesian vessel was indeed on hand.

[walvia]

Tabloid nonsense for the large part and as I have written before so what if they have some money? Who ever said a person seeking asylum must be dressed in rags and be skin and bone? The price varies as judged by the country fleeing and circumstances.

 

When has anyone at anytime provided a service for free? Nothing what so ever to do with persecution in home country nor if a refugee or not under UNHCR regulations.

 

 

In addition, when they seek asylum, their family members and community pool together all their money to get them to safety.

[Peach]

I think there is a fine line between running away from oppression and running to Australia, there are a lot of countries between here and Iraq/Afghanistan and so on that don't involve a perilous and expensive boat journey..

[Guest Ptp113]

Word here is it's another SIEV-X. Not bad for a bunch in for a week. It's gone from 'stopping the boats' to 'hiding the boats' to 'ignoring the boats'. The fundamentalist racist is off and running!

[flag of convenience]

I think there is a fine line between running away from oppression and running to Australia, there are a lot of countries between here and Iraq/Afghanistan and so on that don't involve a perilous and expensive boat journey..

 

Such as?

[Peach]

Such as?

 

Pakistan and India both have fairly stable governments. Going west there is mainland Europe. Aside from the fact that by being in Indonesia, they have already 'escaped' their country of oppression.

[flybyknight]

maybe they want to run to a country that is the oppressor, rather than another likely to be oppressed.

the uk usa and australia would be top of my list if i were fleeing with my family, as they are the aggressors. that way i wont have to risk the journey again.

maybe if we stopped killing innocents for a cheaper gallon they'd stop making the journey.

it was us, yes you and i with our vote, that put them in harms way in the first place.

deal with it.

[flag of convenience]

Pakistan and India both have fairly stable governments. Going west there is mainland Europe. Aside from the fact that by being in Indonesia, they have already 'escaped' their country of oppression.

 

I wonder if you are aware the millions of Afghan refugees that have found sanction in Pakistan? Or that Australia accepts some thousands from those camps per year. The reason being these countries harbour millions under UNHCR care but do not give residence.

 

That was the reason I asked which countries. Almost no countries have an obligation at accept refugees. Only The Philippines has signed the up to The UNHCR Agreement. Indonesia is not one of those nor Malaysia. Australia is.

[flag of convenience]

maybe they want to run to a country that is the oppressor, rather than another likely to be oppressed.

the uk usa and australia would be top of my list if i were fleeing with my family, as they are the aggressors. that way i wont have to risk the journey again.

maybe if we stopped killing innocents for a cheaper gallon they'd stop making the journey.

it was us, yes you and i with our vote, that put them in harms way in the first place.

deal with it.

 

Actually most are in poor developing world countries in camps. Places like Pakistan, Iran, Jordan, Kenya and the like. Australia gets few. Not forgetting countries like Germany and Denmark are also highly attractive.