Sydney is so expensive? What about the Central Coast?

[britsabroad2013]

We have been living in Sydney for the past 6 years and the for the past year we have been back and forth in deciding what to do long term? We never actually moved to OZ with the intention to stay, we came as backpackers and an opportunity arose and we decided to make a go of it!

 

Up until recently we had decided to move back to England but recently we have started to doubt our decision....we had a visit from family recently from the UK and even they thought we were mad leaving Oz when we both have great jobs with very good money!

 

One of of our main reasons for wanting to leave Sydney was the ridiculous house prices! I'm sure this same issue comes up again and again so it will be interesting to see what other people have decided. We also do miss family and friends but in all honestly it's the cost of housing is really getting to us! We can afford to go back to the UK mortgage free but if we chose to stay in Sydney we would have to take out a mortgage!

 

we have looked at the Central Coast in the past but decided the travel would be too much but we have started to re-think things.....my husband would work N.sydney so the travel wouldn't be too bad for him but for me it would be tough. My job is in Mascot! Would I be absolutely crazy to move to the Central Coast and work in Mascot? I really don't want to change jobs as I really do enjoy my job and I'm paid very well. Does anyone have a similar journey to work? Is it really too much?

 

We don't have children at the moment but plan to in the next year or so? my thoughts are OZ is such a great place to bring up our kids, it would be a same to move back to the UK just because the cost of the housing.

 

any input would be greatly received! Thanks all!

[flag of convenience]

I don't see UK being any less of a place to bring up kids. You are right prices in Sydney are insane. I have no idea as to the wisdom of moving to the Central Coast. The logistics would require careful scrutiny.

I wouldn't take too much notice of a visiting relative. The view is very different when on holiday. I'd go for debt free every time. That is real freedom. Look at what is right in your particular situation.

[Guest Dave53]

I'd have to agree with the previous post ... Why is Australia such a great place to bring up kids ? .... Mortgage free is a great draw card , and if you lumber yourself with a large mortgage here , then how do you then save your $1,000,000 the government say you need to ensure a descent life in retirement if you stay ..... Think about it , I wish I had listened to my gut feeling ..

 

Dave C

[Cez]

You'll really have to think about what you want - lifestyle wise as well as financial. I've just bought a weatherboard cottage in the southern Central coast for $435k. I'm a single professional. For me it's a no brainer - the thought of going back to the UK makes me feel stressed - I love the UK and have frequent homesickness for a decent pub and a Sunday roast, but the lifestyle here is much more "me." It helps that career wise I have been very lucky here and would not be able to get a similar position in the UK - so I'm earning a very decent salary with a manageable mortgage in a great place, with the only trade off being a commute. Some people are more anti commute than others - for me even in the UK I was commuting an hour from york to the suburbs of Leeds. I'm happy reading on a train for an hour but others aren't.

 

long story short - see how you feel about the commute, and consider what's really important to you in the long term. It's a hard decision - good luck!

[Naomi from Manchester]

If you're thinking of having a longish amount of time off work as parental leave once you have your baby, a whole year for example, then obviously you won't be commuting from the Central Coast to Mascot for that period of time, and if you're then thinking of going back to work only part time for 4 or 5 yrs until your child is at school, then the long commute won't be as much of an issue as it would if you were working full time? But on the days you are working you'll probably hardly see your child (most little kids over here go to bed around 7 or 7:30ish), which would probably make you feel quite sad .... and once your child is at school, if you're working full time at that point, what with the long commute, you might hardly see them during the week.

 

Is there a possibility it would be financially feasible for your family to buy on the Central Coast, then after the baby is born and you're back at work, rent it out and rent yourselves something closer to work? Maybe this is a rubbish idea - I dunno!

Edited April 26, 2015 by Naomi from Manchester

[britsabroad2013]

Thanks for your input so far everyone.

 

I should add looking at the Central Coast it looks like we too could be mortgage free there hence why we are thinking of going up there.

good advice from Naomi re the child thing. For the first few years it might be ok living on the Central Coast as I won't be commuting too much as will be in Mat leave and then more than likely I will be part time.

 

Apart from family and the wonderful countryside there isn't too much else drawing us back to the UK. We have major fear that we won't get decent jobs in the UK. We are not degree qualified and we have just been lucky in gaining many years of experience here in oz in our fields of work.

 

Has anyone got any input on the community up on the Central Coast? We won't have any friends up there..hope you are all a friendly bunch!

[Gbye grey sky]

The place to bring up kids is a red herring in my view. Good in either place as long as the parents are happy. It does sound as though your preference is to live long term in Sydney so essentially your choice is carry on renting, long commute with no mortgage or short commute with a mortgage.

 

Where I live in the south east of England buying without a mortgage was never an option for anyone (long or short commute). If it was me I would have a mortgage and limit the commute. As long as a mortgage is manageable it is not the worst thing in the world. Make overpayments if and when possible as I did and eventually you are mortgage free (as I now am).

[benthomas010]

People see 'mortgage free' as being wonderful due to the extra cash you have at your disposal...I'm assuming your relatively young as you came as backpackers? What will you do with all that spare cash?

 

Many people make the mistake of thinking of a mortgage as a bill, whereas in fact it is primarily an investment. An investment which will appreciate in value at a much greater rate than cash in the bank.

 

If I was in your position, I'd be considering buying somewhere outright - possibly in the central coast and living with the commute for a couple of years whilst you bring up the baby, but then - once you go back full time - not renting, but buying a second property, somewhere much closer to work so you can maximise your time with the kids, and make the most out of the decent money you are earning.

 

The property in the central coast will be providing rental revenue which is (tax aside) pure profit, and in addition to this you both have decent salaries you shouldn't have a problem paying for a mortgage and still being comfortable. When you want to retire - you will have 2 properties which will in all likelyhood be worth a lot more than you have paid for them, and a lot more than any savings plus interest you would have earned if you hadn't bought the second property.

Edited April 26, 2015 by benthomas010

[Gbye grey sky]

People see 'mortgage free' as being wonderful due to the extra cash you have at your disposal...I'm assuming your relatively young as you came as backpackers? What will you do with all that spare cash?

 

Many people make the mistake of thinking of a mortgage as a bill, whereas in fact it is primarily an investment. An investment which will appreciate in value at a much greater rate than cash in the bank.

 

If I was in your position, I'd be considering buying somewhere outright - possibly in the central coast and living with the commute for a couple of years whilst you bring up the baby, but then - once you go back full time - not renting, but buying a second property, somewhere much closer to work so you can maximise your time with the kids, and make the most out of the decent money you are earning.

 

The property in the central coast will be providing rental revenue which is (tax aside) pure profit, and in addition to this you both have decent salaries you shouldn't have a problem paying for a mortgage and still being comfortable. When you want to retire - you will have 2 properties which will in all likelyhood be worth a lot more than you have paid for them, and a lot more than any savings plus interest you would have earned if you hadn't bought the second property.

 

Oh dear. It is the attitude that property is an investment that largely led to the GFC and will no doubt do so again while this attitude prevails. If only everyone could view property as a home.

 

Anyway, even if it is viewed primarily as an investment, a wise investor would buy when the price was low and sell high. Not many would argue that Sydney property is under-valued right now.

[benthomas010]

Oh dear. It is the attitude that property is an investment that largely led to the GFC and will no doubt do so again while this attitude prevails. If only everyone could view property as a home.

 

Anyway, even if it is viewed primarily as an investment, a wise investor would buy when the price was low and sell high. Not many would argue that Sydney property is under-valued right now.

 

Extreme take on it one thinks. I'm assuming they are mid 30's at max, and if they have so far in their lives saved enough to be mortgage free... then they can more than likely afford a mortgage. So why not? Money in the bank - loses value. Interest rates will never keep the value of it growing ahead of inflation.

 

I'm not suggesting they stretch themselves. I'm suggesting that with two decent salaries, plus rental income this could be an affordable option.

 

Sydney is expensive - very expensive, if it wasn't - I would be moving there myself instead of Melbourne, but over valued? I can't see prices stagnating let alone declining anytime soon.

[Gbye grey sky]

I can't see prices stagnating let alone declining anytime soon.

 

That's alright then.

[benthomas010]

That's alright then.

 

Hey... its just an option to consider. Anyway - I'm just suggesting that the OP should consider the benefits of being mortgage free against the negatives. There are pro's and con's. Everyones circumstances are different and there are many different ways to get grow your finances, property being just one form of investment.

 

One thing that I was told early on in my accountancy career - was to make your money work for you. Whilst it is sat in the bank its not working. Its only working whilst it is invested in one way or another. In my eyes - and I'm no financial advisor, property is a safer low risk bet when it comes to investments compared to other options which many wealthy people I know endulge in - such as purchasing shares.

[flag of convenience]

People see 'mortgage free' as being wonderful due to the extra cash you have at your disposal...I'm assuming your relatively young as you came as backpackers? What will you do with all that spare cash?

 

Many people make the mistake of thinking of a mortgage as a bill, whereas in fact it is primarily an investment. An investment which will appreciate in value at a much greater rate than cash in the bank.

 

If I was in your position, I'd be considering buying somewhere outright - possibly in the central coast and living with the commute for a couple of years whilst you bring up the baby, but then - once you go back full time - not renting, but buying a second property, somewhere much closer to work so you can maximise your time with the kids, and make the most out of the decent money you are earning.

 

The property in the central coast will be providing rental revenue which is (tax aside) pure profit, and in addition to this you both have decent salaries you shouldn't have a problem paying for a mortgage and still being comfortable. When you want to retire - you will have 2 properties which will in all likelyhood be worth a lot more than you have paid for them, and a lot more than any savings plus interest you would have earned if you hadn't bought the second property.

 

It depends on the cycle of the market and the duration one expects to own the house. Buying a house in Sydney in the present cycle is a risk without doubt. I say this as it is primary a speculative market rather than an investment market. You will be aware of the difference, no doubt being an accountant.

[benthomas010]

It depends on the cycle of the market and the duration one expects to own the house. Buying a house in Sydney in the present cycle is a risk without doubt. I say this as it is primary a speculative market rather than an investment market. You will be aware of the difference, no doubt being an accountant.

 

Absolutely but I suppose I'm looking at this in the long term - a 20 / 30 / 40 year investment. Which lowers the risk somewhat.

 

I certainly wouldn't suggest buying any property for short term gain anywhere tbh.

[flag of convenience]

Hey... its just an option to consider. Anyway - I'm just suggesting that the OP should consider the benefits of being mortgage free against the negatives. There are pro's and con's. Everyones circumstances are different and there are many different ways to get grow your finances, property being just one form of investment.

 

One thing that I was told early on in my accountancy career - was to make your money work for you. Whilst it is sat in the bank its not working. Its only working whilst it is invested in one way or another. In my eyes - and I'm no financial advisor, property is a safer low risk bet when it comes to investments compared to other options which many wealthy people I know endulge in - such as purchasing shares.

 

It depends on the cycle. Money in the bank is reasonably assured. Here in Australia an interest rate of over 3% is still paid. Yields are poor in rentals taking out costs involved and the inflated price of real estate involved one would have to hope for continued housing appreciation.

Just how safe was the over priced property in The States or Ireland, Spain etc? There are better ways to seek reward but like you I am not an economic advisor to anyone but myself.

[flag of convenience]

Absolutely but I suppose I'm looking at this in the long term - a 20 / 30 / 40 year investment. Which lowers the risk somewhat.

 

I certainly wouldn't suggest buying any property for short term gain anywhere tbh.

 

There I would agree. If you are buying to nest and long term go for it. Price variations make little difference over a long period.

[Naomi from Manchester]

I think others' advice to buy 2 places and have 1 mortgage (if you can afford the deposit for the second place) with the view to holding onto them for a good while, sounds much better than my thought of buying 1 place and renting a second.

[Bungo]

OP sounds a bit like us, five years inSydney but finally the house situation got us down with renting or taking on an enormous amount of debt in order to live in a pleasant part of Sydney. And we didn't have a deposit available as UK house wouldn't sell. We were on excellent salaries, but we still could not buy.

 

We moved back and in the UK we are mortgage free and it is a great feeling, not because of extra cash as someone mentioned, but because it removes some worry, should the unexpected happen and it gives freedom and flexibility.

 

Nobody told us we were mad for moving back, in fact everyone was delighted. If they had said we were mad then I would have ignored it or said that they were mad as they didn't live in Australia either.

 

I do miss Australia at times as we were very happy there, but I feel like life is moving forward again now, whereas we were stuck in Sydney, not being able to buy our own place and put down deep roots.

 

But I think OP, if you really do want to stay. In this case I think living in the Central Coast area is madness, we looked into it at one point but four hours a day of commuting which it surely will be door to door is too much and would be very hard indeed with a young child in childcare down the line. I think a mortgage and shorter commute is better option.

 

But don't stay because your friend thinks you would be mad to leave or because of some notion of a better life for your children to be.

[Marisawright]

we had a visit from family recently from the UK and even they thought we were mad leaving Oz when we both have great jobs with very good money!

 

 

 

Don't let family influence your decision. Ask any Brit and they will say anyone who leaves Oz is mad, because nearly every Brit has a rosy view of Australia - which would, of course, be reinforced by the fun of being on holiday in Sydney which is such a great place for a holiday. If they had to live here and deal with the high cost of housing, they might be more understanding!

 

If you're seriously thinking of starting a family soon, then I think you need to sit down and work out how that will affect your finances and lifestyle. If you stay in Sydney, will you be still be able to afford a Sydney mortgage, what with the extra costs involved with having a child, maternity leave, etc? What about after that? If you move to the Central Coast, how will you cope with childcare? If you're both commuting long-distance the baby will have to be left in a creche for a very long day, but if one of you stays at home that's a big loss of income - and will the home-based partner feel isolated? Will you be happy having your child/children in long day care throughout their primary school years?

 

If being back in the UK means you can live closer to work and be mortgage-free then, even if you feel life isn't as much fun for kids there, it would mean they're likely to see more of you and you'll have more money to spend on their activities and holidays etc.

 

At the back of my mind is the factor you can't predict - how you'll feel after the baby is born. It doesn't take long reading these forums to find lots of women whose whole view of family changes dramatically when they have one of their own: if you're missing family now, it may be nothing compared to how you'll feel post-partum. Unfortunately you can't tell how you'll react till you're there!

 

If you feel that wouldn't be an issue for you, then your other obvious solution is to move somewhere cheaper in Australia instead of the Central Coast with a commute?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

If I was in your position, I'd be considering buying somewhere outright - possibly in the central coast and living with the commute for a couple of years whilst you bring up the baby, but then - once you go back full time - not renting, but buying a second property, somewhere much closer to work so you can maximise your time with the kids

 

This sounds like good advice but have you looked at Sydney house prices? Their chances of being able to afford a second Sydney property are slim unless they are able to take on a frighteningly large mortgage. In our area, which is not in the desirable inner suburbs, it will cost you at least $1.2 million to buy a modest, older three-bedroom home.

[benthomas010]

This sounds like good advice but have you looked at Sydney house prices? Their chances of being able to afford a second Sydney property are slim unless they are able to take on a frighteningly large mortgage. In our area, which is not in the desirable inner suburbs, it will cost you at least $1.2 million to buy a modest, older three-bedroom home.

 

I was thinking if they can afford to be mortgage free - they have probably saved something like half million dollars already whilst renting in an expensive city.. obviously they may have arrived in aus with that money but that wasn't how I had read it.

[Bobj]

People see 'mortgage free' as being wonderful due to the extra cash you have at your disposal...I'm assuming your relatively young as you came as backpackers? What will you do with all that spare cash?

 

Many people make the mistake of thinking of a mortgage as a bill, whereas in fact it is primarily an investment. An investment which will appreciate in value at a much greater rate than cash in the bank.

 

If I was in your position, I'd be considering buying somewhere outright - possibly in the central coast and living with the commute for a couple of years whilst you bring up the baby, but then - once you go back full time - not renting, but buying a second property, somewhere much closer to work so you can maximise your time with the kids, and make the most out of the decent money you are earning.

 

The property in the central coast will be providing rental revenue which is (tax aside) pure profit, and in addition to this you both have decent salaries you shouldn't have a problem paying for a mortgage and still being comfortable. When you want to retire - you will have 2 properties which will in all likelyhood be worth a lot more than you have paid for them, and a lot more than any savings plus interest you would have earned if you hadn't bought the second property.

 

In the late 1980s-early 1990s, there was a big exodus from both Sydney and Smellbum due to high prices in those cities and very low prices in country NSW and Vic. A bloke I knew bought a 4 bedroom house on a 1.5 acre property for $250,000 in prime northern NSW after selling his 2 bedroom house in Parramatta for $875,000. His job? A clerk on the Main Roads Dept, what is known today as the Roads And Traffic Authority. Indeed, I bought a 4 bedroom timber house in northern NSW, lived in it for better than 20 years and sold it at retirement for 3 times the price I paid...

I think it was Nifty Nev who advocated decentralisation, in which various State Govt. Depts would be moved to key country areas (Grafton, Tamworth, Bathurst, etc) that started the 'exodus'; but not too many people wanted that at first and after a few years some of the people realised that cheaper houses meant bigger profit from the sale of their city abodes.

Because of very many transactions like that, the country folk started to put up the prices of their houses and move further afield...

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[Freckleface]

We have been living in Sydney for the past 6 years and the for the past year we have been back and forth in deciding what to do long term? We never actually moved to OZ with the intention to stay, we came as backpackers and an opportunity arose and we decided to make a go of it!

 

Up until recently we had decided to move back to England but recently we have started to doubt our decision....we had a visit from family recently from the UK and even they thought we were mad leaving Oz when we both have great jobs with very good money!

 

One of of our main reasons for wanting to leave Sydney was the ridiculous house prices! I'm sure this same issue comes up again and again so it will be interesting to see what other people have decided. We also do miss family and friends but in all honestly it's the cost of housing is really getting to us! We can afford to go back to the UK mortgage free but if we chose to stay in Sydney we would have to take out a mortgage!

 

we have looked at the Central Coast in the past but decided the travel would be too much but we have started to re-think things.....my husband would work N.sydney so the travel wouldn't be too bad for him but for me it would be tough. My job is in Mascot! Would I be absolutely crazy to move to the Central Coast and work in Mascot? I really don't want to change jobs as I really do enjoy my job and I'm paid very well. Does anyone have a similar journey to work? Is it really too much?

 

We don't have children at the moment but plan to in the next year or so? my thoughts are OZ is such a great place to bring up our kids, it would be a same to move back to the UK just because the cost of the housing.

 

any input would be greatly received! Thanks all!

 

 

You would be looking at a roughly 2 hour commute each way from somewhere like Gosford to Mascot which gets a bit tedious after a while. However I had several staff who did it although our Sydney office was in North Sydney.

 

Have you considered looking south of Sydney rather than north? If you want to live near the beach you could look at the northern suburbs of Wollongong. Your commute to Mascot would be under an hour while your OH would be looking at just over an hour to North Sydney by train.

[jumpingjellybean]

We have been living in Sydney for the past 6 years and the for the past year we have been back and forth in deciding what to do long term?

One of of our main reasons for wanting to leave Sydney was the ridiculous house prices!

 

Personally I cannot relate to ping-ponging; it must be quite unsettling and stressful. I have always been very happy here and have no inkling or desire to return to the UK. Ever. But seems a lot of people struggle with making a permanent decision.

 

Apart from the house issue, do you have a list of other pros and cons for each country? That is how I make most of my most important decisions.

 

You could have the "best of both" - say six months living mortgage-free in the UK and then rent the house out when you spend six months in Sydney renting. I know someone who spends the English winter in Australia and the Australian summer in England.

 

Yes, Sydney is expensive for houses, but you can still pick up a decent bargain elsewhere in Australia; especially country areas.

 

Who says how long you will have your jobs for anyway - things change. My friend moved to be near her job and then six months later her offices re-located across the other side of Sydney (she was well annoyed)

 

There are reasonably priced places south (Campbelltown) and west of Sydney (Parramatta); but still within commuting distance. In the North (Kellyville) there are loads of brand new house & land packages being released. You could rent in Sydney and buy a house elsewhere. Get renters in and use it as an investment. Maybe sell it later or move into it yourself.

 

You may be considered crazy to live in the Central Coast and work in Mascot.....but loads of people do it - so maybe they are crazy too! People drive from Wyong to Mascot, and even further get the train from Newcastle to Central.

[Paul1Perth]

OP sounds a bit like us, five years inSydney but finally the house situation got us down with renting or taking on an enormous amount of debt in order to live in a pleasant part of Sydney. And we didn't have a deposit available as UK house wouldn't sell. We were on excellent salaries, but we still could not buy.

 

We moved back and in the UK we are mortgage free and it is a great feeling, not because of extra cash as someone mentioned, but because it removes some worry, should the unexpected happen and it gives freedom and flexibility.

 

Nobody told us we were mad for moving back, in fact everyone was delighted. If they had said we were mad then I would have ignored it or said that they were mad as they didn't live in Australia either.

 

I do miss Australia at times as we were very happy there, but I feel like life is moving forward again now, whereas we were stuck in Sydney, not being able to buy our own place and put down deep roots.

 

But I think OP, if you really do want to stay. In this case I think living in the Central Coast area is madness, we looked into it at one point but four hours a day of commuting which it surely will be door to door is too much and would be very hard indeed with a young child in childcare down the line. I think a mortgage and shorter commute is better option.

 

But don't stay because your friend thinks you would be mad to leave or because of some notion of a better life for your children to be.

 

Why wouldn't the UK house sell? If you ask the right price it would have sold, you could have stayed here, got a place you liked, maybe with a mortgage but so what, it gets paid eventually.