Leaving because of racism experience

[Guest jininiel]

It's been interesting reading the responses to my post. I do not mind being call black, I mind the way I am call black. People have refered to me as the black woman when in a group of women or students have refered to me as the black teacher who speaks English with an accent :biggrin:...Was I offended? Of course not. But when someone call me "some black woman" with disgust. Or people will talk to my husband and happily blocked me out as if I am not even there...now that is offensive.:mad: What am I suppose to think...I am invisible? And it has happened a lot here...My family have had some good times too. the children are doing a scrap book of all their adventure...And we are not going back to UK to tell people that Australia is horrible...we are glad we came because that's another life experience for us and another pin on our world map of places we've visited

[Bobbsy]

For the record, one of the reasons I decided to leave the UK was the racism I saw there.

 

Following the 7/7 bombings, I saw the lovely Sri Lankan family that ran our local corner shop literally chased away by violence, insults and vandalism against their property. This was all carried out by the local yobs in the name of "keeping Britain British". Ironically, the family they attacked wasn't even Muslim, not that this would have justified anything.

 

I hope the OP finds what she's looking for back in the UK--but I fear racist morons exist everywhere. At least down here in Aus we don't have tabloids like the Daily Mail egging them on.

[Zack]

Why don't you try another state rather than packing it all in, giving up and moving back to the UK where you will feel bitter for the rest of your life?

 

You'll only end up blaming the whole of Australia as racist, some of the comments mention they pick on you because you look different so it's the differences that are the thing here, not racism.

I just can't understand why people just don't get it.Australia IS Racist full stop.Some choose to not to exept it,or will say they haven't noticed it.not long ago in Queensland they had a poll on ninensm on the home page.Asking the question.IS Australia A Racist Country?70% voted they were,Aussies are anti most things from overseas,includeing poms.Iv'e been here 24 years.it was Racist when i got here and still is,and always will be i reckon.Where ever you live.Believe it or not.

[Guest stormgal]

Britain today is no better than Australia - USA is worse. I have found life in Australia to be rich, full of experiences, healthier and I wouldn't go back to my stressed old life

 

I'm sorry to contradict you, but I disagree. The racism in Australia (which I don't believe is really racism born out of hatred, but more like ignorance and lack of exposure by an uneducated public) - is probably worse than it is in either the UK or the US. Now I know that the term "uneducated public" sounds offensive, but don't take offense because from what I've seen, it is true - it is what makes racism true. What else can it possibly be?

 

First of all, my opinion is that the UK is very politically correct - I hear that you can even be fined for being racist - now that's amazing.

 

In the United States, although its' not as politically correct as it is in the UK and EU, (yet) if someone made a comment like, "why are you so dark" or "Your kids are colored", etc - it would be considered hostile and as such, the offender would probably be "tarred and feathered" within the community as a racist, fired from their job (as no one wants lawsuits for hiring people with biased views who would later act on them), or straight out punched in the face by someone having a bad day.

[MicheleW]

I just can't understand why people just don't get it.Australia IS Racist full stop.Some choose to not to exept it,or will say they haven't noticed it.not long ago in Queensland they had a poll on ninensm on the home page.Asking the question.IS Australia A Racist Country?70% voted they were,Aussies are anti most things from overseas,includeing poms.Iv'e been here 24 years.it was Racist when i got here and still is,and always will be i reckon.Where ever you live.Believe it or not.

 

Because Australia is not racist full stop, there are areas of Australia that are racist and there are people within different commuties that are racist, but this also applies to a number of different countries around the world.

 

From my experiences of homophobia in the UK and the gay bashings that go on around London I could just as well say that the UK is homophobic - it isn't, there are just people within the population that are. I could also say the same about sexist behaviour in the UK, US and Australia, but again it isn't everyone it is people throughout the population.

 

It is a very bold statement to say that a whole country is anything, be it racist, sexist, boring or culturally backward.

[MARYROSE02]

I'm sorry to contradict you, but I disagree. The racism in Australia (which I don't believe is really racism born out of hatred, but more like ignorance and lack of exposure by an uneducated public) - is probably worse than it is in either the UK or the US. Now I know that the term "uneducated public" sounds offensive, but don't take offense because from what I've seen, it is true - it is what makes racism true. What else can it possibly be?

 

First of all, my opinion is that the UK is very politically correct - I hear that you can even be fined for being racist - now that's amazing.

 

In the United States, although its' not as politically correct as it is in the UK and EU, (yet) if someone made a comment like, "why are you so dark" or "Your kids are colored", etc - it would be considered hostile and as such, the offender would probably be "tarred and feathered" within the community as a racist, fired from their job (as no one wants lawsuits for hiring people with biased views who would later act on them), or straight out punched in the face by someone having a bad day.

 

I think you are making the usual (& racist)? mistake of assuming that racism is ONLY committed by whites and the victims are ALWAYS non-whites.

 

The worst racism occurs in non-white countries although of course it's fashionable to blame it all on white colonialism.

 

Just a few examples - caste (apartheid?) on the Sub-continent, discrimination against women in Islamic countries, against ethnic minorities - Kurds and Armenians in Turkey (genocide in the case of the Armenians although you are not allowed to say it.)

 

The attacks against Indian students in Australia were not committed by white Aussies, something conveniently forgotten about.

 

The following Australian Federal and State legislation relates to racism and discrimination:

 

• Commonwealth Racial Discrimination Act 1975

• Commonwealth Racial Hatred Act (1995)

• Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Act (1986)

• New South Wales: Anti-Discrimination Act (1977)

• South Australia: Equal Opportunity Act (1984) and Racial Vilification Act (1996)

• Western Australia: Equal Opportunity Act (1984) and Criminal Code

• Australian Capital Territory: Discrimination Act (1991)

• Queensland: Anti-Discrimination Act (1991)

• Northern Territory: Anti-Discrimination Act (1992)

• Victoria: Equal Opportunity Act (1995) and Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001

• Tasmania: Anti-Discrimination Act (1998

 

[Petals]

Andrew Bolt wrote an interesting article in yesterday's Sun saying much the same thing Mary Rose, its only wasps who are racist and why is that.

 

How we have to stunt our children's interest and knowledge a in the world around them by assuming that a child may be being racist because they mention someone's colour especially if we are white.

 

I remember being in Japan in the early seventies before mass tourism took hold and I was in Kobe, I am blond and the children were fascinated at the time there were not lots of Europeans in Japan, did I think they were being racist by their curiosity, of course not it was interesting for them to see someone in the flesh that they had only seen pics of before.

 

The end result will make us so divided and that is so sad for the world.

[Guest TipsyKoala]

That is a shocking experience that you have described.

Some people are thick-skinned (good for them! I'm sure it makes life a lot easier) but I am not and if I were you I'd return to the UK if I were subjected to that disgusting racism.

We are moving to Aus in the hope our children will have a better lifestyle and I am sure you had similar hopes. I know if I were in your position I would return home knowing I'd never be happy until people changed their attitudes.

As I say I'm sure some people would be able to ignore the comments but why should you have to...you have done well to stay for 2 years!

I have family in Australia who tell me people are very racist over there and I've also read a lot of comments on this site that suggest similar...

Good luck to you and your family x

[Guest SupportPants]

Australia is pretty racist in my opinion. Here in Qld people regularly comment on the aboriginals, muslims, Indians in derogative terms. Opinions are just aired with no perception that as a Brit I might not agree! It does sicken me a bit but hey ho - it's my choice to be here so what can I really do. Interestingly I've worked at an Indigenous rights think tank and found the inverted racism was extreme as well. It was standard practice for the big leader - a national figure - to call us all 'white c*nts'.....

[Guest stormgal]

I think you are making the usual (& racist)? mistake of assuming that racism is ONLY committed by whites and the victims are ALWAYS non-whites.

 

The worst racism occurs in non-white countries although of course it's fashionable to blame it all on white colonialism.

 

Just a few examples - caste (apartheid?) on the Sub-continent, discrimination against women in Islamic countries, against ethnic minorities - Kurds and Armenians in Turkey (genocide in the case of the Armenians although you are not allowed to say it.)

 

The attacks against Indian students in Australia were not committed by white Aussies, something conveniently forgotten about.

 

The following Australian Federal and State legislation relates to racism and discrimination:

 

• Commonwealth Racial Discrimination Act 1975

• Commonwealth Racial Hatred Act (1995)

• Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Act (1986)

• New South Wales: Anti-Discrimination Act (1977)

• South Australia: Equal Opportunity Act (1984) and Racial Vilification Act (1996)

• Western Australia: Equal Opportunity Act (1984) and Criminal Code

• Australian Capital Territory: Discrimination Act (1991)

• Queensland: Anti-Discrimination Act (1991)

• Northern Territory: Anti-Discrimination Act (1992)

• Victoria: Equal Opportunity Act (1995) and Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001

• Tasmania: Anti-Discrimination Act (1998

 

 

 

MaryRose - I'd like you to point out where in the text I said that racism is committed by Whites only? I'd really like to know how you have arrived to that conclusion. This could be a forum about the racism that is seen in any of the countries you speak about and I"d be posting the very same comment. Read it over and see how it applies.

 

As for the links that you've posted, they mean nothing when the common people do not have the exposure and education that the rest of the first world has. Sometimes, the laws of the government do not represent what the common people believe - plain and simple.

 

The experience that the OP had was real. Seriously, if you posted those links to her as a response, would they really matter at this point? How do you think her and her husband would comment about those links?

 

And by the way, for your information, I am not Indian, Asian, Black or from any of the countries you've mentioned.

[fish.01]

Australia is pretty racist in my opinion. Here in Qld people regularly comment on the aboriginals, muslims, Indians in derogative terms. Opinions are just aired with no perception that as a Brit I might not agree! It does sicken me a bit but hey ho - it's my choice to be here so what can I really do....

 

The UK is pretty racist in my opinion. Some people I met regularly commented on the "pakis", "poles" and "muslims" in derogative terms. Opinions are just aired with no perception that as an Aussie I might not agree! It does sicken me a bit but hey ho - it was my choice to be there so what could I really do.

 

 

(Of course I don't really generalise the whole of the UK in this way ^^^ but it would be just as easy to see and generalise all of the British issues with racism and be blind to Australia's).

[MARYROSE02]

MaryRose - I'd like you to point out where in the text I said that racism is committed by Whites only? I'd really like to know how you have arrived to that conclusion. This could be a forum about the racism that is seen in any of the countries you speak about and I"d be posting the very same comment. Read it over and see how it applies.

 

As for the links that you've posted, they mean nothing when the common people do not have the exposure and education that the rest of the first world has. Sometimes, the laws of the government do not represent what the common people believe - plain and simple.

 

The experience that the OP had was real. Seriously, if you posted those links to her as a response, would they really matter at this point? How do you think her and her husband would comment about those links?

 

And by the way, for your information, I am not Indian, Asian, Black or from any of the countries you've mentioned.

 

'Well, you did talk about the UK/USA - if someone made a comment like, "why are you so dark" or "Your kids are colored", etc '.

 

And where did you get your facts regarding 'the common people' not having the exposure that the rest of the First World do?

 

If Australia is as racist as you say, then presumably there are more people in Australia being prosecuted for breaking the various laws?

 

That expression 'the common people' is rather patronising too, much more suited to the UK than Australia I think.

[Guest stormgal]

'Well, you did talk about the UK/USA - if someone made a comment like, "why are you so dark" or "Your kids are colored", etc '.

 

 

um...How does talking about the US or the UK make a reader think that the commentator thinks Whites are racist - as if non whites do not exist in those countries...?

 

The "why are you so dark" and "colored kids" was taken out of the experience the OP had. I was commenting strictly on her experience, not on something I made up or assumed.

 

 

And where did you get your facts regarding 'the common people' not having the exposure that the rest of the First World do?

 

 

 

Based on the comments I read here and other forums.

 

If Australia is as racist as you say, then presumably there are more people in Australia being prosecuted for breaking the various laws?

 

 

First of all, I'm commenting on the experience of the OP, not on the entire country. Although I still stand by my statement that the "common people" do not have the exposure that the rest of the first world has. You can choose to take offense to that or not, but a spade is a spade. Most of the towns up in Western Australia where the OP is from do not have the exposure the rest of the world has.

 

So you tell me - is calling someone a racially derogatory name, or highlighting their race in front of others, or avoiding someone because of their race - or anything else that the OP experienced breaking the law? If I were to do those things in a non work environment, would I be arrested? Better question, if the OP wanted to start up a lawsuit, could she do so legally? Or would she be dismissed and told that she needs to grow a thick skin?

 

That expression 'the common people' is rather patronising too, much more suited to the UK than Australia I think.

 

Well, "much more suited to the UK" would be patronizing to some people from the UK

[MARYROSE02]

If Australia was as racist as you say and it has been the same for many years, don't you think that news of that would be filtering back to the rest of the World?

 

Why do the refugee boats continue to head here?

 

I would not get into a car with a drunken driver. Why would anyone want to come to a racist country like this?

[Guest guest57588]

If Australia was as racist as you say and it has been the same for many years, don't you think that news of that would be filtering back to the rest of the World?

 

Why do the refugee boats continue to head here?

 

I would not get into a car with a drunken driver. Why would anyone want to come to a racist country like this?

 

Oh, I dunno, the whole 'Hey Hey It's Saturday' 'Blackface' story from a couple of years back caused a few ripples worldwide. There was deffo a perception internationally that we're a bit backward in terms of race relations. It still makes me wince, that and the Facebook mob who were after Harry Connick Jnr because he spoke out against it. I don't think as a nation we can rest on our laurels about casual racism, it's very much out there as I see it.

[basil]

I'm sorry you've been through this, it's ignorance and naivety. IMO Australia is behind the UK in terms of being PC racially.

 

Quite literally behind due to their 'white australia' policy which was only ceased in the 1970's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy

 

If you can imagine, until recently anyone who an aussie passed in the street who wasn't aborigine or white would almost certainly be a migrant. This decade is likely the cusp where those migrants, now many citizens, will have children and so that divide will go as an australian child could be just as easily black or mixed race as white.

 

I imagine what first generation migrants experience in australia is not all that different to what first generation migrnats experienced in the UK back in the 50's and 60's.....but as time passes people become more educated.

Back in the 80's the terms paki and coloured were much more prevalently used in the UK too.

 

None of that excuses what you and your children have gone through, in my mind it just explains it a little.

 

People will say 'it's the aussie way' to be so literal and outspoken but i firmly believe in 20 years they'll have caught up and the more general aititude/treatment/language will be more PC and a lot like in the UK where race is irrelevant to most people.

 

It's not just race anyway, Aussies are very perrochial full stop, buying aussie, offering jobs to aussie etc it's served them and there economy well but I do think as the time span of their country being more diverse grows it will all ease.

[Guest guest57588]

The UK is pretty racist in my opinion. Some people I met regularly commented on the "pakis", "poles" and "muslims" in derogative terms. Opinions are just aired with no perception that as an Aussie I might not agree! It does sicken me a bit but hey ho - it was my choice to be there so what could I really do.

 

 

(Of course I don't really generalise the whole of the UK in this way ^^^ but it would be just as easy to see and generalise all of the British issues with racism and be blind to Australia's).

 

I agree, although the Brits are generally a bit more subtle when it comes to racism. I was squirming whilst watching the Australia versus Pakistan Test series in 2009-10 when the Channel 9 presenters were cheerfully referring to the tourists as 'the Pakis' despite apparently being asked not to. The PC mob are very active in the UK, but here I think we try too hard to go the other way and it backfires on us. :sad:

[pablo]

I agree, although the Brits are generally a bit more subtle when it comes to racism. I was squirming whilst watching the Australia versus Pakistan Test series in 2009-10 when the Channel 9 presenters were cheerfully referring to the tourists as 'the Pakis' despite apparently being asked not to. The PC mob are very active in the UK, but here I think we try too hard to go the other way and it backfires on us. :sad:

 

 

It would be interesting to find out if Pakistanis see paki as racist or just an abbreviation of the country?,same as brits for Britain,carry on,just thinking out loud.....................

[MARYROSE02]

I was just reading in the paper today that in Pakistan a woman can be sentenced to be raped merely because her menfolk suspect her of being immoral.

 

And of course just last week in England there was that Asian couple who have been charged with murdering their own daughter because she brought shame on the family.

 

Being called a 'Paki' seems pretty low on the scale compared to that.

[basil]

Pablo, i've always found Paki puzzling too, on the surface it seems no different to referring to brits or poles....I suppose somewhere along the line (In the uk at least) the term was associated nagatively. Whether something is racist or not is, i believe, to be decided by the person on the receiving end....not the one saying it.

 

My DH is italian and was called WOG repeatedly in Sydney by friends and passers by alike, there was no malice in it but eventually he told friends he found it offensive and explained why (technically he's not a westeron oriental gent in any case!). oddly people still argued the toss on whether it was ok, rather than just accepting he personally didn't like to be called one.

 

I don't think in Australia it's about the colour of your skin as such, like Quoll says it's just an easy identififier of someone not being white australian, there is occasional animosity to white foreigners too.

 

I lived in asia for a few years, as a white person it instantly set me out as 99% likely not a singaporean and we received plenty of racist comments. It happens the world over because people see others as outsiders, arriving taking jobs, changing the ways of their culture and not fitting into their community completely.

[pablo]

I was just reading in the paper today that in Pakistan a woman can be sentenced to be raped merely because her menfolk suspect her of being immoral.

 

And of course just last week in England there was that Asian couple who have been charged with murdering their own daughter because she brought shame on the family.

 

Being called a 'Paki' seems pretty low on the scale compared to that.

 

 

Yeah i read it,but im not comparing races/countries and their moral codes etc tbh,just wondering if they DO find it offensive?do we sometimes ASSUME they find it offensive,do we sometimes look a bit TOO hard for things WE think offend other races?

As i say it would be good to hear from any pakistani PIOers on it

[Guest guest57588]

It would be interesting to find out if Pakistanis see paki as racist or just an abbreviation of the country?,same as brits for Britain,carry on,just thinking out loud.....................

 

Well funnily enough Pabs, during that tour the Pakistani Team Management did ask the channel covering the series to not refer to the team in that way as they regarded it as racist. Unfortunately this was either ignored by the broadcasters or made a big deal of it along the lines of "Oops, we better not call them Pakis or they'll complain and we'll never hear the end of it etc." There was no need for it and it made us look like ungracious hosts. The media's response was that in Aus we abbreviate everything (which we do) so why should a team name be any different?. Sadly, it overlooks the fact that the term 'Paki' has racist connotations which are well known and it would be best to just accept that and show a little respect.

[pablo]

Well funnily enough Pabs, during that tour the Pakistani Team Management did ask the channel covering the series to not refer to the team in that way as they regarded it as racist. Unfortunately this was either ignored by the broadcasters or made a big deal of it along the lines of "Oops, we better not call them Pakis or they'll complain and we'll never hear the end of it etc." There was no need for it and it made us look like ungracious hosts. The media's response was that in Aus we abbreviate everything (which we do) so why should a team name be any different?. Sadly, it overlooks the fact that the term 'Paki' has racist connotations which are well known and it would be best to just accept that and show a little respect.

 

 

This is more or less what im asking tho Tradie,WHY is it racist when BRIT isnt?

[fish.01]

I agree, although the Brits are generally a bit more subtle when it comes to racism. I was squirming whilst watching the Australia versus Pakistan Test series in 2009-10 when the Channel 9 presenters were cheerfully referring to the tourists as 'the Pakis' despite apparently being asked not to. The PC mob are very active in the UK, but here I think we try too hard to go the other way and it backfires on us. :sad:

 

Do you think. The overt nationalism I saw between the same race in Northern Ireland was amazing to an Aussie...the red white and blue painted half way up the power poles and on the gutters etc, the nationalism problems I was told about in Scotland (don't say this in that pub or they'll kill you), the race divide in many english towns/estates, the pakis/poles comments I heard regularly, the basic "we don't know about things like that" people I met, the overt ridiculing of other nations as a national sport for fun, the class divide, the tension I felt between shop keepers and taxi drivers and myself as they assumed I was local, the election of a skin head party to EP etc etc...despite all this crap I would never class the UK as racist because that would say it is worse than anywhere else and no-one knows that and it has many many decent people who are not prejudiced. I think some people judge their own country using their own friends/areas in the best part of the country and then judge others on their worst people/areas.

[Guest guest57588]

Do you think. The overt nationalism I saw between the same race in Northern Ireland was amazing to an Aussie...the red white and blue painted half way up the power poles and on the gutters etc, the nationalism problems I was told about in Scotland (don't say this in that pub or they'll kill you), the race divide in many english towns/estates, the pakis/poles comments I heard regularly, the basic "we don't know about things like that" people I met, the overt ridiculing of other nations as a national sport for fun, the class divide, the tension I felt between shop keepers and taxi drivers and myself as they assumed I was local, the election of a skin head party to EP etc etc...despite all this crap I would never class the UK as racist because that would say it is worse than anywhere else and no-one knows that and it has many many decent people who are not prejeduced. I think some people judge their own country using their own friends/areas in the best part of the country and then judge others on their worst people/areas.

 

Fish can you really compare the generally lazy, ignorant racism that currently goes on in Oz with sectarian civil war that raged through the island of Ireland for the best part of 350 years on and off?. Oliver Cromwell pretty much instigated genocide in Ireland, the repercussions of which lasted centuries and is only now after enormous effort slowly being put right.

 

Overt criticisms of other races?. One of my lads mates not so long ago came back from a holiday in Bali. First time out of Aus and he came back cracking gags about Muslims and suicide bombers, how no one speaks english (in Bali!!), the women are ugly, the beer is p*ss etc. When I challenged him on all this he just shrugged and changed the subject to how good it was to be back in Aus (and away from the from the horrors and the flesh-pots) of Bali!), which makes me wonder how prevalent those views are.

 

I can't speak to how things currently are in the UK, but I don't think we can afford to be complacent.