Guest Guest31881 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 True. You have to let go of the past for the future to work for you. As soon as I stopped comparing to the UK, and wondering why they didn't sell so and so here, the much happier and settled I became. kev That is very true Kev, once you stop thinking about what you would have had or purchased in the UK and start thinking that you are now in Australia it helps to start the process of integrating into your new life. This does not work for everyone and of course not everyone will settle into or enjoy Australian life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mazovia Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Gillian! It was your post that prompted me to register with the PIO, actually! I have been following closely this forum for about a year now! We live in Perth, UK and last year (well, in 2009) we had a thought about moving to Australia for a better life for our kids (age now 5 and 9). But as it happened over the course of 2010 there have been many changes to the Australian visa system and we have not even started any visa application yet. I suppose, it's because we are not desperate, and because - we have a wonderful life here in Perth, which is a great place to be ( I am minutes from work by foot!) But - the sense of adventure and starting/ learning something new was calling us. I view Australia as a developing country with many opportunities for my kids. But the truth is - never been to Australia - and I'm curious to read as much about life there ahead of my visit sometime in the future. I'm glad this thread exists as it does counter-balance the hopeful/ unrealistic view the future migrants may have! Hope, you won't be put off by the winter and grey weather on your arrival in Perth. You already made your decision, so just won't to say - Perth is great! Speak soon! Renata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mazovia Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 sorry.. want to say, how embarrasing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mazovia Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Gold Gang, you sound like you know what you want in life, a bit like we did!!! If I were you, Id be giving it a go. If you are in a position to do it, go for it. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Life is short enough without wondering.what if??? Hi Joanne and everyone else who reads this very interesting thread. I'm not in Oz, never been but (still) think I would love it there. I understand what it's like to fall in love with an adopted country and feel protective of any negative comments about it. But may I reassure everyone that comments in this thread do not come to me as negative at all. Really, it's just life, different people = different experiences = different points of view. I still think I'd like it inOz even though I have a fantastic life in the UK and sooo much to loose by moving. I also agree with what you said about knowing what you want = being self aware. I thinks this thread very muchhelps with thata, so keep it going! Thanks to everyone who contributed! :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovies Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Gillian! It was your post that prompted me to register with the PIO, actually! I have been following closely this forum for about a year now! We live in Perth, UK and last year (well, in 2009) we had a thought about moving to Australia for a better life for our kids (age now 5 and 9). But as it happened over the course of 2010 there have been many changes to the Australian visa system and we have not even started any visa application yet. I suppose, it's because we are not desperate, and because - we have a wonderful life here in Perth, which is a great place to be ( I am minutes from work by foot!) But - the sense of adventure and starting/ learning something new was calling us. I view Australia as a developing country with many opportunities for my kids. But the truth is - never been to Australia - and I'm curious to read as much about life there ahead of my visit sometime in the future. I'm glad this thread exists as it does counter-balance the hopeful/ unrealistic view the future migrants may have!Hope, you won't be put off by the winter and grey weather on your arrival in Perth. You already made your decision, so just won't to say - Perth is great! Speak soon! Renata Hi Mazovia, we have been in South Australia since 1999 and will be returning home to Edinburgh within the next 6 months. I am glad we came for the character building side of things but sometimes wish we hadn't because of the 12 years of feeling like a square peg in a round hole and the misery of being away from family and familiarity. For me, having a big house with pool and land means zilch compared to living a real life back in Scotland. I was home in May and the feeling of just belonging was instant! I am sorry for coming over so negatively about life in Oz .... it is a beautiful place with sunshine and beaches but, to me, that is great if you are here on holiday. Living here, for us, is a different story. Best of luck with your decision. You are doing the right thing by reading people's experiences on both sides of the coin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mazovia Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Mazovia, we have been in South Australia since 1999 and will be returning home to Edinburgh within the next 6 months. I am glad we came for the character building side of things but sometimes wish we hadn't because of the 12 years of feeling like a square peg in a round hole and the misery of being away from family and familiarity. For me, having a big house with pool and land means zilch compared to living a real life back in Scotland. I was home in May and the feeling of just belonging was instant! I am sorry for coming over so negatively about life in Oz .... it is a beautiful place with sunshine and beaches but, to me, that is great if you are here on holiday. Living here, for us, is a different story. Best of luck with your decision. You are doing the right thing by reading people's experiences on both sides of the coin! Hi! I cannot stress enough how happy I feel in Scotland and I wish you all the best on your return to the beautiful Edinburgh (and by the way before I arrived in Scotland I thought that Vienna was one of the most beautiful capitals in Europe, until I saw Edinburgh!). I am already on adventure just by virtually exploring life in Oz. It may be enough for me. Who knows?:daydreaming: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovies Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Hi! I cannot stress enough how happy I feel in Scotland and I wish you all the best on your return to the beautiful Edinburgh (and by the way before I arrived in Scotland I thought that Vienna was one of the most beautiful capitals in Europe, until I saw Edinburgh!).I am already on adventure just by virtually exploring life in Oz. It may be enough for me. Who knows?:daydreaming: Have a look at this thread - http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/moving-back-uk/59662-unsettled-feeling-normal.html- I think it has lots of honest and insightful posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I must admit that, like others, I don't understand what people mean when they say 'moving to Australia for a better life for our kids'. I'm not saying this country cant provide a better life for some kids but the belief it is almost a foregone conclusion is confusing. We still have all the usual problems here and I have found that the biggest influences on how kids grow up are their parents and their immediate surroundings. I have no idea what this country or the UK is going to be like in 10 years from now and as our kids aren't sporty outdoors types those 'benefits' don't really apply to them. I hope you do come and that you settle and find it is all you are imagining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mazovia Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I must admit that, like others, I don't understand what people mean when they say 'moving to Australia for a better life for our kids'. I'm not saying this country cant provide a better life for some kids but the belief it is almost a foregone conclusion is confusing. We still have all the usual problems here and I have found that the biggest influences on how kids grow up are their parents and their immediate surroundings. I have no idea what this country or the UK is going to be like in 10 years from now and as our kids aren't sporty outdoors types those 'benefits' don't really apply to them. I hope you do come and that you settle and find it is all you are imagining. hmm... food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Please don't let anything I say influence any decision, apparently I just make up all my experiences I post on here :wink: Seriously though I have noticed a tendency for people to have this picture in their head which usually comes from tourist propaganda or from Immigration agencies. When we first came over as a family in 1962 my mother was told she wouldn't need to bring her Hoover as there is no dust in Australia. :biggrin: I'm not saying people lie but some exaggerate what is good for THEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsindecision Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I must admit that, like others, I don't understand what people mean when they say 'moving to Australia for a better life for our kids'. I'm not saying this country cant provide a better life for some kids but the belief it is almost a foregone conclusion is confusing. We still have all the usual problems here and I have found that the biggest influences on how kids grow up are their parents and their immediate surroundings. I have no idea what this country or the UK is going to be like in 10 years from now and as our kids aren't sporty outdoors types those 'benefits' don't really apply to them. I hope you do come and that you settle and find it is all you are imagining. Yes this is a strange one - we certainly moved to Oz thinking there would be more opportunity for our kids - only to find there was less ( where we were living). We thought it was safer but the locals were badly affected by the abduction of a child that had happened about 6 years ago and were very protective of their children - we were seen to be very relaxed and liberal by allowing our 15 year old to get the bus to the mall on her own. We were also seen as being very tough for making her walk half an hour home every day. Kids are as mollycoddled and sheltered there as here. I notice here a bit more individuality and kids can be themselves more. Since coming home to Uk my daughter has had a birthday dinner at a restaurant and I waited to meet all the parents - none arrived all kids ( nice girls from nice families) were dropped off by end of road (14/15/16 yr olds) and no drama about the whole thing which was refreshing compared to Oz where the parents were paranoid and judgemental. We never locked our door when in Oz - because relatively it felt so safe - but the locals locked up everything ( although we're not good at locking up here either - perhaps it's a mindset thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I agree. Before someone jumps in and sees this as anti Australian it isn't. I just don't see any real difference. It comes down to the area you live, your parents, your teachers, your school and many other things. It's the same when people say they feel safer here, why exactly ? I don't feel unsafe here but then I never used to feel unsafe in the UK. If you move from a crap area to a good area then it goes without saying you will feel safer but that has nothing to do with the country, just the area you lived/live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 "we were seen to be very relaxed and liberal by allowing our 15 year old to get the bus to the mall on her own." That's what we found too. We let our 15 year old travel to Sydney from the North Shore on the train at weekends. Lots of the local parents thought we were mad because 'they have to travel through Chatswood and it's full of triad groups"!!! I think it was mostly the locals who thought like that though because my daughter's friend, who'd moved from Brisbane was allowed to go too. The rest never seemed to go anywhere without their parents because of the perceived dangers around every corner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Liverbird5 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi Chris I have now decided to go back to NZ and not the UK. I think you need to be here a while to work through all the emotions etc. Australia is certainly not that much better for the kids unless they are the sought to take full advantage of the outdoor activities here. As a secondary teacher, I can honestly say the English system is the best and more importantly gets kids who do not work hard on their own (like my younger son!) and keeps them at a higher level with the weekly tests in English, Maths and Science. We have been out of the UK for 8 years now and only this year am I finally seeing things for what they are for me. I do love seeing the blue sky every morning but dont like the day to day life in OZ. At least in NZ, my kids had friends popping around and making plans etc (similar to the UK). I find here its so difficult as people live so far apart, its hard if you're at work etc. My 14 does go out but the parents of his friends are so much more restrictive. TBH I think the UK is the best for making those long term friends. I hope to go back to the UK in 4 years time awhen my yonger son has finished his education nd try and have a life where I can have a property in NZ and come back every summer etc? Although I love the English countryside (Chipping Norton), I know I will miss the laid back way in East Auckland as well. We dont have close family left back in the UK so are not in the same position as others. I watch programmes like 'Phil down under' and cant help thinking - 'great that you have bought that big house, but then what? When the kids go to school and hubby goes to work, then what?' Of course people make friends and some make lifelong Aussie mates, but its not the same. I really think there is something different about people from the UK - shame we cant get together more often here and in NZ to have it all! We will come back to Aus to shop and will miss the TV (it's still better than in NZ!) but the kids and I love the NZ way of life and their school also does the English Cambridge IGCSE (I was shocked they do not do that here in Australia) as most countries do. My older son now has his IGCSE certificate from Cambridge and feels he did the same exams as if he was in the UK. I think in the end, it has opened up a great new world to our kids. The UK is lovely but totally developed (reason I want a base there) but being out here has opened my kids eyes to so much else in these developing countries such as when my older son (18) was employed as a metre-reader for a few weeks in the summer and drove up to Coffs and had to read Aboriginal houses and learned so much, amazing. He has driven around the NSW coast and played football in the Premier league and gone fishing with mates. My younger son (14) qualified as a Ref (only $50 for the course) and made $1300 reffing games at the weekend (adult games as well) - he would never have done that in the UK. But I still love the the UK and miss the buildings and country terribly. Only parents know what is best for their kids so do what you think is right but I do think its worth a go for the experience. Just rent your house out and keep your UK bank account etc to give you the best of both. I personally think that once you have been here, it does stay with you, the blue sky and being able to run in the mornings without people staring at you, but the great friendships are back home so that is also important - we all need to try for both! I am going to try to get a flat back home and have my main house in NZ. Good luck to everyone leaving. We are leaving in Feb so not long to go. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Great post, all the best for the future. I agree with so much of your post. I grew up here from 18 months of age so I should be an Aussie through and through but I just can't identify with much here. I have friends in the UK that would quite literally do anything for us, we have never come across the same here. That's not to say it is the same for everyone but for us these great friends are very important to us. I worry that the education my kids are getting is just too 'laid back' and we seem to be teaching them more than the school. We are also very firm believers that this country doesn't offer us or our kids a better future, I don't have a crystal ball so I have no idea what the future holds. I can understand people moving here wanting to believe it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Great post, all the best for the future. I agree with so much of your post. I grew up here from 18 months of age so I should be an Aussie through and through but I just can't identify with much here. I have friends in the UK that would quite literally do anything for us, we have never come across the same here. That's not to say it is the same for everyone but for us these great friends are very important to us. I worry that the education my kids are getting is just too 'laid back' and we seem to be teaching them more than the school. We are also very firm believers that this country doesn't offer us or our kids a better future, I don't have a crystal ball so I have no idea what the future holds. I can understand people moving here wanting to believe it though. Jeezus, you let that one slip! I might have to 'unfriend' you! :biglaugh: I've often pondered the role of education in a life trajectory here and it is certainly different. The schools and the curriculum shy away from ordering kids on any sort of academic basis and meaningful tests are few and far between. I think the reason educational attainment is not so highly regarded is a) that manual jobs are often much more lucrative than academically based ones and b)that the minimum wage is comparatively high. For instance , in my shoe shop I get $21 per hour and if you pro-rata'd that it's $42,000 for standing around looking dumb compared to $49,000 if I was busting my ar*se as a teacher (minimum of 4 years at Uni!) . I think this narrow band between very low level jobs and some professions have created something of a brain drain and explains to some extent why you get careers advisors discouraging kids from going to Uni! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 :laugh: I have lived in England for various periods over the years but my early years were spent here and I finished my schooling in the UK. Yes I think when people see they can earn good money building houses or fixing the plumbing or selling shoes or now working in the mines it could influence how long they stay in school and how they view education in their long term future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 ...and I finished my schooling in the UK. . Weren't you 'finished' in Switzerland? :em0400: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Jeezus, you let that one slip! I might have to 'unfriend' you! :biglaugh: I've often pondered the role of education in a life trajectory here and it is certainly different. The schools and the curriculum shy away from ordering kids on any sort of academic basis and meaningful tests are few and far between. I think the reason educational attainment is not so highly regarded is a) that manual jobs are often much more lucrative than academically based ones and b)that the minimum wage is comparatively high. For instance , in my shoe shop I get $21 per hour and if you pro-rata'd that it's $42,000 for standing around looking dumb compared to $49,000 if I was busting my ar*se as a teacher (minimum of 4 years at Uni!) . I think this narrow band between very low level jobs and some professions have created something of a brain drain and explains to some extent why you get careers advisors discouraging kids from going to Uni! you've touched on something there. It feels like living in a working class 1950's time warp to me. In our local 'broadsheet' they publish an annual list of all the apprentices and who got the best first 1st year apprentice award etc. Before the class warriors jump on my case (pablo:wink:), I've nothing against the ordinary working bloke, but like a lot of things in oz, there is a disconcerting uniformity to life: everyone seems to bugger off on hols from december 24 to feb 1, all social activities go on hold during this time. It seems you go to school then enter an apprentiship, then spend the rest of your adult life wearing blunstones and overalls, not forgetting the weekends being spent playing footy, until the late 40s when the arthritis and diabetes kicks in. For the ladies it's finish school, then go work in coles, get fat, then the arthritis and diabetes kicks in at an eerily similar time to the men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 you've touched on something there. It feels like living in a working class 1950's time warp to me. In our local 'broadsheet' they publish an annual list of all the apprentices and who got the best first 1st year apprentice award etc.Before the class warriors jump on my case (pablo:wink:), I've nothing against the ordinary working bloke, but like a lot of things in oz, there is a disconcerting uniformity to life: everyone seems to bugger off on hols from december 24 to feb 1, all social activities go on hold during this time. It seems you go to school then enter an apprentiship, then spend the rest of your adult life wearing blunstones and overalls, not forgetting the weekends being spent playing footy, until the late 40s when the arthritis and diabetes kicks in. For the ladies it's finish school, then go work in coles, get fat, then the arthritis and diabetes kicks in at an eerily similar time to the men. The apprenticeships seem to take as long as a degree - presumably one year learning how to care for your yakka boots and high viz fabric, another year of intensive health and safety - how to carry a tea cup and so on - and then the final year on pricing/distribution issues - a massive, random stab in the dark accompanied with the 'I've got no idea how long it will take to get up from Brissy' statement. I can't think of another country where learning is actively discouraged to this extent - other than may be Afghanistan under the Taliban - but even then it's a close call.....:clown-beardy_bastar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toorak Trev Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 LOL, as much as i would lurrvvv to name names ,i won't sorry. Cal x So it was Tad? being they were the only one to thank you for that comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landv Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The schools and the curriculum shy away from ordering kids on any sort of academic basis and meaningful tests are few and far between. You're quite right, there is a school in Margaret River (WA), where one day a week, every week, children spend the day to learn outdoor skills and bush survival instead being in the classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 you've touched on something there. It feels like living in a working class 1950's time warp to me. In our local 'broadsheet' they publish an annual list of all the apprentices and who got the best first 1st year apprentice award etc.Before the class warriors jump on my case (pablo:wink:), I've nothing against the ordinary working bloke, but like a lot of things in oz, there is a disconcerting uniformity to life: everyone seems to bugger off on hols from december 24 to feb 1, all social activities go on hold during this time. It seems you go to school then enter an apprentiship, then spend the rest of your adult life wearing blunstones and overalls, not forgetting the weekends being spent playing footy, until the late 40s when the arthritis and diabetes kicks in. For the ladies it's finish school, then go work in coles, get fat, then the arthritis and diabetes kicks in at an eerily similar time to the men. Whats wrong with that?they print university results in our local paper,is one more worthy than another?does it do any harm? Btw to me your just an ordinary working bloke,or do you class yourself different? To my mind theres a fair bit of dummy spitting from brits who seem to begrudge the fact the tradesman is valued just as much(or nearly as much)as a "professional" in oz,you/they seem a bit peeved because there isnt as much kudos/emphasis put on occupation,thats not me being a "class warrior",thats me NOT being a job snob:wink: I like the fact the minimum wage is quite high,maybe carers and the like might get something like the wages they deserve then? A lot of sweeping generalisations there h,you've outdone yourself this time.:notworthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36762 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Whats wrong with that?they print university results in our local paper,is one more worthy than another?does it do any harm?Btw to me your just an ordinary working bloke,or do you class yourself different? To my mind theres a fair bit of dummy spitting from brits who seem to begrudge the fact the tradesman is valued just as much(or nearly as much)as a "professional" in oz,you/they seem a bit peeved because there isnt as much kudos/emphasis put on occupation,thats not me being a "class warrior",thats me NOT being a job snob:wink: I like the fact the minimum wage is quite high,maybe carers and the like might get something like the wages they deserve then? A lot of sweeping generalisations there h,you've outdone yourself this time.:notworthy: Cheers mate. You've done as expected and misinterpreted my sage like words. I agree that I'm an ordinary (?) working(?) bloke (?), and have nothing against others. I couldn't give a monkeys re the 'professional' tag. I also feel valued in my job, probably more so than I did in the uk. My point is that if any one sector of society feels over represented, those not in that group feel a bit dislocated, excluded maybe. You could take anything as an example, but in this case it 'feels' like everyone is a tradie or hairdresser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest32776 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I hold nothing against the blue collar/tradie sector (well, not since my booze-fuelled younger wilder days). In fact , in London I've dealt with some very professional, hardworking and reasonably priced tradesmen - from Poland for the main part - as they turn up on time, don't try and fleece you or leave fag butts and food round your house. What gets me is that I don't see what harm there would be in Australia encouraging a bit more higher education and intellectual pursuit - where is the cutting edge research and development, its space programme, the throbbing quick fire political debate or a vibrant literacy scene? For a country whose only wealth is based on the hauling out of coal and iron ore I'm willing to wager that the much needed 'carbon capture' technology (if we are to prevent the overheating of the earth) , just ain't gonna be an Aussie invention! I get the impression (at risk of a sweeping generalisation) that cultural aspiration here involves giving up on education at the age of 16, and, as the government makes disinterested kids waste another 2 years at school - undertake the path of least resistance at TAFE - maybe pastry chef (how the heck can that take two years!!) ... preggars by 20 - have 4 or 5 kids - and class good times as a bbq on the beach, holding a fishing rod sat in a tinny, or the receipt of a (bizarrely motivated) baby bonus/stimulus package from the government. I don't hold anything against these people - but I do think it is healthy to have them as a minority not a majority - overseas travel, a fulfilling career, engaging in arts and literature, speaking other languages are all a significant part of life in my extremely humble opinion.... I'm not even suggesting that being a tradie and travel, arts and literature etc are mutually exclusive - they are not. I've met loads of marine mechanics sailing around the world (they can pick up work in each port as engines invariably break). However, I do think without inspiring kids at school to find awe in the world by placing an emphasis on geography , history, literature etc rather than sandwich making and hairdressing, we are stealing from the futures they may have had... (Sh7t! Apologies, I had a Daily Mail moment there!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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