General Discussion on George Lombard's report 31st May 2010

[George Lombard]

Summary from DIAC Exposition on Skilled Migration Changes Sydney 31 May

 

Key presenters are Peter Speldewinde and Katherine Whitehead.

 

General Skilled Migration

 

Overall the framework will be relatively unchanged, ie on 1 July there will be a SOL and a new list of occupations sponsored by the states which will be as broad as the ENSOL but no broader and most likely half way between the old SOL and the new SOL.

 

There will be no new points test until the end of the year, if at all, and equally no capping and ceasing if at all until then. The use of the capping and ceasing power will be more likely if there is another economic downturn.

 

Future changes will most likely not be telegraphed - they explained that in the month before the September 2007 changes there were 32000 offshore applications instead of the usual 6500 - apparently most of them in unwanted occupations. Therefore the suspension of offshore GSM applications on 8 May was to avoid a "spike" in an otherwise bloated program. So best to apply when eligible as DIAC is capable of implementing a freeze without notice, particularly while they've got an oversupply of applications.

 

The new SOL will have some minor alterations as Skills Australia used the unrevised version of ANZSCO - must have been some red faces over that one, but there will be no substantive changes to the new SOL as published on 17 May.

 

All pre-September 2007 applications all about to be ceased as announced in February; such applicants, if they have valid skills assessments, are of course entitled to lodge a second application funded by the refunds they will receive.

 

The cap and cease legislation is still a Bill - that is, an unenacted legislative proposal not yet with the force of law - and while it does sound as though the legislation will be enacted, and implementation will be determined according to occupation, English and age criteria, there was no indication that it would actually be applied to any particular category of existing applications unless there was some sort of economic downturn. No mention at all of cooks and hairdressers today.

 

Clear that they're going to reduce overall GSM numbers anyway. Apparently the alternative - employer sponsored visas - require less verification because employers want to avoid the sanctions for misfeasance and are subject to other government controls in any event.

 

Changes to the ENSOL and 457 occupation lists will be direct translations to ANZSCO at this stage with no substantive changes. The Department will issue a "convergence" or "concordance" list confirming ASCO equivalencies.

 

Pre-July skills assessments will remain valid depending on the convergence/concordance list and relevant eligibility list, eg new SOL or ENSOL.

 

There will be a revised Ministerial direction concerning the priorities to be applied in General Skilled Migration but no details were provided.

 

 

ENS/RSMS.

 

There is a current ENS/RSMS Review. Issues include English language, market salaries, exceptional circumstances, regional occupation list, Worker Protection Act framework etc. Timing currently not determined. Interesting 457 statistics were presented (being distributed separately) which will apparently inform planned ENS developments as well as future 457 reforms. Looking at sponsor accreditation, registered employment authorities (replacing regional certifying bodies) and training benchmarks (still unresolved - "some way off").

 

 

Labour Agreements

 

Clear now that semi-skilled applicants (ASCO chapters 5-7) are only able to go through Labour Agreements.

 

DIAC is now generating template industry agreements for the Labour Agreement visas - eg snow industry workers, bilingual tour guides, mining operations, meat industry - for employers to "sign up to". This, and other procedural reforms, should make the process of compliance easier.

 

 

State Migration Plans

 

Plans will specify the occupations and the number for each occupation. DIAC is verifying each state's methodology for determining occupations and numbers. Only occupations on the ENSOL can be on an SMP. And according to Katherine earlier, the ENSOL won't change yet. Says that the SMPs are not the solution to a state having negative demographic growth. Many states have higher language, experience and other requirements than DIAC requirements. Each state will have 100 "off-plan" places (but still no broader than ENSOL). The plans will be four-year rolling plans reviewed annually. Expecting a reasonable amount of stability.

 

Answering questions Peter Speldewinde suggests that we may one day see the end of GSM for independent (unsponsored) applicants.

 

 

ANZSCO Concordance

 

Confirms that all DIAC systems now going to ANZSCO. Mentions that occupations in ANZSCO Major Groups 1-3 are "skilled". Will post the "convergence/concordance" on their website. Accepting ASCO skills assessments for GSM as long as the occupation is in the new SOL, according to the concordance".

 

Cheers,

 

George Lombard

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi George

 

I have taken the liberty of copying your summary into a new thread because I am sure that our members will have questions and comments.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Hi All

 

Please do NOT post your queries and comments in the "Agents Only" thread. The Agents want to keep that thread for themselves alone, not to be snooty or anything but so that anybody can look at the Agents Only thread to find the comments they are looking for quickly. What happens otherwise is that an Agent says something and then you get six pages of questions and comments. It becomes impossible for the next person to find what the Agent actually said in the first place.

 

This thread is for everybody else's queries and comments instead. Please feel free to say whatever you like in this thread (including cursing me if you wish!)

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[kellyjamie]

it seems fairly clear that employer sponsored visas are going to be the way to go, BUT what concerns with this is how DIAC are going to inform the thousands of prospective employers that they can in fact employ and sponsor migrants, also will they make it straight forward for them? We have been trying now since september to secure an employer and in all honesty ive lost count how many times we stayed up and called, or emailed to be told "no we dont sponsor but defo call us when you land" or just had no answer at all. I think we had 3 positive responses Gold Coast Council who really in all honesty wanted to employ Jamie but were told by theri HR dep that too many local equally qualified people applied so they counld not justify sponsoring us. The second was in West Wyalong again happy to sponsor but they had 2 other locals apply and the third in Brisbane. But all to no avail.

We were advised by an agent that as we are already assessed positively and for us its a case of finding an employer we should consider the student visa so we are in the country and hopefully Jamie may get sponsored that way?

 

my heads feeling slightly pickled, god knows how you manage George and Gill:wacko:

[Guest Wannabeoz]

Good point, every employer I've ever approached sees sponsoring as too much hassle, even though I can do the job, and have Australian experience!

 

On another point, I don't suppose there was any indication whether state sponsored applicants would have to reapply to be on a SMP, or if people with sponsorship would get automatically transferred if their occupation is on the list?

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

I'm pretty confident about the new points test, it will be announced sooner than as mentioned by George

 

They will not announce the new points test in advance. They will not make the mistake they did back in 2007

 

 

One morning we will wake up and see the new points test is already implemented

That is what they will do

 

As soon the minister gets the Cap and Kill powers, he will axe the pre September applicants first thing in the morning. (even I believe he will chop off all the applications of the professions that he is allergic to like cooks, hairdressers, chefs etc.)

 

I didn't mean to heart anyone, just my .02 cents.

 

I wish the bill never gets approved and they should finalize the cases of Pre September 2007 applicants on priority basis, as they been waiting for almost 3 years now and they deserve it more than anyone else.

[Guest Klaus]

There will be no new points test until the end of the year, if at all, and equally no capping and ceasing if at all until then.

Do they mean financial year or calendar year?

[User Name]

I wish the bill never gets approved and they should finalize the cases of Pre September 2007 applicants on priority basis, as they been waiting for almost 3 years now and they deserve it more than anyone else.

 

I doubt anyone in Australia will lose a sleep over this bill. People are more worried about refugees and assylum seekers than who gets chopped off the list.

 

It'll probably be one of the bills that gets passed easily. Opposition will like it because it'll help achieve their "population cap" in a way.

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

No employer is willing to get involved in the mess to sponsor someone who is out of the country. To sponsor someone means you select and finalize the candidate and then sponsor and stick with that candidate.

 

All the employers want a pool of applicants, from which they can select the most suitable candidate.

 

Statistics show that under Employer Sponsored category, more than 90% applications are from Onshore applicants, which includes the temporary workers, some students, WHV etc. generally anyone who has worked for a particular employer for some time. The rest 10% offshore applicants sponsored by employers are high profile professionals in health care, mining, top management related people etc.

 

I believe employer sponsored is not the way to go specially for the states with real shortage of skilled workers

 

An extract from migration statistics report for year 2008-09. Just check out the employer sponsored category and percentage of Onshore/Offshore applications.

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

I doubt anyone in Australia will lose a sleep over this bill. People are more worried about refugees and assylum seekers than who gets chopped off the list.

 

It'll probably be one of the bills that gets passed easily. Opposition will like it because it'll help achieve their "population cap" in a way.

 

That was just an innocent wish, otherwise as I mentioned the minister will not wait a second to use the powers once he gets it and will probably have a sleepless night waiting for the start of the day to issue the orders to cap and kill the applications:arghh:.

[ramot]

I actually disagree about this. I have emailed at least 20 Australian friends today and will add more tomorrow. They are all horrified at this possible bill, and am heartened by how many of them have already lodged a protest. Some are also contacting their Federal MP. I would like to think that the more Australians who protest, the better, so spread the word among every one you know. It might just help.

[ramot]

Sorry was replying to User name, just in case my post seemed odd.

[Guest Bootco]

Good point, every employer I've ever approached sees sponsoring as too much hassle, even though I can do the job, and have Australian experience!

 

On another point, I don't suppose there was any indication whether state sponsored applicants would have to reapply to be on a SMP, or if people with sponsorship would get automatically transferred if their occupation is on the list?

 

 

Can anyone please comment on this last paragraph which I'm sure is pertinent to many.

[User Name]

Minister has issues with 2 groups of people. Group 1 is hairdresser and chefs , the unwanted skilled migrants and group 2 are parents and eldery dependants.

 

When he hits group 1 with his bill (when it becomes law), its not going to raise any eyebrows. As I said, people in Australia only associate immigration with refugee dealing, lot of them (ones born here) barely know what GSM is in first place.

 

Unless the onshore ones do a big protest, it will hardly make it to the news like the culling of pre-2007 applications and be forgotten easily.

 

Whats tricky for the minister is group 2. Lot of the people in the parent visa classes are people whose children are Australian citizens some are long established here. He cant touch those without a strong backlash. So he might just postpone the processing or do something stupid like take no further applications.

[User Name]

I actually disagree about this. I have emailed at least 20 Australian friends today and will add more tomorrow.

 

By all means I hope you are right. I dont like this bill but to be brutally honest the ones that are horrified are the ones that might be affected (many of whom are offshore).

 

KRudd is under heavy pressure with boat people. He needs to do something to impress his critics, especially with oppositions got tougher immigration policy. There are bigger news going on such as mining tax and some pacific solution, and all these events are sweeping the bill under the carpet.

 

Even in the face of stiff criticism, it is quite likely that Chris Evans will weasel his way out with the bills. Opposition wont complain, their stance is more draconian if anything, and I am sure KRudd already gave his blessings with it.

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

New points test delayed till the end of the year means very less number of applications. Another tactic to gain time and get rid of the backlog.

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

Do they mean financial year or calendar year?

 

I wish it was by the end of financial year but unfortunately it is clear from the George's post they are talking about by the end of this year which means another 6 months.:arghh:

[Guest apples]

All pre-Se

ptember 2007 applications all about to be ceased as announced in February; such applicants, if they have valid skills assessments, are of course entitled to lodge a second application funded by the refunds they will receive.

 

Hi George,gill & friends

 

I am really frustrated now by looking at new changes happening in this migration process as passing bill in the parliment to cap & cease visas.Iam a IT professional who applied in august 2007 & still waiting after even completing job verification in jan 2009 . Iam concerned whether i will be affected after waiting for 3 years.I was thinking that only chefs & hairdresser of preseptember 2007 applicants will be chopped,Now iam worried whether it applies to all applicants. My occupation is there in the new SOL

261311 -Analyst programmer

 

Can any expertise plz let me know what will happen to my case as my occupation is on the SOL as well ,will they intend to chop my application as well?why are they mentioning now that all pre september 2007 to be ceased .Previously i remember that they mentioned only 6000 applicants are to be capped in the preseptember 2007 list,now what are they talking about.I lost even the little hope that i had that i thought my application will be looked in the July .Now iam lost.Plz plz george,Gill or anyone plz let me know your opinion.

[suters]

Minister has issues with 2 groups of people. Group 1 is hairdresser and chefs , the unwanted skilled migrants and group 2 are parents and eldery dependants.

 

When he hits group 1 with his bill (when it becomes law), its not going to raise any eyebrows. As I said, people in Australia only associate immigration with refugee dealing, lot of them (ones born here) barely know what GSM is in first place.

 

Unless the onshore ones do a big protest, it will hardly make it to the news like the culling of pre-2007 applications and be forgotten easily.

 

Whats tricky for the minister is group 2. Lot of the people in the parent visa classes are people whose children are Australian citizens some are long established here. He cant touch those without a strong backlash. So he might just postpone the processing or do something stupid like take no further applications.

so what happens to those f us who have SS then and why is he so allergic to chefs and hairdressers when states want us when they give the SS so confusing

[Robbo25]

Am I reading this right, that they are going to be moving the ANZSCO criteria for occupations, therefore if it states that experience may substitute for formal qualifactions then a skills assessment may be enough?

[jools123]

By all means I hope you are right. I dont like this bill but to be brutally honest the ones that are horrified are the ones that might be affected (many of whom are offshore).

 

of course we are horrified it effects our lives have you not been reading op posts.....

its always ok when it does not effect you.......

and i for one am sick of people saying the only ones effected will be hairdressers and cooks as if we are minor and it doesent matter...

it does matter..... when i applied i was in demand thats what matters if its not in demand now dont take anymore applications(sorry to prospective applications but at least you dont lose sleep and money being led down the garden path). I have never been unemployed as a hairdresser nor would i be in oz good hairdressers are allways needed:mad:

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

Am I reading this right, that they are going to be moving the ANZSCO criteria for occupations, therefore if it states that experience may substitute for formal qualifactions then a skills assessment may be enough?

 

Not necessarily, it depends on the criteria set out by assessing authority. It used to be like this for some occupations under ASCO as well, but assessing authorities decides and set the minimum criteria like qualifications, experience, IELTS score to consider and assess someone positively for migration purpose.

[Rubab]

There will be no new points test until the end of the year, if at all, and equally no capping and ceasing if at all until then. The use of the capping and ceasing power will be more likely if there is another economic downturn.

 

 

What end of this year exactly meant here? Does it mean 31st June 2010 or 31st June 2011?

[Guest Klaus]

What end of this year exactly meant here? Does it mean 31st June 2010 or 31st June 2011?

Or 31st December 2010?

[Farrukh Zeeshan]

What end of this year exactly meant here? Does it mean 31st June 2010 or 31st June 2011?

 

OMG it will never be announced this way, unless and until they change the calendar and June has 31 days in it:biglaugh:

[Rubab]

OMG it will never be announced this way, unless and until they change the calendar and June has 31 days in it:biglaugh:

 

I'm sorry, My mistake :laugh:

 

The question will be like : Does the "end of this year" mean 30th June, 2010 or 31st Dec 2010 or 30th June 2011?