future of the student route

[kellyjamie]

hi all,

im just sitting mulling things over and wondered if you would give your opinions on what the future holds for the student route?

is it stll going to be a viable option? if so what will be the most obvious courses?

 

im really unsure as its worth so much to the oz economy it doesnt make sense to cut its link to pr all together but clearly it needs tighten up?

 

opinions?:idea:

cheers k

[matjones]

hi all,

im just sitting mulling things over and wondered if you would give your opinions on what the future holds for the student route?

is it stll going to be a viable option? if so what will be the most obvious courses?

 

im really unsure as its worth so much to the oz economy it doesnt make sense to cut its link to pr all together but clearly it needs tighten up?

 

opinions?:idea:

cheers k

 

Your question highlights the previous problems with the student visa. You ask 'what will be the most obvious course?'. The government wants potential students to no longer ask that question. They want you to go to Australia, to study what you want to study, because you have a desire to work in that profession. The recent changes to the student visa program make it more difficult to get your PR, but not impossible. Ideally they want you to try and find Employer Sponsorship upon completion of your course. Once you have sponsorship, there are various pathways for PR. This is one of the smartest moves the government has made. It forces people to actually work in their chosen profession.

[StevieF8]

if so what will be the most obvious courses?

 

 

I agree with whats been said above.........,

 

but I would say that the courses I would look at would be leading to jobs on the critical shortage list

[matjones]

I agree with whats been said above.........,

 

but I would say that the courses I would look at would be leading to jobs on the critical shortage list

 

I would say don't even bother with the student route if your mindset is that of just doing it to get a PR visa.

[Guest zoeandcraig]

hi kelly

 

we are also looking to go on a student visa. we were advised last year that the comercial cookery course was a good and viable one!! however, as you,re probably aware things are changing at the moment and we're awaiting the new 'list' that is apparently going to appear any time soon. Someone suggested going on a business visa?? something to consider maybe.

Zoe

[kellyjamie]

thanks guys,

matjones i totally agree it is the smartest move theyve made but i laso feel for the "honest students" who have picked a subject because they want to be in that profession. for us we were all set to go this july to study welfare worker as that is what my hubby does here but we needed they qual to apply our form was in we had been offered a place then it all changed and no can do! we had done a good amount of research in to it all we were registered with agencies for welfare work during the term time and the holidays, schools due to the fees, and then rug pulled. we were aware of the new changes abot to happen but we expected welfare to stay on the new list, now not so sure and even it is the student option prob isnt an option now so yes i agree the student route desperately needed tightened up but its been at the expense of the honest students. for us we know must obtain employer sponsorship before the new sol comes in as theres no chance of us being on the new list.

cheers guys i reckon i,ll still be on here in 5 years trying to move to oz!:sad:

[User Name]

Its really hard to predict what will be in the skill shortage list 2 or 3 years from now (when you finish your studies, should you take that path).

 

To give a simple answer to your question, the student path is very restricted and there is no prospect of govt easing it. Way too many people taking that route.

 

My suggestion is try to avoid your future based on PR. Trust me I am seeing many people around whose life is probably nearly ruined because they tried to shortcut their path to PR.

 

I worked at a supermarket while studying for my degree. There are many Nepali and Indians who did cookery and hairdressing just to get PR quickly. There was even one of those dodgy colleges near my work. I was probably the only international student out of say 10-15 of such people who went to good uni and finished a degree. The result was I am going to apply for PR tomorrow while many of this guys are getting screwed up by TRA or whoever does their skill assessments.

 

Lot of these people are not from rich background and many borrowed heavily from friends and family to study here. Now many face the prospect of flying home severely indebted financially. Its not a pretty sight trust me.

 

I am not saying you fall in that category but its a big waste of money if (when you finish your studies) and you cant apply coz your profession doesnt exist in new SOL or whatever list that comes up 2/3 years from now. Its bit of a gamble really.

 

The point I am trying to make across with this example is that, the easy way is not always the best way. Eventually all student route (whether you are a Monash or from a dodgy college) will be very very restricted and emphasis will be heavily on skill migrant with extensive experience.

 

I personally think I am one of the last batches of graduate PR holders if I get it.

 

So its not a wise idea to study just for PR.

[Guest Tranquility]

thanks guys,

matjones i totally agree it is the smartest move theyve made but i laso feel for the "honest students" who have picked a subject because they want to be in that profession. for us we were all set to go this july to study welfare worker as that is what my hubby does here but we needed they qual to apply our form was in we had been offered a place then it all changed and no can do! we had done a good amount of research in to it all we were registered with agencies for welfare work during the term time and the holidays, schools due to the fees, and then rug pulled. we were aware of the new changes abot to happen but we expected welfare to stay on the new list, now not so sure and even it is the student option prob isnt an option now so yes i agree the student route desperately needed tightened up but its been at the expense of the honest students. for us we know must obtain employer sponsorship before the new sol comes in as theres no chance of us being on the new list.

cheers guys i reckon i,ll still be on here in 5 years trying to move to oz!:sad:

 

i'm in that situation, i'll be finishing on november, doing a bachelor in IT. before i went here, i had a job as an IT tech support for MSN hotmail. my sis who's a citizen in Oz rang one day and told me i'm better off in Oz. i'm still working my way up in my field that time and i wouldn't be qualified for other visas so my sis thought of getting a student visa for me instead to study IT. she couldn't wait for me to get proper work experience since she wants to take mom and dad next once i get my PR. my 2 bros are not capable of supporting them, they can't even look after their own families so even if it's very difficult for me to leave my parents behind, i had to do it thinking we'd be able to sponsor them to get here when everything goes to plan. they're both pensioners in their 70s (dad) and 60s (mom), we want to give them a better life, my bros are causing them a lot of heart ache which they don't deserve. i took IT because i know i really want to work in this field, i was even planning to get all my microsoft and cisco certs after uni to improve my marketability.

 

i was lucky to get a job in UWS (univ of western sydney) as a helpdesk analyst whilst on a student visa. i've been told that that's where most of the people higher than me started, a few of the guys who was working there 2 years ago are now desktop, network and telecomms engineers. the manager interviewed me and offered me a job the same day. i was working full time the 1st few months because it was my uni break then i told her that i can only do 20 hours after the break, she was happy for me to stay since i've been doing a good job and i was getting good stats. we have a good team, my workmates are as supportive as my manager, we back each other up all the time.

 

i never cheated the system, i was following all the rules, i didn't want to get into trouble since i was doing all this for myself and for mom and dad. if i really want to, i could've taken hospitality and be a cook, but i don't really see myself doing that in the long run. i want to be in IT.

 

now with the dreaded SOL changes this month, i'm not sure where i stand. :cry: i would be devastated if i had to go home. i started supporting myself and paying all my tuition fees by myself when i got my job in UWS since i was getting enough (they gave me a good salary package which i wouldn't get anywhere). my sis has a family and i don't really want to burden her with the expensive fees that i had to pay every semester. as you all know, the student visa route is an expensive route and i had to make so many sacrifices to get where i am now. i even had to do 3 cash on hand jobs before so i would have enough allowance for uni. most people don't realise what we go through. i've read some people saying we are buying our way into PR and it's not fair for most people who have proper experience. well, if it's the only option that you can do in order to get a better life, wouldn't you take it too?

 

so i'm hoping for the best. i'm trying to convince myself that if i had to head home, it wouldn't be so bad, after all, mom and dad would be there waiting for me.

[Pumpkin]

The students already in Australia have vertainly had the goal posts moved quite dramatically in the last 12 months and many are struggling with the uncertainty ahead.

 

I don't think I would consider embarking on the student route at this point, it would seem far more sensible to obtain a qualification in a profession that is of genuine interest at home and then apply as a skilled migrant later. The main factor behind my reasoning is financial, however if money is no object for somebody else then that would be different.

[mandymcqueen]

I agree with everyone, dont take the student route thinking it is an easy option because it isnt, we have done this and are now facing the harsh reality of going home after 2 years. to be honest though I cant suggest any "safe" options as immigration are changing the system and rules left right and centre.

[ramot]

Good post, hope it will make people realise that there are many genuine international students, who have worked hard to gain Australian qualifications, who were originally being encouraged by the government to study here as a genuine route to PR. Now possibly going to be rejected after paying out thousands of dollars, because of the changes. The government should have acted much sooner to get rid of the dodgy colleges who were abusing the system, it wasn't the genuine students fault, but many of them will be the losers.

I'm not sure, but I think it's hard to be sponsered for a job onshore, I think you now have to have been employed for 3 years, and not many employers are interested if you are on a bridging visa to employ you in the first place. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me.

It's also not easy to get the 120 pts for PR as apart from a few occupations eg accountants, hairdressers most jobs are only worth 50 pts after study, so apart from these, lots of students only qualify for the 485 graduate 18 month visa, so to then be eligible, have to work for 1 year to gain 10 necessary points for work experience before applying.

Studying in Australia really doesn't automatically qualify you for instant PR.

[kellyjamie]

were no longer considering this option it was always going to be our very last option but with all we know the minister is adamant he will rule out student = PR we know this isnt going to be viable anymore. were now waiting with baited breathe for the new sol and see what comes of that, tho i dont hold much hope

[mandymcqueen]

Sorry to hear that but I think you are doing the right thing, given another chance we would never have taken the risk we did, given up everything we had, spent all our savings only to be told we will have to go back, but had we done it 6 months earlier we wouldnt be in this situation.

 

What is your occupation you are trying to get sponsorship for???

[User Name]

The government should have acted much sooner to get rid of the dodgy colleges who were abusing the system, it wasn't the genuine students fault, but many of them will be the losers.

 

Govt shouldnt have let it sprung up in first place. That is a major screw up of Rudd Govt and more precisely Julia Gillard.

 

Lets put the PR factor out for a second. These students of dodgy colleges paid thousands to study whatever they chose to from accounting to making pastries. They have EVERY right to receive a decent training/education in their course whether or not they get PR.

 

Fair enough they have other agendas but end of the day they never got what they paid for. Lot of these people are going back to India, Nepal and China and wouldnt even get a job in restaurants and hotels in their own country because they know nothing!

 

Unfortunately the victims here are bunch of foreigners and guess what? They dont vote!

 

An average Australian who is obliged to vote under Australia's voting law couldnt care less about the quality of education of international students (but lets keep their money!). Hence Julia Gillard doesnt have to answer to these people when several months ago there was a huge drama when these dodgy colleges starting falling like dominoes.

 

On top of that she and the PM had the audacity to send "delegates" to India defend Australia's reputation in education sector.

 

If there were dodgy private school ripping off Aussie students there would be a massive riot and this education minister would have hung her head in shame and quit politics.

[StevieF8]

Well there are a couple of simple solutions to the college problem, but they may be after the horse has bolted...

 

1 - Only allow student visas for university courses - therefore stopping people going to these 'fake' / dodgy colleges

or

2 - Create some jobs by employing assessors to go to these colleges on a regular basis and assess the quality of the courses being offered and make sure they are up to standard and if not take them off the list of colleges that can be used for International student visas

[matjones]

matjones i totally agree it is the smartest move theyve made but i laso feel for the "honest students" who have picked a subject because they want to be in that profession.

 

The ones who actually want to be in the profession are the ones who are in the best position to gain PR from their student visa. They will have shown dedication to their chosen field, and should be educated enough to pass any skills assessments, and potentially land themselves a job in AU. They will just have to take a slightly modified route.

 

There were 5 major problems with the student visa system:

 

- greedy 'sham' colleges who had no intention of educating their students.

- students who had no intention of working in their field

- lack of government oversight of educational institutions

- the existence of the 175/176 visas which do not require you to have a job lined up, or to work in the field you selected on your visa app.

- promotion of student visas as a pathway to PR by Gov & Migration Agencies

 

The purpose of a student visa should solely be to gain an education, and NOT as pathway to migration. The confluence of events listed above created a system ripe for rorting. Some people like to blame the government, but frankly I like to hold all parties accountable. The only people I have some sympathy for are those legitimate students, however, I still feel they are in the best position, as well educated individuals, to eventually make it down under.

[kellyjamie]

hubbys job is welfare worker but had to be assessed as youth worker as our qualification wasnt high enough for welfare worker, either way wont matter now as i beleive welfare worker will be off the list anyhow:sad:

[Guest brownfamily]

My apologies as I have not posted for a year or so, but felt that I needed to post a reply to this thread:wink:

 

My family (me OH & two kids now 16 and 13) came over to Oz three years ago now on a student visa, with OH studying bricklaying at TAFE. To cut a very long story short OH did do some bricklaying in England but didn't have qualification/recent work exp so we couldn't take the PR route at that time.

 

 

 

OH was fast tracked at TAFE and completed his course in 16 months (not a day less!) However, since being in Oz the goalposts have moved several times:

 

• Had to do 900 hours 'vocational experience'
  
• Had to do 440 hours in addition to this as 'work experience' and part of the course
  
• To gain enough points for PR OH had to do an additional years work experience (along with associated proof/paperwork/references etc)
  
• Had to apply for graduate visa in order to gain 12 months work experience (delay in processing this visa meant that we were paying school fees longer for each child - $8,000 per child per year)
  
• FIRB rules changed - we bought our house when you needed FIRB approval and had to jump through all of those hoops!
  

I managed to find work relatively easily and have been working part-time at the same private school (in admin) for the last 2 years.

 

OH is still bricklaying and has worked for the same guy now for 6 months, which is good.

 

What I wanted to say is that for us there was no other viable option at the time and although a risk, nowhere near the risk that a student visa would be now. I have to be honest and say that we love our life in Oz and we are all very settled, but we would not take the student visa route now as it is a whole different ball game.

 

Also, I realise that some of the immigration rules need to change to keep up with the times etc, but what I definately do not agree with is that it affects those students already studying......it should apply to those that apply after the rules have changed!

 

Our PR application was put in 6 months ago and we are just waiting (along with thousands of other in CAT 6 - MODL but no CSL).

 

Good luck to all other 'students'.....my heart goes out to you all as we know how hard that journey has been.

 

Heather

xxxx

[mandymcqueen]

I fully understand what people are saying that it is never guaranteed pathway to PR but about 3 years ago I attended an Oz expo in Edinburgh, which was arranged by Oz government, with people telling us that they are desperate for hairdressers and that there would be no problems with gaining PR, I know that it isnt guaranteed but, surely these expo's, which I believe are still happening, shouldnt be advising people of this for the government to then move the goal posts.

 

Like I say I understand as there are many that do it then never work in that profession, but people who have completed study or are in the middle of it are now left with not many options and the prospect of spending thousands of dollars more to get answers.

[Purple Princess]

The ones who actually want to be in the profession are the ones who are in the best position to gain PR from their student visa. They will have shown dedication to their chosen field, and should be educated enough to pass any skills assessments, and potentially land themselves a job in AU. They will just have to take a slightly modified route.

 

There were 5 major problems with the student visa system:

 

- greedy 'sham' colleges who had no intention of educating their students.

- students who had no intention of working in their field

- lack of government oversight of educational institutions

- the existence of the 175/176 visas which do not require you to have a job lined up, or to work in the field you selected on your visa app.

- promotion of student visas as a pathway to PR by Gov & Migration Agencies

 

The purpose of a student visa should solely be to gain an education, and NOT as pathway to migration. The confluence of events listed above created a system ripe for rorting. Some people like to blame the government, but frankly I like to hold all parties accountable. The only people I have some sympathy for are those legitimate students, however, I still feel they are in the best position, as well educated individuals, to eventually make it down under.

 

As a student myself, spending loads of $$$ and hubby paying tax on income, I still agree fully with what you've said. My opinion, (and it is only my opinion) is only study in an area that you want to work in, a degree is hard enough without speding 3+ years studying something you are not interested in.

 

I think immi appear to be going down the sponsorship route, due to PR visa's being granted and people not working in their chosen profession, either because they can't find work in that area, or find that the salaries here are generally far lower than in the UK, therefore try to find an income that is comparable to maintain their standard of living over here.

 

I decided to go via the student route for 2 reasons, firstly, I was not qualified enough to get here with my job, and I didn't want to do that job here anyway. and secondly we looked into Uni in the UK, however, with mortgage/bills etc, the cost was virtually the same as I would have had to give up my job.

 

The benefit for me is that I'm doing what I should have done 21 years ago, and I'm doing the degree that I've always wanted to do. Personal circumstances dictated 21 years ago, that I couldn't go to Uni then....long story.....

 

If we have to leave at the end of my degree, which we don't want to do, then I will at least go back to the UK, and find a job in the area that I'm studying for and love. Also it is a big world, we will not rule out emigrating somewhere else if we cannot make Australia our home.

 

You have to be very open minded when going down this route.

 

Steph

xxxx

[Guest brownfamily]

I fully understand what people are saying that it is never guaranteed pathway to PR but about 3 years ago I attended an Oz expo in Edinburgh, which was arranged by Oz government, with people telling us that they are desperate for hairdressers and that there would be no problems with gaining PR, I know that it isnt guaranteed but, surely these expo's, which I believe are still happening, shouldnt be advising people of this for the government to then move the goal posts.

 

Like I say I understand as there are many that do it then never work in that profession, but people who have completed study or are in the middle of it are now left with not many options and the prospect of spending thousands of dollars more to get answers.

 

Hi Mandy,

 

I really do feel for you. We went to one of those expo's too and were told similar things. The point I was trying to make earlier is that, if there are going to be Immi changes then those changes should only appy to students that have not yet started their course (not the ones that are enrolled and have already started). :wacko:

 

To be honest though, with the Immi changes that keep happening anything could happen!

 

Heather

[Guest Durathor]

I have to say that it the changes in the rules have been accompanied by a remarkable piece of spin.

 

The Australian government created the route by which PR could be obtained. The Australian government in tandem with the schools industry actively promoted and encouraged the scheme worldwide as a route to PR.

 

The Australian government happily accepted the money from students, the taxes paid and absorbed the benefits to the economy of an industry that generated up to $20 billion a year.

 

The Australian government deregulated the industry to allow Australian citizens benefit from ripping off impoverished students in sham universities.

 

The Australian government are happy to continue to accept visa applications and the accompanying $1000's of dollars and refuse to return the money despite having little or no intention of processing the visa.

 

It is no surprise to learn that the victims of this government sponsored sting are some the most vunerable and poorest members of society. Many of whom, and their families, have made great sacrifices to come to Australia.

 

Somehow the Australian government have managed to convince people that those pesky ethnics and their conniving ways have only themselves to blame.

 

Every time I go into restaurants I am always struck by the fact that all the kitchens are populated by Indians and other ethnic minorities. They drive the buses and taxi's. They are behind the late night petrol station bullet proof glass. They have also suffered appalling violence towards them.

 

I would be interested to see how many claim benefits. Not many I would guess.

 

I think the treatment of them by this government, and the attitude of the Australian people in general towards them, has been shameful.

[Guest adrianyts]

As recent graduate student, I didnt realize the existence of sham university in Australia until i read this forum post. I am shocked by the news that people are just interested in studying for PR reasons and not contributing back to the country with their talent. I am left speechless of their selfish act.

 

Thus, there are genuine student that are willing to take up a qualification needed by the Australia work force. These students are genuine to contribute back to the economy of this country by being a professional. I hope the government realize this fact through the new SOL list which allow PR as a reward of their honesty and determination.

 

However,due to such selfish acts, the government have lost trust in the student route and increase the difficulty in the point system as well as making genuine professional students dragged into the system.

 

I am sure there are students out there that are willing to commit to be a professional and I have lost respect to those that are not willing to contribute positively.

[kellyjamie]

i find it all a tad bizarre to be honest. i read the report by skills australia submitted to the gov for the new sol, in it it clearly states they believe that Australia must along side skilled migration, ensure they train people higly enough through education. It clearly says that the gov need to continue to spend money educating people to ensure they have a skilled workforce, now in my opinion and only just that, they must see the connection to foreign students as the oz population is not large enough to sustain the size of skilled work force that they predict they will need with their growing population, so its swings and roundabouts is it not? i reckon they would be crazy to cut the student=pr route, i think it needs tighten not cut?

 

Australia openly states it relies quite largely although not solely on skilled migration to boost the population and workplace but they will not obtain all of that on pre skilled migrants alone will they?

 

god knows im just thinking out loud, as i said its the honest students i feel for as the dodgy ones along with their dodgy quick buck colleges and no doubt slightly shady agents have meant that the few have to suffer because of the majority, and were in that boat we are honest we wanted to give all our savings to australia to study a proffesion we actually want to be in to contribute to their economy and to just live our lives but sadly that does not appear to be an option any longer:no:

[User Name]

I fully understand what people are saying that it is never guaranteed pathway to PR but about 3 years ago I attended an Oz expo in Edinburgh, which was arranged by Oz government, with people telling us that they are desperate for hairdressers and that there would be no problems with gaining PR, I know that it isnt guaranteed but, surely these expo's, which I believe are still happening, shouldnt be advising people of this for the government to then move the goal posts.

 

Like I say I understand as there are many that do it then never work in that profession, but people who have completed study or are in the middle of it are now left with not many options and the prospect of spending thousands of dollars more to get answers.

 

It's supply and demand. At the time you went there was a genuine demand and I am sure there is still demand for hairdresser. Problem is that 80-90% never ended up being hairdressers.

 

What govt wanted was to give haidressers PR not people who studied hairdressing and did something else. Coz that govt wanted one thing and got something else.

 

Govt is not against students getting PR, they are against people switching their career. End of the day skilled migration is all about meeting the skill shortage of the country. Gone are the days when any one from any profession was welcome.

 

Its a bit like hiring in a company. You get someone for their skills and once you hire them you obviously wouldn't want them doing something totally different for what you hired them for.