Emigrating with UK debt

[basil]

You say that ignorance on the part of borrowers is no excuse. Bear in mind that the bulk of these loans were to borrowers in lower socio-economic groups who didn't have the financial sophistication to realise what they were getting into and relied upon the professional advice of mortgage lenders like Fannie Mae to act ethically.

 

 

 

I know, I'm harsh, I just don't see it as all the banks fault though. People need to take responsibility for their choices and actions.

We're not talking about elderly and senile or mentally incabable being harrassed into purchase of something on their own doorstep. We're talking about people who chose to buy a home and approach a mortgage lender themselves.

 

 

I do have sympathy for people who's circumstances change and find themselves in finacial hardship. I do think it was wrong for banks to have offered the amounts and on the terms they did, I just hate the nanny state thing where people can't accept their own mess ups from ignorance and look to blame others when they could have just done a little homework like the vast majority of the poulation do.

[Swannie]

I know, I'm harsh, I just don't see it as all the banks fault though. People need to take responsibility for their choices and actions.

We're not talking about elderly and senile or mentally incabable being harrassed into purchase of something on their own doorstep. We're talking about people who chose to buy a home and approach a mortgage lender themselves.

 

 

I do have sympathy for people who's circumstances change and find themselves in finacial hardship. I do think it was wrong for banks to have offered the amounts and on the terms they did, I just hate the nanny state thing where people can't accept their own mess ups from ignorance and look to blame others when they could have just done a little homework like the vast majority of the poulation do.

 

Thats a very naive attitude to have. The banks are past masters at hard sell, they know how to pull on the strings, know how to play the system better than anyone. Banks specifically target certain people. My other half has never one day in her life had an overdraft, she has never needed on, and never needed to borrow money, have credit, nothing... guess how many times she has been offered a credit card? Not once. Me on the other had, I have always had a business overdraft, always used it and sometimes, thanks to the vagaries of clients who think its OK not to pay people have sometimes in the past relied on it. How many applications do you think I get a month?

This is cynical targeting, its what they do brilliantly, why do you think that magazines like Country Life and the sort of magazines a certain percentage of the population run almost no credit card or debt adverts? Compare them with something like Hello or one of the other chavvy mags... coincidence? Yeah maybe, but then it could also be true that Elvis is alive and works in a chip shop in Great Yarmouth.

There are teams of people who come up with ways to "convince" people that their credit cards will get them out of their money troubles, couple that with the former ease with which you can accrue a credit card, then hand that credit card to a cash strapped, often poorly educated or informed person who has always had to count their pennies and hey presto you have a recipe for disaster and debt.

 

As I said, I'm not asking for people to endorse what many call theft, just to be a little more compassionate than some of the sentiments voiced on here... life is not black and white, just a huge range of shades of gray and there but for the grace of god go us all.

[basil]

I don't see it as a naive attitude, but you're entitled to your opinion.

I'm well aware the banks target individuals, same as just about any company selling anything really.

I can't say I've seen too much targetting with regards mortgages though, not like credit cards.

 

I'm not completely lacking in compassion as I said, particularly with regards to people who have to take on additional debts to get by at unreasonable rates.

The context of my lack of sympathy was for people who took on mortgages they couldn't afford at the outset, I see a mortgage as elective.

I just think people are quick to point the finger of blame at anyone but themselves nowadays. Blame the banks, their parents, the education system, the area they live in but never acknowledge they had a part to play in the outcome and were attempting to live beyond their means.

[Guest guest33730]

As I said, I'm not asking for people to endorse what many call theft, just to be a little more compassionate than some of the sentiments voiced on here... life is not black and white, just a huge range of shades of gray and there but for the grace of god go us all.

 

I haven't seen many people 'voicing un-compassionate sentiments' on here. The issue, as Basil has been saying, is that people are not willing to face there own responsibility in their debt. Running away from debt ( or pretty much any issue) won't help people in the long run. I have all the compassion in the world for people who face up to the debt and try to work it through - in those situations I will back them to the hilt when negotiating with the banks etc, however to those who rack up debt by accident/miss-selling/choice but then use the emigration system to avoid taking any responsibility - to those I don't have compassion.

 

As to the Grace of God - His message is always to admit your mistakes and face the consequences - to those who do that, then His Grace is easily enough to cover that!!

 

Daniel

[Glad I Moved]

I can't say I've seen too much targetting with regards mortgages though, not like credit cards.

 

What?!

 

Turn on your radio or TV.

 

If you don't hear any of honest Aussie John's "We'll save you" sales pitches for their mortgages, or RAMS or Westpac or any of the other lenders who spend big bucks doing just that, I'll go to the foot of our stairs.

 

Fannie Mae has already been mentioned so let's look at the recent history of a company whose business practices had one of the the biggest effect on triggering the GFC;

 

Remember, Fannie Mae's real name is the Federal National Mortgage Association so potential borrowers know they're dealing with a government backed company that can be trusted to do the right thing.:no:

 

In 1991, Fannie Mae launched a $10 billion "Opening Doors to Affordable Housing" initiative. They met this target in 1993.

 

Flushed with their success, a year later they launch their Trillion Dollar Commitment, pledging $1 trillion in mortgages for 10 million low-to moderate income families.

 

In 1996 they announced a mortgage product designed to expand home ownership through a ridiculously low 3% down-payment.

 

Hear any bells ringing yet?

 

In 1999 their new mission statement included the phrase " Because having a safe place to call home strengthens families, communities and our nation as a whole." In other words, not owning your home was un-American!

 

In 2001, they go for the American Dream Commitment - a ten-year, $2 trillion pledge to increase home ownership rates and serve 18 million American families.

 

A few years later, it all goes very, very wrong.

 

The history of Freddie MAC (AKA The Federal Home Mortgage Corporation,) is similar.

 

Bear in mind also that from the Carter years, sucessive US administrations were putting huge pressure on lenders to make housing affordable to sections of the community that hitherto had been unable to get credit. In other words the US government itself was leaning on lenders to urge its citizens to get deeper and deeper into mortgage debt!

 

I cannot therefore agree with your assertion that there was no "targetting with regards mortgages" when huge chunks of the the entire US national economy was based on selling them.

[Guest hendersons09]

We have a loan and credit cards still in the UK and we send money back via HIFX every month.

[Glad I Moved]

There has just been a case where , a family has been deported out of oz for not paing the credit cards.

 

That is complete and utter rubbish and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for posting such misleading drivel.

 

You cannot be deported for an unpaid credit card bill.

 

That sort of statement ranks alongside other such idiotic comments as "You'll be detained at immigration if you ever try and return to the UK with unpaid credit card debts"

[wicksy84]

hello debtors

[ajs604]

I also have debt in the uk from uni. I have to keep a UK back account open and transfur a set amount every month - which includes quite high international handling fees. I have no plans to return to the UK but wanted to pay it back out of principle. But if it wasnt for the loan then I wouldnt of been able to emigrate as it helped me do my training through my degree. Hopefully will have it sorted out in the next few years.

[steen1976]

Can anyone tell me the kind charges I would be paying sending money back to the UK. E.g. on a £1000 per month?

[rebrol]

Hello all

Looking for some sound advice on a rather irritating matter that I am trying to get sorted but getting nowhere fast. Basically a mobile phone company in the UK are trying to get me to pay £300 for a so-called unpaid bill. But I phoned them 6 weeks before I left to ask to be put onto pay as you go which they said they would do that evening and they were giving me £15 of credit. I received no bills for nearly 3 months and continued to use my phone as I figured I still had some credit on it.

They now say I did not ask to be put onto pay as you go and I am liable for the bill - as it turns out they have sent me several different bills including a refund for rental service! But the £300 still stands.

I have found the record of the phone call on my bill but they say that I did not make any requests. I am trying to sort it out with CISA but not having any luck yet. They now say they are going to pass onto debt collectors. I am not in the habit of running away from debts but I don't feel I should have to pay for their mistakes either.

My question is can they chase me in Au? Can they issue a CCJ against me? Any suggestions and advice greatly appreciated!

[Guest guest33730]

Hello all

Looking for some sound advice on a rather irritating matter that I am trying to get sorted but getting nowhere fast. Basically a mobile phone company in the UK are trying to get me to pay £300 for a so-called unpaid bill. But I phoned them 6 weeks before I left to ask to be put onto pay as you go which they said they would do that evening and they were giving me £15 of credit. I received no bills for nearly 3 months and continued to use my phone as I figured I still had some credit on it.

They now say I did not ask to be put onto pay as you go and I am liable for the bill - as it turns out they have sent me several different bills including a refund for rental service! But the £300 still stands.

I have found the record of the phone call on my bill but they say that I did not make any requests. I am trying to sort it out with CISA but not having any luck yet. They now say they are going to pass onto debt collectors. I am not in the habit of running away from debts but I don't feel I should have to pay for their mistakes either.

My question is can they chase me in Au? Can they issue a CCJ against me? Any suggestions and advice greatly appreciated!

 

They can't chase you in in Aus (well they could try but they don't have any jurisdiction) And they can only get a CCJ against you in the UK if they can serve you with a notice which may be hard for them to do. Personally if I were in your shoes I would write them one letter (withholding your new address) explaining the situation and informing them you will not be paying the account.

 

I wouldn't advocate that in every circumstance but if you are genuine in what you have disclosed then I reckon that is the best course of action

 

regards

 

Daniel

[rebrol]

Thanks Daniel

 

I have contacted them via e-mail several times to try to resolve the situation but to no avail. I did make some calls from Australia so I suppose they could try to contact me via them but I have sent them a final e-mail and complained to CISA and I think I will leave it at that. I am just worried that it may affect my credit rating in Au. I am mighty annoyed that it will also affect my credit ratin in the UK which is excellent but I have no plans to return so, so be it!

[Guest guest33730]

Thanks Daniel

 

I have contacted them via e-mail several times to try to resolve the situation but to no avail. I did make some calls from Australia so I suppose they could try to contact me via them but I have sent them a final e-mail and complained to CISA and I think I will leave it at that. I am just worried that it may affect my credit rating in Au. I am mighty annoyed that it will also affect my credit ratin in the UK which is excellent but I have no plans to return so, so be it!

 

Just to re-iterate it cannot affect your Aus Credit rating in any circumstances

 

Daniel

[Guest Jo and Dave]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would chuck my 2 pence worth in !

 

Firstly no one should shirk their responsibility, you spent it, you re-pay it BUT there are several ways of not only dealing with it BUT also repaying it.

 

Firstly the creditor is interested in one thing and one thing alone GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK, now they would rather get SOME rather than none so NEGOTIATE !

 

If you owe, you owe BUT the bankls, credit card companies etc... aren't stupid, they don't go around with ears shut and blind folds on, make a point, you are leaving, just give me a settlement figure, then clear it. You will be surprised how much can and will be reduced. Faced with the fact they KNOW you are leaving, they KNOW they can't chase you. They will settle for what they can get. This is NOT a morale issue, this WILL NOT make a dot of difference to them or anyone else it is between YOU and THEM !!

 

As cold as that may sound, to them you are simply a statistic either way, so treat them the same, they are statistically based on EVERYTHING !! You will NOT matter to them AT ALL if you stayed, went, lived or died, it is a business model they use, if you make an offer of early settlement they WILL accept, it is NOT in their interest to argue, that is the bottom line.

 

It isn't or shouldn't be a morale issue, life is life, they don't see you as anything more than their own bottom line, they have NO morality (how else could they survive??) take that on board, speak to them, settle all debts before going and feel the sun on your back with your head held high !!

 

Advice dispensed lol !!

[rebrol]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would chuck my 2 pence worth in !

 

Firstly no one should shirk their responsibility, you spent it, you re-pay it BUT there are several ways of not only dealing with it BUT also repaying it.

 

Firstly the creditor is interested in one thing and one thing alone GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK, now they would rather get SOME rather than none so NEGOTIATE !

 

If you owe, you owe BUT the bankls, credit card companies etc... aren't stupid, they don't go around with ears shut and blind folds on, make a point, you are leaving, just give me a settlement figure, then clear it. You will be surprised how much can and will be reduced. Faced with the fact they KNOW you are leaving, they KNOW they can't chase you. They will settle for what they can get. This is NOT a morale issue, this WILL NOT make a dot of difference to them or anyone else it is between YOU and THEM !!

 

As cold as that may sound, to them you are simply a statistic either way, so treat them the same, they are statistically based on EVERYTHING !! You will NOT matter to them AT ALL if you stayed, went, lived or died, it is a business model they use, if you make an offer of early settlement they WILL accept, it is NOT in their interest to argue, that is the bottom line.

 

It isn't or shouldn't be a morale issue, life is life, they don't see you as anything more than their own bottom line, they have NO morality (how else could they survive??) take that on board, speak to them, settle all debts before going and feel the sun on your back with your head held high !!

 

Advice dispensed lol !!

 

I totally agree with paying back debt and not just doing a runner. However, when you have done nothing wrong and a company have made a mistake then I don't see why you should just roll over and pay them. In my case I did everything right, cancelling my mobile contract and asking to be put on pay as you go - yet they did not do this, and now think I owe them money!!

I have a loan in the UK which I shall continue to pay and should I not be able to do so will contact them to make another agreement. I left the UK knowing I had tied up all my loose ends so to speak - paid all my bills and feel my integrity is intact BUT will not pay for others mistakes!

[Glad I Moved]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would chuck my 2 pence worth in !

 

Firstly no one should shirk their responsibility, you spent it, you re-pay it BUT there are several ways of not only dealing with it BUT also repaying it.

 

Firstly the creditor is interested in one thing and one thing alone GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK, now they would rather get SOME rather than none so NEGOTIATE !

 

If you owe, you owe BUT the bankls, credit card companies etc... aren't stupid, they don't go around with ears shut and blind folds on, make a point, you are leaving, just give me a settlement figure, then clear it. You will be surprised how much can and will be reduced.

 

Nice thought and I agree with repaying what you owe - but have you actually tried this approach?

 

I can see several reasons why the banks would baulk at this. Nothing to do with emotion as you have pointed out - but purely operational and financial.

 

Firstly, no-one in the lower echelons of the bank will have the power to write off loans just like that and no-one in the upper tiers will be in the slightest bit interested. A consumer loan of 10, 20 or 30k represents a fraction of a second of the bank's trading day.

 

Have you ever tried to do anything outside the system in a corporate environment?

 

Secondly, the bank already has it's in-built debt recovery sections and as soon as you can't or won't pay, all the systems are in place to ensure that's where your account is headed.

 

I agree that maybe, and just maybe, you'll get a full and final figure from them at this stage but it's highly unlikely because they still have the option to sell your loan on to a DCA.

 

Which is the third and financial factor. As soon as the bank sells off your defaulted loan, it's no longer their problem and they can claim back all the nice insurance and tax relief which may well be worth more than you were offering as a F & F.

 

So, what I'm saying is that for your plan to work, it requires the banks to not only have an ability and willingness to set aside their standard operating procedure in an effort to accomodate the needs of a single client, it also assumes that someone in a bank actually cares about doing something for one of their customers!

 

Remember ... the computer says "no". (Insert cough here)

[Ken]

Lets look at the simple matter of the so called "Tobin Tax", its a simple surcharge of just 0.5% on all transactions made by the big banks, a conservative estimate is that this will generate upwards of £400 billion a year, thats just .5%, and 400 billion.... if such a small amount of surcharge can be generated think of the mind blowing amounts that are being traded

 

The problem with the "Tobin Tax" is that nearly all bank transactions only make a profit of 0.1% (or less) of the transaction. A tax of 0.5% would make them uneconomic and so the banks would simply stop doing them. Not only would the amount raised as a result fall far short of the touted £400 billion, those transactions are beneficial to the world economy as a whole and the massive reduction in banking transactions as the banks switch to the new tax efficient method of operating (i.e. only doing transactions if they make a large profit to pay the Tobin tax) would reduce flows of all other taxes and increase social security costs etc. A conservative estimate is the tax would be income negative to the governments of the world.

[Ken]

BUT, if I owed a big bank thousands and had the real chance to get on a plane and forget about it for a few years, or for ever if things worked out in OZ then I'm sorry but it would happen tomorrow, in a flash and I would not lose a single hours sleep about it. I'm more than happy to discuss my conviction further and I would defend it to the hilt. What I would have a problem with is state debts, owing the HRMC or Council Tax for that matter hurts the community you live in, it hurts the amenities you and your family rely on and the knock on effects are huge.

 

 

Haven't you got that backwards? The bank loan is money that belonged to the bank in the first place and they loaned it to you so that should be your first priority to repay. The HMRC or Council Tax is money that belonged to you in the first place. HMRC or the Council are attempting to steal it to give it away on social security payments to layabouts, foreign wars (have they found those WMDs yet?) and grants for one-legged lesbian dance troupes. I wouldn't lose a single hours sleep if I thought that going to Australia meant I didn't have to pay them.

[Glad I Moved]

Haven't you got that backwards? The bank loan is money that belonged to the bank in the first place?

 

Ummm - not it didn't.

 

The "money" the banks loan doesn't actually exist until they create it by changing the numbers on a customer's account balance..and before that they borrow it from someone else who does exactly the same thing to them.

 

Everyone charges everyone else interest on fantasy money that wasn't theirs to start with and keeps the whole facade in place. And then the wheels fall off which is why you'll soon be able to pick up one of the greedy little PIIGS on eBay.

 

Not getting into the should you/shouldn't you repay it debate. Just sayin'

 

Personally, I have no problems with taxes - not a perfect sytsem for sure, but someone has to pay for health, education, police, transport, refuse collection etc.

[Guest Krys]

All 'money' is borrowed in to existance! look up the term 'fractional reserve banking' it is how all central banks work. If you can understand it you will be AMAZED!

When you go to a bank for a loan / credit car/ mortgage; the bank does not have the money to lend you, it is created by the bank when you sign the 'promise to pay' (contract).

[bdobson]

Because of the exchnage rate being so good for the AUD dollar - it might actually be better to get here and then pay the debt of by transferring AUD back to england as you will gain from the exchnage and pay of the debt quicker!

 

All,

 

Thanks for the posts, more than i thought.

 

However at no point am i ever thinking of negating on any debt i was just interested in the practicality of it and whether anyone else had paid UK debt form Oz and how it had gone. I would budget the costs into the living expenses in Oz with a buffer for exchange and costs.

 

The options i see us having are going with some savings and debt as soon as possible, or paying off debt and then savings again (which is not the preferred choice as i would estimate that this would take up to 2 years at least and put alter plans such as starting a family).

 

 

Thanks again.