Emigrating with UK debt

[JayBone]

Jaybone - I'm not going to go into any details but i have lost hundreds of thousands recently because of the banking Crises as one of my company's collapsed - It's still not a reason to compromise MY integrity because someone/something else has lost theirs. If people start taking the law/justice into their own hands it will lead to Anarchy. I have chosen not to run away from what has happened - believe me I have been tempted especially knowing that by moving to Aus I could escape it all overnight. At the end of the day I have lost a significant amount of money but I'm not going to let them take my dignity or especially my integrity!!

 

Daniel

 

 

I totally understand, and as I say, I have only contemplated it, but to be honest I don’t think I could go through with it, I would feel like a criminal, and probably no better I suppose.:policeman:

I didn’t even know you could do it until I read a thread on here some months ago.

Thankfully the debt I have is only small, and I will be able to leave some money in my UK account to pay it while I am not working in OZ.

But, if I had the minerals, it sure would be nice to just up and leave!!:mask:

[Guest smileykylie]

I have paid back my credit card debt - but will admit that I did i did stop paying my pay tv and mobile phone even though the contracts had not ended. The reason for this was that I had spent the money on my credit cards so it was not mine and had to be repaid. But with the contracts I was no longer recieving a service or expecting them to provide anything so was not willing to keep paying. Fair enough I broke a contract but this does not bother me to be honest.

[Guest Silol]

Afternoon all,

 

I've always wanted to live and work in Australia, even if it ends up only being temporary. Now that i have finally gained the qualification in my field that should allow my wife and I to emigrate we are starting to do some serios research prior to officially applying for a visa and all that.

 

My first (and my wife would say every) worry is about money and more specifically going to Australia whilst still having UK debt, be it a loan or credit cards.

 

Has anyone had experience of going to Oz with UK debt and how did you deal with it? I can imagine there is extra costs/worries re overseas payments and possible movements on exchange, but as well as this were the credit companies okay with it all?

 

Cheers

 

Hi, I know this was posted a few months ago already and you've had a lot of replies.

We were a little scared to tell cc companies before we left in case they demanded we pay it all off before we left. We moved what we could to low interest lifetime balances. We then organised mail forwarding for a few months and left enough in our UK bank a/c to make monthly payments for about 6 months or so. Then phoned cc companies from Auz and changed our address with them to Auz address when the mail forwarding ended. And have just continued to HiFX or Paypal payments back to the UK monthly.

We've been here 20 months and have paid off 2 of 3 credit cards and don't have too long to go on the 3rd one.

It's not been easy, as it does take a while settling in a new place, and I'd advise anyone not to do that if you can at all pay it back before you leave. But if, like us you need to move when you need to move, you just scrimp and scrape and try to make it happen.

Some months are still rather tight, and we only manage the minimum payment, but mostly we're sending quite a bit above that, and we're managing, by God's grace, and keep reminding ourselves that it took us several years after moving to the UK before we were settled and income was more stable. So we keep pressing on and will win! Looking forward to the day we're debt free and don't want to go that direction again.

But chins up, it's possible. Just be realistic and put up with living within your means and make the necessary sacrifices. When the kids complain they want things, it's a time to teach them about the importance of living within your means and pulling together to get through it. Better days will come.

We're glad we made the move and loving the Aussie lifestyle :rolleyes:

[Guest guest33730]

Hi, I know this was posted a few months ago already and you've had a lot of replies.

We were a little scared to tell cc companies before we left in case they demanded we pay it all off before we left. We moved what we could to low interest lifetime balances. We then organised mail forwarding for a few months and left enough in our UK bank a/c to make monthly payments for about 6 months or so. Then phoned cc companies from Auz and changed our address with them to Auz address when the mail forwarding ended. And have just continued to HiFX or Paypal payments back to the UK monthly.

We've been here 20 months and have paid off 2 of 3 credit cards and don't have too long to go on the 3rd one.

It's not been easy, as it does take a while settling in a new place, and I'd advise anyone not to do that if you can at all pay it back before you leave. But if, like us you need to move when you need to move, you just scrimp and scrape and try to make it happen.

Some months are still rather tight, and we only manage the minimum payment, but mostly we're sending quite a bit above that, and we're managing, by God's grace, and keep reminding ourselves that it took us several years after moving to the UK before we were settled and income was more stable. So we keep pressing on and will win! Looking forward to the day we're debt free and don't want to go that direction again.

But chins up, it's possible. Just be realistic and put up with living within your means and make the necessary sacrifices. When the kids complain they want things, it's a time to teach them about the importance of living within your means and pulling together to get through it. Better days will come.

We're glad we made the move and loving the Aussie lifestyle :rolleyes:

 

Fantastic post! You have chosen the much harder way of handling your debt but you will soon be free of it and will be able to hold your head up high - Thank goodness for people like you!!

 

Daniel

[Guest soozie]

in reference to the original poster, do you have your visa yet? cos if you havent, in the upcoming changes there may be a financial declaration you need to make about the funds you are bringing with you - in SA state sponsorship you have to make a statutory declaration about the funds you will be bringing with you, and most witnesses who do the stat dec wont sign it unless they see proof; with SA SS its $5-10k per person, of which $10k must be in cash (cat remember exact figure, but i know for our family of 5 we need $45k). Im pretty sure most other states do the same.

I think on the 175 application it asks you what funds you intend to bring but you dont have to do a stat dec - but that may all change in the not too distant future.

since i first looked into emigrating 8 years ago, such things have changed drastically and been tightened up on - this is one of them!! so if you are broke, chances are you will struggle to get your visa anyway (unless you are very lucky!)

 

also, re debts following you - yes they do; there have been several posters on other migration forums who have had debt collectors knocking on their doors in aus after leaving debt in the uk. The finance may be subject to uk law, but when the debt gets sold onto international debt collectors its deemed void - they will find you.

[Guest MARTINI]

Hi, I know this was posted a few months ago already and you've had a lot of replies.

We were a little scared to tell cc companies before we left in case they demanded we pay it all off before we left. We moved what we could to low interest lifetime balances. We then organised mail forwarding for a few months and left enough in our UK bank a/c to make monthly payments for about 6 months or so. Then phoned cc companies from Auz and changed our address with them to Auz address when the mail forwarding ended. And have just continued to HiFX or Paypal payments back to the UK monthly.

We've been here 20 months and have paid off 2 of 3 credit cards and don't have too long to go on the 3rd one.

It's not been easy, as it does take a while settling in a new place, and I'd advise anyone not to do that if you can at all pay it back before you leave. But if, like us you need to move when you need to move, you just scrimp and scrape and try to make it happen.

Some months are still rather tight, and we only manage the minimum payment, but mostly we're sending quite a bit above that, and we're managing, by God's grace, and keep reminding ourselves that it took us several years after moving to the UK before we were settled and income was more stable. So we keep pressing on and will win! Looking forward to the day we're debt free and don't want to go that direction again.

But chins up, it's possible. Just be realistic and put up with living within your means and make the necessary sacrifices. When the kids complain they want things, it's a time to teach them about the importance of living within your means and pulling together to get through it. Better days will come.

We're glad we made the move and loving the Aussie lifestyle :rolleyes:

 

Well done you and your OH deserve a lot of credit for taking this route.

 

Have a great life in OZ cos you deserve it.

[Bobbsy]

Well done you and your OH deserve a lot of credit for taking this route.

 

I have to ask--was that a deliberate attempt to make the worst pun of the week in PIO...or an accidental choice of phrase!

 

Bob

[Guest MARTINI]

I have to ask--was that a deliberate attempt to make the worst pun of the week in PIO...or an accidental choice of phrase!

 

Bob

 

Hi

 

I cannot take any praise for my artistry with words. It was purely accidental.

 

Regards

[Sol Survivor]

I know this thread started a while ago but I couldn't help reading through with a smirk. How on earth did the thread end up going down the moralistic route!? If you read the first post the poster just said they had UK debt but at no point that they were shirking their responsibility, then a reply came in answering the post as if that person had said they were doing a runner, which then lead to a load of unprompted soap box posts, even though that original poster never said they were doing a runner, loads of people just clearly wanted to preach. This then wound up someone who clearly is a shirker by nature and then the morales (quite rightly) started flooding in, but the thread should never have taken that route in the first place!:wacko:

 

Anyway, if you have a smallish amount of debt (say up to £5k), unquestionably pay it off before going, but disposable income is also very important, especially if your debt is managed in to comfortable repayments and low interest and the figure of debt is quite high. It might take you too long to pay it off and hold up your plans to such an extent that it may take you over age boundaries for certain visas or acquiring enough points. But if you go abroad with debt, make sure you have at least saved and left in a UK bank account 1 years worth of minimum repayments. That way, you can settle in Aus, job hunt, and initially not need to worry about how your income has to correlate to your UK debt repayments and not worry about international transfers, meeting payments deadlines etc.. A prime example of the need for disposable income would be someone who has £25k worth of debt but has saved £15k. Logically you might say, why hasn't that person been paying off their debt instead of saving and why doesn't that person cut their debt to £10k using their savings. Well yes that makes sense in a way but what if eg. you applied to a state for a 176 who needed proof of funds? A second ago you had £15k and would have been able to pass this critieria, but now you may have reduced your debt, but your disposable income has dropped to a level that now prevents you getting the visa you needed.

 

Always balance the freedom that disposable income brings you against your desire to balance the books and pay off your debts.

[Quinkla]

Always balance the freedom that disposable income brings you against your desire to balance the books and pay off your debts.

Are you advocating theft under certain circumstances?

[Sol Survivor]

Are you advocating theft under certain circumstances?

 

Is that a serious question? Or a spot of humour?

[bernie inn]

Hi all I have a DMP (debt management plan) because of problems a couple of years ago and i'm paying back all of my debt through this. These payments will continue when I get to Oz and hopefully i'll be able to pay more off it per month and get it cleared sooner. I can see arguments for and against the banks for debt. In my case i certainly spent the money no question, however my behaviour with my cards leading up to my financial crash should have rang alarm bells, I was basically living on credit so i needed to take cash out with my CC cards sustantial amounts to cover bills etc and just monthly living expenses as all my disposable income was going on paying off debts. I had no idea that there was help available to me in the forms of debt management charities had i have known it all would have stopped sooner.

 

Anyway I digress for my debt i am responsible for it and am paying off what I can per month but I feel the banks could have stepped in and stopped it much sooner it was obvious I had problems. I could have taken bankruptcy but chose not too as I still owe the money bankruptcy would have cleared it after 12 months. For me paying it back is the right thing to do.

 

Just a question if i try to open an OZ bank account while i'm in the uk will they find out about all of this? I have learned my lesson now the hard way and won't touch CC's again. But I wouldn't like my credit history to follow me. I know it won't if we open an account on the ground in Oz but would it if we opened it before we left?

[Guest humpy]

Be warned, I know for a fact that the major banks in Australia follow up debts for the banks in the UK, one can only assume that major lenders in the UK will have some sort of reciprocal agreement with similar institutions in Australia.

The UK and Australia have a lot of ties, you can't escape that easily.

 

 

I got told by a guy in the know, basically works in debt recovery in the UK that you could for example get a loan in the UK with HSBC, default on the payments and move to Australia and HSBC in Oz cant legally chase you for it, there is no reciprocal agreement at all in place between the 2 countries. Even if a UK company sold the debt to an Aussie debt collection agency there isn't anything they can do legally to get the money from you as the debt was started in another country. They can even be fined for harrassment if they hassle you. If after 6 years nothing is done with the debt it automatically becomes a void debt and gets written off by all involved. Even after 6 yrs debt agencies will still chase you but you csan tell them where to go...

 

Your credit rating in Oz covers Australia only and vice versa with UK, this might change in years to come but for now .......

[Guest humpy]

Hi all I have a DMP (debt management plan) because of problems a couple of years ago and i'm paying back all of my debt through this. These payments will continue when I get to Oz and hopefully i'll be able to pay more off it per month and get it cleared sooner. I can see arguments for and against the banks for debt. In my case i certainly spent the money no question, however my behaviour with my cards leading up to my financial crash should have rang alarm bells, I was basically living on credit so i needed to take cash out with my CC cards sustantial amounts to cover bills etc and just monthly living expenses as all my disposable income was going on paying off debts. I had no idea that there was help available to me in the forms of debt management charities had i have known it all would have stopped sooner.

 

Anyway I digress for my debt i am responsible for it and am paying off what I can per month but I feel the banks could have stepped in and stopped it much sooner it was obvious I had problems. I could have taken bankruptcy but chose not too as I still owe the money bankruptcy would have cleared it after 12 months. For me paying it back is the right thing to do.

 

Just a question if i try to open an OZ bank account while i'm in the uk will they find out about all of this? I have learned my lesson now the hard way and won't touch CC's again. But I wouldn't like my credit history to follow me. I know it won't if we open an account on the ground in Oz but would it if we opened it before we left?

 

 

Dont open the account in the UK as they can check as there still based there, open it in Oz and they cant check. Simple ..... Your credit history wont follow you, you start a fresh on Aussie soil...

[Guest guest36187]

I`d say to ALL posters on this thread who are concerned about debt that they should get some solid, legal advice.

[Glad I Moved]

I got told by a guy in the know, basically works in debt recovery in the UK that you could for example get a loan in the UK with HSBC, default on the payments and move to Australia and HSBC in Oz cant legally chase you for it, there is no reciprocal agreement at all in place between the 2 countries. Even if a UK company sold the debt to an Aussie debt collection agency there isn't anything they can do legally to get the money from you as the debt was started in another country. They can even be fined for harrassment if they hassle you. If after 6 years nothing is done with the debt it automatically becomes a void debt and gets written off by all involved. Even after 6 yrs debt agencies will still chase you but you csan tell them where to go...

 

Your credit rating in Oz covers Australia only and vice versa with UK, this might change in years to come but for now .......

 

That's pretty much spot on Humpy - but if I may, I'd like to correct a couple of minor points.

 

There ARE reciprocal agreements between Australia and the UK but the purpose of these is often misunderstood.

 

These agreements allow for judgements previously made in one country to be enforced in another - they are not there for people to be taken to court in Australia for an offence in the UK and vice versa.

 

When these are mentioned in the context of debt collection, they are only ever relevant if a UK debtor has had a court judgement made against them which can in theory be enforced in an Australian court. This is an expensive, complex and time consuming process and so the agreement is really only intended for the enforcement of very large, commercial sums rather than for debt collectors to chase unpaid credit card accounts!

 

Also, on the matter of the 6 year time limit - the correct term is "Statute Barred" rather than void and the creditor doesn't necessarily write it off...it's just that the debt becomes legally unenforceable.

 

As far as the sharing of financial information between countries and posting them on individuals' credit files is concerned, this will never be possible since both the UK and Australian data Protection and Privacy legislation prohibits such cross-border trading of personal details without the subject's consent.

 

For the record, I have no strong feelings either way on the matter of repaying outstanding UK debts but believe that this is a decision that only those who are in that postion can make.

[Swannie]

I think the word "debt" is such a powerful one, until relatively recently it carried a jail sentence in this country and many who ended up there lost everything, homes, family, work or business, so its not hard to see why people have such a feeling about it but I also think we have to look at it a little more rationally. There are different kinds of debt, people who put all debt in the same group are over simplifying the subject, one debt is NOT the same as another. The super poor in this country are penalised, even the bankruptcy process is geared to handicap them, some bankruptcy agreements can cost hundreds of pounds, which is absolute lunacy but is yet another legacy of those bad old days... as far as the courts were concerned, if you could pay the court fees you could pay your debts!

Its already been mentioned on here about "state" debts and this is my point, you can be in debt in so many ways and to say its the debtors fault is very short sighted, banks have been getting away with dubious selling tactics over the years and to be honest will continue once the dust settles and charging someone up to £35 PER DAY for going overdrawn is absolute daylight robbery, but thats what they have been doing, for years.

I'm glad that so many people have been lucky on here and have had a good run of things but thats not always easy and the lack of compassion for the debt is shocking, understandable but still shocking. I will add, I am NOT endorsing running out on your debts, BUT, if I owed a big bank thousands and had the real chance to get on a plane and forget about it for a few years, or for ever if things worked out in OZ then I'm sorry but it would happen tomorrow, in a flash and I would not lose a single hours sleep about it. I'm more than happy to discuss my conviction further and I would defend it to the hilt. What I would have a problem with is state debts, owing the HRMC or Council Tax for that matter hurts the community you live in, it hurts the amenities you and your family rely on and the knock on effects are huge.

 

The myth of the thieving gits who run up huge debts buying iPhones and sofas, living life like kings while the bailiffs bang at the door is just that, a myth, its Daily Mail reporting at its worse, and how do I know that? Because if it wasn't the case there would be bailiff companies everywhere and repossessions up and down your street and there just aren't. Come on people, have some compassion.

[Glad I Moved]

I`d say to ALL posters on this thread who are concerned about debt that they should get some solid, legal advice.

 

That's a good idea - but try asking an Australian solicitor for their professional opinion on the enforceablility of an unsecured UK debt covered by the the CCA and I'll wager most of them will be stumped.

 

It is simply not something they need to know.

[basil]

BUT, if I owed a big bank thousands and had the real chance to get on a plane and forget about it for a few years, or for ever if things worked out in OZ then I'm sorry but it would happen tomorrow, in a flash and I would not lose a single hours sleep about it. I'm more than happy to discuss my conviction further and I would defend it to the hilt. What I would have a problem with is state debts, owing the HRMC or Council Tax for that matter hurts the community you live in, it hurts the amenities you and your family rely on and the knock on effects are huge.

 

 

That seems a bit twisted logic to me. Sorry, but people defaulting on loans to the 'big banks' nearly brought the banking system down and in the US caused thousands of job losses - not just 'bankers' that the daily mail loves to call them all and slate, but IT support, secretaries, mail men, HR assistants and so on and then ut ultimately hit the hole economy. The government bailed them out in the UK at a cost ultimately to the tax payer.

So not paying the big banks still has an effect on the local community.

I don't see how not paying the big banks is ok, but not paying HMRC, local council tax etc isn't.

[Swannie]

That seems a bit twisted logic to me. Sorry, but people defaulting on loans to the 'big banks' nearly brought the banking system down and in the US caused thousands of job losses - not just 'bankers' that the daily mail loves to call them all and slate, but IT support, secretaries, mail men, HR assistants and so on and then ut ultimately hit the hole economy. The government bailed them out in the UK at a cost ultimately to the tax payer.

So not paying the big banks still has an effect on the local community.

I don't see how not paying the big banks is ok, but not paying HMRC, local council tax etc isn't.

 

No it didn't, lending to people ill prepared to EVER be able to pay back the money simply to get a higher "uptake" figure, therefore looking more impressive to outside investors and money men is what brought the likes of Fannie May down, offering 200% mortgages to people earning less than 15,000 is what brought them down... it is a well known fact that in terms of percentage of business personal banking makes up a tiny amount of a banks assets and trade, in fact many banks openly admit that they could happily do without personal bank accounts, we are talking about companies that trade billions an hour, your £3000 savings make absolutely no difference to them at all, that is displayed by the contempt they treat you and your 'business" with.

Lets look at the simple matter of the so called "Tobin Tax", its a simple surcharge of just 0.5% on all transactions made by the big banks, a conservative estimate is that this will generate upwards of £400 billion a year, thats just .5%, and 400 billion.... if such a small amount of surcharge can be generated think of the mind blowing amounts that are being traded, so now put someones paltry bank debt into perspective, its a drop in the ocean and I have to say, it fuels yet more work and money. Banks take out insurance policies, they insure against this kind of thing, they in turn provide a healthy income for the insurance companies, they raise premiums, that makes the banks adjust the way they lend, this creates work, every step of the way, it creates money.

 

As to the whole income tax thing, its more than simply a community issue, its a responsibility issue too. One person should not pay for the rest of the street, therefore that is why its wrong, do I feel guilty about the way I feel? Nope... the banks are set to pay out £7 billion in bonus's this year, not one of these is to be paid to lower management, for the most part the super rich keep their money overseas so the argument that they help the economy is fatally flawed. Sorry but my feelings towards the banks is never going to change, I am one of those people who raked back nearly £4,000 worth of charges from my bank, I even took them to court for mis-selling me payment protection that when I tried to use to cover a period I couldn't work they refused it, saying the "criteria" of my period I couldn't work was not covered by my payment protection.

[Glad I Moved]

people defaulting on loans to the 'big banks' nearly brought the banking system down and in the US caused thousands of job losses.

 

Not quite true.

 

Very simply, the whole banking collapse was caused by banks gambling on a highly volatile US property market. To stoke the fires and increase their profits, they were deliberately making NINJA mortgage loans of billions of dollars to borrowers who they KNEW were going to default within the first few payments - but that didn't matter because by then they'd flogged thousands of these toxic loans off to other banks and were so confident that nothing could go wrong that they GUARANTEED that the investment couldn't fail.

 

Trouble is, the bubble burst and they were left not only holding billions in worthless loans but were also committed to paying out on their promises to the other banks to make good their losses too. That's when they went cap in hand to the govt to bail them out.

 

To blame the global financial collapse on individual borrowers is a bit like putting your life savings on a 100 -1 outsider in The National and then blaming the horse when it falls at the first fence.

 

Now the thread is really off-topic!

[basil]

ah ok I see, so your comment re not repaying banks is because you figure they have it covered and you have issues with the banking industry. That makes sense.

I take your point on what caused it, that was oversimplification on my part, but had people been able to pay back their loans it wouldn't have quite been such a mess. I agree morally it was wrongful lending, but ignorance on the borrowers part is no excuse.

But that is a whole different debate.

[Glad I Moved]

ah ok I see, so your comment re not repaying banks is because you figure they have it covered and you have issues with the banking industry. That makes sense.

 

Sorry - but it wasn't me that made that comment!

 

I only highlighted the over-simplification of the causes of the GFC.

[Swannie]

ah ok I see, so your comment re not repaying banks is because you figure they have it covered and you have issues with the banking industry. That makes sense.

I take your point on what caused it, that was oversimplification on my part, but had people been able to pay back their loans it wouldn't have quite been such a mess. I agree morally it was wrongful lending, but ignorance on the borrowers part is no excuse.

But that is a whole different debate.

 

Yep... pretty much. The banking industry is flawed, fatally so, they screw people on a daily basis and are completely endorsed to do so by each government that forces its way into power. Do I think it will ever change? Nope, do I want it to change? Nope, I am with the Co-Op now and I am happy with them, the rest can go and rot for all I care, no one else will do anything about the situation so why should I eh?

[Glad I Moved]

ignorance on the borrowers part is no excuse.

But that is a whole different debate.

 

Ok - last post on this but I couldn't resist.

 

You say that ignorance on the part of borrowers is no excuse. Bear in mind that the bulk of these loans were to borrowers in lower socio-economic groups who didn't have the financial sophistication to realise what they were getting into and relied upon the professional advice of mortgage lenders like Fannie Mae to act ethically.

 

Sounds familiar? Ask any of the many thousands in the UK who were mis-sold endowment policies that were guaranteed to cover their mortgage and see if they had any reason to not believe all the similar promises that were made to them.

 

Their decisions were not based on greed or stupidity but on what they believed to be sound financial advice.