Proof of citizenship

[BendigoBoy]

5 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Apologies to everyone for the earlier misinformation, and thanks for pointing it out.

You think that's a clanger?
You didn't drop database tables in production this morning...

[InnerVoice]

2 minutes ago, BendigoBoy said:

You think that's a clanger?
You didn't drop database tables in production this morning...

I think the world could do with a bit less data - you've probably done us all a favour.

[Ken]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

@JMcKie just realized I've dropped a massive clanger! That information was from the Australian High Commission UK website, so those were the costs for renewing Australian passports in the UK.

https://uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/passportfees.html

As you've pointed out, it's much cheaper to renew the UK passport so it seems a no-brainer given that (if British citizens can't get an ETA) you're going to need one anyway.

Apologies to everyone for the earlier misinformation, and thanks for pointing it out.

Still a lot cheaper not to renew for those of us who don't visit the UK.

[InnerVoice]

11 hours ago, rammygirl said:

But if a citizen I don’t think you can get an eta. Same as you can’t get a visa for Aus if a citizen. You must use passport. Although it does say it can be expired as long as the picture is still recognisable as you. 

 

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

But you can't get a ETA if you're a citizen of that country.

If you applied for an ETA (when they are introduced) as an Australian citizen, do you think they'd check if you were already a UK citizen?

[BendigoBoy]

5 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

 

If you applied for an ETA (when they are introduced) as an Australian citizen, do you think they'd check if you were already a UK citizen?

How would they know?  An explicit question on the application form?  A cross check of your photo against those in the database of UK citizen passports previously issued?

[InnerVoice]

6 minutes ago, BendigoBoy said:

How would they know?  An explicit question on the application form?  A cross check of your photo against those in the database of UK citizen passports previously issued?

Well they'd never find out if it was one of your databases!

[BendigoBoy]

1 minute ago, InnerVoice said:

Well they'd never find out if it was one of your databases!

I resemble that remark.

[InnerVoice]

I just had a look on the GOV.UK website and under the section 'Who does not need and ETA', it states the following;

You also do not need an ETA if you have either:

• a visa
• permission to live, work or study in the UK
• a British or Irish passport

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-an-electronic-travel-authorisation-eta#who-does-not-need-aneta

It doesn't mention anything about being a UK citizen, so maybe if you no longer have a British passport then you will be able to apply for an ETA as a citizen of another country.

[Ken]

12 hours ago, rammygirl said:

But if a citizen I don’t think you can get an eta. Same as you can’t get a visa for Aus if a citizen. You must use passport. Although it does say it can be expired as long as the picture is still recognisable as you. 

But the reason you can't get a visa for Aus if a citizen is because Australia law specifically prohibits citizens from having Australian visas (which includes ETA). UK law doesn't have that prohibition and Australian law doesn't apply in the UK.

Edited February 14 by Ken

[Lavers]

6 hours ago, Ken said:

Still a lot cheaper not to renew for those of us who don't visit the UK.

You can still travel on your Aus passport though can’t you?

[InnerVoice]

5 hours ago, Ken said:

But the reason you can't get a visa for Aus if a citizen is because Australia law specifically prohibits citizens from having Australian visas (which includes ETA). UK law doesn't have that prohibition and Australian law doesn't apply in the UK.

It seems a rather odd law (I'm not disputing), but it's hard to imagine a scenario where an Australian citizen would ever need an Australian visa.

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

It seems a rather odd law (I'm not disputing), but it's hard to imagine a scenario where an Australian citizen would ever need an Australian visa.

There have been cases (some n here) where Oz/UK dual citizens living in the UK have let their Oz passport expire, and they assume they can travel to Australia by getting a tourist visa. They can't. They need to renew their Oz passport.

Canada and the US are the same, and there's a strong chance that the UK will be the same, when they introduce the ETA system over the next year or so, 

[Lavers]

14 hours ago, Nemesis said:

There have been cases (some n here) where Oz/UK dual citizens living in the UK have let their Oz passport expire, and they assume they can travel to Australia by getting a tourist visa. They can't. They need to renew their Oz passport.

Canada and the US are the same, and there's a strong chance that the UK will be the same, when they introduce the ETA system over the next year or so, 

Can you not travel on your Uk passport even though your an Aus citizen?

[rtritudr]

 

15 hours ago, Nemesis said:

There have been cases (some n here) where Oz/UK dual citizens living in the UK have let their Oz passport expire, and they assume they can travel to Australia by getting a tourist visa. They can't. They need to renew their Oz passport.

Canada and the US are the same, and there's a strong chance that the UK will be the same, when they introduce the ETA system over the next year or so, 

Australian citizens can travel to Australia even without an Australian passport using the Undocumented Uplift mechanism.

[Marisawright]

On 15/02/2024 at 12:19, Lavers said:

Can you not travel on your Uk passport even though your an Aus citizen?

Strictly speaking, no.  As an Australian citizen, you're not allowed to hold an Australian visa.  You can't travel to Australia on a British passport without having a visa.  

If you're asking whether you could get away with it, I'm not sure.  I guess if you book the whole trip using your UK passport, the travel agent will get a tourist visa for you, and it's unlikely anyone will be cross-checking.   Of course, you'll have to lie on your Incoming Passenger Card when you arrive in Oz, and pretend that you're just coming for a holiday.  

[paulhand]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Strictly speaking, no.  As an Australian citizen, you're not allowed to hold an Australian visa.  You can't travel to Australia on a British passport without having a visa.  

If you're asking whether you could get away with it, I'm not sure.  I guess if you book the whole trip using your UK passport, the travel agent will get a tourist visa for you, and it's unlikely anyone will be cross-checking.   Of course, you'll have to lie on your Incoming Passenger Card when you arrive in Oz, and pretend that you're just coming for a holiday.  

Do not lie on the IPC or to an immigration officer and don’t try and get a visa on a foreign passport. There are official ways to resolve the issue as noted below.

On 15/02/2024 at 02:43, rtritudr said:

 

Australian citizens can travel to Australia even without an Australian passport using the Undocumented Uplift mechanism.

This is the correct way to do things if it’s genuinely impossible to obtain an Australian passport in the required timeframe. It is also possible to get what’s called a ‘Australian Declaratory Visa” which, despite the name, is NOT a visa but does place a flag on a foreign passport that the holder is an Australian citizen. 

[paulhand]

On 15/02/2024 at 01:19, Lavers said:

Can you not travel on your Uk passport even though your an Aus citizen?

Only with difficulty- see above. 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, paulhand said:

Do not lie on the IPC or to an immigration officer and don’t try and get a visa on a foreign passport. There are official ways to resolve the issue as noted below.

I agree.  I certainly wouldn't risk it and I don't think Lavers would be that silly either.  I was just speculating on how it could be done, not whether it's a good idea (which I concur, it isn't).

[Ken]

On 14/02/2024 at 18:45, Lavers said:

You can still travel on your Aus passport though can’t you?

Yes. Somebody is speculating that if the UK introduces an ETA (or visa) requirement for everyone entering the UK they will at the same time require British citizens to enter the UK using a British passport. The logic is somewhat flawed as there is no reason to believe British citizens will be prohibited from applying for an ETA using a foreign passport. Citizens of many countries already need a visa but there are no laws to prevent a dual citizen of one of those countries obtaining a UK visa. Australia prohibits it (probably because the law requires citizens to use their Australian passport) but the UK doesn't.

Edited February 17 by Ken

[paulhand]

The law requires:

"A person, whether a citizen or a non-citizen, who enters Australia must, without unreasonable delay: 

(a)  present the following evidence (which might include a personal identifier) to a clearance authority:  

(i)  if the person is a citizen (whether or not the person is also the national of a country other than Australia) — the person's Australian passport or prescribed other evidence of the person's identity and Australian citizenship; 

(ii)  if the person is a non-citizen — evidence of the person's identity and of a visa that is in effect and is held by the person;"

Edited February 17 by paulhand