Unsure whether to return to UK

[Blue Manna]

5 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I'm sure that the grass is just as green, the hills are just as cloudy, the mills are still satanic, and the cows are happy based on the amount of mooing they do. That's how I view regional UK. I appreciate that the economy is on the backfoot over there but what do you expect? You can't pay millions of people to sit on their backsides for the best part of two years without economic consequences, and we're feeling the pinch over here too. Unfortunately it's payback time!

If the OP is able to return to the UK with a reasonable sum of money then she might be able to buy a property, or at least have enough to get a deposit. In that case the disparity between her AUS and UK salary wouldn't matter so much, just as long as she's able to keep on top of her monthly bills. Given that she's already decided to move back, it's really just a numbers game to try and get the best start for her and her little one. I wish her well.

I never realised the mills were satanic? Is some sort of devil worshiping cult that's attracted to them? I've never noticed anything like that. Is it at a particular time?

[Blue Manna]

7 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Yip, I just didn’t think it was going to be particularly helpful to the OP to go off on that tangent. 
I think you should come back and see how regional UK is looking post-Brexit and Covid. Not that the cities are faring much better either actually! I suppose when you think about it, you’re never really that far from a major city in the UK. 

Britain is doing absolutely fine after Brexit and covid. Business is booming and we're back for business. Just about to start a new trade deal with India in fact. It's true that some cottage industries that sell candles and pot purie to the Europeans might be struggling a bit, and the fishermen are screwed, but everyone else is doing brilliantly. Dyson was so right when he backed Brexit, and Brexit will give us more business men like Dyson. Things couldn't be better. The soaring pound against the plunging dollar should show you the truth. Don't believe all this harbingers of doom.

[FirstWorldProblems]

Nurse!  Can I have whatever you gave him please. I could do with a holiday from reality. 

[tea4too]

Without doubt life is a struggle for many in the UK just now as the country continues to navigate the economic legacy of covid lockdowns, Brexit and years of austerity policies delivered by successive tory governments. The media is full of stories warning of high interest rates, redundancies, an increase in homelessness and an NHS buckling under the strain. 

So it would be unrealistic to pretend there is no direct impact on society or individuals and I understand why those looking to emigrate do so in the hope of a better quality of life. But, for all its problems, the UK is still a first world country and the entire UK is not labouring under a constant cloud of despair. Personally we are happy here, our family are settled and making their way in life just as we did at their age, carefully navigating the cyclical ups and downs of economic downturns. If contemplating a MBTTUK my advice would be to choose your area carefully and be thorough with your research, because if you get it right it is still possible to have a good life here. T x

[Nemesis]

7 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

I never realised the mills were satanic? Is some sort of devil worshiping cult that's attracted to them? I've never noticed anything like that. Is it at a particular time?

Clearly not a big fan of The Ashes!

 

I refer you to Jerusalem 

[Cheery Thistle]

3 hours ago, tea4too said:

Without doubt life is a struggle for many in the UK just now as the country continues to navigate the economic legacy of covid lockdowns, Brexit and years of austerity policies delivered by successive tory governments. The media is full of stories warning of high interest rates, redundancies, an increase in homelessness and an NHS buckling under the strain. 

So it would be unrealistic to pretend there is no direct impact on society or individuals and I understand why those looking to emigrate do so in the hope of a better quality of life. But, for all its problems, the UK is still a first world country and the entire UK is not labouring under a constant cloud of despair. Personally we are happy here, our family are settled and making their way in life just as we did at their age, carefully navigating the cyclical ups and downs of economic downturns. If contemplating a MBTTUK my advice would be to choose your area carefully and be thorough with your research, because if you get it right it is still possible to have a good life here. T x

Not on £23k a year as a sole income it’s not. And honestly you wouldn’t think it’s a first world country in many towns up and down the country. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Cheery Thistle

[Blue Manna]

41 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Not on £23k a year as a sole income it’s not. And honestly you wouldn’t think it’s a first world country in many towns up and down the country. 

You can easily live on that sort of money in the UK. You might need to budget quite severely. But it is certainly possible.

[InnerVoice]

9 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

This is literally a hilarious view of ‘regional UK’. Regional rural UK maybe. I think the key point here is exactly what you said - this is how you view regional UK. It’s your view. And with the greatest respect in the world, it’s not an up to date view. You haven’t been here to see it for quite some time. 

Totally agree that if OP can buy something outright with no mortgage that would be perfect and might be just about doable. Still, £23k nets to about £1600 a month and it’s not a lot to run a home and pay for a child, especially if you need a car (I’m assuming in Yorkshire that’s likely). That’s all I’m saying, approach with caution. Just being realistic, not negative. In some ways the OP would be better off if she had no cash behind her - the universal credit calculators are quite opening, give it a go and you’ll see. I also hope it works out for Lamondra and wish her the best. 

Not everybody ‘sat on their backsides’ for 2 years. Many frontline workers were out working and many others (myself included) were trying to work from home and home school young children at the same time. It was not a holiday. It’s quite clear that you didn’t live through the hell of a UK lockdown. 

I don't recall saying 'everyone' was sat on their backsides for two years, but millions - in fact tens of millions - in developed nations around the world were. Supply chains which had taken decades to establish were shut down overnight. That combination of additional money in the economy chasing limited goods and services was the main cause of the inflation we're now dealing with, which is currently running at around 7% in both the UK and Australia.

As Marisa said, housing affordability is our biggest challenge. The median property price in England and Wales is around £275,000, which is easily £100,000 less than over here. Once my fixed rate period ends next year my mortgage will be roughly half my net income, and my salary is well above average for regional Australia. I have two teaching colleagues who are now working second jobs to make ends meet, and no one seems to be buying a new car or taking overseas holidays this year. I still feel life is better over here but there are a lot more people doing it tough at the moment - that's all I'm saying.

I was back in the UK 5 years ago, and even then I was shocked by the social decline compared with when I last lived there (2008-11). I wouldn't dispute for a moment that things have got worse since the pandemic, but given the choice of living in Middle England or the middle of Australia, I know which I'd choose every time. And whilst my view of UK may not be up-to-date, I am probably in a better position to make a comparison between the two countries than a person who has never visited one of them.

Most people come to this forum for advice or support, and the OP would seem to be in the latter category. After 14 years she can't find that sense of belonging here that she believes she will find back in the UK, so all this talk about where she'll be better off is purely arbitrary - she's going back. Personally, if I was in her shoes then I'd want to be sure that the family support network she is hoping for is going to be there, or it maybe a decision she regrets.

[Blue Manna]

3 hours ago, tea4too said:

Without doubt life is a struggle for many in the UK just now as the country continues to navigate the economic legacy of covid lockdowns, Brexit and years of austerity policies delivered by successive tory governments. The media is full of stories warning of high interest rates, redundancies, an increase in homelessness and an NHS buckling under the strain. 

So it would be unrealistic to pretend there is no direct impact on society or individuals and I understand why those looking to emigrate do so in the hope of a better quality of life. But, for all its problems, the UK is still a first world country and the entire UK is not labouring under a constant cloud of despair. Personally we are happy here, our family are settled and making their way in life just as we did at their age, carefully navigating the cyclical ups and downs of economic downturns. If contemplating a MBTTUK my advice would be to choose your area carefully and be thorough with your research, because if you get it right it is still possible to have a good life here. T x

It's really not. Go out to a garden centre, London, a national trust property and you will see heaps of people out and about making the most of our sometimes unpredictable weather. The country is doing too well actually. I hate queuing, but everywhere it's so busy you have to queue. Britain is booming! Brexit is wonderful.

[InnerVoice]

9 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

I never realised the mills were satanic? Is some sort of devil worshiping cult that's attracted to them? I've never noticed anything like that. Is it at a particular time?

It's a literary reference - I'll let you DYOR on that one.

34 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

You can easily live on that sort of money in the UK. You might need to budget quite severely. But it is certainly possible.

 

32 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

It's really not. Go out to a garden centre, London, a national trust property and you will see heaps of people out and about making the most of our sometimes unpredictable weather. The country is doing too well actually. I hate queuing, but everywhere it's so busy you have to queue. Britain is booming! Brexit is wonderful.

I was under the impression that you lived in Australia, not the UK?

[Blue Manna]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

It's a literary reference - I'll let you DYOR on that one.

 

I was under the impression that you lived in Australia, not the UK?

I had forgotten that line, and I'd never dwelt on it before. Do you suppose he was just struggling to find something that rhymes with hills? You would think it rather easy. But when you try, it's not as easy as you think.

[InnerVoice]

1 hour ago, Blue Manna said:

I had forgotten that line, and I'd never dwelt on it before. Do you suppose he was just struggling to find something that rhymes with hills? You would think it rather easy. But when you try, it's not as easy as you think.

pills, thrills, spills... bellyaches?

I just noticed one of your previous comments about a fella who ran out of the supermarket without paying and he probably had booze in his trolley, so I guess you're still in the UK. When do you intend to move to Australia?

Edited August 27, 2023 by InnerVoice

[Toots]

13 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

I never realised the mills were satanic? Is some sort of devil worshiping cult that's attracted to them? I've never noticed anything like that. Is it at a particular time?

William Blake who wrote Jerusalem was brought up in the era of the Industrial Revolution.  I dare say the mill workers viewed the mills as satanic.  I doubt they were pleasant places to work in.

[Marisawright]

14 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

I never realised the mills were satanic?

The author was contrasting the "green and pleasant land" of the countryside with the new industrial landscape of mills and factories belching out smoke.

[tea4too]

6 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Not on £23k a year as a sole income it’s not. And honestly you wouldn’t think it’s a first world country in many towns up and down the country. 

Who wouldn't? We're posting in MBTTUK, a small section of the forum designed to support those thinking of returning. It was reading negativity about life in the UK that prompted me to join PIO more than a decade ago because I didn't recognise the desperate, gloomy, dispirited place regularly described then, and I don't now tbh. It's right to acknowledge the huge social issues impacting the UK, but it's just as important in my view to acknowledge that many continue to live a relatively comfortable and happy life in a place they are content to call home. I get that planning a new life on the other side of the world might bring into sharp focus negative aspects of the life being left behind, but not everyone is going to share those opinions, or accept that life in every  part of the UK is directly comparable. T x

[InnerVoice]

1 hour ago, Toots said:

William Blake who wrote Jerusalem was brought up in the era of the Industrial Revolution.  I dare say the mill workers viewed the mills as satanic.  I doubt they were pleasant places to work in.

Fun fact: The poem Blake wrote in 1804 was called 'And did those feet in ancient time'. It didn't actually become the hymn 'Jerusalem' until Hubert Parry wrote the music in 1916, and Elgar provided the orchestration.

[Toots]

29 minutes ago, tea4too said:

Who wouldn't? We're posting in MBTTUK, a small section of the forum designed to support those thinking of returning. It was reading negativity about life in the UK that prompted me to join PIO more than a decade ago because I didn't recognise the desperate, gloomy, dispirited place regularly described then, and I don't now tbh. It's right to acknowledge the huge social issues impacting the UK, but it's just as important in my view to acknowledge that many continue to live a relatively comfortable and happy life in a place they are content to call home. I get that planning a new life on the other side of the world might bring into sharp focus negative aspects of the life being left behind, but not everyone is going to share those opinions, or accept that life in every  part of the UK is directly comparable. T x

I can only speak for my relatives and friends in the UK all of whom live comfortable, happy lives.  The only one who is a city dweller is my sister.  All the others live in the countryside.  Of course they notice things aren't perfect and the ones my age have lived through previous times of austerity e.g. constant strikes, the 3 day week to conserve electricity etc but they just got on with it. The UK will always pull through as it has done in the past.  

[Cheery Thistle]

6 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

You can easily live on that sort of money in the UK. You might need to budget quite severely. But it is certainly possible.

Break down a budget for me that includes rent and other necessities for an adult and child. I said it’s not possible to have a good/nice life. Survival might be possible!

[Cheery Thistle]

6 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

7 minutes ago, Toots said:

I can only speak for my relatives and friends in the UK all of whom live comfortable, happy lives.  The only one who is a city dweller is my sister.  All the others live in the countryside.  Of course they notice things aren't perfect and the ones my age have lived through previous times of austerity e.g. constant strikes, the 3 day week to conserve electricity etc but they just got on with it. The UK will always pull through as it has done in the past.  

Nobody has said the UK wouldn’t pull through. I think the UK will take at least 20 years to come out the other side of this slump, by which time I’ll be nearing the end of my working life and my daughter will have lived most of hers through austerity. I can only talk from personal experience. The area I am in is in steep decline - amenities are closing (this week we are losing our only municipal pool in a town of 70k people). 3 local sports centres are also closing and our theatre/arts hub is under threat. Everything is overgrown and scruffy. Bins are overflowing. It doesn’t scream ‘long life and prosperity’ to me. All while taxes are increasing. 
It’s not like we are struggling necessarily as a family, but over all the UK is struggling as a nation. Overall wages are really relatively low and our standards of living are taking a total battering. The saddest thing is that the government doesn’t seem to care enough to want to do anything to improve things. 
 

So @InnerVoice asked what I expect? 
 

I expect to be able to get an emergency dentist appointment within a week. 
 

I expect not to have to wait 3 years for an operation. 
 

I expect to have some basic leisure amenities if I live in a medium sized town. 
 

I expect schools to have more than £8 per pupil per year for resources (including paper, pens, online subscriptions etc). 
 

I expect to have to work hard. 
 

I expect not to be given anything. 
 

I expect to pay tax and pay charges for other things. 
 

I expect to live in a reasonably clean environment, where the government/council at least tries to keep things clean, tidy and maintained.  
 

Are these expectations too high for one of the richest countries in the world? Or for a country that ‘sat on its collective arse’ as you put it for 2 years? (Offensive much). 
 

People on this forum seem to be in denial. Yes your life might be OK but are you relatively as well off as you were 5 or 10 years ago? Do things feel positive? Is the outlook good for your kids/grandkids? Does your area have good community amenities? Do things feel well maintained and looked after? 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63659936.amp

 

 

[Cheery Thistle]

6 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

It's really not. Go out to a garden centre, London, a national trust property and you will see heaps of people out and about making the most of our sometimes unpredictable weather. The country is doing too well actually. I hate queuing, but everywhere it's so busy you have to queue. Britain is booming! Brexit is wonderful.

And you, my friend, are on the wind up! 

[Cheery Thistle]

8 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I don't recall saying 'everyone' was sat on their backsides for two years, but millions - in fact tens of millions - in developed nations around the world were. Supply chains which had taken decades to establish were shut down overnight. That combination of additional money in the economy chasing limited goods and services was the main cause of the inflation we're now dealing with, which is currently running at around 7% in both the UK and Australia.

As Marisa said, housing affordability is our biggest challenge. The median property price in England and Wales is around £275,000, which is easily £100,000 less than over here. Once my fixed rate period ends next year my mortgage will be roughly half my net income, and my salary is well above average for regional Australia. I have two teaching colleagues who are now working second jobs to make ends meet, and no one seems to be buying a new car or taking overseas holidays this year. I still feel life is better over here but there are a lot more people doing it tough at the moment - that's all I'm saying.

I was back in the UK 5 years ago, and even then I was shocked by the social decline compared with when I last lived there (2008-11). I wouldn't dispute for a moment that things have got worse since the pandemic, but given the choice of living in Middle England or the middle of Australia, I know which I'd choose every time. And whilst my view of UK may not be up-to-date, I am probably in a better position to make a comparison between the two countries than a person who has never visited one of them.

Most people come to this forum for advice or support, and the OP would seem to be in the latter category. After 14 years she can't find that sense of belonging here that she believes she will find back in the UK, so all this talk about where she'll be better off is purely arbitrary - she's going back. Personally, if I was in her shoes then I'd want to be sure that the family support network she is hoping for is going to be there, or it maybe a decision she regrets.

I’m not really comparing to Aus, as you say I’ve never been (reccy trip booked for Feb/March 2024, not long now).  I’m comparing to every other developed country I’ve been to in the past 10 years! Lol. Seriously. Went to Porto in May during the student festival - streets spotless and no loutish behaviour. It was heaving. Went to Edinburgh yesterday during the festival - bins over flowing and rubbish everywhere. Went to Lanzarote last month - again streets spotless and everything looking groomed. Went to Italy last year and our bin was collected EVERY day. Can barely get a collection at home. All of these countries are ostensibly less well-off than the UK. Why does it feel like things just don’t work here? Our local waste facility has just cut its opening hours and you now need to book a slot a week in advance to dispose of your rubbish. Which will surely lead to more dumping of rubbish. When did it get to the stage that our living environment just doesn’t matter? 

[Blue Manna]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

And you, my friend, are on the wind up! 

I was in borough markets last week and it was a crush with so many people. Never seen anything like it except before covid. Couldn't get a table anywhere for lunch. Absolutely packed. Ended up getting a meal deal from Sainsbury's and eating it on the river. I'm not a fan of crowds.

[InnerVoice]

34 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

So @InnerVoice asked what I expect? 

I expect to be able to get an emergency dentist appointment within a week. 
Dental treatment isn't free in Australia unless you have a concession, so you don't have to wait but you need to pay.

I expect not to have to wait 3 years for an operation. 
Depends on the type of operation. You'll probably not have to wait 3 years but waiting times of up to 2 years are not uncommon for elective surgery.

I expect to have some basic leisure amenities if I live in a medium sized town. 

I expect schools to have more than £8 per pupil per year for resources (including paper, pens, online subscriptions etc). 
Most schools in QLD operate a 'school resources scheme' where parents pay around $300/year for the above. If you don't subscribe then you need to buy everything independently. Nothing is free like in UK schools.

I expect to have to work hard. 

I expect not to be given anything. 
 

I expect to pay tax and pay charges for other things. 

I expect to live in a reasonably clean environment, where the government/council at least tries to keep things clean, tidy and maintained.  
I don't think councils here are any better in that respect, there are just less people here making a mess.

Are these expectations too high for one of the richest countries in the world? Or for a country that ‘sat on its collective arse’ as you put it for 2 years? (Offensive much).

I've clarified this in an earlier comment which you don't appear have to read; I don't recall saying 'everyone' was sat on their backsides for two years, but millions - in fact tens of millions - in developed nations around the world were. Supply chains which had taken decades to establish were shut down overnight. That combination of additional money in the economy chasing limited goods and services was the main cause of the inflation we're now dealing with, which is currently running at around 7% in both the UK and Australia.

People on this forum seem to be in denial. Yes your life might be OK but are you relatively as well off as you were 5 or 10 years ago? Do things feel positive? Is the outlook good for your kids/grandkids? Does your area have good community amenities? Do things feel well maintained and looked after?

I don't think they are not in denial, they (and I should probably include myself in this) have reached a point in our lives where we are relatively comfortable and grateful for what we have. We're aware that time is not on our side, and we want to make the best of it wherever we are. I'm not sure if you're aware but around half the regular posters on this forum have returned to the UK, and are clearly very happy with that choice. It's horses for courses.

@Cheery Thistle answers to your questions above.

[Blue Manna]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

 

How much of that is to do with changing trends? Kids and young adults do everything online these days. Plus they do new things. Went to play Airsoft the other day which was brilliant fun. Car park was packed. I got one of the last bays. Plus it's not cheap. Things are just different. Maybe it's a north south division, but I do go north occasionally and the restaurants and pubs are packed. Newish cars abound. Don't believe everything the guardian tells you. You don't get high inflation without high demand. Sure those on fixed income might struggle a bit, but most people I know are getting massive pay rises and there are jobs galore.

[Blue Manna]

2 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Break down a budget for me that includes rent and other necessities for an adult and child. I said it’s not possible to have a good/nice life. Survival might be possible!

It would be survival, and a major hick up could derail you. But it would be possible.