Unsure whether to return to UK

[Lomandra]

I'm 42, single, unfortunately no kids and moved to Australia with my (now ex) partner in 2009. I fell into a well paid job five or so years ago and own my own home here however I really want to return to the UK. My family has never been particularly close apart from my Auntie but my niece was born in October and after spending time there over Christmas it really reinforced how much I hate it and feel alone here. I'd been feeling that way for some years but I think this really highlighted it. I have no family here and a couple of good friends but nothing that is enough to keep me here. The problem is the cost of living in the UK and the very low wages. My job equivalent in the UK pays only £23,000 to start where as here it is an awful lot higher and financially I can't see how I could make it work when I'd have to pay rent and other living expenses out of that. My job is quite niche and whilst I have a degree I'm not really trained for anything else so would likely be in some close to minimum wage job over there. 

My brother suggested moving back for a year to see how I like it. He would be living here if it wasn't for his wife who won't be so far away from his family and says I'll hate the dark nights, no beaches, high cost of living etc but for me it's the pull of my family and my new niece and missing out on events. I missed his wedding due to covid lockdown among other things. I have a cat who I would want to return with me which makes things harder too, not to mention it seems I'd end up having to pay tax in two countries in that year so financially that would be a hit too. This is all assuming my work would allow me a year's leave without pay and to work in the UK. If not then there is another quandary of whether to quit a job that I would prob struggle to get back into if I did return. Ultimately my job is the only thing keeping me here and the salary and having so much disposable income compared to what I would in the UK where I'd struggle to make ends meet.

I just feel stuck and trapped here. Reading some other posts it seems that there is a mixture of people who have returned and loved it and people who hated it and come back. It's such a big decision and I worry that whatever I do it'll be the wrong one!

[Marisawright]

Don't listen to people in the UK, who think Australia is a land of permanent sun and lazing on beaches. You know that warm sun is nice --but relentless, blistering-hot sun is not so pleasant. You now appreciate the value of a cool, misty day.  You also know that you have to work for a living, do the shopping, and all the other necessities of life, so you're definitely not able to laze on the beach all day.   You also know that yes, the UK has dark nights but it also has deliciously long, light evenings in summer, which Australia never gets.  

In summary, your brother is comparing British reality with an Australian golden dream.  Even if he's visited you, he's only seen "holiday Australia".  It's not valid. 

The cat's air fare will cost more than yours, but at least there's no quarantine to pay for. It's not a huge deal. 

It sounds as though, if work wasn't a problem, you'd be gone tomorrow.  Is that a fair observation?  If that's the case, then perhaps you need a game plan.  I suggest:

• Stay in Australia for a few more years. 
• Save furiously.  Get some financial advice from someone who understands both UK and Australian investments/tax, to see whether you should put the savings into super or invest outside or pay off the mortgage or whatever.
• Make sure you're paying your National Insurance contributions, so you'll get the pension when you go back to the UK, because you'll never get the Aussie pension if you leave before retirement age.

If you know you have an exit plan, you may find living in Australia more bearable. It's the feeling that you're stuck forever that makes it worse. I would plan to move back before you turn 50, so you've got time to get yourself settled in the UK and have a chance to build up private pensions etc before you're ready to retire. 

 

 

[Johnny Kash]

With your current job, is there the option of taking 6 months or a year unpaid leave?

That way its more of a low risk option whereby you would still have your job waiting for you if you decide to return.    Guy at my work (Aussie) is doing this the other way around - going to London for 6-8 months, if he loves it he'll just not come back !

The tricky variable in this is your house which you own.   Financially you would likely do quite well in terms of Aussie house prices (without knowing your exact situation) and the current exchange rate means you would be doing quite well again in terms of AUD to GBP if you did sell, giving you a decent sum to set up back in the UK.

You could choose to rent it out whilst you decide but that just adds another layer of complexity IMO.  

 

[Lomandra]

Thank you for your reply Marisa  If I could get a job that paid the equivalent or even close to what I get here I'd be on the plane as we speak!

My brother lived out here for a couple of years. He and his wife are both doctors so were raking it in and have time off and go away whenever they wanted and lived in a lovely area etc but she is very close for her family and wanted to return to the UK. Whilst I earn a liveable wage that is a bit above the average from what I see it certainly isn't comparable to what they'd have earned so what I spend my free time doing is very different to what they would have been able to do!

I am thinking at the earliest six months to a year to save but it's time I am missing out on with my niece the longer I'm here. Can you recommend any financial advisers that have knowledge of both? I had never even considered paying NI contributions whilst over here. I think I'd just assumed that people automatically get the pension at a certain age. I would still have a small amount of super but still not enough to live on so would need a pension at this stage.

I feel I need to move back this year - at least a trial year to see if I do like it. It's been so long since I've lived over there and I haven't spent much time back since that whilst it's very familiar it is all very different.

[Lomandra]

Thanks for the reply Johnny. Why does that add another complexity if I was to rent it out? I had thought that was the safer option so I would have somewhere to return to if I did decide to. 

I am going to look into taking unpaid leave but I am not sure they will approve it even though it's an option according to the leave policy but I think it's at their discretion.

I was so pleased when I bought my first home a few years ago but now I wish I hadn't as it's more ties and adds more problems into the mix. I should likely be able to sell for at least $100,000 more than I paid (it's not an expensive house) which would allow me some money to take over but I don't want to be spending all my money or lose my house when as a single woman it's security for me that I'll have somewhere to live

[Johnny Kash]

11 minutes ago, Lomandra said:

Thanks for the reply Johnny. Why does that add another complexity if I was to rent it out? I had thought that was the safer option so I would have somewhere to return to if I did decide to. 

I am going to look into taking unpaid leave but I am not sure they will approve it even though it's an option according to the leave policy but I think it's at their discretion.

I was so pleased when I bought my first home a few years ago but now I wish I hadn't as it's more ties and adds more problems into the mix. I should likely be able to sell for at least $100,000 more than I paid (it's not an expensive house) which would allow me some money to take over but I don't want to be spending all my money or lose my house when as a single woman it's security for me that I'll have somewhere to live

just with the worry of renting out your main asset on the other side of the world, tax implications,  etc.

I did it the other way around for 6 years (flat in Edinburgh rented out whilst living here) and to be honest it was a worry.   Fortunately for me I never had non paying tenants or the like - if that does happen youre putting your faith in the agents to sort everything, so need to find a good one.   Most just want to take their cut for doing very little work - just my experience and opinion, Im sure there are good ones out there.  Theres not much you can do from over here if something major does go wrong.

Its also less of a clean break and means you still have a huge financial commitment in the country youre looking at leaving behind.  If you think the UK is the place you want to be then I would sell up and use that money to help with set up costs and then buy over there.

Just my opinion of course - best of luck with it, at least you have options

[Marisawright]

45 minutes ago, Lomandra said:

I am thinking at the earliest six months to a year to save but it's time I am missing out on with my niece the longer I'm here. Can you recommend any financial advisers that have knowledge of both? I had never even considered paying NI contributions whilst over here. I think I'd just assumed that people automatically get the pension at a certain age.

Definitely look into paying NI contributions, because if you don't, you may find you get little or no UK pension if you decide to retire there.   Unlike the Aussie pension (which is based on residency), the UK pension is based on what you paid in. 

One worry, if you don't have a lot of savings, is that you won't ever get the Australian pension if you go back to the UK now. Your super will go on growing, but you won't get the govt pension.So you really need to have as much of the UK pension as you can get.

I'd start with @Alan Collett

[Sloth]

6 hours ago, Lomandra said:

Thanks for the reply Johnny. Why does that add another complexity if I was to rent it out? I had thought that was the safer option so I would have somewhere to return to if I did decide to. 

I am going to look into taking unpaid leave but I am not sure they will approve it even though it's an option according to the leave policy but I think it's at their discretion.

I was so pleased when I bought my first home a few years ago but now I wish I hadn't as it's more ties and adds more problems into the mix. I should likely be able to sell for at least $100,000 more than I paid (it's not an expensive house) which would allow me some money to take over but I don't want to be spending all my money or lose my house when as a single woman it's security for me that I'll have somewhere to live

There are possible tax implications if you rent your house out, decide not to return to Australia, and subsequently sell the house as a foreign resident.

https://atlaswealth.com/news/selling-australian-real-estate-as-an-expat/

[Jehwal]

On 26/01/2023 at 18:29, Lomandra said:

I'm 42, single, unfortunately no kids and moved to Australia with my (now ex) partner in 2009. I fell into a well paid job five or so years ago and own my own home here however I really want to return to the UK. My family has never been particularly close apart from my Auntie but my niece was born in October and after spending time there over Christmas it really reinforced how much I hate it and feel alone here. I'd been feeling that way for some years but I think this really highlighted it. I have no family here and a couple of good friends but nothing that is enough to keep me here. The problem is the cost of living in the UK and the very low wages. My job equivalent in the UK pays only £23,000 to start where as here it is an awful lot higher and financially I can't see how I could make it work when I'd have to pay rent and other living expenses out of that. My job is quite niche and whilst I have a degree I'm not really trained for anything else so would likely be in some close to minimum wage job over there. 

My brother suggested moving back for a year to see how I like it. He would be living here if it wasn't for his wife who won't be so far away from his family and says I'll hate the dark nights, no beaches, high cost of living etc but for me it's the pull of my family and my new niece and missing out on events. I missed his wedding due to covid lockdown among other things. I have a cat who I would want to return with me which makes things harder too, not to mention it seems I'd end up having to pay tax in two countries in that year so financially that would be a hit too. This is all assuming my work would allow me a year's leave without pay and to work in the UK. If not then there is another quandary of whether to quit a job that I would prob struggle to get back into if I did return. Ultimately my job is the only thing keeping me here and the salary and having so much disposable income compared to what I would in the UK where I'd struggle to make ends meet.

I just feel stuck and trapped here. Reading some other posts it seems that there is a mixture of people who have returned and loved it and people who hated it and come back. It's such a big decision and I worry that whatever I do it'll be the wrong one!

Totally understand, i think many of us dream of going home one day. I would definitely give the one year over there a go. I know you worry about the job here but you will never know if you don't give it a go. As you don't have to consider anyone else j would put a plan in place for a one year trial. You will feel better knowing you you worked on it for yourself 

[Quoll]

Start by checking out the job market and apply for the job you would kill for.  If you don't escape now, you probably won't go and if being with family is important to you then give it a go. Take a career break and fly. 

[Blue Flu]

Not having kids may well ease the pathway if you do decide to return. Saying that, I wouldn't leave it too much longer as still young enough to reestablish. 

There are most certainly tax implications if wanting to maintain and rent out Australian house. All Aussie earnings if living abroad will be taxed on first dollar earned. With that and all the costs around in agent fees , possible bad tenants, and so on (could name a few more) besides capital gains if decide to sell from abroad , simply questions the validity in maintaining such a property. 

If unsure if staying in UK long term, then obviously better to wait. The only other thing not of a personal nature in deciding to return would be the state of the NHS. 

[Lomandra]

I messaged Alan Collett who said a member of his team would contact me today which they haven't so I'm hoping I'll hear from them tomorrow. Hopefully that will clear up some of my questions. 

It just seems 'too hard' to do it and I just wish I'd never moved to this country!

The thought of having to reestablish in the UK is not a good thought. Seems a daunting prospect when I am comfortable here with my house and job and knowing I'd be going to a tiny house and badly paid job barely scraping by isn't great. I don't have anything here to stay for or enjoy being here anymore so I have to force myself to do it! I think it's harder making the decision to move as I'm doing it as a single woman now.

Why is it so hard to make decisions as an adult!

[Marisawright]

36 minutes ago, Lomandra said:

Seems a daunting prospect when I am comfortable here with my house and job and knowing I'd be going to a tiny house and badly paid job barely scraping by isn't great. I don't have anything here to stay for or enjoy being here anymore so I have to force myself to do it! I think it's harder making the decision to move as I'm doing it as a single woman now.

If it's really going to be that hard, then perhaps planning to retire to the UK is a more sensible option?   That way, you can keep saving from your higher salary in Australia, while still affording holidays to visit your family.  

If you decide to do that, then I'd say paying your National Insurance contributions would be essential:  you must be able to claim the maximum UK pension, since you won't be able to claim the Australian one from the UK.  Also talk to Alan's people about whether you should be contributin extra to superannuation or not, if you plan to retire abroad.  

Fail to plan, and you'll find yourself like too many Brits who thought they'd retire home one day, then get to retirement age and find they can't afford it. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Marisawright

[emanyalpsid]

With national insurance I think you only have to april to be able to top up missing contributions back to 2006? Its good value to buy the contributions so I'd look into that

[FirstWorldProblems]

2 hours ago, Lomandra said:

It just seems 'too hard' to do it and I just wish I'd never moved to this country!

The thought of having to reestablish in the UK is not a good thought. Seems a daunting prospect when I am comfortable here with my house and job and knowing I'd be going to a tiny house and badly paid job barely scraping by isn't great. I don't have anything here to stay for or enjoy being here anymore so I have to force myself to do it! I think it's harder making the decision to move as I'm doing it as a single woman now.

Why is it so hard to make decisions as an adult!

On the job front, the market is pretty hot right now with people able to command large salary increases as they move jobs.   With workforce shortages you can also set your sights on roles that you might not be fully qualified/experienced for.  There is a lot more flexibility coming from employers right now who are motivated to recruit.

As a side note, as any HR person will tell you, speaking in broad terms women tend to be reluctant to apply for a job if they don't meet all of the advertised criteria for that roles whereas men tend to go for it if they just meet more than half of them.  So don't hold back - you might well be able to secure a role paying more than you think

[Lomandra]

UPDATE - I'm still in Australia and still wanting to move back to the UK except I'm now pregnant. It was planned and there is no father so I will be doing it alone. I don't want my child to grow up in another country away from all its family and I believe it would have a better standard of education and the country is less divisive over there. I've tried to look into benefits I would be eligible for and I think it's about 300 pounds a week which doesn't seem much at all, especially when you factor in living, etc. I'm not sure even if I would be eligible as I've not lived there since 2009. I plan to ring them on Monday assuming I can ring an 0800 number from Australia and ask them but I just wondered if anyone had moved when pregnant or knew of eligibility for child benefits and the like after returning please?

My thoughts are I could move over as late in pregnancy as I can and then get a rental set up before the birth, keep my things in storage and rent out my house just in case I do decide to move back. Then I could take my maternity leave from work and unpaid leave for a year whilst I give it a go in the UK and then see what happens.. I know my Aus maternity pay from work would get paid into my Aus account so financially that wouldn't be ideal as I'd lose money transferring it but I figure if I sell my car before I go - worst case $20,000 - then transfer that that would help and then UK child benefits as I wouldn't be able to get Aus and then after 6 - 9 months mat leave try to find a UK job and see how that works out for the next year before making the final decision.

I know I need to make a decision and plans NOW given that I'm on a strict timeframe!

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Lomandra

[Nemesis]

5 hours ago, Lomandra said:

UPDATE - I'm still in Australia and still wanting to move back to the UK except I'm now pregnant. It was planned and there is no father so I will be doing it alone. I don't want my child to grow up in another country away from all its family and I believe it would have a better standard of education and the country is less divisive over there. I've tried to look into benefits I would be eligible for and I think it's about 300 pounds a week which doesn't seem much at all, especially when you factor in living, etc. I'm not sure even if I would be eligible as I've not lived there since 2009. I plan to ring them on Monday assuming I can ring an 0800 number from Australia and ask them but I just wondered if anyone had moved when pregnant or knew of eligibility for child benefits and the like after returning please?

My thoughts are I could move over as late in pregnancy as I can and then get a rental set up before the birth, keep my things in storage and rent out my house just in case I do decide to move back. Then I could take my maternity leave from work and unpaid leave for a year whilst I give it a go in the UK and then see what happens.. I know my Aus maternity pay from work would get paid into my Aus account so financially that wouldn't be ideal as I'd lose money transferring it but I figure if I sell my car before I go - worst case $20,000 - then transfer that that would help and then UK child benefits as I wouldn't be able to get Aus and then after 6 - 9 months mat leave try to find a UK job and see how that works out for the next year before making the final decision.

I know I need to make a decision and plans NOW given that I'm on a strict timeframe!

 

Not knowing your personal circumstances (and not asking you to reveal anything you aren't comfortable with, of course), although you say there is no father, there obviously is a male involved somewhere along the line. If there is any possibility at all that he might try and be involved with the baby, then I'd advise you to make sure you get out of Australia and back home fairly quickly - don't run the risk of leaving it to near the end and find you you can't travel for medical reasons. If the male person decides they want to be involved they could stop you and the baby leaving the country.  

Of course, in your personal circumstances it may not be relevant, but I just wanted you to be aware. 

[tea4too]

Also, if you haven't already, check airline policies regarding flights and pregnancy, a quick look suggests few issues up to 28 weeks, a medical certificate 28-32 weeks and a reluctance to facilitate travel after 32 weeks. 

The UK benefit system is notoriously complex but the government benefit checker might help. Check out the 'habitual residency test' too. www.gov.uk/check-benefits-financial-support

It varies but rental property in the UK can be difficult to secure in many places. 'Rightmove' will help provide an insight into what is currently available in your preferred area, the prices, deposit and such like. Managed tenancies tend to use checking services that require verification of income, savings, credit score and possibly references or a named guarantor.

On a more general note, while I understand your reasons for postponing any relocation until later in the pregnancy I can't help but think you are contemplating some huge changes at a time when you a likely to be both physically and emotionally vulnerable. Take care of yourself, involve trusted friends and family to make enquiries and manage practicalities where possible. And lists...I am a great one for lists, if only for the boost of crossing things off. T x 

[Marisawright]

@Lomandra, my reaction would be, if you're going to go, go.  As a single mother, once you've moved, you won't be able to afford to move back again, so it's better to make up your mind that it's all or nothing.

It's unlikely you'll be entitled to benefits when you first arrive because you're not "habitually resident" in the UK.  

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/getting-benefits-if-youve-recently-moved-to-the-UK

[Lomandra]

19 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Not knowing your personal circumstances (and not asking you to reveal anything you aren't comfortable with, of course), although you say there is no father, there obviously is a male involved somewhere along the line. If there is any possibility at all that he might try and be involved with the baby, then I'd advise you to make sure you get out of Australia and back home fairly quickly - don't run the risk of leaving it to near the end and find you you can't travel for medical reasons. If the male person decides they want to be involved they could stop you and the baby leaving the country.  

Of course, in your personal circumstances it may not be relevant, but I just wanted you to be aware. 

The only male I've been involved with to get pregnant is my IVF doctor. lol 

[Lomandra]

I've been reading about the habitual residency and that puts a huge spanner in the works. I am going to have to work out my finances and see if it's feasible. I'm desperate to move back to the UK and it's not an emotional, hormonal decision as I've been wanting to return for a few years now. The pregnancy has just made me realise I do not want to bring my child up in this country and away from family. I'm on my own over here, no family and only a handful of friends so would have no support and nobody for my child to grow up around. Memories at my grandparents and with aunts and uncles and cousins are some of my most treasured and I want my child to have that, especially since it won't have a father.

Also, my father has gone back into hospital overnight and it just really makes it real how far away we are here when things happen. I don't want to miss out on family time. I've already missed 14 years of it.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Lomandra

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, Lomandra said:

The only male I've been involved with to get pregnant is my IVF doctor. lol 

Thats great, hope I didn't cause any offence but I know people who have been caught out by thinking "father" wasn't interested. 

My niece has just had a little girl through IVF, absolutely lovely baby, hope you are as happy when your time comes!  

[kmrg]

Lomandra I am the same age as you and had a baby in NSW at age 38 through IVF, despite a smooth pregnancy I was classed as high risk. Not sure if you are registered with a midwife yet, but I would explain your plans to any midwife / doctor and see if there are any implications with your pregnancy which mean you are classed as high risk and whether this means you would need to travel earlier in the pregnancy if flying long haul. It may be good to speak to HR at your work and find out the earliest date you would be allowed to take maternity leave from. 

Also do you have the option of staying with family once you arrive back in the UK, I am also currently looking at possibly moving back and it seems there are a lot of things that you won't be able to set up until back on the ground. 

Best wishes, and I hope it all works out for you. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by kmrg

[Cheery Thistle]

Think really really hard about financial implications. I totally understand the pull of family but £23k salary is really not sufficient for a single person, never mind someone with a child. If you intend to work childcare is really really expensive (unless relatives can do it, but it’s a big ask if it’s full time). There is no childcare subsidy until the child is 3, at that point you get 30 hours free childcare at a council run nursery until the child is school age. There is no financial help with wraparound care once they are at school. A day in a private nursery will set you back anywhere between £50-70 per day. 
You could sell your house and car, use that as a financial cushion for the first year or 2 and then see if you can do additional training or something into a better-paid job? 
Also see if you can maybe stay with family for a while? Rentals are expensive and demand is massively outstripping supply (I rented out a 2 bed in Edinburgh recently and had literally over 100 enquiries in 2 days). Average rent for a one bed is £650 a month which sounds cheap to Aussies but when you’re on a £23k salary and add in all the other expenses it’s really not. 
I’m really sorry to hear that your dad is unwell, that must be a nightmare and so heart-wrenching. Wish you all the best and hope it works out. 

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Think really really hard about financial implications. I totally understand the pull of family but £23k salary is really not sufficient for a single person, never mind someone with a child. If you intend to work childcare is really really expensive (unless relatives can do it, but it’s a big ask if it’s full time). There is no childcare subsidy until the child is 3, at that point you get 30 hours free childcare at a council run nursery until the child is school age. There is no financial help with wraparound care once they are at school. A day in a private nursery will set you back anywhere between £50-70 per day. 
You could sell your house and car, use that as a financial cushion for the first year or 2 and then see if you can do additional training or something into a better-paid job? 
Also see if you can maybe stay with family for a while? Rentals are expensive and demand is massively outstripping supply (I rented out a 2 bed in Edinburgh recently and had literally over 100 enquiries in 2 days). Average rent for a one bed is £650 a month which sounds cheap to Aussies but when you’re on a £23k salary and add in all the other expenses it’s really not. 
I’m really sorry to hear that your dad is unwell, that must be a nightmare and so heart-wrenching. Wish you all the best and hope it works out. 

Child subsidy giving 30 hours free for children over 3 isn’t the only help.  If a parent is on universal credit (which they would be if earning a low income) then they would be entitled to childcare help which can be up to 85% of the cost.  There is no minimum age for that to start.  Note that the poster may not qualify for universal credit for a while due to resident status but I think you were suggesting she’d have no childcare help until the child was three which isn’t correct.  As for rentals, they are high but it depends where she is moving to.  Some places are still quite cheap.  My worry is she would struggle to get a rental if not earning.  Most landlords won’t take people on benefits.  As you say, it’s hard enough getting a rental in the first place.  If you don’t have a secure job I’d imagine near impossible.  The council would have to house her somewhere as no mother with a newborn will be on the streets but it’s likely to be a B&B somewhere of low quality.  Again, not sure where the residency part comes in there.