Unsure whether to return to UK

[Tulip1]

2 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

 

For every place struggling like where you live there is a place thriving.  I see no sign of struggles  where I live and I’m not aware of anything closing down.  On the contrary, I see people happy and enjoying life.  I’ve no doubt people have less money to spend than a few years ago but it’s certainly not all doom and gloom.  I read recently over 71% of adults in the UK have booked an overseas holiday this year and many that wish to holiday in the UK can’t find anywhere to rent/stay as everything is booked up.  These facts don't scream everyone is struggling.   On my local Facebook pages are constant questions asked of people - can anyone recommend a cleaner, puppy classes, where I can get a spray tan, nails done, gym classes, kids clubs.  The list goes on.  These are not the requests you’d get if things were really bad.  I know for some it’s terrible but reading the things on here you’d think everyone is walking about in a whirl of hopelessness and despair.  I am very aware some are struggling and the economy isn’t the best but to balance it I’ve put how things are in other parts of the UK.  

Edited August 27, 2023 by Tulip1

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

So @InnerVoice asked what I expect? 

I expect to be able to get an emergency dentist appointment within a week. 
There are free/low cost dental hospitals in Australia but you'll wait months for an appointment.  90% of people see a private dentist.   I had my 6-monthly check-up last week.  No work needed, just a clean and polish.  It cost me $200 even though I have private health insurance (private insurance has an excess on each claim).   If your child needs braces, it will cost you $6,000 to $10,000.

I expect not to have to wait 3 years for an operation. 
You'll find it's not much different in Australia.  I have a friend who's been waiting to see an asthma specialist in the public system for 6 months. However Australians are much more likely to take out private health insurance and have operations done in the private system.  However you do have to pay.  It will typically cost you about $200 to see a specialist.  Operations are expensive. I had a spinal fusion which cost $35,000 of which my private health insurance paid $25,000.  So I'm still $10,000 out of pocket.

I expect schools to have more than £8 per pupil per year for resources (including paper, pens, online subscriptions etc). 
In Australia, the parents pay for those things, not the school.

I should say that we don't see these as things to complain about, they are just the way things work in Australia, and of course they are partly offset by the higher salaries paid in some occupations.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Marisawright

[tea4too]

@Cheery Thistle The issues you raise are worthy of debate however, while all opinions are valid, reflecting that people happily living in the UK are in denial because they don't share your view is questionable and more likely to push the thread further off track, rather than supporting those 'expats using this part of the forum to discuss the move back.' Perhaps a separate thread in Chewing the Fat would be more appropriate? Either way, as I'm not sure I can add much to the practical advice and support already provided I wish the OP well, and will leave it at that. T x

[Cheery Thistle]

1 hour ago, InnerVoice said:

@Cheery Thistle answers to your questions above.

@InnerVoice I didn’t ask any questions. 
 

I didn’t mention free dental treatment either. I pay for private treatment here - still can’t get a dentist appointment!  I have an NHS dentist but have to pay for a lot of my treatment privately. The quality is not fabulous either. It’s a bare minimum service. 
 

Maybe you’re right, I should just put up and shut up, why expect or hope for anything better. 
 

You know there’s one thing that most societies need to be happy places and that’s to feel like they are progressing. 
 

Regarding the denial, I think I mean that people like to just stay in their own little bubble and because they can’t see decline they like to pretend or deny that it’s happening. I can’t live with my blinders on. 

@Marisawright my husband couldn’t walk and was told he wouldn’t get a consultant appointment (never mind an operation ) for 2 years. We paid privately for it. He developed subsequent complications and I had to drive him 30 miles in the back seat of my car literally with one of his discs pressing on his spinal cord because it was going to be a 15 hour wait for an ambulance. Got to the 2nd hospital to find there were no wheelchairs available in A and E. He is extremely lucky not to be paralysed. It was a totally traumatic experience. 
 

I do agree that maybe there’s a generation gap going on here. Many of you don’t have young children and I think that probably affects your view on things quite a lot. For me, am I happy bringing my daughter up in an environment that I consider to be worse than the one I grew up in? The answer is no. 

[Cheery Thistle]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

 

Did you have something to add, or just ganging up on me? 

[Nemesis]

10 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I don't recall saying 'everyone' was sat on their backsides for two years, but millions - in fact tens of millions - in developed nations around the world were. Supply chains which had taken decades to establish were shut down overnight. That combination of additional money in the economy chasing limited goods and services was the main cause of the inflation we're now dealing with, which is currently running at around 7% in both the UK and Australia.

As Marisa said, housing affordability is our biggest challenge. The median property price in England and Wales is around £275,000, which is easily £100,000 less than over here. Once my fixed rate period ends next year my mortgage will be roughly half my net income, and my salary is well above average for regional Australia. I have two teaching colleagues who are now working second jobs to make ends meet, and no one seems to be buying a new car or taking overseas holidays this year. I still feel life is better over here but there are a lot more people doing it tough at the moment - that's all I'm saying.

I was back in the UK 5 years ago, and even then I was shocked by the social decline compared with when I last lived there (2008-11). I wouldn't dispute for a moment that things have got worse since the pandemic, but given the choice of living in Middle England or the middle of Australia, I know which I'd choose every time. And whilst my view of UK may not be up-to-date, I am probably in a better position to make a comparison between the two countries than a person who has never visited one of them.

Most people come to this forum for advice or support, and the OP would seem to be in the latter category. After 14 years she can't find that sense of belonging here that she believes she will find back in the UK, so all this talk about where she'll be better off is purely arbitrary - she's going back. Personally, if I was in her shoes then I'd want to be sure that the family support network she is hoping for is going to be there, or it maybe a decision she regrets.

There's more to it than the family thing. If you are somewhere that you feel you fit into it makes everything easier just because its familiar.

I have to count every penny I spend, my family couldn't give a rat's arse which side of the world I'm on, but I'm home, and I feel I belong, and THAT is what makes everything worthwhile. 

[Nemesis]

10 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

It's really not. Go out to a garden centre, London, a national trust property and you will see heaps of people out and about making the most of our sometimes unpredictable weather. The country is doing too well actually. I hate queuing, but everywhere it's so busy you have to queue.  

Go to Brighton beach this weekend. Its windy but its still busy. And the many I saw yesterday were laughing, having fun, enjoying themselves. Train strike? People still seem to have found their way here. Pubs and hotels are booming  

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

There's more to it than the family thing. If you are somewhere that you feel you fit into it makes everything easier just because its familiar.

I have to count every penny I spend, my family couldn't give a rat's arse which side of the world I'm on, but I'm home, and I feel I belong, and THAT is what makes everything worthwhile. 

I’m pleased you’ve found your happy place.  Nothing matters as much as being happy and everyone deserves to go after that even when others think you’re daft.  You knew what you wanted, good on you.  

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Did you have something to add, or just ganging up on me? 

I accidentally added my comments within your  quoted text instead of underneath.  

[InnerVoice]

10 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Did you have something to add, or just ganging up on me? 

 

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I accidentally added my comments within your  quoted text instead of underneath.  

You basically restated what I'd said but with a bit more detail, so it did look a bit like we were ganging up to be fair.

[Marisawright]

@Cheery Thistle, yes, there is a generation gap, and that means we're seeing things with a longer-term lens.   

You may feel your children will have a better life in Australia.  You may be right or you may be wrong.  In the short-term, you may find you're right. But talk to some older parents in Australia, whose children are now over 30 and still living at home because they can't afford to rent or buy a home of their own, and you may get a different opinion.  Economies change.  Who knows where either country will be when your children are grown up.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Marisawright

[InnerVoice]

11 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

@InnerVoice I didn’t ask any questions.

I do agree that maybe there’s a generation gap going on here. Many of you don’t have young children and I think that probably affects your view on things quite a lot. For me, am I happy bringing my daughter up in an environment that I consider to be worse than the one I grew up in? The answer is no. 

@Cheery Thistle well they did look like a list of questions, unless they were rhetorical ones? I certainly wasn't trying to gang up on you. I genuinely thought you wanted answers to those questions.

I think it's fair to say that you're living in a part of the UK where there's been significant decline and social deprivation in recent years, so your opinion of the country is likely to a lot different than someone living somewhere nice like Bournemouth or Brighton. Secondly, the other posters in this thread have said they're happy to take the rough with the smooth because UK is home to them, so any logical discussion about where one might be better off isn't going to be relevant. The OP would seem to fall into this category too because she wants to return to the UK for the same reasons they have done, so there's not much point in asking her what it is about Australia she doesn't like. It's simply that it doesn't feel like home.

You and I are probably a lot alike in that we make decisions based on practicalities and perceived benefits, which is why I'm in Australia and not the UK. The overall quality of life is just better here for me. That said, it's not as good as it was when I first arrived mainly due to the cost of living. My property is worth about $850,000. I couldn't afford to buy anything close to that now based on the mortgage I could obtain with my annual income. When I first arrived in Australia I lived in Sydney for a year, but as soon as I worked out I would be renting forever I was off to pastures new. I would never dissuade any one from emigrating here, it's still a great country - but they should avoid the whole 'Australia good / UK bad' mentality as that is likely to lead to disappointment further down the line.

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

@Cheery Thistle, yes, there is a generation gap, and that means we're seeing things with a longer-term lens.   

You may feel your children will have a better life in Australia.  You may be right or you may be wrong.  In the short-term, you may find you're right. But talk to some older parents in Australia, whose children are now over 30 and still living at home because they can't afford to rent or buy a home of their own, and you may get a different opinion.  Economies change.  Who knows where either country will be when your children are grown up.

Its an interesting comment about the children over 30. One of the things I remember from talking with younger colleagues in Brisbane was that they couldn't understand how ordinary (ie not rich) people like me could afford to leave home and go to university miles from home. For them the norm was to live at home while studying, and the idea of leaving home at 18 and going out into the big wide world was a bit alien. The notion of going through the whole find a flat, pay rent, live a long way from home and have no family support was just odd to them. But most of us in the 80s did it, it was how you lived. OMG who would want to go to university in your home town and go home to your parents every night? The very idea ruined the lifestyle!

[Cheery Thistle]

8 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

@Cheery Thistle well they did look like a list of questions, unless they were rhetorical ones? I certainly wasn't trying to gang up on you. I genuinely thought you wanted answers to those questions.

I think it's fair to say that you're living in a part of the UK where there's been significant decline and social deprivation in recent years, so your opinion of the country is likely to a lot different than someone living somewhere nice like Bournemouth or Brighton. Secondly, the other posters in this thread have said they're happy to take the rough with the smooth because UK is home to them, so any logical discussion about where one might be better off isn't going to be relevant. The OP would seem to fall into this category too because she wants to return to the UK for the same reasons they have done, so there's not much point in asking her what it is about Australia she doesn't like. It's simply that it doesn't feel like home.

You and I are probably a lot alike in that we make decisions based on practicalities and perceived benefits, which is why I'm in Australia and not the UK. The overall quality of life is just better here for me. That said, it's not as good as it was when I first arrived mainly due to the cost of living. My property is worth about $850,000. I couldn't afford to buy anything close to that now based on the mortgage I could obtain with my annual income. When I first arrived in Australia I lived in Sydney for a year, but as soon as I worked out I would be renting forever I was off to pastures new. I would never dissuade any one from emigrating here, it's still a great country - but they should avoid the whole 'Australia good / UK bad' mentality as that is likely to lead to disappointment further down the line.

Agree with you there. I don’t really have an ‘Australia good’ mentality but I know what I see around me here is not great. So maybe I’m developing a ‘UK bad’ mentality. 

Bournemouth. Really?

 My sister in law has lived there for 25 years and has a 21 year old son. Lives in Charminster. His friend was stabbed on Old Christchurch Rd in Bournemouth in June and has life-changing injuries. https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/23596903.two-people-stabbed-old-christchurch-road-bournemouth/
 

Stabbings there are now a weekly occurrence and she says the place has changed beyond all recognition in the past 10 years. Needless to say my sister in law is distraught and worries about her lad all the time. And he’s quite sensible as 21 year old boys go! 
 

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/23705726.bournemouth-murder-probe-anti-knife-march-held/

These are not ‘rough’ people. He is at Uni studying business and has been on a work placement with Disney in London for the past year. He is hoping to get a WHV for Aus once he has graduated. 
 

By the by, I think everyone here assumes I am living in some deprived hell hole, like Easterhouse or Castlemilk which is not the case. I live in a commuter town about 15 miles from Edinburgh, very close to the Airport. I live in a private estate with above your stated average house prices of £275k. We both have decent jobs. It’s a ‘normal’ town - not a deprived s*ithole. Nor is it an affluent pocket. 
 

The town used to have excellent amenities but sadly, these seem to be closing one by one due to budget cuts. 

[Marisawright]

13 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Agree with you there. I don’t really have an ‘Australia good’ mentality but I know what I see around me here is not great. So maybe I’m developing a ‘UK bad’ mentality. 

That's the kind of vibe we've been getting, I think, which is why we might be going a bit overboard trying to balance that out.  We do see a lot of migrants who either badmouth the UK more and more in the lead-up to their move or build Australia up more and more.  Either way, it's a recipe for an unhappy migration, because they'll be expecting a big improvement when they move, and the differences between the countries aren't really that great.  Then they come back to post on here about how disappointed they are, and they never quite get over it and ultimately end up going home.  So I hope we've misread you.

BTW I agree with you about Bournemouth.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Marisawright

[FirstWorldProblems]

1 minute ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Agree with you there. I don’t really have an ‘Australia good’ mentality but I know what I see around me here is not great. So maybe I’m developing a ‘UK bad’ mentality.  

For some people, what we need periodically is a change.   For me, and I've observed this in some others too, an opportunity to shrug off the weight that accumulates on our shoulders gradually from life's hassles, challenges, stresses and occasional disappointments has a re-energising effect.  Starting again (be it migration, new job etc) is a reset.  It probably won't be any better or any worse, but it will be fresh and different and invigorating.

[Cheery Thistle]

7 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

For some people, what we need periodically is a change.   For me, and I've observed this in some others too, an opportunity to shrug off the weight that accumulates on our shoulders gradually from life's hassles, challenges, stresses and occasional disappointments has a re-energising effect.  Starting again (be it migration, new job etc) is a reset.  It probably won't be any better or any worse, but it will be fresh and different and invigorating.

Exactly this. I don’t think it’s that I think somewhere else will be better necessarily. Do I think that the environment might be a bit better, and the climate a bit more conducive to not being stuck in the house 9 months a year? Yes.  Do I hope that this will positively impact my lifestyle? Yes.  Do I realise I will still have work, problems and worries? Yes. All of that and I am literally miles from my friends and family, so that will make it even harder. Of this I am aware and I have lived in 2 other countries in my life, albeit when I was younger and more footloose.

Since I did live abroad when I was younger, I know that there are different ways of living. They may not be ‘better’ but they probably suit me more. The reason I did not make the move when I was younger is that my husband had 2 young sons, who are now in their 20’s. Now I have the chance.  If Australia doesn’t work out we have already decided we won’t return to the UK. I am aware my Dad might die and I might not be here. That I will miss weddings and funerals. It makes me a bit sad, but then I think about my childhood and some of the decisions my parents made and I don’t feel so bad!!  

[Cheery Thistle]

23 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's the kind of vibe we've been getting, I think, which is why we might be going a bit overboard trying to balance that out.  We do see a lot of migrants who either badmouth the UK more and more in the lead-up to their move or build Australia up more and more.  Either way, it's a recipe for an unhappy migration, because they'll be expecting a big improvement when they move, and the differences between the countries aren't really that great.  Then they come back to post on here about how disappointed they are, and they never quite get over it and ultimately end up going home.  So I hope we've misread you.

BTW I agree with you about Bournemouth.

At least we agree on something! Hahaha! 
 

I am going to get absolute pelters for this but the uncontrolled immigration and delays in processing those seeking asylum has changed the face of coastal towns. Most of the hotels are full of people in temporary accommodation. Friends of my sister in law visited her in Bournemouth in May and couldn’t get a room due to hotels being full of people who can’t be housed. 
 

*Running for cover now* 

https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/23515812.high-court-bans-use-great-yarmouth-hotels-asylum-seekers/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64991234.amp

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Cheery Thistle

[InnerVoice]

21 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Agree with you there. I don’t really have an ‘Australia good’ mentality but I know what I see around me here is not great. So maybe I’m developing a ‘UK bad’ mentality. 

Bournemouth. Really?

 My sister in law has lived there for 25 years and has a 21 year old son. Lives in Charminster. His friend was stabbed on Old Christchurch Rd in Bournemouth in June and has life-changing injuries. https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/23596903.two-people-stabbed-old-christchurch-road-bournemouth/
 

Stabbings there are now a weekly occurrence and she says the place has changed beyond all recognition in the past 10 years. Needless to say my sister in law is distraught and worries about her lad all the time. And he’s quite sensible as 21 year old boys go! 
 

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/23705726.bournemouth-murder-probe-anti-knife-march-held/

These are not ‘rough’ people. He is at Uni studying business and has been on a work placement with Disney in London for the past year. He is hoping to get a WHV for Aus once he has graduated. 
 

By the by, I think everyone here assumes I am living in some deprived hell hole, like Easterhouse or Castlemilk which is not the case. I live in a commuter town about 15 miles from Edinburgh, very close to the Airport. I live in a private estate with above your stated average house prices of £275k. We both have decent jobs. It’s a ‘normal’ town - not a deprived s*ithole. Nor is it an affluent pocket. 
 

The town used to have excellent amenities but sadly, these seem to be closing one by one due to budget cuts. 

'Brighton and Bournemouth' are both lovely seaside towns I enjoyed visiting in the past. I could've said Brighton and Torquay, but it didn't have quite the same ring to it. Very sorry to learn that a friend of the family has been directly by violence there, but I think that could've happened anywhere. Knife crime is now endemic in Britain and it's starting to become a problem over here too.

[InnerVoice]

23 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

At least we agree on something! Hahaha! 

I am going to get absolute pelters for this but the uncontrolled immigration and delays in processing those seeking asylum has changed the face of coastal towns. Most of the hotels are full of people in temporary accommodation. Friends of my sister in law visited her in Bournemouth in May and couldn’t get a room due to hotels being full of people who can’t be housed. 

*Running for cover now* 

https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/23515812.high-court-bans-use-great-yarmouth-hotels-asylum-seekers/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64991234.amp

Every time the Brits whinge about the illegal migrant problem I think what a bunch of posies they are over there, and recall how much better we handled the same problem a decade ago. It's one of the things that makes me really proud to be Australia.

And for the record, they are not asylum seekers.

#peltmetoo

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64898507

[Cheery Thistle]

1 hour ago, InnerVoice said:

'Brighton and Bournemouth' are both lovely seaside towns I enjoyed visiting in the past. I could've said Brighton and Torquay, but it didn't have quite the same ring to it. Very sorry to learn that a friend of the family has been directly by violence there, but I think that could've happened anywhere. Knife crime is now endemic in Britain and it's starting to become a problem over here too.

Yes maybe. Actually just did a quick Google and knife crime has increased by 34% in England and Wales since 2010 but has actually decreased in Scotland. My gut feeling was that it’s not as bad up here and that seems to be confirmed by the stats. Our overall crime rate is also much lower with 93.6 crimes per 1000 people in England and just 52.8 per 1000 in Scotland. Interesting. Must have been the English who picked the fight with William Wallace, not the other way round hahahaha! 
 

Anyway I think I was just trying to counteract the idea that somehow I live in a deprived midden and places like Bournemouth are somehow ‘better’ or immune to these issues. They are not. 

 

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

Every time the Brits whinge about the illegal migrant problem I think what a bunch of posies they are over there, and recall how much better we handled the same problem a decade ago. It's one of the things that makes me really proud to be Australia.

And for the record, they are not asylum seekers.

#peltmetoo

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64898507

Brits have a right to whinge about the situation because their government is doing terrible over it.  Australia does handle it much better.  Britain is still ruled by Europe it seems who manage to block things like the Rwanda scheme.  The time taken to process them is not good enough and even when they fail and are told they have to leave handfuls of human rights lawyers appear and years later they’re still here.   

[Blue Manna]

12 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

Every time the Brits whinge about the illegal migrant problem I think what a bunch of posies they are over there, and recall how much better we handled the same problem a decade ago. It's one of the things that makes me really proud to be Australia.

And for the record, they are not asylum seekers.

#peltmetoo

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-64898507

The bloody remoaners who winge about the migrant problem really get my goat. We new it would get worse after Brexit. It was bleedingly obvious and clearly stated. But leaving the EU was more important. It was an abusive relationship and we needed to get out. All those who voted for Brexit, the clear majority were voting effectively for more illegals. We knew it would happen. We didn't care. The remoaners lost so just suck it up. All us Brexit voters are happy with the migrants. If a few economic migrants drown in the channel, then that's sad, but It's the price of freedom.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Blue Manna
Co

[InnerVoice]

9 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Brits have a right to whinge about the situation because their government is doing terrible over it.  Australia does handle it much better.  Britain is still ruled by Europe it seems who manage to block things like the Rwanda scheme.  The time taken to process them is not good enough and even when they fail and are told they have to leave handfuls of human rights lawyers appear and years later they’re still here.   

The Rwanda scheme was the stupidest idea ever. They should just send them back to France - that's where they're all coming from.

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Brits have a right to whinge about the situation because their government is doing terrible over it.  Australia does handle it much better.  Britain is still ruled by Europe it seems who manage to block things like the Rwanda scheme. 

If you read the article, it points out that the offshore settlement scheme in Australia (equivalent to the Rwanda idea) didn't stop the boats, and it was terribly inhumane.  What has worked is turning back the boats.