Decided NOT to retire in UK

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, Toots said:

Is that the Amis book about people in Wales?  That one was about well off old duffers.  It was funny in parts but also made me feel a bit uncomfortable too.

Not Wales. English countryside. Book was "Ending Up" . Must read it again. Quite comical in parts. 

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Toots said:

BF is Australian.

I also have a Scottish accent.  Been in Australia 40 years this month.  We've lived in Perth WA, Sydney and now retired to Tasmania.  There were so many Scottish people in Perth (over 30 years ago) my accent certainly never stood out.  In Sydney you hear accents from all over the world.  Never felt I didn't "fit in".  Here in Tassie there are many folk from the UK who migrated to Australia and have chosen to retire to Tassie. I hear accents from all different areas of the UK here.  I lived in Norfolk for 4 months, London for a year and Liverpool for nearly 4 years.  My accent was hardly ever commented on.  

Like you, I am friendly with everyone I meet and that includes Australians.    My husband of 46 years is Australian.

My accent still passably English though far less than once . Some ask South African or New Zealander as well. Never had an issue when had a more noticeable English accent. 

[Blue Flu]

5 hours ago, Toots said:

Oh for hivvens sake Mr Flu    Most  of us know by now you have no great affinity for your fellow West Australians   ............  Perth folk in particular but really   ........  all Australians!?  You make me laugh at times.  Goodness knows what sort of people you have had the misfortune to rub shoulders with to cause you such a feeling of (lets face it) intellectual superiority.  Loosen up a bit and enjoy life.  Stop taking everything so seriously.  Life is an adventure and that includes meeting people from all walks of life.

While more than happy to provide a spot of light entertainment to assist your day, I suspect my level of looseness in comparison  would make you appear positively robotic. As for Australians , I don't detect a lot of difference. But just to point I don't have a total inability to connect to human nature, have never encountered Canadians or many Americans to my recall where similar comments would be warranted. Brits a mixed bag. But of heavens sake, it was my take on being with a ship load of older Aussies which led to thoughts on 'fitting in' with like minded people in the future. Not a question of intellectual superiority, just a preference for interesting people with a few worldly views over and above their grand kids, their home, gossip and daily ship schedule something your last sentence that would in all fairness be better directed at those being referred to rather than myself. 

[ramot]

Having been an expat and lived in several countries, I know that retiring to live in Australia 18 years ago was the right thing for us to do. Pre covid We went back to UK most years for about 3 months, and caught up regularly with many friends of a similar age to ourselves. We definitely have a different mind set to most of them, hardly any of them have traveled  much, and still seem to only go away for a two weeks annual holiday, rather than taking advantage of being retired. I remember meeting up with a couple of our UK friends in NZ, and saying what a shame they hadn’t come and stayed with us in Qld, to be told ‘Oh we can’t stay away longer than 5/6 weeks as we have family and village commitments’. This was a once in a lifetime holiday,  Our friends are  all well educated and had responsible jobs, reasonably well off, but their lives revolve around their families and village or local life. I’m not criticising them, they are happy, but I find their life a bit boring. A get together is usually arranged at a local pub, when we visit our old village and everyone has a great time, some of them haven’t seen each other since our previous visit, and they all say they must meet up more regularly, but they don’t, it seems to take a visit from us to instigate it.

We are of course all different, and want and enjoy different things in retirement. There is absolutely no point in saying one country is better than the other. There are clubs and activities in both countries to suit most people, I prefer where we live for many reasons, I have  an interesting mix of friends, for instance  in my bridge group, English like me, 3rd 4th generation Australians, South African, Zimbabwean, Danish, Canadian, New Zealander,, such different backgrounds, had interesting and different  lives to me.There are so many clubs and activities and U3A here that I can join if I want to,  I prefer warm weather to cold weather, yes it’s hot and humid for 3 months, but you put the aircon on, just as you would put heating on in winter in UK. Finances of course influences your retirement decision, but wherever you end up, enjoy your retirement.

 

[Quoll]

Unfortunately we have come to much the same decision - it would be financially silly of us to move back to UK and hopefully if international travel starts again (I'm not as sanguine as many about the impact of the China virus and the ones that will follow) I will be able to get my sanity hits. It's financially the best decision for me but spiritually not. 

[Parley]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

Unfortunately we have come to much the same decision - it would be financially silly of us to move back to UK and hopefully if international travel starts again (I'm not as sanguine as many about the impact of the China virus and the ones that will follow) I will be able to get my sanity hits. It's financially the best decision for me but spiritually not. 

Only if you get fully vaccinated. Otherwise you aren't going anywhere.

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

 have never encountered Canadians or many Americans to my recall where similar comments would be warranted.

The question is, were those Canadians and Americans on their home soil, or did you meet them in Australia/France/some other country?

Ramot mentions her experience in the UK, of people who have never traveled much other than their two weeks' holiday a year, and whose lives revolve around village life and their family.  That's what I encountered too, and when I think about it, it would describe most of the society I grew up in.  In fact, when I grew up in Scotland, no one even went to Europe for their holidays.   I think we have all heard descriptions of American society where people's knowledge of the world outside their borders is even more limited.  

If you are meeting British or Canadian or American people who are living in another country, or even visiting on a prolonged trip, then they are not those people -- they are the exception. 

[Toots]

11 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Not Wales. English countryside. Book was "Ending Up" . Must read it again. Quite comical in parts. 

I've just looked for the Amis book I mentioned.  It's called Old Devils.  Very funny but as I said a bit uncomfortable in parts.  It's set in Wales and about a group of retired couples who seem to spend most of their time in the pub drinking.  They all knew each other at university. The fun and games start when two of their old friends arrive from England.  Rivalries and romance take off big time.

It's a drizzly day here so might put my feet up later and re-read it.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Toots

[DanO]

There is no doubt for me. Travel absolutely does broaden the mind!

I love the UK, but on my last visit I found it very much more parochial than I remembered it. The life experience of living overseas and especially somewhere as multi-cultural as Melbourne really does stretch your horizons. I know when relatives visited us here, they were constantly surprised by things which we take for granted here (car prices, petrol prices, range of fresh foods, coffee quality, blue skies, distances, house sizes, the tax system to name a few). That doesn't make Australia better than the UK, but it does make it notably different. 

You can never have everything, so it's a case of settling for a solution which BEST fits my needs. On balance, for me, that will entail retiring in Australia and making the most of travel overseas. 

[Toots]

13 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

While more than happy to provide a spot of light entertainment to assist your day, I suspect my level of looseness in comparison  would make you appear positively robotic. As for Australians , I don't detect a lot of difference. But just to point I don't have a total inability to connect to human nature, have never encountered Canadians or many Americans to my recall where similar comments would be warranted. Brits a mixed bag. But of heavens sake, it was my take on being with a ship load of older Aussies which led to thoughts on 'fitting in' with like minded people in the future. Not a question of intellectual superiority, just a preference for interesting people with a few worldly views over and above their grand kids, their home, gossip and daily ship schedule something your last sentence that would in all fairness be better directed at those being referred to rather than myself. 

I've never been on a cruise - never appealed to me really but yes, the above in red would certainly put me right off.  I suppose they are easily avoided though on those large cruise ships.

[friedparsley]

A question for Blue Flu.   Were you once an employee of Alfred Holt & Company aka Blue Funnel Line, commonly referred to as Blue Flu. ?

Also known as the China Boats.

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, Toots said:

I've just looked for the Amis book I mentioned.  It's called Old Devils.  Very funny but as I said a bit uncomfortable in parts.  It's set in Wales and about a group of retired couples who seem to spend most of their time in the pub drinking.  They all knew each other at university. The fun and games start when two of their old friends arrive from England.  Rivalries and romance take off big time.

It's a drizzly day here so might put my feet up later and re-read it.

Then do try Ending Up, think you'll enjoy it. Amis at his caustic best some may say. I'll seek out Old Devils in the meantime. I recall the name though. It does sound we enjoy similar reading matter.....A drizzly Devonport day, sounds the ideal conditions to reengage with the likes of Kinsley Amis. 

[Blue Flu]

6 minutes ago, friedparsley said:

A question for Blue Flu.   Were you once an employee of Alfred Holt & Company aka Blue Funnel Line, commonly referred to as Blue Flu. ?

Also known as the China Boats.

Now that came out of the blue in a matter of speaking. Have you been doing your homework or a former mariner? But to answer your question the company was on its last legs in my time at sea but grew up around the earlier wonderful (in appearance ) Blue Flu cargo ships with Greek mythological names. One of the most recognizable shipping companies in the world due to infrastructure. (they could be spotted many miles away at sea) But well done few if any would have spotted the meaning these days. 

[Blue Flu]

48 minutes ago, Toots said:

I've never been on a cruise - never appealed to me really but yes, the above in red would certainly put me right off.  I suppose they are easily avoided though on those large cruise ships.

Well being a former mariner in my early years,  I have an attachment to the sea and ships and life at sea not to mention the ports/countries would be highly unlikely see without being on a ship. 

We've done several cruises over a time frame but usually combine them with land travel. For example Venice to Cape town stopping at West African ports en route. From Cape Town, one of personal world favourite cities, drove across South Africa through Namibia into Botswana and game parks etc. The great thing being these trips feel like aa few travels wrapped in one.

A cruise alone may indeed not necessary cut the mustard.  But my preference is for the smaller variety rather than the gin palaces. 

As for the passengers, usually fine if a mixed international group. A certain type of person who in all likelihood would not have voyaged during The Golden Age of cruising in days long gone by, now are rather prominent. One example being two women one a Brit other an Aussie having a dust up in the laundry over use of a dryer. both were hauled before the captain , but sadly walking the plank option in the end didn't turn out to be an option.   

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The question is, were those Canadians and Americans on their home soil, or did you meet them in Australia/France/some other country?

Ramot mentions her experience in the UK, of people who have never traveled much other than their two weeks' holiday a year, and whose lives revolve around village life and their family.  That's what I encountered too, and when I think about it, it would describe most of the society I grew up in.  In fact, when I grew up in Scotland, no one even went to Europe for their holidays.   I think we have all heard descriptions of American society where people's knowledge of the world outside their borders is even more limited.  

If you are meeting British or Canadian or American people who are living in another country, or even visiting on a prolonged trip, then they are not those people -- they are the exception. 

Those Americans and Canadians had flown from home state/province to join all vessels. I have never cruised in American/Canadian waters. These Americans come in all sizes. Quite a few ex veteran.  Some indeed had further to the right views that I would agree with , but never recall anything beyond agreeing to disagree. Most had conversation on a range of topics, but most had voyaged before , some many times. It appears    some are perpetual cruisers, booking their next cruise while aboard. It wouldn't suit me, but at a certain age I can understand the attractiveness of cruising. Some even seem to use cruising as a nursing home alternative. 

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, DanO said:

There is no doubt for me. Travel absolutely does broaden the mind!

I love the UK, but on my last visit I found it very much more parochial than I remembered it. The life experience of living overseas and especially somewhere as multi-cultural as Melbourne really does stretch your horizons. I know when relatives visited us here, they were constantly surprised by things which we take for granted here (car prices, petrol prices, range of fresh foods, coffee quality, blue skies, distances, house sizes, the tax system to name a few). That doesn't make Australia better than the UK, but it does make it notably different. 

You can never have everything, so it's a case of settling for a solution which BEST fits my needs. On balance, for me, that will entail retiring in Australia and making the most of travel overseas. 

It all depends just where in UK you live. I had a number of years over the decades living in areas of London like W2. One could hear several languages (at least) walking from top to bottom of Queensway the main drag. Nowhere in Australia, to my experience  comes close to that experience. Loved the area. The vibe. The cosmopolitan since in every ' pore' ouzing from such a location. 

Most of UK is not like that. A reason I'm not there now. (in part) I agree a lot is provincial and stupefying in its parochial sense of place. Not my England, nor ever would be.   

[Parley]

I suspect Blu Flu knows he isn't going anywhere. If his wife says no then that is end of story.

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

I suspect Blu Flu knows he isn't going anywhere. If his wife says no then that is end of story.

My partner being non Australian does infer somewhere. But the where in place remains complicated, yes in part for reasons given. She equally spots the difficulty growing old with the herd here. Not necessary a fan of UK though.  

[Robert Dyson]

On 05/11/2021 at 17:44, friedparsley said:

I have a Scottish accent. Maybe harder to lose than some English accents.

much harder to get rid of the trace and it depends on the ear as well.  I met a lady serving in a shop once and asked her when she came here from Scotland.  She looked at me with horror and said 1955, and that she didn't have a Scottish accent as far as she knew. Clear as a bell to me.

My FIL is Scottish and he has a Scottish accent though has lived in England for 60 years.  When he goes back to Glasgow they think he's English, they cannot pick up any Glaswegian at all.

[Dusty Plains]

3 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

much harder to get rid of the trace and it depends on the ear as well.  I met a lady serving in a shop once and asked her when she came here from Scotland.  She looked at me with horror and said 1955, and that she didn't have a Scottish accent as far as she knew. Clear as a bell to me.

My FIL is Scottish and he has a Scottish accent though has lived in England for 60 years.  When he goes back to Glasgow they think he's English, they cannot pick up any Glaswegian at all.

Are Scottish accents diverse? Is it only the Glaswegian accent that differs from the rest of the Scottish population, or are there variations according to geography?   

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Dusty Plains said:

Are Scottish accents diverse? Is it only the Glaswegian accent that differs from the rest of the Scottish population, or are there variations according to geography?   

Yes they are.

My Mum was from the far north west of Scotland.  She moved to the south of Scotland with her family in her teens and she always spoke with a lovely soft accent  -  she spoke fluent Gaelic as a child.  Very different from the south of Scotland.  The Edinburgh accent is different to the Glasgow accent.  I have a friend here in Tassie who is originally from Orkney and her accent is also different.

[Marisawright]

4 minutes ago, Toots said:

Yes they are.

My Mum was from the far north west of Scotland.  She moved to the south of Scotland with her family in her teens and she always spoke with a lovely soft accent  -  she spoke fluent Gaelic as a child.  Very different from the south of Scotland.  The Edinburgh accent is different to the Glasgow accent.  I have a friend here in Tassie who is originally from Orkney and her accent is also different.

 I notice that Scots who live north of Dundee are inclined to lose their accent quite readily when living abroad, whereas those Dundee and south are less likely to.  Only a generalisation of course.

[Dusty Plains]

We have a Glaswegian woman as part our extended family here, who is dearly loved, and has been in Australia for 30 years or so but still has what we thought was a wonderful Scottish accent. But when her mother comes over for Christmas and they get chatting to each other, well its a whole new dialect. We have to get an interpreter in.

Sometimes I can pick a Melbournian as Melbournians have some quirky pronunciations of certain words. For instance the word "beer" in Melbournian is often pronounced as "bee-ah". Would you like a BEE-AH"?  Consequently, we get gems like: " I spent my caree=ah as an enginee-ah"  Was that South or North Korea? 

And finally Rudolph the Red Nose Reindee-ah. 

[Toots]

50 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

We have a Glaswegian woman as part our extended family here, who is dearly loved, and has been in Australia for 30 years or so but still has what we thought was a wonderful Scottish accent. But when her mother comes over for Christmas and they get chatting to each other, well its a whole new dialect. We have to get an interpreter in.

Sometimes I can pick a Melbournian as Melbournians have some quirky pronunciations of certain words. For instance the word "beer" in Melbournian is often pronounced as "bee-ah". Would you like a BEE-AH"?  Consequently, we get gems like: " I spent my caree=ah as an enginee-ah"  Was that South or North Korea? 

And finally Rudolph the Red Nose Reindee-ah. 

Whenever I'm back in Scotland I can lapse into the dialect.  We weren't allowed to speak it at home when growing up but spoke it all the time when playing with our wee pals.

[TBD]

3 hours ago, Toots said:

The Edinburgh accent is different to the Glasgow accent.

While Edinburgh and Glasgow are different, there isn't even a single "Edinburgh accent" or a single "Glasgow accent". Scottish cities have very distinct accents within them - a Morningside accent ('wealthy Edinburgh') is profoundly different to the accent (and vocabulary) of somewhere like Pilton or Craigmillar ('working class' areas of Edinburgh). It's the same in Glasgow between Bearsden or Milngavie on the one hand, and Maryhill or Govan, on the other; even in a smaller city like Dundee, between 'the Ferry' and the Hilltown.  However, it isn't just one "wealthy" Scots accent and one "working class" Scots accent - a Milngavie accent is different to a Morningside accent (both affluent, Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively).