Marisawright Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cunnerz said: I have had my first AZ jab and will have my second one in about five weeks but will also be tested before I go and after I land in the UK. New Zealand sounds like an outside chance, do you know anyone who has done it that way MacGyver? It was @rtritudr that was suggesting New Zealand, but that's not going to help you at all. Your problem is getting permission to LEAVE Australia. There's nothing to stop you coming back except for availability of flights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Cunnerz said: I have had my first AZ jab and will have my second one in about five weeks but will also be tested before I go and after I land in the UK. New Zealand sounds like an outside chance, do you know anyone who has done it that way MacGyver? I really think you need to look at whether you can get an exemption first. As everyone on here has said, the chances of that is very low. There are thousands in your position that haven’t seen frail, ageing and unwell parents. It’s terrible but they can’t give out passes to them all. If you somehow manage to get one then work out how you can manage the trip. It’s good you’ve had one jab but just be aware that the most protection is from being double jabbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tulip1 said: I really think you need to look at whether you can get an exemption first. As everyone on here has said, the chances of that is very low. There are thousands in your position that haven’t seen frail, ageing and unwell parents. It’s terrible but they can’t give out passes to them all. If you somehow manage to get one then work out how you can manage the trip. It’s good you’ve had one jab but just be aware that the most protection is from being double jabbed. Not wishing to start an argument, but WHY can't they let those who want to leave, just leave? Why are they keeping people here, when those people want to go - in many cases permanently - and are willing to accept any risks in the country to which they are headed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Nemesis said: Not wishing to start an argument, but WHY can't they let those who want to leave, just leave? Why are they keeping people here, when those people want to go - in many cases permanently - and are willing to accept any risks in the country to which they are headed/ Anyone wanting to leave permanently can do so. Are you suggesting open borders and just anyone can start holidaying/popping to see family etc? They appear to have put the brakes on people just coming and going just because people want to. I’m all for just opening it up as that means I can book my holiday there but that’s some way off. Those there that go on holiday come back a few weeks later. That’s no different to anyone flying in and that’s a big no no right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunnerz Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 A friend of mine has just had his travel exemption rejected to visit his elderly parents in Dublin and suggested I use the word critical in my application. My first priority is to get my exemption otherwise everything else is a waste of time. Good question Nemesis, I don't know why they are stopping people leaving if they don't intend to come back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) ‘I don't know why they are stopping people leaving if they don't intend to come back’ They aren’t. If people are moving overseas they can do so. They need to have evidence to show that it is a permanent move which is understandable as otherwise some may tell porkies. Edited June 21, 2021 by Tulip1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Cunnerz said: I have had my first AZ jab and will have my second one in about five weeks but will also be tested before I go and after I land in the UK. New Zealand sounds like an outside chance, do you know anyone who has done it that way MacGyver? I’m sorry I don’t know anyone that’s travelled overseas at all since the border restrictions were introduced. I think enough has been said about whether you should go or not, we all have our opinions on that but at the end of the day only you can know if you need to go. That’s not to say I would go if I was in your shoes, just that the only person who can decide is you. If you absolutely need to be there, you should go fully prepared to get stuck for months as it’s quite likely that will happen. Then consider what you would regret more in 5 years - not seeing your mum, or the consequences of getting stuck in the Uk for months (eg losing job). If you still want to go, perhaps consider how you could frame your exemption request to maximise the chances of success as they are unlikely to grant one for a short visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Nemesis said: Not wishing to start an argument, but WHY can't they let those who want to leave, just leave? Why are they keeping people here, when those people want to go - in many cases permanently - and are willing to accept any risks in the country to which they are headed/ They are not stopping anyone who wants to leave permanently. All they have to do is PROVE they are leaving permanently and they get an exemption. Someone who is leaving temporarily will, by definition, need to come back. When they do, they will need to take up a seat on a plane, and a place in quarantine, and both are in very scarce supply. Plus, of course, they may bring Covid back with them. Edited June 21, 2021 by Marisawright 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 43 minutes ago, Cunnerz said: A friend of mine has just had his travel exemption rejected to visit his elderly parents in Dublin and suggested I use the word critical in my application. My first priority is to get my exemption otherwise everything else is a waste of time. Good question Nemesis, I don't know why they are stopping people leaving if they don't intend to come back again. @Cunnerz, this is what we've been trying to tell you. Your chances of getting the exemption are, sadly, very slim. You will need to pull out all the stops in your application - and remember, people are making up all kinds of stories to get exemptions. They won't believe you if you don't provide proof (after all, why should they?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Your chances are slim unless your mum is on an end of life pathway and her doctors will attest to that - there have been several on here and other forums who have been granted exemptions for that. Just being frail elderly isn’t going to cut it. At least you are secure in the knowledge that you have a sibling close to her so if the worst happens someone will step up and do all that is necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Tulip1 said: Anyone wanting to leave permanently can do so. Are you suggesting open borders and just anyone can start holidaying/popping to see family etc? They appear to have put the brakes on people just coming and going just because people want to. I’m all for just opening it up as that means I can book my holiday there but that’s some way off. Those there that go on holiday come back a few weeks later. That’s no different to anyone flying in and that’s a big no no right now. No I am suggesting that people should have the right to leave if they wish/need to. Yes you can leave permanently, IF you can get an exemption. Spend some time on some of the facebook groups where people are trying to leave - there are some permanent departures that have been applied for 5 -10- even 15 times, its not as simple as saying "i want to leave for good" you have to supply shedloads of proof giving up jobs, selling houses, taking kids out of school - all of which has to be done before you apply. Going for less than 3 months is pretty much impossible - 3 months unpaid leave is not easy for the majority of us. I am not talking about holidays, I am talking about divided families. I'm talking about parents who cannot see their kids because the child lives with the other parent, I'm talking about people who cannot see their dying parents because they were refused permission, and now they cannot even go and bury them. I am talking about couples who are resigned to permanent separation or even divorce because there is n o change of being able to spend time together for the next few years. Here is one example - person who has lost both parents, in the US, has been refused permission to go 4 times - twice for end-of-life, twice for funeral/burial. They then applied because they are the only relative, the house has to be cleared, they want to bring some of the family possessions back eventually, and in the meantime they need to sort out what to get rid of and sell the house. Refused again. Now the house has been ransacked.Can they go and see what is left? No. Refusal number 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Nemesis said: No I am suggesting that people should have the right to leave if they wish/need to. Yes you can leave permanently, IF you can get an exemption. Spend some time on some of the facebook groups where people are trying to leave - there are some permanent departures that have been applied for 5 -10- even 15 times, its not as simple as saying "i want to leave for good" you have to supply shedloads of proof giving up jobs, selling houses, taking kids out of school - all of which has to be done before you apply. Going for less than 3 months is pretty much impossible - 3 months unpaid leave is not easy for the majority of us. I am not talking about holidays, I am talking about divided families. I'm talking about parents who cannot see their kids because the child lives with the other parent, I'm talking about people who cannot see their dying parents because they were refused permission, and now they cannot even go and bury them. I am talking about couples who are resigned to permanent separation or even divorce because there is n o change of being able to spend time together for the next few years. Here is one example - person who has lost both parents, in the US, has been refused permission to go 4 times - twice for end-of-life, twice for funeral/burial. They then applied because they are the only relative, the house has to be cleared, they want to bring some of the family possessions back eventually, and in the meantime they need to sort out what to get rid of and sell the house. Refused again. Now the house has been ransacked.Can they go and see what is left? No. Refusal number 6. But if people have the right to leave if they want/wish to then that will be hundreds of thousands possibly leaving (and I use that word leaving lightly as most will be going to visit family and returning some weeks later) that’s no different than an Australian popping to Bali for a holiday in turns of risk/hotel quarantine etc. They leave, they return. I know it’s hard, believe me I haven’t seen my kids for over three years now. None of my kids could come to see my mum on end of life care or attend her funeral. It sucks but you have millions of migrants there and many would chose to ‘leave’ for a few weeks and return. Sadly they cannot be allowed to just leave if they wish. That’s no different to me coming there. One flight in/one flight out. I wish it was different but right now it’s not. I’m shocked that those choosing to leave permanently are getting refused. I guess we don’t know what proof they are submitting. If someone shows sold house/end of tenancy, notice given at work to resign, enrolling kids into new school/emails detailing all that sort of thing and a bunch of other things I’d be shocked if that was refused. If their permanent move is genuine they shouldn’t have any problems supplying such documents. I’d think their local MP would get involved if their case was clear cut, makes you wonder how tight their cases were. I expect there has been many cases of people moving away only to turn up again three weeks later. Sadly many don’t tell the truth, perhaps those people have made it worse and harder for the genuine leavers. Edited June 21, 2021 by Tulip1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 11 hours ago, Nemesis said: No I am suggesting that people should have the right to leave if they wish/need to. Yes you can leave permanently, IF you can get an exemption. Spend some time on some of the facebook groups where people are trying to leave - there are some permanent departures that have been applied for 5 -10- even 15 times, its not as simple as saying "i want to leave for good" you have to supply shedloads of proof giving up jobs, selling houses, taking kids out of school - all of which has to be done before you apply. Going for less than 3 months is pretty much impossible - 3 months unpaid leave is not easy for the majority of us. I am not talking about holidays, I am talking about divided families. I'm talking about parents who cannot see their kids because the child lives with the other parent, I'm talking about people who cannot see their dying parents because they were refused permission, and now they cannot even go and bury them. I am talking about couples who are resigned to permanent separation or even divorce because there is n o change of being able to spend time together for the next few years. Here is one example - person who has lost both parents, in the US, has been refused permission to go 4 times - twice for end-of-life, twice for funeral/burial. They then applied because they are the only relative, the house has to be cleared, they want to bring some of the family possessions back eventually, and in the meantime they need to sort out what to get rid of and sell the house. Refused again. Now the house has been ransacked.Can they go and see what is left? No. Refusal number 6. I wonder how many will leave Australia permanently when the borders eventually reopen. I'm not one of them (I'm very happy at the other side of the world from family), but I think a lot of people migrated on the basis that they could fly 'home' every year to maintain a connection with family and the last 18 months has led to many re-evaluating their long-term plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nemesis said: Yes you can leave permanently, IF you can get an exemption. Spend some time on some of the facebook groups where people are trying to leave - there are some permanent departures that have been applied for 5 -10- even 15 times, its not as simple as saying "i want to leave for good" you have to supply shedloads of proof giving up jobs, selling houses, taking kids out of school - all of which has to be done before you apply. Of course you must. If proof wasn't required, there would be hordes of people pretending to leave permanently with every intention of returning. I'm afraid it is the old story of the shysters spoiling it for honest people. It seems odd to me that PomsinOz members who want to leave permanently have all been able to do so, if it is so difficult. The question is, what are you suggesting as a solution? Just let everyone go, then come back and quarantine at home (which we know doesn't work because again, the dishonest will flout all the rules), and let the Delta variant loose across a largely unvaccinated population? There will be deaths and long Covid sufferers as a result - how many would you find acceptable? Perhaps we should call for volunteers - are you putting your hand up? Edited June 22, 2021 by Marisawright 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, MacGyver said: I wonder how many will leave Australia permanently when the borders eventually reopen. I'm not one of them (I'm very happy at the other side of the world from family), but I think a lot of people migrated on the basis that they could fly 'home' every year to maintain a connection with family and the last 18 months has led to many re-evaluating their long-term plans. It will be interesting to see. The same is apparently happening all over the world, with many Australians and New Zealanders deciding to return (which is one reason why the number of "stranded Aussies" keeps growing). Since being on PomsinOz, it has surprised me how many people do migrate with that expectation nowadays. When I migrated 30-odd years ago from Scotland, it was accepted that you were leaving forever and you might get back to see your family every 5 years if you were lucky. It was just too expensive to fly back and forth. Many families had Australian relatives they hadn't seen for 10 or 20 years. I was unusual in making the effort to visit every 2 years. Edited June 22, 2021 by Marisawright 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welljock Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 21/06/2021 at 12:11, rtritudr said: In case they refuse your exemption request, and provided that you are OK with the potential penalties (I don't really see them enforcing this though, it's just too politically unpalatable) upon re-entry into Australia, there is always the backdoor route through New Zealand. 23 hours ago, Marisawright said: Isn't that back-to-front? The exemption is to get permission to LEAVE Australia. As an Australian citizen, no one can stop the OP returning. I'm sure you don't need the exemption to travel to NZ, you can then leave from there to get to the UK, it was well documented that this was a backdoor way out of Australia. The government then introduced potential fines for those returning having got round applying for the exemption by going via NZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 21/06/2021 at 12:32, Marisawright said: Isn't that back-to-front? The exemption is to get permission to LEAVE Australia. As an Australian citizen, no one can stop the OP returning. https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-ve-escaped-aussies-use-kiwi-bubble-as-back-door-to-defy-travel-ban-20210422-p57lne.html ‘I’ve escaped!’: Aussies use Kiwi bubble as back door to defy travel ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 18 hours ago, Cunnerz said: I have had my first AZ jab and will have my second one in about five weeks but will also be tested before I go and after I land in the UK. New Zealand sounds like an outside chance, do you know anyone who has done it that way MacGyver? Plenty of people have travelled out via NZ: https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-ve-escaped-aussies-use-kiwi-bubble-as-back-door-to-defy-travel-ban-20210422-p57lne.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 18 hours ago, Marisawright said: It was @rtritudr that was suggesting New Zealand, but that's not going to help you at all. Your problem is getting permission to LEAVE Australia. There's nothing to stop you coming back except for availability of flights. You do not need an exemption to fly to NZ, and NZ does not stop anyone from leaving. However, you do need to be prepared for potential penalties upon re-entry into Australia if you take the NZ route as Greg Hunt has signed that into law when the travel bubble started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, rtritudr said: You do not need an exemption to fly to NZ, and NZ does not stop anyone from leaving. However, you do need to be prepared for potential penalties upon re-entry into Australia if you take the NZ route as Greg Hunt has signed that into law when the travel bubble started. Good to hear that penalties have been put in place. People should do the right thing and not leave unless they have an exemption. They know that by going via NZ they are not abiding by the rules. I hope they step up on the penalties for the safety of others and in fairness to all descent people who are abiding by the rules despite a longing to visit family. Edited June 22, 2021 by Tulip1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 You absolutely CAN fly from the UK via Singapore, effective about a month ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 19 hours ago, Tulip1 said: Good to hear that penalties have been put in place. People should do the right thing and not leave unless they have an exemption. They know that by going via NZ they are not abiding by the rules. I hope they step up on the penalties for the safety of others and in fairness to all descent people who are abiding by the rules despite a longing to visit family. So far nobody has been subject to the penalties and there is debate on whether the penalty is constitutional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 hours ago, rtritudr said: So far nobody has been subject to the penalties and there is debate on whether the penalty is constitutional. Well if they’re not giving anyone a penalty they’re essentially giving the green light to be able to do it. In that case why not, it’s Australia’s fault it’s happening then as they’re allowing it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibba Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) On 21/06/2021 at 22:11, Marisawright said: They are not stopping anyone who wants to leave permanently. All they have to do is PROVE they are leaving permanently and they get an exemption. Someone who is leaving temporarily will, by definition, need to come back. When they do, they will need to take up a seat on a plane, and a place in quarantine, and both are in very scarce supply. Plus, of course, they may bring Covid back with them. Sorry but this just isn't true. I have a friend who was able to fly back to Finland with an exemption (his third attempt and only after his mother had died) and both flights were virtually empty in both economy and business class. He was only offered business class and it cost him a small fortune. It's quite disturbing that people seem so willing to accept, what actually seems to verge in the realms of civil rights abuse - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-08/australians-trying-to-leave-could-make-legal-challenge-covid/100273572 - quote taken from <this article: Quote "This change is a very dramatic change in a democratic framework. "One of the questions is when you're restricting people leaving the country, does that necessarily fit within that quarantine power?" The biosecurity act also requires the minister responsible is "satisfied … that the requirement is appropriate and adapted to achieve the purpose for which it is to be determined" and "that the requirement is no more restrictive or intrusive than is required in the circumstances." It's this wording in the act that has the University of Canberra Professor questioning whether the government is on solid ground with the ban. "I just find it hard to comprehend how a blanket ban on people leaving is the least restrictive way of managing this health crisis," she said. Surely there needs to be a more compassionate and less concrete way of managing this? Surely if you can prove that you are now fully vaccinated and provide say 2-3 negative tests in the lead up to both your outbound and return flights, this should allow for at least some freedom of movement to visit loved ones? The risk of spreading Covid by a fully vaccinated person who has tested negative and by common sense would understand the need to wear a mask and take precautions is quite low. Compare that to the far more risky and damaging impact these types of hard line and concrete restrictions are having on the population's mental health and wellbeing. A vaccination / negative test 'passport' system needs to be rolled out IMO. And a final thought, does it not seem odd to people that the only two countries in the world that require such a strictly enforced exemption to leave the country right now are Australia and North Korea? Just saying. Edited July 13, 2021 by Jibba 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstWorldProblems Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 A gilded cage is still a cage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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