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How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

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3 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Funny but I disagree with both of you. I don't see WA as being isolated and limited with nothing beyond City, Freo, Busselton, Mandurah,  Swan Valley.

I'm happy usually wherever I am. My Hants village had 3 pubs, 2 takeaways and 1 cafe. Surry Hills has - exaggerating  - 100 with another 100 in the adjoining suburbs  - City, E Sydney, Darlo,  Paddo,  Newtown,  Glen.

On my two stints in Perth I "sampled" three suburbs  -  South Perth,  Applecross and Northbridge.  I mean i stayed there and in each one I found a local pub and local cafe which I could walk to. I did check out some other burbs - Subiaco, Ardross, and the casino if I needed to be out after midnight ie to watch Tottenham. 

In Sydney you can drive north,  south or west. In Perth you can drive north, south or east. Perhaps there are more towns in NSW but I went to plenty of places in WA on my road trips  - Margaret River,  The Wheatbelt and down to Albany. If I CRAVED going on trips every weekend I could have gone to plenty  - Northam, York (stayed there 2 nights) Beverley,  Bridgetown and a hundred places ending in "Up."

Since when does a town, place or suburb become boring after you've been once anyway?

 

Isolation comes not only in the geographic sense but the mental sense as well. While Perth and WA are certainly remote from elsewhere that is only one aspect to consider. With flights that isolation can be conquered in a matter of hours. It's more than that. It's the insularity that plagues this state. For example working in a specific field everybody more or less knowns everybody else. Or at least know of them. Crossing the wrong person like a CEO can spell end of career . Word gets out in such a small place. I find often see people know/knew at various popular localities. There just isn't enough places to escape recognition to go. I find that claustrophobic to an extent. 

We lack the vibe of Sydney. Just as Sydney doesn't have the vibe of London or another Alpha City. Obviously this matters not to a lot of people. Perth can of course be a perfectly delightful city to those preferring a slow paced , clean sort of place, even though a dark side exists in its underbelly. It is reasonably well hidden and I know can come as a shock to those impacted by that at some stage. Here I mean the scourge of drugs which is everywhere and increasingly an occupation of choice. (making or cooking) There must be a reason Perth was the capital of meth (ice) consumption in the world on a population basis. Adelaide has stolen that title (how dare they) but believe me it is everywhere and my area and street reflect this. 

As commented by others, you do possess rather 'a knack' apparently in finding contentment where you wash up . Okay, like me apart from deep, dark suburbia. We share some similarities as I always have attempted to live in inner city localities regardless of country with a buzz and vibe and no need for a car with convenience at hand . Preferably not family  over representation but definitely not student either. It has generally worked, although Perth not ideal, even inner city  for fans of cosmopolitan living it is doable. (well minus the drug making)

There are not that many places to go weekends in WA. The South after being covered and lived in does get a tad the same. I like Albany but really how many times can one endure it? I try and leave it for a few years apart. Not a fan of Mandurah by any means. Far too much social issues around drugs. Bunbury as well. (know that city rather well )All those blink and you miss them country towns you mention are good as a stopover for a meal or coffee but really to stay? Northam? Not a place to linger. Quite bogan and poorly located for dreadful heat in summer. York? Nice for a day trip. but probably once every three to five years. 

There is far more on the East Coast. WA has its own appeal but does come with limitations on so many fronts. 

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36 minutes ago, ramot said:

Nowadays I have no desire to move house hopefully ever again, but when we were moving around and starting to feel settled, my husband would say, there is an opportunity come up to move, and I would say go for it. Goodness knows why, perhaps I was just wired that way, as unused to living anywhere for long then??? 

I think we change as we get older.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I know what you mean but as I liked Surfers  - stayed eight.months  -  I'd like to try it again, and I like the warmer weather in winter there. 

Of course that question, "What's wrong with staying exactly where you are and enjoying it?" is what we all ask ourselves when we migrate?!!?

I suppose things occur, often unplanned, which have lead to some of my moves. I'd never have gone back to England to live had I not lost my job in Sydney and my parents were still in Hants. 

Same last year, I would not have joined my brother in Surfers had I not feared another lockdown and going through it on my own.

Perhaps Covid-19 is making me unsettled too. It seemed somehow "safer" there!

But I believe you own the property there that you lived in? ( or did I get that wrong?) Hence you have options to return at will. Eight months is quite sometime to get a bearing  on the feasibility of moving there or remaining in Surry Hills. Perhaps short six month rents could do the trick? Then at least it would be available for you to pass Sydney winters away?

It is odd at times how things fall into place. I guess if your brother was in Kangaroo Island you may well have moved there?  

Edited by Blue Flu

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2 hours ago, Bulya said:

Can you go to a football grand final in WA, AFL or NRL?  No.  Do most of the touring bands or comedians or whatever go to WA?  No.  Do the boat racing series or other go to WA?  No. Do any of the big horse shows have a final in WA?  No. It’s limited, very limited…

I'm not sure if I follow you. Perth ALWAYS gets a Test Cricket match. You have two AFL teams and and a brand new 60 000 capacity stadium so you can see all the other AFL teams. If one of the WA teams makes the Finals then that often means some of the Finals games are played there. Perth also has an A League team so you get to see all the other Australian and NZ teams. Perth does not have an NRL team but you sometimes get one of the State of Origin games (which are of course traditionally held in Sydney or Brisbane. 

The AFL grand final is always held in Melbourne at the MCG and the NRL grand final is always held in Sydney, bar exceptional circumstances.  You may as well complain about having to go to Wembley if your non-London team gets to the FA or League Cup Final. In any case, just as with the AFL and NRL, it's part of the tradition to go to the "home" or "HQ" of the game. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the big world surfing contests was just held in WA at Margaret River. 

I'm not into motor racing or boating or horse racing but  sure WA hosts its own events. 

And the top bands, performers, etc usually play a gig at the Perth Ent Centre. 

Perth has theatres and concert halls but Melbourne and Sydney naturally dominate the arts. So what. London does in the UK.

You have a huge casino in Perth, as good as the ones in Sydney   Melbourne,  Gold Coast. The beaches are the equal of other parts of Oz.

So, you can't watch NRL live in Perth and if you want to watch your fave AFL or NRL team  (which ones do you support?) you have to go to Melbourne or Sydney and if you want to see the big boating show, you also have to go to the Eastern States. 

That does not sound too onerous to me

 

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3 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

But I believe you own the property there that you lived in? ( or did I get that wrong?) Hence you have options to return at will. Eight months is quite sometime to get a bearing  on the feasibility of moving there or remaining in Surry Hills. Perhaps short six month rents could do the trick? Then at least it would be available for you to pass Sydney winters away?

It is odd at times how things fall into place. I guess if your brother was in Kangaroo Island you may well have moved there?  

Yes, had he moved anywhere in OZ last year I would have joined him. I'd been to Surfers for holidays but never thought of moving there. Once there I grew into liking it.

He just went to Adelaide on a road trip with my other brother and he was VERY impressed with Adelaide.  I think he appreciated the smaller scale of Adelaide,  which is what I like about Perth. He also said Adelaide was very lively. I imagine given that Adelaide is smaller than Perth then people who hate Perth would also hate Adelaide? I don't know. "Subjective" remember. 

Yes, I do own my unit in Sydney.  Last week I bumped into an RE agent who was showing a 2 bedroom unit above mine. He inspected my one bedroom place and later emailed me a report for both rental and purchase. 

I don't want to sell my unit but if I like SP enough to want to move I might rent it out. I've also made decision to sell the UK house. (Meant to reply to someone else who commented with some advice. Keep losing their post.)

My friend in Perth has been prodding me to go over there. I'm thinking Goldie for the winter, WA in spring for the wildflowers. Cold here in my flat though I've got shorts on and the window ajar but it's nice in the sun.

My brothers actually followed me to OZ back in 1979. Had I been in Perth (which I liked but couldn't get a job) we might all be there but I washed up in Sydney.

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11 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

 

And the top bands, performers, etc usually play a gig at the Perth Ent Centre. 

Perth has theatres and concert halls but Melbourne and Sydney naturally dominate the arts. So what. London does in the UK.

...

So, you can't watch NRL live in Perth and if you want to watch your fave AFL or NRL team  (which ones do you support?) you have to go to Melbourne or Sydney and if you want to see the big boating show, you also have to go to the Eastern States. 

That does not sound too onerous to me

 

Maybe, but ONLY the top (fashionable, popular) performers go to Perth.  It's not economical for most musicians, dance companies, shows to go to Perth because the cost of transporting their scenery, instruments etc is too high. 

So you're saying that if you're a keen fan of music, the arts, or sport, you should just spend several hundred dollars a month to fly back and forth to the Eastern States to see concerts and games and "that's not too onerous".   Air fares from Perth are some of the most expensive in the country, and the flight is long, so you'll need to pay for a night's hotel stay every time, too.  I'm glad you're so rich and have so much spare time that you can afford to do that several times a year!  

Why would anyone do that if they had the choice to move to where their interests are, instead?  They'd be a fool not to.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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9 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Maybe, but ONLY the top (fashionable, popular) performers go to Perth.  It's not economical for most musicians, dance companies, shows to go to Perth because the cost of transporting their scenery, instruments etc is too high. 

So you're saying that if you're a keen fan of music, the arts, or sport, you should just spend several hundred dollars a month to fly back and forth to the Eastern States to see concerts and games and "that's not too onerous".   Air fares from Perth are some of the most expensive in the country, and the flight is long, so you'll need to pay for a night's hotel stay every time, too.  I'm glad you're so rich and have so much spare time that you can afford to do that several times a year!  

Why would anyone do that if they had the choice to move to where their interests are, instead?  They'd be a fool not to.

Actually he or she was complaining about the top performers NOT playing in Perth. I just looked up the Perth Arena website and all the top stars have played or are playing there. Rolling Stones, Arctic Monkeys,  Bruce Springsteen,  Cher, Slash, etc etc plus the top Aussie acts. 

Maybe the big acts might only play one or two shows in Perth but more in Melbourne or Sydney but to say the big acts don't play Perth is BS.

And of course I forgot the basketball teams, not my sport, but again Perth I think has a national team,  just like, cricket, soccer, AFL. Tough if you go for non-WA team but if you follow Eagles or Dockers you watch the home games live and the away games on TV, though plenty of fans are keen enough to go to the away games as well. I've got mate who's been to Melbourne,  Adelaide and Perth recently to watch AFL.

As for the big shows in Melbourne and Sydney, well,  that's just the way it is. What do you do if you live in the West Coast of the US and you want to see shows on Broadway. 

I doubt if I'll ever see Spurs in London but I make do by watching every game live on TV. It is what it is.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I think we change as we get older.

Yes changed when I hit 60 I think something to do with retirement, although I did think we would only stay in Australia for about three years then. 18 years later and I’m staying!!! Just been for a walk at the beach, glorious weather, sparkling sea, love it here.

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After 15 years I have come to a few conclusions in this regard - 1) never returning to the UK, been once for 6 months and hated it, 2)  I am mostly an Aussie now but it's ridiculously expensive to do anything, 3) I am retiring to Thailand !

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8 hours ago, Bulya said:

Can you go to a football grand final in WA, AFL or NRL?  No.  Do most of the touring bands or comedians or whatever go to WA?  No.  Do the boat racing series or other go to WA?  No. Do any of the big horse shows have a final in WA?  No. It’s limited, very limited…

Whereas that all sounds brilliant 😂

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5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Maybe, but ONLY the top (fashionable, popular) performers go to Perth.  It's not economical for most musicians, dance companies, shows to go to Perth because the cost of transporting their scenery, instruments etc is too high. 

So you're saying that if you're a keen fan of music, the arts, or sport, you should just spend several hundred dollars a month to fly back and forth to the Eastern States to see concerts and games and "that's not too onerous".   Air fares from Perth are some of the most expensive in the country, and the flight is long, so you'll need to pay for a night's hotel stay every time, too.  I'm glad you're so rich and have so much spare time that you can afford to do that several times a year!  

Why would anyone do that if they had the choice to move to where their interests are, instead?  They'd be a fool not to.

Actually we do get most of the performing acts that come to OZ these days. There was a time when we didn't but only a very few seem to miss out on Perth these days. They are hardly cheap though but they may well be the case in other Australian/NZ cities as well. 

Obviously the arts are bigger in Melbourne and Sydney, but to be expected with population numbers far exceeding Perth. But in my view Perth doesn't come over as having a very creative vibe. I think it is the nature of the place built around the resource industry and still pretty much working class in manner. The alternative scene isn't very visible. As a result young talented or wanting a career in The Arts, have often moved to Melbourne. I doubt this has changed over the past few years. I have met a young fellow that came the other way, saying the Art's scene  there was pompous and Perth was fresh and encouraging of young artists . Another moved over got a commission to do sculptures here and found it progressive the way he was encouraged. Still after eighteen months he had left and retuned to Melbourne. I didn't find out the reason, but know his partner did not like Perth at all. 

My observations are Perth is fine if liking sport.  It hasn't arrived yet at the creative sense fully. We really need to diversify more to create an interesting city. Some recent waterside and the Yagan Square Development, which was supposed to rival Federation Square in Melbourne, have fallen well short of the mark. With the latter attracting unsavory elements and have witnessed drug business myself being undertaken there. 

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2 hours ago, Graham Fletcher said:

After 15 years I have come to a few conclusions in this regard - 1) never returning to the UK, been once for 6 months and hated it, 2)  I am mostly an Aussie now but it's ridiculously expensive to do anything, 3) I am retiring to Thailand !

I know many that have done just that or moved elsewhere in order to secure a better more affordable retirement. I mean who wouldn't. Great affordable medical care. Able to eat out every night if so desired. Warm weather. Thing with Thailand is though they have changed the visa conditions. Look very well into that as doing visa trips every few months would get very tiresome. 

I have looked three times at Malta over the past nine years but while like the island have concluded against that. Thailand probably wouldn't be in my top six , but understand the attraction (minus visa issues) Very interested in Sarawak after a long visit there three years ago and still thing Penang a goer. (Langkawi could be combined) I had a thing for Laos a few years back after meeting a few Brit's and Aussies and French that had settled there. Cambodia was a consideration as well....some say Vietnam. Don't know enough about it. Sri Lanka looks good. I wouldn't have any interest in Bali but know some who settled there very happily. Philippines is another but never been. 

I think UK for retirement the way things have gone, would be suggestive that without a lot of money  there are plenty of better, far better places elsewhere. Still NHS and free bus passes are attractive but doesn't quite win out over the other countries mentioned. 

 

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6 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Yes, had he moved anywhere in OZ last year I would have joined him. I'd been to Surfers for holidays but never thought of moving there. Once there I grew into liking it.

He just went to Adelaide on a road trip with my other brother and he was VERY impressed with Adelaide.  I think he appreciated the smaller scale of Adelaide,  which is what I like about Perth. He also said Adelaide was very lively. I imagine given that Adelaide is smaller than Perth then people who hate Perth would also hate Adelaide? I don't know. "Subjective" remember. 

Yes, I do own my unit in Sydney.  Last week I bumped into an RE agent who was showing a 2 bedroom unit above mine. He inspected my one bedroom place and later emailed me a report for both rental and purchase. 

I don't want to sell my unit but if I like SP enough to want to move I might rent it out. I've also made decision to sell the UK house. (Meant to reply to someone else who commented with some advice. Keep losing their post.)

My friend in Perth has been prodding me to go over there. I'm thinking Goldie for the winter, WA in spring for the wildflowers. Cold here in my flat though I've got shorts on and the window ajar but it's nice in the sun.

My brothers actually followed me to OZ back in 1979. Had I been in Perth (which I liked but couldn't get a job) we might all be there but I washed up in Sydney.

You certainly appear a close family. I don't wish to pry but perhaps loneliness is a feature in your decision making and place to live. It gets far harder in the age to make meaningful contacts. No shame there. But you have the economic freedom to have a choice and not be dependent on a pension. In actual fact you could live most anywhere in the world. Other places are more likely not as difficult to meet people. Perhaps a partner if so inclined. Up to you of course but very liberating in the age not to have money concerns. 

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On 11/05/2021 at 15:07, s713 said:

Hillarys was one of the (many) other places that used to do this to me. I had to say to the wife, I can't physically go to Hillarys anymore. Apart from the beach, it was the only thing near us and, after about 6 or 7 visits, I was done.

Do you feel the same about places you visit in the UK? If not why not?

For the life of me I can't think of any place as nice as Hillary's within driving distance of Manchester.

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On 11/05/2021 at 17:35, Toots said:

There are no aquariums or a zoo here in our area but the children seem to be happily occupied.  Bike tracks for miles, basketball court, tennis courts, football (soccer fields), hockey centre, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, trees to climb and for the unsporty - well I guess they spend a lot of time with their devices - same as kids in most other countries.  As you say - just use your imagination  ...............  sadly lacking in a lot of people who just want entertainment laid on for them or else they get   .............  guess what   ..................  bored.

Perth has all that and an aquarium and a zoo. Probably been to the zoo and aquarium twicw with the kids in 30 years. Too many other things to do.

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On 11/05/2021 at 18:29, Blue Flu said:

I agree on most evert aspect you write. Joondalup was a great opportunity to redefine Perth Metro to which was largely a failure. It improved somewhat later, as defects were realized. But still a place I would hardly venture. I used to go to the Old Baily boozer years ago, when feeling in need of a reminder of British culture. Grew out of that though. 

 

Major problem with Joondalup is it's full of people from the UK at night, who like the same things they did in the UK, football, getting pissed and causing trouble.

My eldest who's thirty now went there in his 20's for a change a couple of times. He couldn't understand the vibe. He said it's full of poms wanting a fight, mostly about football.

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On 12/05/2021 at 15:44, HappyHeart said:

What crazy golf?? Lol. I obviously don't go enough. The Great Escape closed in 2016, was it there? 

There is a small water fun park there in Summer months. 

I don't know the ice cream place you mention either? Ben and Jerry's for me. 

You're right it's not a place you go to every week. I like Hillarys as an occasional thing. The water is safe and brilliant for little ones. Good fishing spots. The rellies always love it. Sitting in the Sun with an ice cream. 

I find it harder and harder to get a decent meal and coffee there so much so that we might just go to Dome as a 'safe' bet. Coffee and cake and a scenic stroll. There's been a lot of venue closures and too many chain restaurants in there. The local.shack (terrible generic frozen food offerings) It's beautiful at sunset and after dark for a summer stroll and you can picnic or bbq. We used to like Hippo Creek but that's closed down. The Jarrah bar and 3 Sheets are always packed at the weekend till late. Had a nice tapas lunch there actually last year. (Jarrah) The chippy isn't bad. Purple goat cafe does nice home made cakes. 

We might go 2 or 3 x a year. 

The Breakwater is good, has a happy hour every night, $6 guiness, went with some friends on a night out to Hillaries a few weeks back. Started in the little Irish bar and ended up at the Breakwater. It was packed and a real party atmosphere. Got a table on the deck outside, lovely evening.

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11 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

From what I recall of Hilarys it's a mini Darling Harbour or, now, Barangaroo and I rarely go to either of them.  Go once and it's enough whether there's 5 restaurants and bars or 50.

Actually, I should qualify that. If I lived easy walking distance from a place like Hilarys I'd go there regularly but I LOATHE having to drive anywhere, joining the other grockles fighting for parking places. 

You wouldn't have to fight for parking at Hillaries, car parks massive and free. 

Me and the wife have biked down a few times and had a few drinks. Bit dodgy on the bikepath coming back home though, specially with no lights.😁

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On 13/05/2021 at 19:43, Tulip1 said:

Yes it was part of the great escape near the big water slides. Great golf, was there years and years, dozens probably. The ice cream place was called cold rock and that was also there for years and still there when I last visited three years ago (or sure we went there on my last visit) 

My eldests first job was at the great escape. He worked there for a few years, starting when he was at school. Had some great kids parties there for the youngest. 

A lot of my eldests friends worked there too, they were all in surf clubs and had their bronze medallion and lifesaving training. They had great fun, as well as getting paid.

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10 hours ago, Bulya said:

Can you go to a football grand final in WA, AFL or NRL?  No.  Do most of the touring bands or comedians or whatever go to WA?  No.  Do the boat racing series or other go to WA?  No. Do any of the big horse shows have a final in WA?  No. It’s limited, very limited…

Optus stadium, where the Eagles and freo play is magnificent. 

I think you are absolutely wrong about touring bands not coming to Perth. I've seen loads since we've been here, we have an excellent entertainment centre to see the big bands in too. As well as a lot of outdoor concerts and a very good blues club. 

Boat racing is massive here with lots of rowing events on the river. UWA has boats galore. Not massively into that scene myself but I know it exists. 

We can see finals on TV , like most people do, Eagles have won it a few times haven't they.

Horses you can keep, zero interest. My son has been to the very acceptable Perth cup though and thought it was fine.

I'm more into surf ski paddling, surf club stuff, biking, triathlon, adventure racing, swimming so for me where we live is ideal.

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1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

Actually we do get most of the performing acts that come to OZ these days. There was a time when we didn't but only a very few seem to miss out on Perth these days. They are hardly cheap though but they may well be the case in other Australian/NZ cities as well. 

Obviously the arts are bigger in Melbourne and Sydney, but to be expected with population numbers far exceeding Perth. But in my view Perth doesn't come over as having a very creative vibe. I think it is the nature of the place built around the resource industry and still pretty much working class in manner. The alternative scene isn't very visible. As a result young talented or wanting a career in The Arts, have often moved to Melbourne. I doubt this has changed over the past few years. I have met a young fellow that came the other way, saying the Art's scene  there was pompous and Perth was fresh and encouraging of young artists . Another moved over got a commission to do sculptures here and found it progressive the way he was encouraged. Still after eighteen months he had left and retuned to Melbourne. I didn't find out the reason, but know his partner did not like Perth at all. 

My observations are Perth is fine if liking sport.  It hasn't arrived yet at the creative sense fully. We really need to diversify more to create an interesting city. Some recent waterside and the Yagan Square Development, which was supposed to rival Federation Square in Melbourne, have fallen well short of the mark. With the latter attracting unsavory elements and have witnessed drug business myself being undertaken there. 

Yep, Yagan square is crap. They've done a better job with the waterside part of Perth though. No need to go near Yagan Square if you don't want. 

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2 hours ago, s713 said:

Whereas that all sounds brilliant 😂

At least you recognise it as such.  Well done..

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5 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Optus stadium, where the Eagles and freo play is magnificent. 

I think you are absolutely wrong about touring bands not coming to Perth. I've seen loads since we've been here, we have an excellent entertainment centre to see the big bands in too. As well as a lot of outdoor concerts and a very good blues club. 

Boat racing is massive here with lots of rowing events on the river. UWA has boats galore. Not massively into that scene myself but I know it exists. 

We can see finals on TV , like most people do, Eagles have won it a few times haven't they.

Horses you can keep, zero interest. My son has been to the very acceptable Perth cup though and thought it was fine.

I'm more into surf ski paddling, surf club stuff, biking, triathlon, adventure racing, swimming so for me where we live is ideal.

Speed boats, not tow boats.  And I’m talking lube, not on TV.  Perth is isolated, there’s simply no getting around it.  

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1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

Major problem with Joondalup is it's full of people from the UK at night, who like the same things they did in the UK, football, getting pissed and causing trouble.

My eldest who's thirty now went there in his 20's for a change a couple of times. He couldn't understand the vibe. He said it's full of poms wanting a fight, mostly about football.

It goes way beyond an abundance of UK migrants. It was designed poorly , with attempts at rectification late in the day. I used to drink on occasions at The Old Bailey. I know the problem. Young Aussies don't know about the tribal culture that exists in England. It may be about the football shirt it may be about nothing. Not necessary fighting , but intimidating none the less in Aussie eyes. I recall an Aussie pub that once existed in London's Earl Court. Locals thought an Englishman ventured inside at own risk. A bit rough and tumble indeed. Different degrees of rough where cultural norms relating to differences clearly on display.

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49 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Yep, Yagan square is crap. They've done a better job with the waterside part of Perth though. No need to go near Yagan Square if you don't want. 

Well wait for a bus outside the bus station quite regular. It's not the point not going near the Square. It was marked down with great attributes finally connecting The CBD with Northbridge. It was supposed to rival Federation Square in Melbourne. Like so many of the best intentions, never reached anywhere close to its intent. Waterside area better, obviously, but hardly a must visit and below expectations. It should have been the centre point of Perth for locals and tourist. It's good, but should be brillant. 

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