Changes to pathway to Citizenship

[bwatt99]

39 minutes ago, Keep me in oz said:

I just spoke to immigration to and asked what would be happening with my application she said that it will be only hold until July/August until the legislation has been discussed more! 

 

She mentioned that that people who aren't eligible for the new criteria MAY get a refund and said they have been advised that people who happen to become eligible for a three month period after the change the department would hold their fee meaning they wouldn't have to pay again. 

I told her I wouldn't be eligible under new legislation for another 3 years and she said its very likely that I would have to wait that length of time and meet the new criteria.

everyone we all seem to speak to there has something slightly different to say but it's looking more and more likely that those who applied after 20th April are in for a huge wait, some changes and some diasappoinemnt! 

Keep positive people!

What do you mean 3 month period is this still under old or new rules.

So what does this mean for wife who was eligible 1st june under old rules and in july will have 3 yrs pr? But new rules its july next year.

[Keep me in oz]

8 minutes ago, bwatt99 said:

What do you mean 3 month period is this still under old or new rules.

So what does this mean for wife who was eligible 1st june under old rules and in july will have 3 yrs pr? But new rules its july next year.

Sorry if you become eligible for the new rules within three months of them changing the law then they will roll your money over to your new application.

it guess it depends on whether you have decided to apply or not! If you have and they do change the law you may lose the money, or you may not! 

[Parley]

25 minutes ago, bwatt99 said:

So what does this mean for wife who was eligible 1st june under old rules and in july will have 3 yrs pr? But new rules its july next year.

Obviously the new rules are effective April 20th, so I think you know the answer.

[bwatt99]

12 minutes ago, Keep me in oz said:

Sorry if you become eligible for the new rules within three months of them changing the law then they will roll your money over to your new application.

it guess it depends on whether you have decided to apply or not! If you have and they do change the law you may lose the money, or you may not! 

His is all ballocks to be honest australia dont half do things the hard way wife is as well switch off and wait till next year in july when she will have her 4 yrs pr. As its all if,buts,maybe,not sure and just does your head in.

[Keep me in oz]

13 minutes ago, bwatt99 said:

His is all ballocks to be honest australia dont half do things the hard way wife is as well switch off and wait till next year in july when she will have her 4 yrs pr. As its all if,buts,maybe,not sure and just does your head in.

I couldn't agree more!! I feel for you and your wife! It's so uncertain and annoying!

[wombatinabox]

2 hours ago, seraphim said:

Confirmed. Just been on the phone to immi, and received their official "unofficial' can't say but.  They were very honest. Regardless of application (i.e we are 4 years PR and British citizens very straightforward etc) nothing is going to happen to ANY post 20th application until new laws are discussed, drafted, new tests pledges and exams made and tested, so for anyone 21st and later , look at 2 years not 8-10 months, just for the government to pull it's proverbial finger out.  

 

Can we get a slow hand clap for Turnbull and his knee jerk panic about being ousted as leader!

 

Thanks for confirming, I've been saying this for a while. All apps are frozen after April 20. We are looking at 2 year wait.

Again the back dating is the main issue, Which is why if you havent already make a submission asap this is the last week and protest the back dating specifically. We need to get that thrown out 

[Parley]

Don't worry it won't be backdated before April 20th.

That was the announcement date I believe. So applications lodged before then will be fine.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Parley

[bwatt99]

1 hour ago, wombatinabox said:

Thanks for confirming, I've been saying this for a while. All apps are frozen after April 20. We are looking at 2 year wait.

Again the back dating is the main issue, Which is why if you havent already make a submission asap this is the last week and protest the back dating specifically. We need to get that thrown out 

Lol where do you get 2 yrs wait from?

[peterthepom]

Hey Folks, first post newbie here I don't know how I've managed without you.

We were granted PR on 8th May 2017 after a 5 month application process and were planning to make citizenship application after 12 months, does anyone know if this is still possible or do we now have to wait four years?

Thanks Peter 

Edited May 23, 2017 by peterthepom
email reply

[whtzau]

7 hours ago, dredg97 said:

Please read this legal case:

Raveendran and Minister for Immigration and Border Protection ( Citizenship ) [2017] AATA 653 (5 May 2017)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2017/653.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=citizenship

Considerations section, n.42-44, number 44 in particular

42. For the sake of completeness, I note that on 20 April 2017, that is, on the day of the hearing, a joint media statement was published on the website of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. The media statement was by the Hon. Peter Dutton MP Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull, Prime Minister, titled “Strengthening the Integrity of Australian  Citizenship ”.
43. The joint media statement provided in part as follows:

The Turnbull Government will strengthen Australian  citizenship  by putting Australian values at the heart of  citizenship  processes and requirements.
Our reforms will ensure applicants are competent in English, have been a permanent resident for at least four years and commit to embracing Australian values.

44. In this decision, I take no account of the pending changes to the law governing Australian  Citizenship . These announced alterations have not been legislated into law, nor has the date of their operation been announced.

 

 

"ON 20/04/2017" when they announced this new rule, wow could respondent  - DIBP say this young lady can still apply citizenship in next 9 months ?

This young lady can not afford her University tuition, and it did not count on significant hardship ?

Also, refer to Emeritus Professor Ron McCallum of USYD law school (http://sydney.edu.au/law/about/people/profiles/ron.mccallum.php)

these announced alterations have NOT been legislated into law, not has the date of their operation been announced.

HOW CAN DIBP PEND ALL THE APPLICATION LODGED ON OR AFTER 20/04/2017 ?

 

 

44. In this decision, I take no account of the pending changes to the law governing Australian  Citizenship . These announced alterations have not been legislated into law, nor has the date of their operation been announced.

 

 

 

 

[wombatinabox]

Pretty sure the government has no power to freeze citizenship applications for no reason. The current scenario is purely political. Back dating this whole process and then keeping people in limbo for 2 years is not within the powers of a minister. You are talking about law abiding peoples lives put on hold.

100% it can get thrown out by a judge if it's raised to high court and applications can resume until new laws are actually drafted. 

Question is who is willing to put this to courts, unlike USA we don't have groups here to protect and fight for immigrants. 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by wombatinabox

[bella1458]

1 hour ago, peterthepom said:

Hey Folks, first post newbie here I don't know how I've managed without you.

We were granted PR on 8th May 2017 after a 5 month application process and were planning to make citizenship application after 12 months, does anyone know if this is still possible or do we now have to wait four years?

Thanks Peter 

The new rules apply from 20.04.2017 so yes you'll have to wait 4 years from the date your PR was approved before applying for citizenship. Unless the proposed changes to citizenship criteria don't get passed and become law, which lets be honest looks a highly unlikely outcome.

[Keep me in oz]

25 minutes ago, wombatinabox said:

Pretty sure the government has no power to freeze citizenship applications for no reason. The current scenario is purely political. Back dating this whole process and then keeping people in limbo for 2 years is not within the powers of a minister. You are talking about law abiding peoples lives put on hold.

100% it can get thrown out by a judge if it's raised to high court and applications can resume until new laws are actually drafted. 

Question is who is willing to put this to courts, unlike USA we don't have groups here to protect and fight for immigrants. 

 

 

Yea I hope that they can't, but at the end of the day they can almost do what they want, all they have to do is blame a change in reaources or shift some priorities and it's all justifiable again!

I would been keen to see what happens with applications like mine now, if they decline them, it gives people the option for a review at AAT! That would be interesting!

[wombatinabox]

2 minutes ago, Keep me in oz said:

Yea I hope that they can't, but at the end of the day they can almost do what they want, all they have to do is blame a change in reaources or shift some priorities and it's all justifiable again!

I would been keen to see what happens with applications like mine now, if they decline them, it gives people the option for a review at AAT! That would be interesting!

Just needs a case at the high court and this freeze and back dating will be thrown out by a judge.

[Keep me in oz]

Just now, wombatinabox said:

Just needs a case at the high court and this freeze and back dating will be thrown out by a judge.

It's unlikely anyone would take it that far though id assume!

[whtzau]

37 minutes ago, wombatinabox said:

Just needs a case at the high court and this freeze and back dating will be thrown out by a judge.

but if DIBP pend all the application and neither approve nor reject, just keep saying "the case is still processing" how can we applicants lodge our application to AATA for review ?

[dredg97]

Let's be honest, I do not agree with few aspects of the new proposal, but I understand and totally accept that the Government has the power to strengthen the process and introduce a new law. An Act can also be retrospective, even if a transitional period, as occurred in the past when the Citizenship Act 2007 was introduced, would probably be a more appropriate approach.

Having said that, what is truly unacceptable is how applications after April 20th are currently managed.

It is clearly stated that the applicable legislation CURRENTLY IN FORCE is the Citizenship Act 2007, see below:

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2007A00020

as such, the Citizenship Act 2007 should still be applied in the interim, until the new Citizenship Act 2017 (or 2018) is enacted, no matter if it will be retroactive or not.

 

 

[Amy Zhang]

If we accept the retrospective issue, it means that accept everything. The department has the excuse not to deal with the applications on or after 20th, April. They will say they need to redo the applications anyway if the new legislation will be approved and enacted from 20th, April, why bother to do them right now? They use this excuse to freeze our applications. This is the thing I reckon very stupid. Why the prime minister made the announcement so quickly and all the detailed information is not ready. That's ridiculous.  The staff in such department may just sit on their hand for another 6 months.

[whtzau]

2 hours ago, dredg97 said:

Let's be honest, I do not agree with few aspects of the new proposal, but I understand and totally accept that the Government has the power to strengthen the process and introduce a new law. An Act can also be retrospective, even if a transitional period, as occurred in the past when the Citizenship Act 2007 was introduced, would probably be a more appropriate approach.

Having said that, what is truly unacceptable is how applications after April 20th are currently managed.

It is clearly stated that the applicable legislation CURRENTLY IN FORCE is the Citizenship Act 2007, see below:

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2007A00020

as such, the Citizenship Act 2007 should still be applied in the interim, until the new Citizenship Act 2017 (or 2018) is enacted, no matter if it will be retroactive or not.

it means how DIBP managed application lodged on or after 20/04/2017 is against the  law  - Citizenship Act 2007 !!

 

 

[Amy Zhang]

8 minutes ago, whtzau said:

it means how DIBP managed application lodged on or after 20/04/2017 is against the  law  - Citizenship Act 2007 !!

 

It's true. However, the staff in DIBP assume that they will have no law to follow at this stage for the applications lodged on or after 20th, April. The only thing they can do is waiting, although it shows the Citizenship Act 2007 is CURRENTLY IN FORCE. How stupid it is! They also tried to convince us to wait for at least 6 months, since on the DIBP website, it says all the detailed information will be released at the end of this year.

"The Government will introduce new citizenship related legislation into the

Parliament, informed by responses to this paper, by the end of 2017."

[whtzau]

16 minutes ago, Amy Zhang said:

It's true. However, the staff in DIBP assume that they will have no law to follow at this stage for the applications lodged on or after 20th, April. The only thing they can do is waiting, although it shows the Citizenship Act 2007 is CURRENTLY IN FORCE. How stupid it is! They also tried to convince us to wait for at least 6 months, since on the DIBP website, it says all the detailed information will be released at the end of this year.

"The Government will introduce new citizenship related legislation into the

Parliament, informed by responses to this paper, by the end of 2017."

THEN HOW WILL THEY MANAGE APPLICATIONS AFTER 20/04/2017 BEFORE THE END OF 2017 ?

 

[wombatinabox]

25 minutes ago, Amy Zhang said:

It's true. However, the staff in DIBP assume that they will have no law to follow at this stage for the applications lodged on or after 20th, April. The only thing they can do is waiting, although it shows the Citizenship Act 2007 is CURRENTLY IN FORCE. How stupid it is! They also tried to convince us to wait for at least 6 months, since on the DIBP website, it says all the detailed information will be released at the end of this year.

"The Government will introduce new citizenship related legislation into the

Parliament, informed by responses to this paper, by the end of 2017."

Which is why if this is raised to high court a judge will throw the freeze right away. Hopefully migration agents raise this who are in the best position to do this. Might be worth for us to get in touch with some of them. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by wombatinabox

[Amy Zhang]

28 minutes ago, whtzau said:

THEN HOW WILL THEY MANAGE APPLICATIONS AFTER 20/04/2017 BEFORE THE END OF 2017 ?

 

Nothing! Very disappointing. I have submitted my view on the new proposal. We still have one week to express our point view and email to citizenship.submissions@border.gov.au

[jolie2015]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-22/citizenship,-visa-grant-waiting-times-may-increase/8548012?pfmredir=sm

• 355 staff have gone from department's visa and citizenship section since the beginning of the financial year
• Growth in visa applications has bigger impact on waiting times than staff cuts, Mr Pezzullo says

[Amy Zhang]

25 minutes ago, wombatinabox said:

Which is why if this is raised to high court a judge will throw the freeze right away. Hopefully migration agents raise this who are in the best position to do this. Might be worth for us to get in touch with some of them. 

That's really a good idea. Any one here has some resources of migration agents?